[Kaizen]

^luv that video. watched it many times.

[Doctore]

If your joints hurt while dancing, you're either moving too hard (need better quality movements) or you need to lift some weights and get in better shape. Dancing for me (the physical aspect) is active recovery from actual training. Alone it is not enough to get you into shape. The scene is full of fat / skinny fat / soft people who think that, and would down an extra pint of beer plus a bowl of chips after an hour or two of dancing because they've "earned" it.

One thing that definitely helps dance pickups is to be muscular and lean. Give them more excuses to touch you.

Quote:

Learning to dance once you get older is a waste, IMO.

Not to mention your joints past 50+ aren't going to be up for crazy dance moves.

I'd think of it as learning a language - in this case a physical one. Some dance scenes cater better for older crowd: e.g ballroom, tango, even some salsa schools. You just need to be fluent enough to interact with your targets. As for the physical issues (joint pains etc.): use it or lose it. Older people need to move around more, they will have better quality of life. Plus it's a much better night out if you're older.

Crazy dance moves aren't suitable for pickups anyway. You get sweaty, you'd be puffing and there is no spare mental capacity for seductive interaction while you have to focus on getting the moves right. Besides, the very top older dancers I know all go with subtle body movements. They do simple moves incredibly well, and the women love it. It's what I mostly do these days, although I have enough energy and athleticism for stupid stuff when I feel like it.

Quote:

Like anything you want to learn, look for those teachers that are examples of what you want to become. For instance, in business you would emulate successful people. If you chose a male salsa instructor, try to seek out one that the ladies tell you (and you observe) they like to dance with because of how he dances. It doesn't have to be about knowing a lot of fancy moves either.

When I was starting out, I'd find male instructors who have a similar build to me and copy them.

JayJuanGee Wrote:

My bangs did not go up with my improving my dance, and instead, largely, I have become more focused on dance for the sake of dance, which screwed up some of my banging focused activities.

In essence, currently, i am considering ways to revert back... maybe i should just go back to acting like i do not know how to dance.. and then go from there... banging hit ratio may improve.

Some guys who go to the salsa dance clubs when they are learning are not dancing but instead are gaming, and possibly those non-dancing guys are the ones banging more of the girls... while the male dancers have no further energy after dancing several hours

It's a common trap. Don't let yourself get carried away by the energy and passion of dancing.

What you want to do is to simply be more selective, especially now that you've been dancing for 10+ years and presumably are a top dancer in the scene. Only dance with good dancers or cute girls, with the occasional strategic charity ones. Only dance to good songs. Or go more selective: only dance to live bands at venues serving alcohol where there's good sexy vibe. Go up to cute girls and instead of doing the expected "would you like to dance?", just talk to them, and only give them the gift of dancing with you when they've earned it. Turn dances down, say you're feeling sore from whatever (I lift and play sports a lot so it's always a valid one, although I don't actually need any rest), and are there to socialize and catch up with friends (yeah right ) and only do the occasional dances. It will drive your value way up AND give you more time to run Game. You'll actually enjoy your dancing more too.

I haven't been to Sth America (going to soon) but you'll be a rock star in the SEA dance scene if you dance well and are foreign. I've got girls who tried to hunt me down for marriage lol

[JayJuanGee]

@Doctore:

Good points regarding strategizing dance energy. I may try some of that, and lessen the amount of time that I am dancing.. gotta begin to think more strategically... .

Regarding joints; however, there could be causes other than proper movement and proper exercise - even though those aspects could be factors affecting joint pain. There is also diet, age and genetics and sometimes personal variables, like past injuries or overuse in other activities.

So far, I have been pretty lucky about my joints and feet. Some people suggest glucosamine as a supplement for joints as well. I do supplement with it, and I do not know if it helps. Also, i have read that good saturated fat in your diet is good for joints too. Even though I do like to eat saturated fats for health reasons (in the past couple of years, I follow kind of a Atkins type diet - though others may have their own dietary preferences and philosophies, but I personally believe eating grains, sugars and other carbs could be problematic for joint health). In the end, i am not sure how well my diet has contributed to the health of my joints.... but in the end, as you say, we may not need too much actual dance, as long as we have an excuse to be on the dance scene...

BTW, which countries in SEA have you employed your dance skills, specifically latin dances?

[Doctore]

Yeah I'm on a paleo low carbs diet myself. Cutting grains and sugar out has made a huge impact on my joint health and recovery from training.

SEA: Vietnam and Malaysia, mostly Vietnam.

