[tairos]

Quote:

The end game is there will be a Post-Work world where notion of working builds character will be laughed at it. It may take 30-50 years but it will come. Increasingly sophisticated automation, robotics and technology won't leave much room for people working.

This is long overdue as it is. They've been predicting this for decades, and there's no valid reason why they shouldn't have been correct.

[Therapsid]

(07-13-2013 11:07 PM)tairos Wrote:  

Quote:

The end game is there will be a Post-Work world where notion of working builds character will be laughed at it. It may take 30-50 years but it will come. Increasingly sophisticated automation, robotics and technology won't leave much room for people working.

This is long overdue as it is. They've been predicting this for decades, and there's no valid reason why they shouldn't have been correct.

I agree. What's been missed is that, in fact, many of the problems the middle class have faced since the 70's have been the result of insufficient technological progress.

See: Tyler Cowen's "The Great Stagnation" and especially Peter Thiel's speeches and writings on technological stagnation.

Start here: link

[Kristian]

(07-13-2013 12:53 PM)travolta Wrote:  

After college I travelled. I realized that all I wanted to do was travel, and that affiliate marketing was a plausible way to make this happen. I aggressively looked for and pursued people to mentor me. I found a solid mentor within my group of friends, and latched onto his every word.

I'm not necessarily saying to learn Affiliate Marketing, but figure out how you want to make money, and do whatever it takes to find a mentor who will teach you. Looking on the internet is not a good way to find a mentor... most people will NOT agree to this, as they have no incentive and have nothing to gain by helping you out. Being a mentor isn't some charity service... Finding a real mentor must be done in person. Honestly I sort of lucked out in the sense that my mentor was in my close group of friends, but I approached the situation properly. I told him that I'd listen to any advice he gave and actually go through with it. I did just that, and made money. Now we work together on projects.

Summary: do whatever you have to do to find a mentor. I don't think you can succeed without one. At least I wouldn't have if I tried without one.

I think that being surrounded with people with great ambitions and with a helpful mindset its one of the most valuable gifts one Young man can have..For example my environment its middle class...but with crappy ambitions..I think that all of my colleagues with end worse and worse.They don't have expectations,they don't have ambitions to grow or learn new skills..not even travel! They don't have money and are always complaining about not getting a job and don't do nothing to look for it or learn to market themselves...

by the way: which are the best resources to learn about affiliate marketing?

(07-13-2013 02:23 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Some great suggestions in here for sure. As usual, excellent input YMG! I suggest every young gun in here to print and and put this post in a place where they can see it every day! These sites below are simply pure gold! Thanks for sharing them!

(07-13-2013 12:35 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

3. Acquire Digital Nomad Skill Sets

Your regular work hours will be about 20-30 hours per week so you can either do tutoring and make more cash or you can invest in building location independent digital skillsets such as:

-Coding http://www.codecademy.com
-Wordpress https://www.udemy.com/building-custom-wo...m-scratch/
-Design https://www.udemy.com/courses/Design
-SEO http://moz.com/learn/seo
-Languages http://www.italki.com http://www.duolingo.com


Don't wait for your big break - you gotta make it happen.

Geoarbitrage is the way.

Also would suggest young guys to go for a trade/oil sands as opposed to a useless degree in Arts. If you're set on doing a degree to appease the family's expectations, then take petroleum engineering. Do trades for 5-10 years in the oil sands in your 20's and by the time you reach your thirties, you'd have a great career, have a solid, valuable and portable skill,be debt free and a few hundred G's if not a Mill or two in the bank. Then you can do whatever the hell you please with the rest of your life.

that's my situation man,I'm doing a degree in human resources development and I don't know how can I boost my carrer and direction with it...

do you have a website? I reember that you mentioned it in other post.

thanks mate

[MrLemon]

I'll ask the same question I always ask:

"How long before young unemployed men start picking up guns and shooting people?"

It's not long in Greece and other parts of Europe. Fascism is picking up steam at an incredible rate.

I give it maybe 5 years before we see serious Nazi party equivalents in power. 10 years till ethnic cleansing on significant scale, or civil war in China.

Every says "oh, don't be so pessimistic". Well, just read a few history books folks.

[beerbelly@26]

(07-14-2013 12:38 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(07-13-2013 11:07 PM)tairos Wrote:  

Quote:

The end game is there will be a Post-Work world where notion of working builds character will be laughed at it. It may take 30-50 years but it will come. Increasingly sophisticated automation, robotics and technology won't leave much room for people working.

