[Giovonny]

(05-24-2010 04:01 PM)DrArete Wrote:  

Your reply doesn't merit a detailed response. I would just point out that you rationalize your own behavior by saying b-b-b-but other people do it, which is practically the Webster definition of immaturity.

Good point.

I DO think its "okay" to get hookers because I see rich, famous, powerful men do it. In fact, I see men from all classes and cultures do it. Also, its the "worlds oldest profession".

Because of all these things, I think its "okay".

Is that an immature way to rationalize it ? Maybe it is.

I do look to older, wiser, and/or successful men for examples on how to live my life.

I study them because I know I have alot more maturing, growing, and learning to do.

Please continue to help me discover my flaws and weaknesses. And I'm not saying that to be a smart-ass.

We all need challenges and criticism to help us grow stronger.

[kerouac]

There are plenty of guys who are good with women who also happen to happen to visit a prostitute every now and then. There are some guys who see a prostitute when they just aren't in the mood that day to deal with picking up a girl and just want to get laid. There are guys who don't want to deal with a mistress because they have a girlfriend or a wife, but want something quick and fresh (in their minds). There are guys who want a completely emotionless release without the regret that might come from picking up a girl and just leaving her.

There are many reasons guys who are already good with the ladies go to prostitutes. Whether you accept that as "the" PUA way or whatever is your business, but I don't see what you are trying to get at here besides being a troll.

[HD668B]

I grow up in a "bad" neighborhood so hookers were readily available when I was in my teens. I always had great time, fucking everywhere in the house with all lights on, they arent shy at all like a girl who just met you. I was alwasy rock hard too. Plus its such a deliverance knowing that you wont have to deal with her the next day (or her friends if shes from a social circle).
Still I have to admit that free food always taste better...

[DrArete]

(05-24-2010 05:07 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(05-24-2010 04:01 PM)DrArete Wrote:  

Your reply doesn't merit a detailed response. I would just point out that you rationalize your own behavior by saying b-b-b-but other people do it, which is practically the Webster definition of immaturity.

Good point.

I DO think its "okay" to get hookers because I see rich, famous, powerful men do it. In fact, I see men from all classes and cultures do it. Also, its the "worlds oldest profession".

Because of all these things, I think its "okay".

Is that an immature way to rationalize it ? Maybe it is.

I do look to older, wiser, and/or successful men for examples on how to live my life.

I study them because I know I have alot more maturing, growing, and learning to do.

Please continue to help me discover my flaws and weaknesses. And I'm not saying that to be a smart-ass.

We all need challenges and criticism to help us grow stronger.

I wasn't trying to be too harsh, I just have a strong opinion on the sex trade.

To be perfectly fair and honest, I did it a couple times, and learned from my experiences.

The last time was just awful. About a decade ago, I was in Paraguay, staying at a nice hotel, got an attractive woman from a girl bar, hired her for four hours back to my room. Lots of wine and such ensued, and then during a rest we got to talking, and I was deeply moved by her story. She was young and like 99.999% of people in Latin America permanently poor with no breaks, and she had been married. What happened? One day, husband coming back from work after getting his meager monthly pay, some young punks wanted his money, he refused, and they cut his throat. She was left with two twin daughters to raise. She said she started to work as a hooker because there was no other option for her, and she didn't like it, but that she needed to buy clothes for her daughters and sometimes treat them to something like McDonalds, which they liked.

I just felt so incredibly sad and empty, that I never wanted to feel that way again. It sounds strange, but it was probably over a year before I even looked at porn again (private pics taken of willing girlfriends not included). Even looking at whatever porn, I would start to think, who is that person, what is her story, why is she doing this.

That doesn't even scratch the surface of the worst elements of the sex trade. Roosh made an excellent movie recommendation lately, Lilya 4Ever. I suggest you download it, and watch it, and then see if it still seems like fun to be a part of the demand that creates that supply.