[Samseau]

My joints hurt because I lift and dance. The more I use my joints, the more they hurt. I think only swimming prevent wear and tear.

[Doctore]

You need more maintenance work on your body. I'm a competitive powerlifter and have to keep my recovery tightly on schedule. I do daily mobility drills (during breaks at work), yoga and swimming.

I recommend the book Super Joints by Pavel Tsatouline if you struggle with joint issues. Daily morning drills (take about 15 mins for me) will make your joints feel a million bucks. I fixed my dad's long term knee issue with that (plus kettlebell lifting).

[JayJuanGee]

Last night, I went salsa dancing at a dance studio in the greater LA area, and I believe all the other Alpha males we watching the televised fight.. because the ratio of women to men was really great – like three girls for every guy. Anyhow, I love when the ratios are like that because generally, the girls become more docile and even nice.

Now, I must point out that generally the salsa venues that I attend have mixed races (and maybe a little higher percentage of Asians than other venues in the LA area), and that is what I prefer.

Below, I must point out an exception to last night’s girls being nice and docile.

I had just finished dancing, and I was walking towards the beverages section, and this mid-40s white woman with big breasts and curves, maybe a 6.5 but would have likely been a 7.5 or so in her youth was giving me eye contact. Usually, at dance venues when the girl gives me that much eye contact, I will ask her to dance, unless I am heading for another target or the bathroom which I had no target at the time and I thought what the heck? I asked her to dance.

Definitely, she was a good dancer; and I judge female dancers about how easily and smoothly they follow my moves, and she was fairly advanced in that regard. She continued to smile and I continued to smile. There was a lot of room on the floor and I executed a dance move that utilizes quite a bit of dance floor space, and:

she said, “we’ve got a wild one?” I thought that the comment could be taken either as a positive or a negative.

I said: “just trying to take advantage of the floor space.”

She said: “that’s not necessary.” I thought that certainly seems to be second-guessing my discretion as the leader to decide what dance moves I wanted to lead, and if she did not like what I was leading, then she should just keep her thoughts to herself because certainly, the comment was not necessary or even productive in any meaningful interaction. Additionally, the girl should know that she has the power to decline to dance with the guy in the future, so usually, there should be no need to tell the guy that, at the moment of the dance, that she is not pleased with him.

As I continued to dance with her, she continued to smile and to largely follow my moves, and I began to think maybe she is not so bad because at least she is still following my dance moves, which are not always easy for the girl to follow, especially when I do not take an mercy on the girl, which at that point I had little mercy for her.

I then executed a dance move in which I put her into a hammerlock and then led her to back to back (with arms extended out) and then turned her out in an inside turn (which is a right turn). After that move, she made a little grimace, which was an ambiguous communication. Accordingly, I attempted again to make a light comment and to recover the situation, and:

I said: “at least I did not pull out your arm sockets.” And I made a little chuckle. I make these kinds of exaggerated statements sometimes especially when I am very comfortable that I executed the move well and that there should NOT have been even minimal pain or suffering from the girl.

She said: “you did, a little bit.” I thought that is bullshit.. .I did not..
I continued to dance and looked at her like what? And she repeated, “ow, you did” while we continued to dance.

I said: “oh” without further comment or expression, and I thought o.k. let’s just finish this song, so I can release her to her own devices, because she is surely trouble and not worth trying to drag me into any of her negative energy.

Also, I was thinking that if she is feeling so entitled in this atmosphere of guy scarcity, just imagine how much of a bitch she would be in the event that the ratios were reversed. I figure that if I see her again on the dance scene that I just need to stay clear and don’t give her any pleasure from my continued company.

I’m not sure whether there is a lesson learned here or whether her interaction was a form of shit test. Nonetheless, I connected the totality of her comments with a sense of her feeling entitled and that she was acting as if she was an 8, when she was at best a 6.5 and in that environment of plenty of girls, she was overly compensating by employing her bitch shield.

[Samseau]

If there were that many girls you really should have been able to pull one outta there, did you? Don't worry about the bitches.

[jariel]

I think dudes are taking their nights out dancing a little too seriously.

Every chick isn't going to connect with you on the floor, regardless of her skill level.

If I'm really not feeling the dance for any reason, I will stop in the middle of it, say "thank you", and move on.

If you're going to meetup type events/dance socials, I would make pick up the last thing on my mind. Most of these girls go to these events and they will literally dance with every guy there, which says to me, it's not about meeting someone to hook up with, especially that night.

