[TheBulldozer]

(05-28-2013 10:24 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

@MaleDefined I used to fast a lot too. It feels good to just detox my entire system. Almost every major religion has some type of fasting associated with it, its been around forever. I swear my abs look better just by clearing out my intestines...

An underrated benefit of fasting is how much you want to sleep. A planned fast looks like this:

Coffee
Eat
Workout
Shake
Relax/Sleep for 9-10 hours
Coffee
Eat

18 hours of unwinding my body the way I want to.

There is no substitute for the health benefits of sleeping until you can't sleep anymore.

[Nascimento]

MaleDefined could you go into a bit more detail on how you fast?

If a week is 7 days and you fast for almost 2 full days, how is your caloric intake for the other 5 days of the week?

How do you structure workouts around the fasting period?

What about protein intake? During long fasting periods such as this (much longer than IF) won't they body start to breakdown more muscle?

This is an interesting idea. If I would eat at just below maintenance calories for 6 days of the week and do a 24 hour fast at the end of it, I could see this leading to some great progress. Besides any additional fasting benefits I am not yet aware of.

[Hades]

-duplicate post, sorry-

[Hades]

I checked my keto notes and found some more info for the OP.

It's very easy to undereat in terms of fat consumption on keto even if you think you're eating a fatty diet because satiety is different than when your feelings of hunger work in conjunction with blood sugar. Fat is sort of your filler nutrient.

Most of the guys who say keto fucked them up and gave them man tits after a year were going through a protracted 'rabbit starvation' (where they ate lean protein and fat consumption was far too low) - at first they report that they had tons of energy and got shredded (because they were essentially doing a protein sparing fast), but then their metabolic fire died from lack of fuel and they started cannibalizing lean body mass as they developed starvation related adrenal fatigue, which will create a vicious feedback loop that accelerates the growth of man tits since your testosterone levels plummet, and further lower your T-levels (and increase estrogen) as the ratio of body fat to lean body mass becomes less favorable. According to the keto calculator, that's exactly what should happen, and the way to prevent it is to eat more fat. You'll find a lot of "ex-keto" guys on the internet dissing the diet and the only thing in common with all of them (besides man tits) is that none of them counted out enough fat calories, and somehow because they didn't hit the books and it didn't work in their experience, keto can't be done.

Some of the reasons that lead to this underconsumption of fat are that fatty cuts of meat can be hard to find, buying healthy fats can be expensive (omega-3 content is the name of the game), and it's hard to figure out creative ways to eat masses of coconut oil, butter, and olive oil so it's understandable that many have problems in this respect.

I also found that it was easy to not eat enough vegetables when fear of losing keto through eating leafy vegetables is unfounded as long as protein consumption is sensible- a cup of spinach has only a gram of carbohydrates and you need about thirty grams of carbs per day anyway.

This calculator is damned useful for figuring out what you should be doing, as you should be counting calories and metering out fat consumption -

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

I don't know if I can post this link, but reddit has a pretty good keto community and they should be able to break it down for you better than on the rvf. A lot of guys here are prejudiced against it for a multitude of reasons, but different approaches work for different people and you just have to take the time and do your research. People with epilepsy or schizophrenia cannot be told that keto diets are unworkable for the long term (the alternative is a lifetime of psychoactive drugs and routinely being institutionalized), and those are the sort of resources you should try to consult for finding long term effects, because they must be committed to their diets.
Anyway here's the reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/keto

Here's the FAQ - http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq - it's all you really have to know about these diets. Their post on the keto flu is what you should be most interested in.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Magnesium, increased sodium and a potassium supplement works wonders to kill low carb fatigue.

Oh and ignore the guy who said you need carbs to live, carbs aren't essential unlike fats and protein.

[dog24]

to the op it seems strange that you didnt post how much calories a day you are consuming, like someone said looks like youre trying to do a half assed keto diet, your body wont run on fat unless you go below 30g of carbs-daily and of course youre gonna feel shitty when.youre depriving your.body of its fuel. look up carb cycling or go full keto. hades you seem to know your stuff, how can anyone not be consuming enough fat on keto? every food i ate during that time had plenty of fats in it i.e meat, eggs... are there guys who eat chicken.breast all day? also ive never heard of gyno or metabolic damage caused by the diet, got some more info on this?

[VincentVinturi]

I've played with low carb/primal diets for years.

I find my sex drive is higher and my mood is generally better if I eat some potatoes/rice/noodles 1x day or every other day. And a little bit of simple sugars as well.

When I go keto, I get all tense and antsy, even after a week of allowing for "fat adaptation". I'm ukrainian so maybe I have some genetic adaptations to eating more carbs. I think everybody's different and you have to listen to your body.

I do better with some carbs. Maybe I won't live as long but I'm already sub 10% body fat and ketosis just screws with my mood and I'm nowhere near as horny.

So these days I typically eat dinner around 10pm, then eat a high fat/high protein breakfast at around 1pm the next day. So it's a intermittent fast (albeit not the full recommended 16 hours). Then I'll work out around 5pm and at dinner go high protein/mid fat/mid carb.