This is long overdue as it is. They've been predicting this for decades, and there's no valid reason why they shouldn't have been correct.

I agree. What's been missed is that, in fact, many of the problems the middle class have faced since the 70's have been the result of insufficient technological progress.

See: Tyler Cowen's "The Great Stagnation" and especially Peter Thiel's speeches and writings on technological stagnation.

Start here: link

actually it is already happening and it has been happening since about the late 1960s -- automation is eliminating labor. the difference between say the steel mills becoming automated and today is that it is now white collar work and intellectual work that is more and more automated and outsourced.

It is interesting to me that the OP posed this question, and others have answered accordingly, as what will YOU do about the jobless economy.
This is a collective situation, responding individually is akin to maintaining the status quo in which the working class is all but dead and the middle class is now not far behind:

http://sourcefednews.com/america-has-the...dle-class/

unemployment is no longer cyclical, meaning it varies according to the business cycle, it is now secular, meaning there is structural unemployment / underemployment

[Que enspastic]

who on this forum is caught in the post-college death spiral of unemployment?

[darklightdispatch]

I've totally given up on formal, job-style employment. It just isn't a part of my reality anymore. Sure, I'd do whatever if it was the only option to survive and I'd jump on it if something really cool came along employment-wise (can't honestly imagine what, though) but, overall, I don't plan on ever having a job again.

Short term, I'm working on getting back into freelance writing (which I did to some success a few years back.) Once I have a bit of money saved up, I then want to branch out into internet marketing (paid traffic.) This is something I also have some experience with but screwed up when I was younger. If when/my marketing efforts take off, I'll phase out the writing.

[OSL]

-

Yes, this problem is definitely structural and not cyclical. Many things have dramatically changed in the past 10 years.

All of BeerBelly's points are valid.

Although these macro events are raining down the double whammy of debt and unemployment upon the youth, I think that it is unwise to expect anything from politicians or the government. They will make things worse before they make things better (beerbelly, this is not a rebuttal to what you were saying, just pointing out that government won't help young people out).

Thus, young people have to acknowledge the following:


1. I am of no value to anyone in the current local job market

2. Nobody forced me to take on debt and learn French literature or Anthropology. This was my decision and I am responsible for the actions in my own life.

3. I have the right to a job when I am qualified with the proper skills for that job and I am individually responsible for equipping myself with those skills to not make myself irrelevant in the global economy.

4. Many of the kinds of skills that I need to be relevant in the 21st century can be found online and acquired over a period of 3-24 months with diligence and practice.

http://www.codecademy.com
http://www.udemy.com
http://www.coursera.com
http://www.lynda.com
http://www.onemonthrails.com

5. If I am not valuable where I am, I have to clarify my USP and the value that I actually DO add to potential employers - then seek out those opportunities, where ever in the world they may be.

-----

The unemployment crisis is very simple to define, in my opinion.

Changes in the global economy have rendered you useless where you currently are physically located. Thus you should physically relocate yourself to where opportunities exist for someone with your profile.

Whether they like it or not, 22-24 year old college graduates with degrees in the humanities and student loan debt are totally useless in the job market in North America and Europe.

Where is this person valuable?

When all you can do is write papers, speak English, and use the internet, the best immediate option for making a salary and saving money or paying off your debts is to teach English in Asia.

Thus, you can consider a two-three year period when you are teaching English and paying off your debts as a sort of "Masters in 21st Century Digital Skills"

Say that you have 30K in student loan debts. Over a period of 2.5 years you can:

1. Get work experience teaching (still counts as work experience!)

2. Have an amazing life story

3. Travel while you are young

4. Pay off your 30K of student loan debt by budgeting correctly

5. Date amazing women

6. Network with internationals in the fastest growing region in the world

7. Teach yourself wordpress, graphic design, coding, microsoft office, iWork suite, PHP, python, ruby on rails, creation of mobile apps, copywriting, SEO - all for less than the cost of ONE COLLEGE COURSE.

8. Try, fail, try again, and ultimately succeed with low risk and small scale business ventures such as:

flipping mobile websites in underserved markets and in your local neighborhood where ever you live.