For that, you're better off going to traditional dance clubs, but the number of girls you'll find at those that can not only dance, but also share your level of passion for it is damn near next to nil. I would say there, make it less about the dancing, especially since most chicks only give guys they actually find attractive the time of the day.

At the end of the day, all I care about is whether or not I'm having fun. If you take something like dance, something you've probably invested time and money on to learn, and turn it into being about getting ass, you're going to be disappointed more often than not.

[pbw]

The salsa scene in Toronto is absolutely shit. The women are just beyond crap and play head games beyond the norm.

[JayJuanGee]

(09-15-2013 06:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

If there were that many girls you really should have been able to pull one outta there, did you?

Hehehehe,,, I did not pull any girls out of there, and usually, the best i could hope for out of a place like that would be to get phone numbers and setting up dates for later in the week or something like that. Several of the girls in attendance last night were regulars, who I would not have wanted to pull, and there were probably only a few that I would have been interested in pulling... and usually, i do not try to get number on the first dance.. but maybe on the second time that i dance with them... in the case of last night, my target girls left before I got back to a second dances. Maybe I played those circumstances wrong or badly and should have tried to get numbers sooner, who knows? I use my judgement at the time about what to do and what to say, and I am constantly thinking about ways to improve these things, including , ways to make better transitions in getting more numbers that could result in later bangs.

(09-15-2013 06:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Don't worry about the bitches.

Don't get me wrong. I was not worried about the bitch being a bitch; nonetheless, i thought her interaction exemplified a certain persistence in being a bitch.... that in the end, did not bother me b/c there were so many other fishes in that particular sea last night. In fact, the bitch may have been trying to make a statement that she is gonna be a bitch, no matter what, even if the ratios were not in her favor? All the power to her, but she got crossed off of my dance list b/c of her behavior and attitude.

(09-15-2013 07:37 PM)jariel Wrote:  

I think dudes are taking their nights out dancing a little too seriously.

This dude in my earlier post was just writing about a dance-related experience, whether that is taking dance too seriously, i don't know. I certainly enjoy salsa dancing, and I think about my various dance experiences and the interactions that i have with women on the dance floor. Sometimes, those interactions cause me to ponder for a while, and other times, they are not a big deal b/c I am used to a variety of experiences. Actually, when I teach dancing, I will frequently tell stories about the various dance interactions that I have in order to illustrate various points and also to get a little comic relief about interactions that can happen. I don't necessarily need to share these interactions with the forum, but I thought that the dynamics of the communications with women on the salsa dance floor related to the topic of this thread - unless there would be a better thread to post it?

(09-15-2013 07:37 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Every chick isn't going to connect with you on the floor, regardless of her skill level.

It seems that we agree, here. I certainly would not expect every girl to connect with me on the dance floor, that's for sure. I've been dancing enough to know that. I've probably got well over 3,000 hours of salsa dancing time in the past 11 years, and likely a small percentage of that dance time is having a good connection with the girl.. I'm estimating, maybe less than 20% of the dance time?

(09-15-2013 07:37 PM)jariel Wrote:  

If I'm really not feeling the dance for any reason, I will stop in the middle of it, say "thank you", and move on.

Actually, I would estimate that i have abandoned the dance in the middle less than 10 times in my whole salsa dancing experiences.... It is not my style to walk off the floor in the middle of the dance.... my philosophy is to finish the song, even if we are not connecting b/c it is socially the most appropriate thing to do (call that beta, i don't think so it is called manners). and the situation would have to be pretty dire in order for me to play the abandon the bitch on the floor card.

(09-15-2013 07:37 PM)jariel Wrote:  

If you're going to meetup type events/dance socials, I would make pick up the last thing on my mind. Most of these girls go to these events and they will literally dance with every guy there, which says to me, it's not about meeting someone to hook up with, especially that night.

Jariel: We kind of agree here. However, pick-up is not the last thing on my mind, but I do not really expect to pick-up in most nights.

On the other hand, if some situations work out well in which I am able to potentially pick up, then I do not turn any blind eye to such pick up possibilities. In recent weeks, since joining this forum, i have been considering ways to facilitate the making of more favorable pick up circumstances within the salsa dance venue and in other venues, in spite of what you are saying about what appears to be general motivations of girls in salsa venues to dance (which I agree with you that tends to be an overall motivation of girls in such venues).. Nonetheless, there are frequently girls in attendance at these venues that are not there for dancing, but instead to meet guys.. and in that regard, frequently, there are potential targets and the crowd is mixed and varied depending on venue and even depending on the night out.