That's just what experimentally seems to work best for me in terms of reconciling well-being, enjoyment of life and sex drive. It's good to play with different ways of eating but it's also important to listen to your body.

[billy]

Going into keto properly feels like getting the flu and after 3 days to a week that should wear off and you ate left with low energy, bad breath, constant pissing etc. As your body kicks into keto expect instant weight loss as your body uses up its glycogen, after this is gone then the fat will start to go. I would personally look to go to keto for 4 to six weeks at a time as weight and fitness training is fucking hard with no carbs.

[Laser]

As some of the poster's mentioned above, the key to long term keto dieting is once a week cheat/carb refeed days. I went hard keto (less than 50g of carbs/day) for a few months and got real cut up while maintaining my lifts. Also, eat more fats on a daily basis. I eat high fat cuts of meat and supplement my shakes with whole cream and olive oil.

Check out this link for an article about how to go about carb refeeding when on a keto diet (WARNING NSFW!):

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...dator.html

"studies have shown that long-term ketogenic diets inhibit muscle growth when the dieter is in a hypocaloric state, which you'll likely be in for at least part of the week if you're doing one or more days of Protein Sparing Modified Fasts"

" The Rampage Day is essential for getting insanely strong and lean, as a day in which you deliberately overeat carbohydrates is utterly necessary for muscular hypertrophy, strength gains, and overall recomposition. Essentially, the Rampage Day confers more benefits than a cattle prod at a school for the mentally retarded- it stimulates your metabolism,(Matsumoto) replenishes your glycogen stores for heavy training,(Bowden) increases your thyroid, adrenal, and sex hormones,(Poehlman) provides sundry mental health benefits through a forced break from clean eating,(Westrate) and helps normalize most, if not all, of the hormones [involved in] metabolic slowdown: leptin, ghrelin, insulin, etc.”(McDonald RFD 46)"

[Captain Gh]

(05-29-2013 06:18 AM)Laser Wrote:  

As some of the poster's mentioned above, the key to long term keto dieting is once a week cheat/carb refeed days. I went hard keto (less than 50g of carbs/day) for a few months and got real cut up while maintaining my lifts. Also, eat more fats on a daily basis. I eat high fat cuts of meat and supplement my shakes with whole cream and olive oil.

Check out this link for an article about how to go about carb refeeding when on a keto diet (WARNING NSFW!):

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...dator.html

"studies have shown that long-term ketogenic diets inhibit muscle growth when the dieter is in a hypocaloric state, which you'll likely be in for at least part of the week if you're doing one or more days of Protein Sparing Modified Fasts"

" The Rampage Day is essential for getting insanely strong and lean, as a day in which you deliberately overeat carbohydrates is utterly necessary for muscular hypertrophy, strength gains, and overall recomposition. Essentially, the Rampage Day confers more benefits than a cattle prod at a school for the mentally retarded- it stimulates your metabolism,(Matsumoto) replenishes your glycogen stores for heavy training,(Bowden) increases your thyroid, adrenal, and sex hormones,(Poehlman) provides sundry mental health benefits through a forced break from clean eating,(Westrate) and helps normalize most, if not all, of the hormones [involved in] metabolic slowdown: leptin, ghrelin, insulin, etc.”(McDonald RFD 46)"

I used to do carb cutting a lot to get shredded, but keep in mind that unless you're a bodybuilder or a fitness model, it's really not beneficial or usefull at all. Instead I would suggest that you adopt an intermittant fasting lifestyle.

Eat 2-3 times a day with large meals and make sure that on a daily basis that there's no food entering your metabolism for 14-16 hours straight and I swear the weight will stay off. Lost 17 pounds without beating myself at the gym like I use to in 3 weeks.

The current phase of 6 meals a day is NOT a good solution long term. By only eating 3 times a day, food is no longer a concern and your metabolism feels so light. A good book to read for more info is this: http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?ur...Simplified

ps: this goes against pretty much all the information about dieting and the way to approach food. Well since you're on this forum you already know about the information that we're getting on relationship in the media right!! Be a really good beta and you'll be really happy.

Well the nutrition field is another sphere where it's all about money and not your long term well being ( think of all the diets book). Fasting is how our body were created to survive since there was sever a way to know where your next meal was coming from 10 000 years ago. Food is available anywhere not but our bodies are still the same.

Fasting is not easy since it requires a radical shift in thinking. But if you're a member of this forum that you're already thinking out of the box on the dating aspect for the most part. All that is left is to get out of the diet business once and for all my RVF members!! Weight been going up and down for 17 years, well not anymore with intermittant fasting!!! Well by my 28th birthday I'll finally be able to completely see my... hehe you know!!

[Hades]

(05-29-2013 03:01 AM)dog24 Wrote:  

hades you seem to know your stuff, how can anyone not be consuming enough fat on keto? every food i ate during that time had plenty of fats in it i.e meat, eggs... are there guys who eat chicken.breast all day? also ive never heard of gyno or metabolic damage caused by the diet, got some more info on this?

I'll put this into perspective for you - if you're my size (6' 1", 210#) your basal metabolic rate is roughly 2000 kcal per day. If your activity level is pretty high, you would need 3500 kcal to prevent weight loss.