[DrArete]

(05-24-2010 05:07 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(05-24-2010 04:01 PM)DrArete Wrote:  

Your reply doesn't merit a detailed response. I would just point out that you rationalize your own behavior by saying b-b-b-but other people do it, which is practically the Webster definition of immaturity.

Good point.

I DO think its "okay" to get hookers because I see rich, famous, powerful men do it. In fact, I see men from all classes and cultures do it. Also, its the "worlds oldest profession".

Because of all these things, I think its "okay".

Is that an immature way to rationalize it ? Maybe it is.

I do look to older, wiser, and/or successful men for examples on how to live my life.

I study them because I know I have alot more maturing, growing, and learning to do.

Please continue to help me discover my flaws and weaknesses. And I'm not saying that to be a smart-ass.

We all need challenges and criticism to help us grow stronger.

Actually, I think the world's oldest profession is agriculture (not hunting, because only a VERY small percentage of the worlds population lives just from that, so profession is basically extinct).

[wolf]

Some people do prostitution because they have no choice, others do it for money. The choice is yours whether you want to do the prostitute. The rest of the stuff I was going to say was said already( Convenience, hotter than gf, and etc).

[exe]

(05-25-2010 06:40 AM)DrArete Wrote:  

The last time was just awful. About a decade ago, I was in Paraguay, staying at a nice hotel, got an attractive woman from a girl bar, hired her for four hours back to my room. Lots of wine and such ensued, and then during a rest we got to talking, and I was deeply moved by her story. She was young and like 99.999% of people in Latin America permanently poor with no breaks, and she had been married. What happened? One day, husband coming back from work after getting his meager monthly pay, some young punks wanted his money, he refused, and they cut his throat. She was left with two twin daughters to raise. She said she started to work as a hooker because there was no other option for her, and she didn't like it, but that she needed to buy clothes for her daughters and sometimes treat them to something like McDonalds, which they liked.

I just felt so incredibly sad and empty, that I never wanted to feel that way again. It sounds strange, but it was probably over a year before I even looked at porn again (private pics taken of willing girlfriends not included). Even looking at whatever porn, I would start to think, who is that person, what is her story, why is she doing this.

Sounds like you´re a sensitive little softie. Life is tough for a lot of people. Deal. If you really feel strongly about it, you aren´t you putting real effort into a crusade to end prostitution: create an organization or foundation, start a marketing campaign, donate to organizations that are already doing this, send support money to this girl, go to the P4P forums and start evangelizing there...have you done any of this? If not, stop your whining here.

I was in Paraguay several weeks ago and had a fun & memorable experience with the second hottest (and super sweet) working girl I´ve banged in my six month trip. She was 19 and also had a kid. After banging her, we were cuddling in bed and we started talking about her situation and I just looked her in the eyes and said "Vida es dura" and she said "Si" and just melted into my arms. At this point, I could have turned into "sensitive guy" but decided to make the vibe upbeat instead and talked about hanging out and doing fun things like going to the lake at San Bernardino, etc. and she took my frame and I avoided going into sad telenovela vibe.

Quote:

be a part of the demand that creates that supply.

Do you buy gas? If so, you´re part of the demand that created the latest oil spill in the Gulf. Have you bought Nike products? If so, you´re part of the demand that has kids working in sweat shops in SouthEast Asia. I could go on & on..quit trying to give us a guilt trip about paying for sex. This guilt trip is the same as the guilt trip when women use the word "slut" against each other and not just sexually liberated women. It´s totally BS and unfair but it´s so socially powerful that women do crazy things to avoid it - like withholding sex even if they want it.

On Saturday, I had sex with a pretty Argentinean pro. It cost me all of 20 pesos. I PAID FOR SEX.