(09-15-2013 07:37 PM)jariel Wrote:  

For that, you're better off going to traditional dance clubs, but the number of girls you'll find at those that can not only dance, but also share your level of passion for it is damn near next to nil. I would say there, make it less about the dancing, especially since most chicks only
give guys they actually find attractive the time of the day.

I think you are spot-on, here, and generally, I do not go to clubby dance places, unless I bring a date or a dance partner b/c they are just not a scene that fits my style.

(09-15-2013 07:37 PM)jariel Wrote:  

At the end of the day, all I care about is whether or not I'm having fun. If you take something like dance, something you've probably invested time and money on to learn, and turn it into being about getting ass, you're going to be disappointed more often than not.

I think that mostly we agree here, and I am of a similar philosophy about having dance as a built in fun, even when I do not pick-up, frequently, I can still tell myself that I had fun if i was able to dance and meet a few girls (even if i did not get their numbers).

(09-15-2013 09:03 PM)pbw Wrote:  

The salsa scene in Toronto is absolutely shit. The women are just beyond crap and play head games beyond the norm.

Personally, i think that the prevalence of bad attitudes generally has a lot to do with ratios, and if you are getting bad ratios, then you are getting worse attitudes. I know that there are exceptions to every rule, but ratios can make a very big difference in attitudes. So, in Toronto, are the ratios bad, or not?

[aphelion]

(09-15-2013 04:44 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I said: “at least I did not pull out your arm sockets.”

I don't think I'd have said that. It's halfway admitting that you did something wrong. That's probably part of the reason she ratcheted up the bitchiness.

[JayJuanGee]

(09-15-2013 10:34 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 04:44 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I said: “at least I did not pull out your arm sockets.”

I don't think I'd have said that. It's halfway admitting that you did something wrong. That's probably part of the reason she ratcheted up the bitchiness.

You are correct, Aphelion. Even though I was exaggerating, she may have misunderstood... and began to believe she was licensed to pursue.... Sometimes these statements just go with whatever is at the tip of my tongue at the time, and meant to be fun...

[paninaro]

(09-15-2013 10:34 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 04:44 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

I said: “at least I did not pull out your arm sockets.”

I don't think I'd have said that. It's halfway admitting that you did something wrong. That's probably part of the reason she ratcheted up the bitchiness.

Agreed. It puts a not so pleasant visual in the person's mind.

But overall on the interaction, maybe the woman was just a bitch or alternatively that's how she reacts when she's intimidated (by your dancing skills).

[Samseau]

Quote:

Hehehehe,,, I did not pull any girls out of there, and usually, the best i could hope for out of a place like that would be to get phone numbers and setting up dates for later in the week or something like that. Several of the girls in attendance last night were regulars, who I would not have wanted to pull, and there were probably only a few that I would have been interested in pulling... and usually, i do not try to get number on the first dance.. but maybe on the second time that i dance with them... in the case of last night, my target girls left before I got back to a second dances. Maybe I played those circumstances wrong or badly and should have tried to get numbers sooner, who knows? I use my judgement at the time about what to do and what to say, and I am constantly thinking about ways to improve these things, including , ways to make better transitions in getting more numbers that could result in later bangs.

If you do what I say you will get more bangs. STOP going for numbers, just pull the girl out of the venue using the method's I've already described in this thread.

[Wayout]

Salsa dancing scene where I am ( Southwest of the US) is just pissing me off : A few hotter girls, regardless of their dancing skills, getting asked to dance every dance! Old, young and everything in between guys are going for young, hot girls! Now, older women 40+ are freaking asking young guys to dance! No one wants to dance with their own age anymore - every one wants young and good looking!
When I got into dancing years ago I have never imagined I would have to compete with 60 year old dudes for young freshman girls! They are actively hitting on girls without any results. I can't even have a short conversation with a chick without some grandpa trying to take her away from me.
I have also never imagined to be asked to dance by 60 year old women with arthritis! They smell like death for God's sake! You know what's crazy - many young guys don't say no and dance with those old bags! Now I see "old bag's" standards are going up and they in turn don't care to dance with men their age.
The other thing I observe more and more : everyone is asking girls for their numbers. I see guys coming up with their phone to the same girl and get her number, she gives it to everyone.
I think I am done with salsa pickup and take my talents outside somewhere. Bitches are getting so much validation they keep coming back and they can't even dance good!