Flipping basic wordpress sites for businesses in the local city where you are teaching

Import/Export during your free time like the guys at http://www.theelevatorlife.com

----

Thus after this period of time you will have acquired the technical skills that you are interested in - whether it's PHP, graphic design, mobile game development, import/export - and also tested your skills out in a low risk real-time environment.

Your mentality going into this should be:


At WORST I will pay off my student loan debt, get two or three years of teaching experience, build up various skillsets to proficiency that will make me valuable as a 21st century digital worker, and have a bunch of skills/portfolio/experiences that will make me useful and employable.


The BEST situation is that you have picked up a business opportunity that allows you to pursue a scale-able venture of some sort.

PHP, CSS, HTML, Javascript, Python, Ruby on Rails, Graphic Design - do not forget these facts:

1. Nobody is BORN a coding genius.

2. You do not have to become a coding GENIUS - you just have to become good enough to use it in a business environment.

3. You may think you are not "left brained enough" to master these skills. But many people have picked up these skills on their own by experimenting with their own projects.

Simultaneously, you can do what I did and find a reliable partner to work with who sees your vision and commit to the long run. This is hard to find but once you do find that technical person, treat this person well, work hard, display your value through your actions, and don't get go!

----

Obama's fault? Bush's fault? Bankers' fault? Illuminati's fault? FED's fault?

Does it matter?

Whether your current situation is a result of your own decisions or because of the economic crisis, the fact of the matter is the only thing you can control is what you do RIGHT NOW.

This is the crisis our generation is facing. Whether we pull ourselves out of it by going abroad and coming back equipped with 21st century skills and bilingualism......or by complaining and occupying wall street, hoping for a "bailout" - we will be defined by how we react to this crisis and if we decide to become victims or if we turn this into an opportunity to explore the other 95% of the world that is not the United States.

My dream is an International Generation Y.

A generation Y that shuts the smug boomers up.

We will go abroad and learn new langauges. We will broaden our horizons.

We'll strike up business deals in Mandarin, Spanish, Russian, and Arabic. We'll be Americans and Canadians brokering cement, android tablets, and services between Nigerians and Cantonese businessmen.

My dream is that we will pull America out of this crisis by pulling ourselves individually out of this crisis.

America consists of individuals. It's us as citizens and individuals that comprise our nation and when we collectively pull ourselves out of a shitty situation, we will see a better future.

Imagine if 1M Gen Y millenials left abroad to teach english, go to the peace corps, and explore business opportunities in the middle east, Africa, FSU, Asia, Latin America?

Then came back with all of those skills, languages, connections, and experiences?

We could pave the way for the next wave of unemployed grads that are going to hit the market soon.

In my humble opinion, "self-globalization" is the answer to the unemployment crisis.

-

[RichieP]

Bang on YMG, well put.

It's about showing you're an investment to an employer - if they pay you x they're going to get 3x or 5x or 10x in value from your input.

I actually think humanities degrees can be put to good use - if you can pivot the skills learned. Essay subjects teach effective and persuasive communication, which is very important in many industries, but you have to be able to package those skills up in a way that adds value to a business.

The deeper problem is the insitutitionalization - we're taught to think that there's some magical conveyor belt from school --> uni --> first job --> career, and all we have to do is get on it.

It's a myth, and just simply the wrong mindset. People have to open their eyes and realise the world is built on trade - buying and selling - and if you want money you have to be selling something people want. It can be skills, time, brainpower - but you have to see it as a sale, and act accordingly. That means presenting yourself as an "investable opportunity" that they're going to get a positive return on... not just sending out 200 CVs and hoping you get a job, blaming "tough economic times" if it doesn't work out.

[Eastbound]

YMG: Why bother paying the student loans back? Most American guys on this forum seems to want out of the U.S either due to the economy or the lack of decent women. If you are a young recent college grad, you have nothing weighing you down except debt. Pick up a gig abroad and never look back. This is what I am doing and I have no moral qualms about it. The U.S government has forsaken Generation Y and ladened us with an unimaginable debt burden. If your government doesn't honor its obligations than why should you? Its a brave new world folks....

[OSL]

(07-18-2013 03:47 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

Bang on YMG, well put.

It's about showing you're an investment to an employer - if they pay you x they're going to get 3x or 5x or 10x in value from your input.

I actually think humanities degrees can be put to good use - if you can pivot the skills learned. Essay subjects teach effective and persuasive communication, which is very important in many industries, but you have to be able to package those skills up in a way that adds value to a business.