Yesterday, I had a D2 with a pretty (and a bit slutty, I might add) 18 yr old Argentinean girl. I meet her in a small town about an hour and a half away from the town that I was staying at. I knew it was solid as she answered her phone each time I called and there was solid interest in her voice when I arranged the meet. When I got there, she asked what I wanted to do and I told her I wanted to eat first. Then later during lunch, she asked which hotel I was staying at. Basically, it was on. I just needed to pay for a hotel room & buy some drinks to loosen her up (she mentioned wanting to drink). I didn´t feel like springing for the cost of the room & drinks and told her that I didn´t have a hotel in the town and everything went nowhere from there. Now, if I had sprung for the hotel room & drinks, not to mention the bus fare (total cost of around 150-200 pesos) and my entire afternoon, are you going to tell me I didn´t pay for sex?

[exe]

(05-25-2010 06:43 AM)DrArete Wrote:  

Actually, I think the world's oldest profession is agriculture (not hunting, because only a VERY small percentage of the worlds population lives just from that, so profession is basically extinct).

You´re one hell of a scholar and critical thinker, jajaja. Whether a profession is extinct or not has nothing to do whether it is/was the oldest profession. And if you know anything about agriculture, it takes months to harvest something to eat as opposed to hunting, which will give you something to eat in days or even hours. And no, foraging is not agriculture.

[DrArete]

(05-25-2010 11:26 AM)EndGame Wrote:  

(05-25-2010 06:40 AM)DrArete Wrote:  

Sounds like you´re a sensitive little softie. Life is tough for a lot of people. Deal. If you really feel strongly about it, you aren´t you putting real effort into a crusade to end prostitution: create an organization or foundation, start a marketing campaign, donate to organizations that are already doing this, send support money to this girl, go to the P4P forums and start evangelizing there...have you done any of this? If not, stop your whining here.

I was in Paraguay several weeks ago and had a fun & memorable experience with the second hottest (and super sweet) working girl I´ve banged in my six month trip. She was 19 and also had a kid. After banging her, we were cuddling in bed and we started talking about her situation and I just looked her in the eyes and said "Vida es dura" and she said "Si" and just melted into my arms. At this point, I could have turned into "sensitive guy" but decided to make the vibe upbeat instead and talked about hanging out and doing fun things like going to the lake at San Bernardino, etc. and she took my frame and I avoided going into sad telenovela vibe.

Quote:

be a part of the demand that creates that supply.

Do you buy gas? If so, you´re part of the demand that created the latest oil spill in the Gulf. Have you bought Nike products? If so, you´re part of the demand that has kids working in sweat shops in SouthEast Asia. I could go on & on..quit trying to give us a guilt trip about paying for sex. This guilt trip is the same as the guilt trip when women use the word "slut" against each other and not just sexually liberated women. It´s totally BS and unfair but it´s so socially powerful that women do crazy things to avoid it - like withholding sex even if they want it.

On Saturday, I had sex with a pretty Argentinean pro. It cost me all of 20 pesos. I PAID FOR SEX.

Yesterday, I had a D2 with a pretty (and a bit slutty, I might add) 18 yr old Argentinean girl. I meet her in a small town about an hour and a half away from the town that I was staying at. I knew it was solid as she answered her phone each time I called and there was solid interest in her voice when I arranged the meet. When I got there, she asked what I wanted to do and I told her I wanted to eat first. Then later during lunch, she asked which hotel I was staying at. Basically, it was on. I just needed to pay for a hotel room & buy some drinks to loosen her up (she mentioned wanting to drink). I didn´t feel like springing for the cost of the room & drinks and told her that I didn´t have a hotel in the town and everything went nowhere from there. Now, if I had sprung for the hotel room & drinks, not to mention the bus fare (total cost of around 150-200 pesos) and my entire afternoon, are you going to tell me I didn´t pay for sex?