[Doctore]

If for some reason, you can't pull the girl out of that venue on the same night, try what I usually do. After sensing attraction and establishing some comfort, I'd tell her about a live music gig I'll be going to soon (which I do all the time). It will be at some nice bar / cafe / outdoor whatever. I tell her to join me if she's free. Usually I get a yes or maybe, at which point, I say here's my number if you get lost and write it down on a card or flyer (plenty at dance venues). I never ask for her digits on the night. For some reason, when I used to get their numbers, the flake rate was stupidly high, half of the time I'd get no response at all. Now they'd contact me most of the time and rarely flake. I'd go to the gig with zero thought or care about whether she shows up, because I'm going there for fun myself anyway and hit on whatever girls available at the venue. Since I did not ask for her number, I was not "responsible" for setting up the "date", so there is no pressure on me or her.

[JayJuanGee]

(09-15-2013 10:47 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you do what I say you will get more bangs. STOP going for numbers, just pull the girl out of the venue using the method's I've already described in this thread.

I think that we have different techniques, styles and goals, and different things will work for different people at different times in their lives. I don't feel that i am failing in what i am accomplishing, even though my bang rate is down from what it was years ago (which I find somewhat disappointing, yet I am not backing off my age explanation / excuse as being a factor)... anyhow, I am adapting what i do to the new circumstances, and I have had times, when I did not really feel that I could follow up with girls on the dance floor b/c of work pressures and other energy obligation pressures.

These days, i am budgeting a little more of my activities to make more free time for potential follow-ups, which phone numbers work good for me for that to be able to follow up at my own convenience.. and my own energy and on my own terms.

Definitely, i am hesitant to attempt to bounce a girl that i had just met at a salsa dance scene to another location or even within the venue, sometimes depending on the circumstances - b/c many times, I am not necessarily getting the vibe that I would like, unless I meet a girl that really would trigger that kind of bouncing for that night (which is not too common in the scenes that i am in). Don't get me wrong, if the circumstances are feeling right, I may try some bouncing techniques whether bouncing to a quiet location within the venue or bouncing to another venue or even an "after party" so to speak and in some circumstances trying to go for additional SNLs.

I do appreciate reading what other guys do - b/c sometimes, those descriptions of tactics could work for me in various venues and with certain girls - and some times guys mention strategies that I have used at various times in the past.

For example, recently, i have been texting this girl who I met on the salsa scene a few weeks ago and dropping a lot direct hints about what I would like to do with her, physically the next time we meet, and I got some of these ideas from reading various posts on the forum. She has been responding fairly positively to many of my escalation suggestions, so I am expecting a bang, at some point, even though we have not yet worked out the logistics for when this may be happening.. but I am feeling pretty good about some of the signs that I am getting and ... I am optimistic, comfortable, and going with the flow in a way that fits with my time and energy budgets.

[aphelion]

(09-16-2013 01:39 AM)Wayout Wrote:  

Salsa dancing scene where I am ( Southwest of the US) is just pissing me off : A few hotter girls, regardless of their dancing skills, getting asked to dance every dance! Old, young and everything in between guys are going for young, hot girls! Now, older women 40+ are freaking asking young guys to dance! No one wants to dance with their own age anymore - every one wants young and good looking!
When I got into dancing years ago I have never imagined I would have to compete with 60 year old dudes for young freshman girls! They are actively hitting on girls without any results. I can't even have a short conversation with a chick without some grandpa trying to take her away from me.
I have also never imagined to be asked to dance by 60 year old women with arthritis! They smell like death for God's sake! You know what's crazy - many young guys don't say no and dance with those old bags! Now I see "old bag's" standards are going up and they in turn don't care to dance with men their age.
The other thing I observe more and more : everyone is asking girls for their numbers. I see guys coming up with their phone to the same girl and get her number, she gives it to everyone.
I think I am done with salsa pickup and take my talents outside somewhere. Bitches are getting so much validation they keep coming back and they can't even dance good!

Wayout, the salsa scene is not at all like a regular club scene. If that's what you're going in there looking for, you're going to be miserably disappointed.

Salsa is a difficult dance that takes lots of skill and practice to achieve even a middling level of competency at. People go to classes for that shit. By the time you're a good dancer, you know everyone in the scene.

When you go to a salsa practica, it's basically thirty or fifty of the same large group of people and everyone knows each other. I have one well-connected friend on my facebook feed and we have over 100 common friends between us.

Just because it's a dancing environment doesn't mean that it's a hookup joint. Salsa events have more in common with chess club or a book club than with a regular dance club - yes, everyone is dancing, but they are there to be a part of a community first and foremost.

