[hydrogonian]

The people propose Rule 69 to the committee. The contents of Rule 69 are as follows:

Any sexual act with a Pro or "Semi-Pro" will never be counted toward a full flag. The rule doesn't recognize whether or not she has taken money from the player for the sexual act, but only if she takes or has taken money from anyone, at anytime, for sex.

The rule also recognizes that there is an exchange of non-monetary value for sex in many cases. Therefore, the exchange of cash money for sex, at any time in the womans life, will be used as the sole qualifying act that determines the difference between her being a pro or a non-pro.

If a woman has never taken money for sex, but regularly takes gifts or travel expenses in return for sex, than she shall be considered a non-pro. If the same woman has taken money in the past, but is no longer taking money for sex, than she will be considered either a pro or a semi-pro.

While the committee shall recognize the technicality of the sexual act with a Pro or Semi-Pro from the country in question, through the award of a half-flag honor, the rule states that only sex with true non-pros is worthy of the award of a full flag. Furthermore, at no time shall two half flags equal a full flag.

The people believe that passage of Bill 69 will make the game both more honest and interesting...

[mlucasone]

In my perspective, paying counts as a flag. I've never paid before, but I want to do it once I can travel. I justify this decision. To sleep with a chick you invest either time or money. By working hard at game you invest time and effort, and by paying for sex you invest only money and is a sure thing, unlike game. What is the difference between investing time than investing money? Besides, prostitutes are generally hotter and have some particular skills. Just gotta be safe.

I'm just sharing my perspective. I'm not starting a debate on such a subjective topic

[hydrogonian]

(07-07-2010 09:37 PM)mlucasone Wrote:  

What is the difference between investing time than investing money?

Pride and skill.

The flag thing is a game within the game, no?

[Entropy4]

I've done both -- paid a pro and talked a semi-pro into not charging me. Paying shouldn't be a flag and I don't count them towards my flag count. But NOT paying a girl who is semi-pro SHOULD count. I feel like you don't understand until you visit some of these countries, but talking a semi-pro (or pro) into not charging you anything definitely takes skill and persistence -- especially if she's smoking hot and not some slum rat.

Flags are another form of your "scorecard." Your scorecard is based on your level of international game, not how much money you can throw around.

[Roosh]

I don't see how paying should count as a flag.
I don't see how paying for a broad should even count as a notch.

[OGNorCal707]

(07-07-2010 10:24 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I don't see how paying should count as a flag.
I don't see how paying for a broad should even count as a notch.

Agreed.

[Luckystar]

It s a gray area.

Game is subjective. For example, a lot of guys are lying and decieving to get laid. It's as unethnical as paying for play, but both are ends to a means.

We lie and decieve to be more efficient. We pay to be more efficient. I don't practice pay for play but it makes sense for some people. Maybe I ve been spoiled, but after enjoying a lot attractive women over time I ve become difficult to impress and less compelled to expend the energy. I find myself often thinking 'ya you re hot, but I ve seen a million hot girls and you re not worth burning a single calorie'. I d almost rather pay at that moment.

Whether it s a flag or a notch, if you feel good about how you got to hittin it, then you can count it. It's up to you to decide.

[InternationalSwagger]

(07-07-2010 10:03 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

I've done both -- paid a pro and talked a semi-pro into not charging me. Paying shouldn't be a flag and I don't count them towards my flag count. But NOT paying a girl who is semi-pro SHOULD count. I feel like you don't understand until you visit some of these countries, but talking a semi-pro (or pro) into not charging you anything definitely takes skill and persistence -- especially if she's smoking hot and not some slum rat.

Flags are another form of your "scorecard." Your scorecard is based on your level of international game, not how much money you can throw around.

AGREED...Shit I know a small percentage of the girls I banged from meeting in clubs and out and about had to be Semi-Pros in Rio, DR, Colombia but they were into me and didnt charge me one-red cent, peso or real! I'll take it. I gamed them just how I game any other chick and I'm sure many of you on this board who are well traveled have done the same.

[Lumiere]

(07-08-2010 12:29 AM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

AGREED...Shit I know a small percentage of the girls I banged from meeting in clubs and out and about had to be Semi-Pros in Rio, DR, Colombia but they were into me and didnt charge me one-red cent, peso or real! I'll take it. I gamed them just how I game any other chick.

Agreed.

hydrogonian's motion is hereby denied.

