[Menace]

Found this interesting, but long, video of Dr. Robert Lustig explaining why the way we consume sugar is bad for us. Have not watched the whole thing, but intend to this weekend.

Video is here.

Abstract:

Rates of fructose consumption continue to rise worldwide, and have been linked to rising rates of obesity, type-2 diabetes mellitus, and metabolic syndrome. Elucidation of fructose metabolism in liver and fructose action in brain demonstrate three parallelisms with ethanol. First, hepatic fructose metabolism is similar to ethanol in that by accelerating the process of de novo lipogenesis, both promote hepatic insulin resistance, dyslipidemia, and hepatic steatosis. Second, fructosylation of proteins with resultant superoxide formation can result in inflammation similar to acetaldehyde, an intermediary metabolite of ethanol. Lastly, by stimulating the “hedonic pathway” of the brain both directly and indirectly, fructose creates habituation, and possibly dependence; also paralleling ethanol. On a societal level, the treatment of fructose as a commodity on the open market exhibits similarities to ethanol. Fructose induces alterations in both hepatic metabolism and central nervous system energy signaling, leading to a “vicious cycle” of excessive consumption and disease consistent with metabolic syndrome. These dose-dependent actions of fructose on the liver and on the hedonic pathway of the brain recapitulate the effects of ethanol.

[alecks]

NOOOO WE CANT EAT FRUIT ANYMORE!! FRUIT IS MAKING US FAT!!!

this sounds like complete bullshit to me. No one nutrient can make you "fat".

listen to this.especially around the 5-6 minute mark

[RichieP]

its not fruit thats making americans fat, its the litres of soft drinks and HFCS that's in loads of sweet + packaged foods.

the main thing I took from this video is that sugar is essentially a POISON - it is only metabolised by the liver (all cells in ur body can use glucose, but not fructose), and always causes damage as it's metabolised.


fructose is bad, but not at levels you get from 1-3 pieces of fruit a day. it's bad because sugar = sucrose = glucose + fructose, and sugary diets contain shit tons more sucrose(and thus fructose) than we've evolved to cope with.

basically we should be thinking of sugar like we think of alcohol, i.e. poisonous substance to be limited. It's a different animal from pure carbs/glucose. thats what you should get outa the vid.

[alecks]

http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29...-alarmism/

i would like your input please guys

[MikeCF]

Eat nothing but fruits and vegetables for a week. No starches. No fat. No peanut butter and banana sandwiches.

See how much fat you gain.

It will be zero.

Seriously.

Here is a common sense question for you.

When is the last time you saw a fat person eating a bunch of fruit - and only fruit?

It's not hard to observe what makes people fat. Processed foods and sugary drinks are what's doing it. Ice cream sundaes, too.

Eat all the fruit you want.

Next time someone tells you fruit makes you fat, offer to bet him a grand. You'll only eat fruit. If you gain fat, you lose the bet. If you don't gain fat or lose fat, then he loses the bet.

He won't take that bet.

[alecks]

(10-05-2012 08:28 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Eat nothing but fruits and vegetables for a week. No starches. No fat. No peanut butter and banana sandwiches.

See how much fat you gain.

It will be zero.

Seriously.

Here is a common sense question for you.

When is the last time you saw a fat person eating a bunch of fruit - and only fruit?

It's not hard to observe what makes people fat. Processed foods and sugary drinks are what's doing it. Ice cream sundaes, too.

Eat all the fruit you want.

Next time someone tells you fruit makes you fat, offer to bet him a grand. You'll only eat fruit. If you gain fat, you lose the bet. If you don't gain fat or lose fat, then he loses the bet.

He won't take that bet.

you are being too close minded.

You cannot put the blame for obesity on certain foods (sugary drinks,sundaes etc) because that is completely false.

il give you an example:

my maintenance calories are 2500 (for arguments sake) and i eat brown rice,chicken and salad all day and it totals up to 2500 calories = 225protein 225 carbs and 75g fat give or take.

now if i eat 2 apple and 2 banana which probably equals 350 calories.