[JayJuanGee]

(09-16-2013 04:46 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

Wayout, the salsa scene is not at all like a regular club scene. If that's what you're going in there looking for, you're going to be miserably disappointed.

Salsa is a difficult dance that takes lots of skill and practice to achieve even a middling level of competency at. People go to classes for that shit. By the time you're a good dancer, you know everyone in the scene.

When you go to a salsa practica, it's basically thirty or fifty of the same large group of people and everyone knows each other. I have one well-connected friend on my facebook feed and we have over 100 common friends between us.

Just because it's a dancing environment doesn't mean that it's a hookup joint. Salsa events have more in common with chess club or a book club than with a regular dance club - yes, everyone is dancing, but they are there to be a part of a community first and foremost.

Aphelion: I mostly agree with the points that you are making in this post; however, I believe that there is going to be some geographical variation regarding how small the cliques are and depending upon how large is the salsa community.

For example in Los Angeles, the salsa scene is pretty large - yet even in this large and spread out salsa scene, there are going to be a lot of dancers that a guy sees over and over and at different venues. Nonetheless, there is also going to be some turn over (regulars and not regulars). I saw this girl last night that i kind of dated about 7 years ago at a dance venue. I went up to her just to say hi, and to see how she reacted in seeing me. She acted as if she did not know who I was... And, I could not tell if she was trying to make an impression on the guy sitting next to her at the bar and I don't really care.. whatever, ... but... it goes to show that there can be some rotation.. b/c I had not seen her in years.

Additionally, even here in LA, there are always going to be a certain number of people who are participating that are not part of the regular salsa scene, and i think that there is going to be some of that in other venues, as well. In that regard, sometimes a new person coming into the salsa dance scene can have more bang opportunities than an insider.. and sometimes an insider may have bang opportunities and to be able to spot outsiders who are peaking into the scene.

I think a lot of regular male salsa dancers will tend to spot and target for banging purposes women who are not regulars within the salsa scene.... though Doctore outlined some good strategies (in post # 62 above) about ways to be discrete in banging insiders within the dance scene... which can work sometimes, but also could still come back to bite you if you do not play your cards right.

[Samseau]

(09-16-2013 05:05 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(09-15-2013 10:47 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you do what I say you will get more bangs. STOP going for numbers, just pull the girl out of the venue using the method's I've already described in this thread.

I think that we have different techniques, styles and goals, and different things will work for different people at different times in their lives. I don't feel that i am failing in what i am accomplishing, even though my bang rate is down from what it was years ago (which I find somewhat disappointing, yet I am not backing off my age explanation / excuse as being a factor)... anyhow, I am adapting what i do to the new circumstances, and I have had times, when I did not really feel that I could follow up with girls on the dance floor b/c of work pressures and other energy obligation pressures.

These days, i am budgeting a little more of my activities to make more free time for potential follow-ups, which phone numbers work good for me for that to be able to follow up at my own convenience.. and my own energy and on my own terms.

Definitely, i am hesitant to attempt to bounce a girl that i had just met at a salsa dance scene to another location or even within the venue, sometimes depending on the circumstances - b/c many times, I am not necessarily getting the vibe that I would like, unless I meet a girl that really would trigger that kind of bouncing for that night (which is not too common in the scenes that i am in). Don't get me wrong, if the circumstances are feeling right, I may try some bouncing techniques whether bouncing to a quiet location within the venue or bouncing to another venue or even an "after party" so to speak and in some circumstances trying to go for additional SNLs.

I do appreciate reading what other guys do - b/c sometimes, those descriptions of tactics could work for me in various venues and with certain girls - and some times guys mention strategies that I have used at various times in the past.

For example, recently, i have been texting this girl who I met on the salsa scene a few weeks ago and dropping a lot direct hints about what I would like to do with her, physically the next time we meet, and I got some of these ideas from reading various posts on the forum. She has been responding fairly positively to many of my escalation suggestions, so I am expecting a bang, at some point, even though we have not yet worked out the logistics for when this may be happening.. but I am feeling pretty good about some of the signs that I am getting and ... I am optimistic, comfortable, and going with the flow in a way that fits with my time and energy budgets.

So you've never tried it, and yet you're sure it won't work. This is how to fail at game.

[JayJuanGee]

(09-19-2013 06:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

So you've never tried it, and yet you're sure it won't work. This is how to fail at game.