[Kona]

(07-08-2010 01:20 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  

(07-08-2010 12:29 AM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

AGREED...Shit I know a small percentage of the girls I banged from meeting in clubs and out and about had to be Semi-Pros in Rio, DR, Colombia but they were into me and didnt charge me one-red cent, peso or real! I'll take it. I gamed them just how I game any other chick.

Agreed.

hydrogonian's motion is hereby denied.

I would lose flags if that was the rule.

Sometimes it can be a lot harder to swoop full on pro for no money at all. The 8's and higher can really be hard.

My Brazil flag was a stripper in St. Louis hooking a few nights a week afterwords. She was a 9 and had tons of cash. I never paid her at all. I saw her passport and all kinds of other shit that said she was born in Brazil.

The pro's will lie so for a pro to be a flag you need to see evidence that she's from where she says she is.

Aloha!

[Quasi]

Yeah I knew you only could get it once was just a manner of speaking "flag rules" hehe right .. why do I get the same feeling like trading car cards in school..

Damn reminds me Im sitting besides this gorgeous french post.doc on this office right now... hmm

[Entropy4]

And whoever posted saying the easiest ways to get flags is by living in a big American city is right. I've got dates set up this week with an Armenian and Ukrainian.

I'm starting to think that maybe it should only count if you're traveling. It's too easy to just look for foreign chicks when I'm home.

[Lumiere]

actually the easiest way is to live in London

Most cosmopolitan city in the world

Both gateway to Europe for the rest of the world and swarming with honeys from the rest of the continent

[playa_with_a_passport]

(07-08-2010 12:29 AM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

(07-07-2010 10:03 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

I've done both -- paid a pro and talked a semi-pro into not charging me. Paying shouldn't be a flag and I don't count them towards my flag count. But NOT paying a girl who is semi-pro SHOULD count. I feel like you don't understand until you visit some of these countries, but talking a semi-pro (or pro) into not charging you anything definitely takes skill and persistence -- especially if she's smoking hot and not some slum rat.

Flags are another form of your "scorecard." Your scorecard is based on your level of international game, not how much money you can throw around.

AGREED...Shit I know a small percentage of the girls I banged from meeting in clubs and out and about had to be Semi-Pros in Rio, DR, Colombia but they were into me and didnt charge me one-red cent, peso or real! I'll take it. I gamed them just how I game any other chick and I'm sure many of you on this board who are well traveled have done the same.

Also, if you really get technical about it, fucking a pro or a semi pro for free is almost as if she paid you for fucking her because of "opportunity cost." in other words, the time she spent fucking for you for free is time she could have spend fucking for $$$. Thus, if a chick charges $100 bucks a pop and you "shore" her, she just "paid" $100 bucks for some dick. If this is not example of true Game, I don't know what else is.

[Luckystar]

(07-08-2010 10:55 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

(07-08-2010 12:29 AM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

(07-07-2010 10:03 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

I've done both -- paid a pro and talked a semi-pro into not charging me. Paying shouldn't be a flag and I don't count them towards my flag count. But NOT paying a girl who is semi-pro SHOULD count. I feel like you don't understand until you visit some of these countries, but talking a semi-pro (or pro) into not charging you anything definitely takes skill and persistence -- especially if she's smoking hot and not some slum rat.

Flags are another form of your "scorecard." Your scorecard is based on your level of international game, not how much money you can throw around.

AGREED...Shit I know a small percentage of the girls I banged from meeting in clubs and out and about had to be Semi-Pros in Rio, DR, Colombia but they were into me and didnt charge me one-red cent, peso or real! I'll take it. I gamed them just how I game any other chick and I'm sure many of you on this board who are well traveled have done the same.

Also, if you really get technical about it, fucking a pro or a semi pro for free is almost as if she paid you for fucking her because of "opportunity cost." in other words, the time she spent fucking for you for free is time she could have spend fucking for $$$. Thus, if a chick charges $100 bucks a pop and you "shore" her, she just "paid" $100 bucks for some dick. If this is not example of true Game, I don't know what else is.

Good point

[hydrogonian]

(07-08-2010 01:20 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  

(07-08-2010 12:29 AM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

AGREED...Shit I know a small percentage of the girls I banged from meeting in clubs and out and about had to be Semi-Pros in Rio, DR, Colombia but they were into me and didnt charge me one-red cent, peso or real! I'll take it. I gamed them just how I game any other chick.