If you check with that calculator I posted, on a solid keto diet you would need roughly 260 grams of fat per day to maintain weight or else you're going to drop, that's like ~9 ounces or more than two whole sticks of butter. That's not fat that you'd drizzle on your food, that's fat you have to ingest. That's why it's easy not to eat enough fat if you're eating lean cuts, you're going to have to literally fry steaks and vegetables in butter and eat cheeses that are 50-60% fat content. Might have to make shakes too.

The Eskimo had to gnaw on handfuls of blubber to get by and would even skip eating if there was no blubber and the only food to be had was lean meat. The alternative (eating only lean protein) brought on the shitting sickness.

[Kieran]

Regarding re-feeds, I find that when I start getting really lean, I need to re-feed far more than once per week. I usually refeed by doubling carb intake on my three hardest training days, and try to get the bulk of those carbs before and after my training sessions. I pretty much maintain about 6-7% bodyfat year round with this approach (note this is easier for me than with somebody with a lot of muscle mass because I only have to maintain a relatively low lean body mass due to needing to fit into a weight category that is light for my height).

I've noticed this with a lot of people though, that the leaner they are, the more carbs they can eat. A pro boxer, who was probably one of the leanest people I've ever seen, that I stayed in the same camp with in BKK used to eat bags of sticky rice and cans of coke on top of his regular meals just to get the carbs he needed.

[kbell]

Omega 3 should not be the majority your fat intake. At most 10%. Saturate fats and mono fats are healthier to eat in large amounts since they do NOT oxidize like PUFA (poly unsaturate fats) do.

[renotime]

Sleep like a motherfucker. We are talking totally dark room for at least 8 hours a night.

This is anecdotal evidence, but every time I have switched to a Paleo diet cold turkey my energy lives are shit at first.

I guess that it takes awhile for the body to process running on carbs to running on fats.

Might try eating some avocados for breakfast.

[Kuhn]

I would look into Carb Backloading - CBL.
The program was created by John keifer.
I've been following his program for two months and have seen great results thus far. Fat loss and muscle gain.
The diet promotes carb timing combined with intermittent fasting.

Short video outlining the key points of the diet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KflcY1LQiZo

[gamepadawan]

you need to give it time or increase fats, probably both, planned refeeds are also a must and refeeds mean starches not pizza buffets

[TheCaptainPower]

The funny thing is the best bodybuilder of all time (Arnold), didn't do any of these diets. Back then they just worked out like beasts...

I wouldn't worry about any of this stuff until you are in good shape...

[RichieP]

-Eat carbs sometimes, you could have some after every workout, or just once every 2-3 days. Make it rice or sweet potatoes not wheat/grains. Agree with the sex-drive thing, they make a difference

-Coconut oil does wonders for mental energy and fatigue. Try a tablespoon after each meal, then ramp it down slowly. It got me through the transition to paleo, back when I'd get faint and weak from being non-fat-adapted.

-the "Protein Sparing Modified Fast" is awesome for shredding fat in 2-3 weeks while maintaining muscle-mass. Do it after you're fat-adapted though. It's basically a huge calorie deficit where you just eat chicken/leafy greens and some supplements, and you keep lifting (but no other exercise). It's dietary liposuction, haha.

[AlbertoDelMuerto]

What does your macros look like?

[Hades]

(05-31-2013 10:13 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

The funny thing is the best bodybuilder of all time (Arnold), didn't do any of these diets. Back then they just worked out like beasts...

I wouldn't worry about any of this stuff until you are in good shape...

Sure he did. His biography talked about how he did a low carb diet to cut fat and get shredded. He was already a serious bodybuilder and won many contests by then, but low carb took him to the next level.

[kbell]

He also was on steroids as well. And his diet was probably pretty strict regardless of what method he used.

[Cho]

4 weeks ago I started a high protein diet which was:

Breakfast: PHD Diet whey shake + t6 fat burner

Lunch: 2 chicken breasts

Dinner: 2 chicken breasts/steak/pork

60 mins on bike at the gym followed by some press ups, dips, negative pull ups (couldn't manage pull ups at the time) and sit ups (at the gym 5 days a week) then I had another phd diet whey shake after workout. I lost 9kg in first 3 weeks then stopped the t6 fat burners cause they started making me feel dodgy and was getting pains in my chest, then switched my shake to diet fx cause it has caffeine in it to compensate for the fat burners but weren't as good and only lost another 3kg in 4th week and constantly felt tired. So i lost 12kg in 4 weeks. I'm gonna stop very shortly and start a different routine because the calorie deficit diet and lack of energy is too much. I managed my first pull up the 2nd day of my 4th week able to do 3 in a row now .

[Sanblz33]

IMO a better option for the OP is for him to go on a carb cycling regimen. You would go low carbs 5 days & have 2 high carb days to replenish your glycogen stores.

[Kieran]

Charles Poliquin has a pretty good carb cycling system that worked well for me in the past, a quick google should bring it up.

[Sebastian]

why do you cut carbs? have you been eating excessive amount of carbs? or are you entering a competition?

I eat rice 3 times a day but I am skinny. oh well, asians are born to be skinny right....lol