Sam:
I thank you for your suggestions on possible bang achievement strategies in the salsa scene; however, i thought that I explained myself fairly well in post # 93 above. Therein, I described that there is going to be some individual, situational and goal variance.

Also, it seems that you may have misunderstood the extent to which I try or have been trying various tactics, whether yours or others or just reconsidering my own tactics....

Maybe, even you misunderstood whether I am disappointed about my results or consider that my goals are similar to yours??? i'm not sure?

I did say earlier and I will reiterate that one of my goals has been to increase my salsa-related bangs, but to me, that does NOT mean that I want to or even have time or energy to bang every night that I attend a salsa scene or even that i want to bang every 30 times that i attend a salsa scene or that I have a specific number of bangs or a timeline in mind in which I would have to achieve bang results.

At this point, I have not specified such a timeline or specific bang goals for the forum. Generally, I am not in the practice of putting those kinds of outcome-oriented pressures on my hobbies and free-time - or even if I did, I am not sure if i would stated such a specific goal on the forum.. I know others have stated such goals, and I have no problem with that for them..

Isn't there a saying that "there is no free bang," or something to that effect..??. or is that about lunches..... well, in any event, certain resources and or logistics need to be in place or mustered to achieve certain specific results.. Surely, i could attempt to bang girls in the parking lot or in my car, and I have done those kinds of bangs in the past (and even in the salsa scene), so I am not opposed to the concept..... however, usually there is going to have to be a certain vibe for that kind of banging to take place.... and certainly, I could help to facilitate such a vibe, if that is what i wanted to achieve.

Ultimately, I am not going to bang at any cost or bang any two legged titted creature that moves in my direction on the dance floor or even employ techniques that don't flow with my style and comfort.. In that regard, I am not saying that my style may not change at some time in the near future, but i am NOT going to change my style overnight b/c I am comfortable with using aspects of my current and historical style as a frame of reference comparison point for whatever changes that I chose to make or NOT to make.

You can hate on me for this way of thinking or suggest that you have golden gem solutions that will work for me to achieve my goals and NOT to be a "failure," but I consider those to be YOUR own constructions of what you think goals should be.

I plan to adapt, if necessary, as I see appropriate for my circumstances. In this regard, I am going to chose how to proceed in any given situation based on what i want to accomplish and I am NOT going to follow a script that may or may not be comfortable for me in a given situation, even though that script may be comfortable for someone like you in that same situation. I am NOT you, and thank god, or whoever, that each of us is different (at least, that is my impression of the world).

IMHO, there is likely no one-size fits all cookie-cutter approach and follow through that will work for every guy to increase his bangs in a given situation... even though I agree with you that certain frameworks can work better than others for achieving certain results in certain situations.

Finally, I may chose to apply certain scripts that have been suggested in certain situations or to stop taking numbers in certain situations or to bounce girls as necessary etc etc (which are approaches that you have suggested), and it is not like i have not done variations of some of these kinds of strategies in my life... b/c circumstances can call for such, and yes there may be some variations that I have not tried that I may want to try in certain situations to break me out of my comfort zone, if that is what it is. I have no problem with that; nonetheless, if you want to characterize my approach or follow through or plan for approaching and follow through as likely to fail, then that is YOUR choice of framing...

In this regard, it seems to me that your conclusion about what i should do and could do and outcomes are based on a standard that I have NOT created for myself but instead based on some ideas of standards that you are considering to be fitting for the situation.

Certainly, you can make those kinds of choices of strategy and approach and follow through for yourself and even others may be ready, willing and able to follow such. Nonetheless, I am going to consider and chose my approaches and follow throughs based on what I believe is comfortable for me and based on my perception of circumstances

Hopefully this makes sense, even though it seems that i have repeated what I had already said in post 93..

[Samseau]

Nah dude, you're just talking yourself out of trying something because you aren't used to it. Your rationalizations are typical of guys who are getting used to game.

Quote:

IMHO, there is likely no one-size fits all cookie-cutter approach and follow through that will work for every guy to increase his bangs in a given situation...

Actually there is a basic framework that all talented players use.

For example, The strategy of going for the bang ASAP is something all successful players do.

Another: Don't give excessive compliments.
Another: Keep the touching light and playful.
Another: Don't let her tell you what to do.
Another: Keep the conversation playful and light.

It doesn't matter what your goals are; girlfriend, wife, or just a fuck buddy, you should always do the above things. That's what GAME is predicated upon; the fact that women all share the same basic nature and there are a set of universal rules all men should use.