Agreed.

hydrogonian's motion is hereby denied.

well, that would be disagreeing to one part of the rule (that pros shouldn't be counted even if you don't pay them), but your going to throw the whole rule out?

lol...you guys can count pros that you pay, but this is how I look at it. If your just counting 'flags' to yourself, then go ahead and count any girl that you pay into your personal count. Who cares, as its for you, and you did bang a woman from the country in question, even if any guy on the planet with the same cash could have done the same (zero skill).

However, when you start to list your flags to other guys, then it becomes more of a group game/competition. Whether you admit it or not, your asking for respect for your flag count. Why should you gain respect for hookers? If you do that, then the 300 lb guy next to you on he bar stool, with zero social skills, could gain more flags than you. You want him as your peer? Or, you could run in the league with guys who only count non-pros, which take considerably more skill to land, and have them as the judge of your flag count and your peers.

Case in point. Ever try to bang a true non-pro in Thailand vs a semi-pro or pro? Go bang a hi-so girl and then come back and brag about your Thailand flag. It'll get you a lot more respect, as we knew that it took some skill to get, than bragging that you got laid on your first night by a pro or semi-pro. Banging a hi so girl would mean that you conquered the culture through skill, rather than bought your way in because the girl needs the money or other benefits to help her get through her super poor and shitty life.

This is how I look at pros or semi pros that you "shore" without paying them. In most instances, you will still pay them with something non-monetary. They still believe that they are getting paid to be with you, and therefore most guys that aren't hideous could still do the same as you. Additionally, former semi-pros or pros have thrown out any cultural boundaries to casual sex or sex with foreigners a long time ago, and so even if you aren't paying them they are still way easier than a normal girl of that country. Therefore, you really didnt conquer the normal cultural boundary through your PUA skill, but found a girl that operates in the moral realm of hookers.

Not to take this all too seriously, but just thought I'd clarify...

[thegmanifesto]

A flag is a flag no matter how you get it.

She paid you, you paid her (with time, flowers, chocolates, money, drugs, puppy dogs, drinks, Starwood Points etc), doesn't matter.

Did you swoop her?

If yes, then its a flag.

[hydrogonian]

(07-08-2010 11:10 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

She paid you, you paid her (with time, flowers, chocolates, money, drugs, puppy dogs, drinks, Starwood Points etc).

And then there's pimp game where she pays you with dinner, gifts, time, sex, etc...and all you give her in return is your cock.

And even still, she begs for it, and you give the cock and keep it from her, at your discretion.

All I'm asking is if skill should be a factor, at all, in the award of a flag?

Should there be a respect difference between a 'John' and a Pimp? After all, this board is about being a pimp, right?

If you guys say no, then Ill accept it. I'm just asking the questions.

[mlucasone]

I would say this forum is about enjoying life in the spectrum of having consensual sex with hot females. Some people have psychological inhibitors that prevent them from enjoying sex from a hot chick that requires payment for her services. It is understandable to want a girl to truly like the person you are or appear to be and want to have sex with you for only those reasons (game). There is pride in that because you know she accepts you and likes you. I, on the other hand, get enjoyment from being accepted as well as paying for quality sex. Although I have never paid for sex, it is fantasy of mine to participate in one of those happy ending massages I've heard about. I've also seen some videos...

[InternationalSwagger]

Truth be told everyone on this board actually falls between a John and a Pimp
No one on this board is pimping...

"A pimp is an agent for prostitutes who lives off their earnings. Pimping is illegal in most countries. The majority of pimps are men. A woman who runs a brothel is known as a madam. The pimp-prostitute relationship can be abusive, with the pimp using techniques such as psychological intimidation, manipulation and physical force to control the prostitutes he sends out to work.[1] Pimps are known under the law as procurers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp

But If your talking about Players then YES we have some bonafide macks on here who are true to the game and themselves by controlling the women they deal with sexually, monetarily and emotionally and not the other way around by keeping it 100% with the opposite sex.

[Rocco81]

Yeah Im with most of you guys....paying = Bullshit. I get so sick of sexmongers talking about all the ass they got in Cartegena coming to find out its all payed for "Yeah Colombianas love my fat, white socks with sandals, hawaiin shirt wearing ass..." yeah right

ISW - How you know there are no real pimps? Speaketh for thine self....

[hydrogonian]

(07-08-2010 01:31 PM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

Truth be told everyone on this board actually falls between a John and a Pimp
No one on this board is pimping...