The deeper problem is the insitutitionalization - we're taught to think that there's some magical conveyor belt from school --> uni --> first job --> career, and all we have to do is get on it.

It's a myth, and just simply the wrong mindset. People have to open their eyes and realise the world is built on trade - buying and selling - and if you want money you have to be selling something people want. It can be skills, time, brainpower - but you have to see it as a sale, and act accordingly. That means presenting yourself as an "investable opportunity" that they're going to get a positive return on... not just sending out 200 CVs and hoping you get a job, blaming "tough economic times" if it doesn't work out.

Yes I agree with all of this.

Humanities can be useful but it has to be packaged and utilized in a way that makes sense.

I know someone working for one of the more prominent e-learning startups. He taught English in Korea for about 2 years and simultaneously paid off his student loan debt while teaching himself how to code.

He graduated from Syracuse with a major in Family/Children Studies (or something equally useless).

However, because of his academic background he was able to put his academic theory into use and really learn from different teaching jobs in public schools, private schools, and tutoring.

Combined with his independently acquired PHP/Coding skills, he was a very strong candidate at age 25 to come aboard in this e-learning startup in a range of capacities - both business development and technical/coding - because he acquired the skill sets that adhere to both the "e" and the "learning" parts of "e-learning".

---

The world has radically changed and nothing will ever be the same. People aren't getting results because they are trying to use 20th century career tactics in a 21st century economy.

You are on your own. The results of that fact are very polarizing. You can thrive if you embrace your independence and explore unorthodox opportunities or you can keep sending out your CV to endless companies and complaining that the 1% is bringing you down.


---

[OSL]

(07-18-2013 04:03 AM)Eastbound Wrote:  

YMG: Why bother paying the student loans back? Most American guys on this forum seems to want out of the U.S either due to the economy or the lack of decent women. If you are a young recent college grad, you have nothing weighing you down except debt. Pick up a gig abroad and never look back. This is what I am doing and I have no moral qualms about it. The U.S government has forsaken Generation Y and ladened us with an unimaginable debt burden. If your government doesn't honor its obligations than why should you? Its a brave new world folks....

Eastbound - is that even an option? How would one go about doing that?

I don't think you can declare bankruptcy for student loan debt.

Wouldn't that also destroy your credit?

I'm not too sure about this. It's all about opportunity cost.

If someone can fill in more details here that would be really useful.

--

[Eastbound]

Of course, its not an option if you want to stay in the U.S but I have no desire too. The day before I left the U.S I tried hard to hard to find one redeeming aspect of the country and I simply couldn't. Stagnant economy, crippling debt, high taxes and regulatory burden, geographically isolated, fat women,etc...Which of these is keeping you in America?As for how to go about it,its simple...just don't pay. You can even have some fun with it like I did. Send the Department of Education a letter saying, "Dear Uncle Sam thank you for financing by useless overpriced 4 year degree. I regret to inform you that I will not be honoring my obligations",etc...Believe it or not, I actually got a very amusing reply. My point is, ignore the rule book. The rule makers do. No one gets ahead in this world by playing fair.

[OSL]

(07-18-2013 09:27 AM)Eastbound Wrote:  

Of course, its not an option if you want to stay in the U.S but I have no desire too. The day before I left the U.S I tried hard to hard to find one redeeming aspect of the country and I simply couldn't. Stagnant economy, crippling debt, high taxes and regulatory burden, geographically isolated, fat women,etc...Which of these is keeping you in America?As for how to go about it,its simple...just don't pay. You can even have some fun with it like I did. Send the Department of Education a letter saying, "Dear Uncle Sam thank you for financing by useless overpriced 4 year degree. I regret to inform you that I will not be honoring my obligations",etc...Believe it or not, I actually got a very amusing reply. My point is, ignore the rule book. The rule makers do. No one gets ahead in this world by playing fair.

I would love to know what their reply was. Can you give us the verbatim? Or at least a detailed summary?

Do you have a second passport? The IRS is global now. If you are serious you might want to consider renunciation.

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/man-tr...nied-6362/

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/facts-...ship-1977/

What is your plan now that you are essentially going to become an economic refugee?