You aren't very intelligent, which was obvious from the beginning of your post. Your weakness lead you to open with an insult.
Also, you know nothing at all about me, which makes your ignorance all the more disconcerting.
If it matters, I gave the woman two one hundred dollar bills on top of what her normal fee was (I assumed that the club she worked at kept most of that).
I don't even know anything about "P4P Forums," although it appears you do. That seems incredibly sad and creepy to me, I picture you and a bunch of social rejects discussing the finer points of paying 12 year old girls for sex in the Philippines.
I have also spent significant amounts of time volunteering in AIDs prevention programs in Brazil and with a group that helps victims of sexual slavery in southern Spain obtain nationality and adapt to a normal life. These experiences were a large part of what has inspired me to go back to the USA and study medicine, as I really enjoy the work.
Also, you, like many people with limited intelligence, confuse correlation with causation.
Paying a woman for sex, if a direct cause of exploitation and misery (unless you think she really enjoys your 3 inches of caucasian thunder), and is not thinking desperately of how much longer she has to put up with you before she can go puke in the street and attempt to forget.
Buying gas is correlated with the BP oil spill, but it does not cause it. Incompetence and a failure to enforce existing laws did.
Also, the demand for gasoline is inelastic - those living in western societies must purchase it. However, there is no similar need to purchase sex, unless you are a fat 80 yr old diabetic in a wheelchair, or a fool, take your pick.
Also, comparing the perception of prostitution as promoting human suffering to women being made to feel guilty about being sluts is one of the darkest windows into a disturbed mine I have come across in a long time. You and your friends on the "P4P Forums" must consider yourselves honest to goodness incarnations of Rosa Parks.
I was intending to try and finish my comment on a conciliatory note, and try and bridge the gap, since the less I ridicule you, the more likely it is that you will think for a minute. Then, I got to the last part of your screed, where you proudly talk of paying just over 5 USD to an Argentinian hooker, and then go on to say that you missed out on drinks and a hotel session with a willing 18 yr old you were on a date with because you were too cheap to pay 51 USD, and also worried about bus fare...well, that is just pathetic. I actually laughed when I got to that part, so thank you for brightening my day.

[exe]

(05-25-2010 11:54 AM)DrArete Wrote:  

(05-25-2010 11:26 AM)EndGame Wrote:  

Sounds like you´re a sensitive little softie. Life is tough for a lot of people. Deal. If you really feel strongly about it, you aren´t you putting real effort into a crusade to end prostitution: create an organization or foundation, start a marketing campaign, donate to organizations that are already doing this, send support money to this girl, go to the P4P forums and start evangelizing there...have you done any of this? If not, stop your whining here.

I was in Paraguay several weeks ago and had a fun & memorable experience with the second hottest (and super sweet) working girl I´ve banged in my six month trip. She was 19 and also had a kid. After banging her, we were cuddling in bed and we started talking about her situation and I just looked her in the eyes and said "Vida es dura" and she said "Si" and just melted into my arms. At this point, I could have turned into "sensitive guy" but decided to make the vibe upbeat instead and talked about hanging out and doing fun things like going to the lake at San Bernardino, etc. and she took my frame and I avoided going into sad telenovela vibe.

Quote:

be a part of the demand that creates that supply.

Do you buy gas? If so, you´re part of the demand that created the latest oil spill in the Gulf. Have you bought Nike products? If so, you´re part of the demand that has kids working in sweat shops in SouthEast Asia. I could go on & on..quit trying to give us a guilt trip about paying for sex. This guilt trip is the same as the guilt trip when women use the word "slut" against each other and not just sexually liberated women. It´s totally BS and unfair but it´s so socially powerful that women do crazy things to avoid it - like withholding sex even if they want it.

On Saturday, I had sex with a pretty Argentinean pro. It cost me all of 20 pesos. I PAID FOR SEX.

Yesterday, I had a D2 with a pretty (and a bit slutty, I might add) 18 yr old Argentinean girl. I meet her in a small town about an hour and a half away from the town that I was staying at. I knew it was solid as she answered her phone each time I called and there was solid interest in her voice when I arranged the meet. When I got there, she asked what I wanted to do and I told her I wanted to eat first. Then later during lunch, she asked which hotel I was staying at. Basically, it was on. I just needed to pay for a hotel room & buy some drinks to loosen her up (she mentioned wanting to drink). I didn´t feel like springing for the cost of the room & drinks and told her that I didn´t have a hotel in the town and everything went nowhere from there. Now, if I had sprung for the hotel room & drinks, not to mention the bus fare (total cost of around 150-200 pesos) and my entire afternoon, are you going to tell me I didn´t pay for sex?