Quote:

You can hate on me for this way of thinking or suggest that you have golden gem solutions that will work for me to achieve my goals and NOT to be a "failure," but I consider those to be YOUR own constructions of what you think goals should be.

I don't understand. Is your goal to have your penis in a vagina?

Then just try what I say. I have gotten many men laid before you, and I will get many men laid after you.

It's okay if all you want is just one good girlfriend... you should still try to bang her on the same night you meet her. Even if you don't bang because she isn't comfortable with it, your chances of meeting up with her are 10x higher than if you were just to get her number at the dance venue.

Try what I suggest, and you will be shocked at the results. If you have a good dance with a girl who really follows your lead, and she's new to the scene, just ask her, "Hey, what are you doing right now?" And she'll say nothing or whatever, then ask her, "Wanna go get some drinks?" And see what happens. You might get rejected a few times but eventually you'll get a yes with a girl who's really into you and you will be extremely pleased with the results. Then you'll be like, "Damn Sam, why didn't I listen to you sooner?"

[JayMillz]

Time for me to start planning out some Congresses for next year

[Rotisserie]

(08-26-2013 05:59 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

Someone here made a comment to the effect of, 'girls who specialize in one particular form of dance are usually mediocre-looking girls with a near autistic fixation on that style of dance'.

Completely accurate. Aphelion also adds:

(08-26-2013 05:59 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

It's impossible to impress a salsa girl until you hit teacher-level status.

So the solution is easy. Avoid regulars. I never game advanced girls, barely ever even dance with them. I will never be Oliver Pineda, nor would I want to. If that's what it takes to impress a physically mediocre girl, who cares.

This is point number 1: pick the right venue, the right night of the week... where more beginners and intermediate level dancers are likely to go and not feel judged. Along this line, I avoid congresses.

(08-26-2013 07:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Are the guys strong competition?

I mean are they strong competition outside of salsa?

Many are not, but it depends on what level you're at. Like G alludes to, if you're fit or big, you have a huge advantage, given the physicality of salsa and especially bachata and merengue.

Side note, everyone knows about the sensuality of bachata, but merengue is my favorite dance to escalate. As others have mentioned here, girls want spontaneity. Many of those hot beginner gems see bachata as tacky and way too over-the-top sensual. Merengue is a 'happy' dance, it's the easiest latin dance possible because it's not structured like salsa or bachata (so you can do w/e you want and do crazy turns... just don't lose the beat), and best of all, it's so innocuous you can slowly get close and rather intimate and subtly rub your dick on them. About 2 months ago, I went dancing solo and danced w/ an Asian beginner who couldn't salsa for shit (1st timer). I talked to her for a bit, and later on in the night, I danced a merengue w/ her. I slowly got closer, rubbed my boner on her (as part of the dance of course), and she seemed to enjoy it, so as soon as the song ended I said 'Let's get a drink at my place.' I didn't get the bang the 1st night b/c I fucked up, but I did the 2nd.

I save my merengue for the hottest girls, which hopefully I've danced w/ and impressed w/ the salsa prior to the merengue.

(08-26-2013 01:14 PM)Ryre Wrote:  

Buddy of mine uses salsa a lot, but his go-to move isn't meeting girls at salsa places. It's taking girls he meets other ways to a salsa lesson and dance as a first date.

Due to most salsa guys lacking game and/or fitness, I feel confident and actually excited when a normal girl merely mentions salsa. That's home court advantage for me.

Another quick note, height doesn't matter NEARLY as much as in a regular club. In fact, I would go so far as saying height might be slightly more awkward in this situation, as 6'+ guys simply don't normally move as easily as the average/shorter dudes.

I am by no means an expert, teacher-level salsa dancer. My recipe is simply this:

-Know at least enough turns/patterns to not repeat a single one throughout a song, 2's better and more than enough. In my case, I can entertain a regular/congress-goer for about a song and a half, beginners for many more. The big downside here is it took me a long time to hone my repertoire to be both interesting and 'executable' for most girls, including beginners. I escalate the difficulty of the moves according to the girl's performance throughout the song.
-Lift weights. I wear a nice T and sneakers, as opposed to a button shirt and 'dancing shoes,' so my vibe says 'I don't take this lame stuff seriously.'

I've gotten several bangs (and relationships) from and thanks to salsa. Last night I got 3 numbers, from a late 20s Bulgarian 6.5, an early 20s Jewish-Italian 7.5+, and a 25 yo Mexican 8. Will I convert? Not sure, my game's actually not great yet.