-

[TheKantian]

(07-18-2013 02:42 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

4. Many of the kinds of skills that I need to be relevant in the 21st century can be found online and acquired over a period of 3-24 months with diligence and practice.

http://www.codecademy.com
http://www.udemy.com
http://www.coursera.com
http://www.lynda.com
http://www.onemonthrails.com

How do you rate these?

I was looking some courses on coursera and they seem interesting.

[w00t]

(07-18-2013 09:27 AM)Eastbound Wrote:  

Of course, its not an option if you want to stay in the U.S but I have no desire too. The day before I left the U.S I tried hard to hard to find one redeeming aspect of the country and I simply couldn't. Stagnant economy, crippling debt, high taxes and regulatory burden, geographically isolated, fat women,etc...Which of these is keeping you in America?As for how to go about it,its simple...just don't pay. You can even have some fun with it like I did. Send the Department of Education a letter saying, "Dear Uncle Sam thank you for financing by useless overpriced 4 year degree. I regret to inform you that I will not be honoring my obligations",etc...Believe it or not, I actually got a very amusing reply. My point is, ignore the rule book. The rule makers do. No one gets ahead in this world by playing fair.

lol please tell us what they replied!

[Eastbound]

Quote:

I would love to know what their reply was. Can you give us the verbatim? Or at least a detailed summary?

Alas, the letter fell victim to a booze infused bonfire. If my memory serves right, it was about a page and half of D.C bureaucrat babble. The gist of it was if you go through with this:
1. Your creditor score will suffer(which doesn't mean anything outside U.S) 2. You will not be able to take further loans for graduate study(Made me laugh out loud. I mean...really? so I can find myself jobless 2 years later with more debt).
3. We will garnish your wages(Only effects U.S based income).

Quote:

Do you have a second passport? The IRS is global now. If you are serious you might want to consider renunciation.

I am fortunate enough to have a second passport. Though I don't see the problem for Americans with only one. Student loan defaults are not criminal. Its an entirely different animal from tax evasion and does not fall under the umbrella of the IRS. Renunciation is unfortunately a complicated and I think expensive procedure. I never earned much in the U.S so I think I am under the tax man's radar.

Quote:

What is your plan now that you are essentially going to become an economic refugee?

Haha, economic refugee, I like that. Well, honestly, there's more job opportunities overseas than there are in the U.S so I don't feel like I am shooting myself in the foot. When I came to Vienna, I found a restaurant gig in a few days. Then I started English tutoring. Yesterday, I received a real interesting(potentially lucrative) job offer. There's a big myth out there that everyone in the world hates Americans. We are actually deemed very high value, its almost VIP status. American pop culture is idolized. Plus, being a university educated native English speaker puts you in a tiny elite percentage of people world wide. I don't know how many times I have had Austrian people here tell me how they wished there were more 'immigrants' like me. I don't know how long I will stay but its nice base to size up my options. And let me tell the American guys on Rooshv, there are options aplenty out there, you just need to be mobile.

[R Smoov]

(07-18-2013 12:39 PM)TheKantian Wrote:  

(07-18-2013 02:42 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

4. Many of the kinds of skills that I need to be relevant in the 21st century can be found online and acquired over a period of 3-24 months with diligence and practice.

http://www.codecademy.com
http://www.udemy.com
http://www.coursera.com
http://www.lynda.com
http://www.onemonthrails.com

How do you rate these?

I was looking some courses on coursera and they seem interesting.

Codeacademy:
Rosca's Rating: 4/5
It's a real good site actually, it teaches you the basics of coding and gives you helpful hints that can help you if you're stuck. Right now, I'm relearning HTML to get myself back on the road of coding.
Udemy:
Rosca's Rating: 3.75/5

It's alright. A good way to learn stuff if you're low on money is to just go to whatever subject and then click the free section. So far I learned what Photoshop CS6 has and it's differences from older versions. It's pretty neat.

Coursera:
Rosca's Rating: 4.5/5

This site is pretty good. It's close as a straight up college course. I'm taking a class about Networks such as cellphone use and shit like that. It's cool.

The other two are paid sites. Times is hard so they ain't getting a rating. I'd suggest learning all you can from these three sites and if there's a specific site that you

Some other alternatives would be.

http://www.udacity.com
http://www.youtube.com

On some real shit I think would be cool if some members worked together on shit like Coursera and learn a course as a team. Then you got a group of people you can study with and not waste your time looking at the forums only to see some IRT asking for answers. If anyone's down, just hit the PM button under the Pikachu avatar.