You aren't very intelligent, which was obvious from the beginning of your post. Your weakness lead you to open with an insult.
[/quote]

(05-21-2010 04:15 PM)DrArete Wrote:  

So many of the people posting on this forum are completely FOS.

I am stunned at the number of internet millionaires who engage in group sex with Brazilian girls while managing an active real estate portfolio, and find time to post here.

Who first came in here and opened with insults?

Quote:

Also, you know nothing at all about me.

I already know enough about you. You´re a beta KJ jerk-off or a feminist butch dike. Or a feminist butch dike transvestite beta KJ jerk-off. jajaja

Quote:

I don't even know anything about "P4P Forums," although it appears you do. That seems incredibly sad and creepy to me, I picture you and a bunch of social rejects discussing the finer points of paying 12 year old girls for sex in the Philippines.

Hmmm, who said anything about 12 yr old girls in the Philipines? Sounds like you´re the social reject having sex with these underage girls. Jajaja

Quote:

Paying a woman for sex, if a direct cause of exploitation and misery (unless you think she really enjoys your 3 inches of caucasian thunder), and is not thinking desperately of how much longer she has to put up with you before she can go puke in the street and attempt to forget.

When I asked her if she wanted to hang out outside of her work, and her positive reaction, along with her asking for my email & number - so that´s how she shows that she is attempting to forget about me? Jajaja

Quote:

Then, I got to the last part of your screed, where you proudly talk of paying just over 5 USD to an Argentinian hooker, and then go on to say that you missed out on drinks and a hotel session with a willing 18 yr old you were on a date with because you were too cheap to pay 51 USD, and also worried about bus fare...well, that is just pathetic. I actually laughed when I got to that part, so thank you for brightening my day.

I´m a budget traveler - and proud of doing it on a shoestring. And this goes back to the whole stigma of "paying for it" which is a social control mechanism like the "slut" word. There are men smarter than me who figured out that DIRECTLY paying for it is a lot more efficient use of time & money. When I first meet a girl or woman, I pretty much know how much time & money I´d be willing to spend on her. Any more, I drop her. I think it´s also smarter to bring food with you when on the hunt and to not be desperately relying on catching your prey to be able to eat.

When one uses time, money and other resources DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY to get sex, you´re paying for it. When you spent thousands of dollars for a suite at the Wynn so you can mention it when talking to strippers to get them to come to your hotel room, you´re paying for it. When you get run over and killed by a drunk driver after coming home from sarging at the bars, you´re paying for it. When you get beat up in EE or Russia because you went there looking to slay the local women, you´re paying for it. Period.

Quote:

thank you for brightening my day.

No, birdbrain. You´re brightening mine. You served as a vehicle to allow me to say what I´ve been wanting to say. Jajaja

[kerouac]

This thread has reached the point of absolute worthlessness. Perhaps Roosh can lock it, and burn it, so that we may forever forget about its existence?

[clr]

DrArete,

I understand where you are coming from. Also where many of the guys in here are coming from. I agree with both, but I hate to say it, you arent that smart either. (we are all stupid in some areas)

You really HONESTLY think she hasent used that story 100 times to get extra money out of guys? REALLY? I hate to break it to you bro, but good hookers are more like great actresses then anything else. I am a big softie too, its breaks my heart when girls are forced into prostitution. (I once spent a day getting a friends cousin out of a brothel in St Marteen, figuring out what brothel, which side of the island etc, sending police in, I'll also note that I didnt believe the story she told her family, but I never said anything). Yes, that part is horrible, who didnt cheer about the move Taken, awesome movie.

BUT I will also say MOST pro's do it because they want to, they would rather sell their vajay jay's and live better, then work harder and have less. Yes often they have children, but I think much of it is a symptom. They hooked and got pregnant. They dont have a sacred view of sex, go pregnant, no biggie for them to hook.