Will i get fat? YES!!!!!!!!!!! i have went over my maintenance,therefore i have exceeded my energy intake.

same example from above but i eat a snickers bar which brings me say 350 calories over my maintenance.

will i get fat? YES!!!!! i have exceeded my energy intake,it does not matter which foods these come from as your body CANNOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN X FOOD AND Y FOOD,IT SEES NUTRIENTS!!.

so people contribute weight gain to things that they tend to gorge on.The reason people are fat is because they eat too much and dont fucking excercise,you cannot blame one nutrient for weight gain.
All these "dirty foods" taste good so people over eat them!

So instead of saying clean and dirty foods,describe them by their nutrient value

eg: a banana: you could say high in fibre,low in fat,high in potassium,low in calcium etc
eg: a snickers bar: high in fat,high in sugar,low protein low fibre. etc

your body doesnt say: This is a snickers bar,this is bad so you will get diabetes and gain fat,also the same with the apple or banana,your body doesnt say "this is good you will be healthy if you eat this"

[ManAbout]

(10-05-2012 08:28 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Next time someone tells you fruit makes you fat, offer to bet him a grand. You'll only eat fruit. If you gain fat, you lose the bet. If you don't gain fat or lose fat, then he loses the bet.

This is the problem I have with the people over on Mark's Daily Apple. They keep going on and on about how fruit is bad for you, and it's like "taking candy from a tree", while they eat bacon wrapped steaks for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Idiots.

[flyfreshandyoung]

Alecks,

Your entire example is faulty and in no way refutes anything because you would still be eating rice, a source of carbs.

While your overall point is good, you kind of ruin it with that.

I for one eat shit loads of fruit every day and juice them as well, and have no bad side effects.

Another problem with this "calorie is a calorie" viewpoint is that you people are forgetting *how* your body metabolizes different nutrients. Ultra concentrated sugars like high fructose corn syrup spike your insulin, causing you to store the sugar instead of using it to bring blood glucose down to an acceptable level. Simple sugars from fruits do not have the same effect, and are instead used more readily.

[alecks]

(10-05-2012 11:24 AM)flyfreshandyoung Wrote:  

Alecks,

Your entire example is faulty and in no way refutes anything because you would still be eating rice, a source of carbs.

While your overall point is good, you kind of ruin it with that.

I for one eat shit loads of fruit every day and juice them as well, and have no bad side effects.

Another problem with this "calorie is a calorie" viewpoint is that you people are forgetting *how* your body metabolizes different nutrients. Ultra concentrated sugars like high fructose corn syrup spike your insulin, causing you to store the sugar instead of using it to bring blood glucose down to an acceptable level. Simple sugars from fruits do not have the same effect, and are instead used more readily.

ffy i love your blog.I know you eat paleo too but thats for another day

What you have said there underlined makes no sense. What has rice,a source of carbohydrates to do with anything?

also what you said about hfcs bringing blood glucose down? that makes no sense what so ever. Do you know how insulin works?

[ManAbout]

(10-05-2012 09:46 AM)alecks Wrote:  

same example from above but i eat a snickers bar which brings me say 350 calories over my maintenance.

will i get fat? YES!!!!! i have exceeded my energy intake,it does not matter which foods these come from as your body CANNOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN X FOOD AND Y FOOD,IT SEES NUTRIENTS!!.

Intuitively, the calories from the snickers bar will be released much faster than the those from the apples and bananas. It's going to take your body more effort to convert the fruits into energy. By that time your body will have burned off some of those 2500 calories you ate. The snickers bar is concentrated immediately available sugar. You will get fat on the snickers bar, not on the fruit.

And that's without even getting into the effect that the snickers bar would have on your insulin resistance.

[alecks]

(10-05-2012 11:41 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(10-05-2012 09:46 AM)alecks Wrote:  

same example from above but i eat a snickers bar which brings me say 350 calories over my maintenance.

will i get fat? YES!!!!! i have exceeded my energy intake,it does not matter which foods these come from as your body CANNOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN X FOOD AND Y FOOD,IT SEES NUTRIENTS!!.

Intuitively, the calories from the snickers bar will be released much faster than the those from the apples and bananas. It's going to take your body more effort to convert the fruits into energy. By that time your body will have burned off some of those 2500 calories you ate. The snickers bar is concentrated immediately available sugar. You will get fat on the snickers bar, not on the fruit.