[OSL]

Quote:

Alas, the letter fell victim to a booze infused bonfire. If my memory serves right, it was about a page and half of D.C bureaucrat babble. The gist of it was if you go through with this:
1. Your creditor score will suffer(which doesn't mean anything outside U.S) 2. You will not be able to take further loans for graduate study(Made me laugh out loud. I mean...really? so I can find myself jobless 2 years later with more debt).
3. We will garnish your wages(Only effects U.S based income).

That all seems solid. I hope for your sake you don't need to rely on your US credit rating. Was this a federal loan?

Quote:

I am fortunate enough to have a second passport. Though I don't see the problem for Americans with only one. Student loan defaults are not criminal. Its an entirely different animal from tax evasion and does not fall under the umbrella of the IRS. Renunciation is unfortunately a complicated and I think expensive procedure. I never earned much in the U.S so I think I am under the tax man's radar.

Okay then that is very good for you that you have a second passport. Is it European or something with equally strong travel and business privileges?

It's true that defaulting is not criminal. It's also true that the IRS has been doing things like targeting libertarian political groups for audits and massively abusing their power. The government in general has also been proven to be massively overstepping their powers and doing things like spying on everyone all the time via their web activity. They are also killing American citizens with drone strikes out of the sky.

As such, I don't know if staying abroad and ignoring your debts is going to be the end of this story.

It's obviously highly unlikely that you'll end up getting knocked out by a drone strike because of student loan debts. But in any situation in which you owe the government a large sum of money is not a situation that will just disappear on its own, IMO.

Do you know people personally who have done this in the past?

I am not trying to rebut or counter anything you are saying. I am trying to play devil's advocate. Through some illegal activity on their part they might randomly decide to screw with your life somehow. You have no idea what will happen in the new America. You might have to literally spend the rest of your life abroad.

[OSL]

Quote:

Also would suggest young guys to go for a trade/oil sands as opposed to a useless degree in Arts. If you're set on doing a degree to appease the family's expectations, then take petroleum engineering. Do trades for 5-10 years in the oil sands in your 20's and by the time you reach your thirties, you'd have a great career, have a solid, valuable and portable skill,be debt free and a few hundred G's if not a Mill or two in the bank. Then you can do whatever the hell you please with the rest of your life.

This is also a solid and viable option. Trades can't be outsourced and there are tons of work sites around the country in the energy industry that constantly seem to need labor.

Scotian's oil sands thread is testament to this fact.

Whatever trade you learn is a portable skill set too. You can live that tradesman life and have a cush life in a lot of emerging markets, stashing your cash offshore and keeping a low profile.

I feel like agricultural engineers will also face a bright future. Or at least Jim Rogers won't stop talking about how the next millionaires are going to be Iowa farmers. It's hard to ignore that man.

-

[Eastbound]

Quote:

That all seems solid. I hope for your sake you don't need to rely on your US credit rating. Was this a federal loan?

Yes, they were federal loans and no I don't rely in anyway on the U.S credit rating system which is nothing short of a twisted system.

Quote:

Okay then that is very good for you that you have a second passport. Is it European or something with equally strong travel and business privileges?

Yea, I have U.K citizenship.

Quote:

As such, I don't know if staying abroad and ignoring your debts is going to be the end of this story.

It's obviously highly unlikely that you'll end up getting knocked out by a drone strike because of student loan debts. But in any situation in which you owe the government a large sum of money is not a situation that will just disappear on its own, IMO.

Do you know people personally who have done this in the past?

I am not trying to rebut or counter anything you are saying. I am trying to play devil's advocate. Through some illegal activity on their part they might randomly decide to screw with your life somehow. You have no idea what will happen in the new America. You might have to literally spend the rest of your life abroad.

Believe me, I didn't make the decision lightly. I am entirely comfortable with the prospect of never living/working/doing business in the U.S. Imo, America is just one piece(an ever shrinking one at that) of the global economy. As it is right now, I can visit the U.S anytime I want. The fact that I am delinquent on my student loans and have a bad credit score now simply doesn't effect me. Is it possible that in the future this changes? Yea, its not difficult to imagine. The student loan bubble is no joke. I could see the government putting traveling restrictions on people who have defaulted. Its going to be a big problem. This is just one of a multitude of reasons I wanted out.