I have run pimp game, long term (over 6 months), with several girls. No bullshit. If I were to document what Ive received in the way of gifts, dinners and cash, you'd be surprised. And I'm not a classically good looking guy (and not a bad looking guy, just an average white guy). Most people underestimate me, when they first see me, in a variety of ways. I just talk well, and fuck them well.

(07-08-2010 01:31 PM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

"A pimp is an agent for prostitutes who lives off their earnings. Pimping is illegal in most countries. The majority of pimps are men. A woman who runs a brothel is known as a madam. The pimp-prostitute relationship can be abusive, with the pimp using techniques such as psychological intimidation, manipulation and physical force to control the prostitutes he sends out to work.[1] Pimps are known under the law as procurers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp

Different from "pimp game". When it comes to things outside the the realm of accepted social behavior, Wikipedia is not the be all end all of information.

Pimp game is when she pays you for sex, consistently, in some way other than sexual reciprocity. Essentially switching the most common male/female dynamic of the man paying for sex. And I'm not talking about an equal exchange, but the woman doing almost all of the paying.

But yes, most guys here, including myself on average, fall somewhere between being a pimp and a John. Im just saying that if you fall into the role of being a John, with a former professional, then maybe you are a John. But if you think the pimp/John balance is good enough, then count that flag. This flag game requires personal honesty anyway. No one is checking up on your flags.

Also, I used to get a kick out of pimp game, but now I like making women happy through my efforts, instead of just taking. As long as she doesn't take advantage and try to run pimp game on me... Thats the danger of paying, once you do it, it sets the frame of the realtionship in a lot of ways...

[InternationalSwagger]

(07-08-2010 02:22 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Yeah Im with most of you guys....paying = Bullshit. I get so sick of sexmongers talking about all the ass they got in Cartegena coming to find out its all payed for "Yeah Colombianas love my fat, white socks with sandals, hawaiin shirt wearing ass..." yeah right

ISW - How you know there are no real pimps? Speaketh for thine self....

There are no real pimps..Pimp Game Is what I administer but REAL PIMPS here? C'mon Son!

[InternationalSwagger]

(07-08-2010 02:36 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(07-08-2010 01:31 PM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

Truth be told everyone on this board actually falls between a John and a Pimp
No one on this board is pimping...

I have run pimp game, long term (over 6 months), with several girls. No bullshit. If I were to document what Ive received, you'd be surprised. And I'm not a classically good looking guy (and not a bad looking guy, just an average white guy). Most people underestimate me, when they first see me, in a variety of ways. I just talk well, and fuck them well.

(07-08-2010 01:31 PM)InternationalSwagger Wrote:  

"A pimp is an agent for prostitutes who lives off their earnings. Pimping is illegal in most countries. The majority of pimps are men. A woman who runs a brothel is known as a madam. The pimp-prostitute relationship can be abusive, with the pimp using techniques such as psychological intimidation, manipulation and physical force to control the prostitutes he sends out to work.[1] Pimps are known under the law as procurers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp

Different from "pimp game". When it comes to things outside the the realm of accepted social behavior, Wikipedia is not the be all end all of information.

Pimp game is when she pays you for sex, consistently, in some way other than sexual reciprocity. Essentially switching the most common male/female dynamic of the man paying for sex. And I'm not talking about an equal exchange, but the woman doing almost all of the paying.

But yes, most guys here, including myself on average, fall somewhere between being a pimp and a John. Im just saying that if you fall into the role of being a John, with a former professional, then maybe you are a John. But if you think the pimp/John balance is good enough, then count that flag. This flag game requires personal honesty anyway. No one is checking up on your flags.

Right on Hydorian...For me Pimp/Player Game is all I know...It's all I live for...All 40 of my flags are legit...headed to Brasilia, Brazil tonight for the weekend and even though I alredy have Brazilian Flags from Rio, Recife and Fortaleza I hope to add Brasilia withing my sub-genre of Brazil flags.. Anyone with any tips get at me!

[thegmanifesto]

"I have run pimp game, long term (over 6 months), with several girls. No bullshit. If I were to document what Ive received in the way of gifts, dinners and cash, you'd be surprised."

Hydro, you are getting your "Games" mixed up.

That is Gigolo Game.

Pimp Game or more correctly "The Game" (before the pickup artists took over the term) is when a girl pays you that has swooped other guys.