And that's without even getting into the effect that the snickers bar would have on your insulin resistance.

You cannot get "fatter" from something of the same caloric value.No you are wrong again.There is more fat and protein in the snickers bar then there is in a banana.The addition of these micronutrients slows down the digestion and absorption of sugar.So the "insulin spike" is negated by the fat and the protein.Yes the fibre in the banana will slow down its digestion also but its still faster than the snickers bar.But this makes no difference as the GI INDEX and the "insulin spike" are based on bullshit studies.

Insulin resistance happens from eating too much and being sedentary,unless you are pre-disposed to it

[MikeCF]

Why do you keep posting videos of some kid?

[alecks]

(10-05-2012 12:42 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Why do you keep posting videos of some kid?

Because that is where i got most of my info from.He cuts through all the bullshit in bodybuilding and the fitness industry and exposes all the myths and broscience.He's very intelligent for his age.Sure it looks like he hasnt lifted in his life but thats irrelivent,he used to be anorexic

[WestCoast]

Alecks are you in shape? Serious question.

You're spitting out lots of jargon on "chemical facts of calories in versus calories out". The human body is 40x more complex than that equation.

I've "exceeded" my calorie intake since I took up juicing and higher fruits and veggies. The result has been muscle gain and 0 fat gain. I don't really care about the chemicals, I'd try goin all fruits and veggies and high whey protein for a month and let us know if it fails. Doubt it will.

Also I have tried what you're suggesting, it resulted in an injury.

Finally it's tough to take advice from a guy who doesn't look in shape. Thats like me taking investment advice from the poor, no thanks.

Also being anorexic is a mental disease it's not a physical one I have friends who went through that trying to compete in high level endurance events

[MikeCF]

OK, so this is the last time I talk to you.

You and I have gotten into it in a few training threads, and it had been my opinion that you have no idea what you're talking about, but that you're a good kid who is trying.

Now I see that the bulk of your information comes from a pasty-looking kid with bad allergies.

I can't really talk to you pursuant to forum rules since you are very loud and opinionated while at the same time full of shit.

So I'm putting you on ignore.

[Giovonny]

I have been experimenting with this for almost 20 years. Seriously, every morning when I wake up, I stand in the mirror naked. I obeserve my body and how it changed from the day before. I think about what I ate the day before and how I exercised.

I pay special attention to what I ate the night before. I like to have dessert. I have a sweet tooth. My dessert is either fruit or a processed sugary snack like cupcakes/ice cream.

Here is what I have found after many years..

When I eat processed sugar like cake, cookies, pie, ice cream, soda, candy, etc. - I develop excess fat around my belly.

When I eat fruit - I develop no excess fat around my belly.

Again, this is all from personal experience. I know some doctors and scientists say that sugar from fruit is the same as sugar from soda. My experience does not agree with that. A soda the same as a handful of grapes?!? They are not the same. The soda will make you fat, the grapes will not. That has been my experience.

[HiFlo]

(10-05-2012 01:08 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

OK, so this is the last time I talk to you.

You and I have gotten into it in a few training threads, and it had been my opinion that you have no idea what you're talking about, but that you're a good kid who is trying.

Now I see that the bulk of your information comes from a pasty-looking kid with bad allergies.

I can't really talk to you pursuant to forum rules since you are very loud and opinionated while at the same time full of shit.

So I'm putting you on ignore.

ROFL!!!!

[alecks]

(10-05-2012 01:16 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I have been experimenting with this for almost 20 years. Seriously, every morning when I wake up, I stand in the mirror naked. I obeserve my body and how it changed from the day before. I think about what I ate the day before and how I exercised.

I pay special attention to what I ate the night before. I like to have dessert. I have a sweet tooth. My dessert is either fruit or a processed sugary snack like cupcakes/ice cream.

Here is what I have found after many years..

When I eat processed sugar like cake, cookies, pie, ice cream, soda, candy, etc. - I develop excess fat around my belly.

When I eat fruit - I develop no excess fat around my belly.