I am probably more pessimistic than you, YMG and undoubtedly less patriotic. I think we are about to witness a mass American migration and they wont be coming back. Having traveled a lot, America has no comparative advantage anymore. The U.S used to be THE place to do business. Now, we are one of the most expensive places to do business. The highest taxes and regulatory burden in the OECD. And things are only going to get worse. When the debt problem comes to fruition borrowing money is going to become very expensive, interest rates are already rising.

[LowerCaseG]

(07-18-2013 04:03 AM)Eastbound Wrote:  

YMG: Why bother paying the student loans back? Most American guys on this forum seems to want out of the U.S either due to the economy or the lack of decent women. If you are a young recent college grad, you have nothing weighing you down except debt. Pick up a gig abroad and never look back. This is what I am doing and I have no moral qualms about it. The U.S government has forsaken Generation Y and ladened us with an unimaginable debt burden. If your government doesn't honor its obligations than why should you? Its a brave new world folks....

I have a relative doing this. At first I thought it was shady, but it's been a few years, and the consequences really aren't so bad.

Yes, your credit will be bad. But so what. A lot of people have incredible credit, but you know what? It isn't doing anything for them.

Applying good credit to this thread, what do you need it for?

1. Credit card. Irrelevant if you pay in full every month. Are you aware that you will actually earn a better score by carrying a small monthly balance vs. paying it off every month?

2. Buying a car. Sure, but I bought a 2010 car with under 3k miles on it for 15k a few years ago. Paid cash, even though they were offering 0% for the 2011 model. I have a horrible driving record, so I do not carry collision, which would be mandatory if the car was financed. I have very good credit, but it would have cost me thousands of dollars in this situation to use it.

3. Buying a property. Most applicable, however many of you are mobile world travelers who do not seem interested in owning a home.

4. Renting an apartment. Yes again, however many smaller landlords do not pull credit reports, and your credit score isn't everything.

5. I hear sometimes employers use your credit score as to decide whether to hire you. Not too familiar with this practice.

I have felt for a long time, people are obsessed with their credit, but do nothing to use it as a tool. If it is not doing anything for you, why do you care what your credit score is? Are you going to pay off 50k in bills so it will help you rent an apartment 10 years down the line?

It's true that student loan debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy...RIGHT NOW. That can all change with one signature at any point in the future. There are already programs where if you agree to a modest monthly payment, and make all your payment for x years, at the end it will be discharged. It is still merely unsecured debt. They cannot put you in jail, or garnish your wages. It's a personal choice, and I am not currently seeing big consequences for those not paying.

As for the above poster who says there is no moral dilemma, well, those loans are guaranteed by the govt so in essence, you and I will most likely be paying them. However, this argument applies to a myriad of other practices as well.

[GameTheory]

something that hasn't been mentioned yet:
in your 20's and 30's, don't have kids and don't get married. this will give you the freedom to do all of the above in this thread

[Brodiaga]

(07-13-2013 08:43 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

Pick an interest in a STEM field or go into IT.

I majored in a joke comm degree. Graduated and had no future prospects.

Thankfully, i didn't realize i had 4 years of desktop support under my belt that is super valuable.

1 year later, i'm making 60k in a top 10 dma market with a job supporting in house web platforms that run a company. The girlfriend is making nearly the same amount in software design (business admin major).

I have friends who are just getting by with half of my income and no benefits in huge cities like La and NYC.

I went to school and worked. I am entitled to this income. Christ, i spent so much time finding a job. 300+ resumes and 20 interviews later, boom!

When I go to parties with people my own age (early to mid 20s) everyone is either in grad school, law school, or underemployed.

It makes me uncomfortable when I tell people i'm employed, let alone how much I make. It's unheard of how blessed I am. The fact I am able to afford a car is a big enough sign of affluence.

My experience is similar: degrees in Econ and Business, then realized that tech was better and found a way to combine both by learning data manipulation/analytics software and using it to solve business problems.

[Brodiaga]

(07-19-2013 06:10 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  

something that hasn't been mentioned yet:
in your 20's and 30's, don't have kids and don't get married. this will give you the freedom to do all of the above in this thread

I'm in my early 30s and not married, no kids. I am getting less and less motivated to ever get married or have kids. I agree with you, though, It's better not to have a family at all than to get divorce raped.