I hate to break it to you, and I do understand where you are coming from, but you got played bro. I KNOW you did. Its great that you tried to help her, but you would have been better donating your money to a womans abuse shelter or something. I have had many conversations with pro's, sure things are hard where they are at, but its almost always a choice they make. Most have kids, but its a CHOICE they make. They like the lifestyle, of not working, of partying, and fucking and getting paid. Big secret MOST pros that I have seen wont just fuck anyone, MOST have standards.

Fuck I would be a pro, if I only got to fuck hot chicks. Fuck once a week and make a weeks salary! Some are just nymphos and love to fuck(why you can often have pros for free).

I dont care what people do, none of my business, p4p or not. She was a great actress, I guarantee you most of the guys on this forum who have p4p have started getting some sob story like senor "vida es dura" but he nipped it in the bud quickly or she would have tried to lay it on him thick.

my .02

[DrArete]

clr:

I am glad you know exactly what happened even though you weren't there.

Just so you know, I am a cynical bastard and I have heard a lot of stories, been a lot of places, and am not in any way naive. I have dealt with people quite a bit more resourceful than a random hooker in Paraguay.

I also speak spanish with a native level fluency.

Given the circumstances she was credible. She never even hinted at money, and I gave it to her without saying anything as she was already leaving. I would give it an 80% chance her story was true, which is about the greatest probability I give to anything being true unless I have seen it myself



Endgame:

You have no game. Just know that you have reached the point where you turn down real sex with an 18 year old because you didn't want to pay 50 bucks for drinks/hotel/bus. Just sayin', if you weren't into whores, your mind would be in the right place, and you would know that what you did is just not right.

[clr]

After this post I am done, but DrArete, I am sure you are very good at whatever you do. One of my specialties is telling if people are lying, from Body language, eye accessing cues, speech patterns and a dozen other things and even *I* have been tricked by women, we all have.

I am not saying she was not nice, or sweet. Everything she said may still even be true, but one thing I guarantee you, she told you that with the intention of you feeling sorry for her and getting a little extra. I HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH PROS. They really are nice and sweet and all that. They LOVE the nice guys because they can tug at your heart. This is their job/living, this is what they do for work every day. They are VERY VERY good at it.

When I stayed in Cartagena I met a whole bunch of them, it was hard for me to understand how these girls are so sweet, and nice and innocent, yet whores. I had many candid conversations there and in europe with working girls. I majored in Psych so I love trying understand mindsets.

Strippers in the US do the same damn thing. I only dance for this and that, my friend owns 2 strip clubs, its the same stories over and over. Ya got milked. At least you leave the 20% option, I'll give ya respect for that, most guys would think they are 100% right.

[Rocco81]

DrArete makes some very valid points on here...but yes chics are good at lying esp. pro's?

[OGNorCal707]

Damn you guys are a buzz kill, Dr. Arete who gives a fuck if Endgame paid for pro pussy, I don't think he's claiming to be player of the millenium or whatever. Yeah I think we'd all rather pull on our on, rather than the p4p route, but would you rather bang a 5 for free or a 10 for a small fee? Anyways, get off your high horse, both you guys, whether you pay, and those with a "moral" chip on your shoulder, if you got something positive or constructive to say, drop knowledge, otherwise keep it to yourself. Damn, I'm fucking drunk right now, so this may not be the most coherent. I would say I got more respect for a guy who doesn't front about paying, then a guy who fronts about how much pussy he actually doesn't get. I think we can make out, who are the "real people" on these boards.

[AlphaQup2nite]

Plus if you look at it, you pay for time when you go through a pick up. I mean its not like you can go up to a girl, say lets bang, and have everything line up personally. There is no such thing as free sex. I dont do p2p regularly just on the fact that its a pride thing, just like i dont get girls drunk to sleep with them, tho it would up my lay ratio a lot, but at the same time i dont look down people at that. Its a personal choice. Leave it at that.