Again, this is all from personal experience. I know some doctors and scientists say that sugar from fruit is the same as sugar from soda. My experience does not agree with that. A soda the same as a handful of grapes?!? They are not the same. The soda will make you fat, the grapes will not. That has been my experience.

thats because those "dirty foods" are calorie dense,whilst fruit is not.Just to let yoy guys know I used to believe all this stuff too,that cakes,sodas and candy were bad but its all broscience.I bet the majority of people on this forum do not count macros (which is the no.1 factor determining body composition).

The reason you get fat is not because of soda and candy,its because you go over your calorie intake

[WestCoast]

After over a decade of elite sports training and working with Olympic athletes I am going to start taking advice from Alecks. In addition I am going to take the hint and assume he is the boy in the video. Thank you for showing me the light.

#cupcakes #coca-cola ftw!!!!!!!

Clown shoes.

(10-05-2012 01:45 PM)alecks Wrote:  

(10-05-2012 01:16 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I have been experimenting with this for almost 20 years. Seriously, every morning when I wake up, I stand in the mirror naked. I obeserve my body and how it changed from the day before. I think about what I ate the day before and how I exercised.

I pay special attention to what I ate the night before. I like to have dessert. I have a sweet tooth. My dessert is either fruit or a processed sugary snack like cupcakes/ice cream.

Here is what I have found after many years..

When I eat processed sugar like cake, cookies, pie, ice cream, soda, candy, etc. - I develop excess fat around my belly.

When I eat fruit - I develop no excess fat around my belly.

Again, this is all from personal experience. I know some doctors and scientists say that sugar from fruit is the same as sugar from soda. My experience does not agree with that. A soda the same as a handful of grapes?!? They are not the same. The soda will make you fat, the grapes will not. That has been my experience.

thats because those "dirty foods" are calorie dense,whilst fruit is not.Just to let yoy guys know I used to believe all this stuff too,that cakes,sodas and candy were bad but its all broscience.I bet the majority of people on this forum do not count macros (which is the no.1 factor determining body composition).

The reason you get fat is not because of soda and candy,its because you go over your calorie intake

[Zeus]

Alecks,

What. Thefuck. Are you smoking.

Pop, chips, and cake are OK?

This is what gets me. There is so many available resources to set yourself on the correct path, Robb wolf, Mark Sission, Et al and you spew this calorie is a calorie bull. And to top it off, half a dozen guys kindly are trying to explain it to you and you ARGUE!

and then.... AND THEN! you post vids of a pasty ass anorexic!

*drops mic*

Jebus.

[alecks]

(10-05-2012 02:23 PM)Zeus Wrote:  

Alecks,

What. Thefuck. Are you smoking.

Pop, chips, and cake are OK?

This is what gets me. There is so many available resources to set yourself on the correct path, Robb wolf, Mark Sission, Et al and you spew this calorie is a calorie bull. And to top it off, half a dozen guys kindly are trying to explain it to you and you ARGUE!

and then.... AND THEN! you post vids of a pasty ass anorexic!

*drops mic*

Jebus.

This is what im getting at,i wanted to explain the concept of a calorie is a calorie and the body sees nutrients not foods first.Look up If It Fits Your Macros.(IIFYM).

Eating all those foods (as your whole diet) above would without a doubt would cause health issues as it would cause severe micronutrient deficiencies,lack of phytonutrients and lack of fibre.

Heres the concept: 80% of your macros should come from micronutrient dense foods ie meat,eggs,whey protein,nuts,fruits and vegetables,and other carbs and fibrous carbs.

the other 20% can come from any food as long as IIFYM.

lets say im cutting (YES CUTTING!) and i need to eat 500kcal less to lose fat. my bmr is 2300 so i need to eat 1800 calories to lose weight.(give or take)

(p,c,f) = protein,carbs,fat

so i track my macros for the day and i eat this so far.

(in grams) 200p 150c 50f = 1850calories. i have 120 calories left to eat,but i must hit my macros of 200p,180c,and 50f.

therefore i need to have another 30grams of carbs to fit my macros.

Here it is fellas: The rest of your macros can come from whatever food you want,its such a small quantity that its almost negligible.But it does not halt fat loss. i can eat 30g worth of straight sugar because it fits my macros.

Dudes that are bulking,or cutting on high carbs or high fats can eat pizza,ice cream etc and still get shredded because It fits their fucking macros,it works and you can still have your favourite foods and get great gains and/or still get shredded.ITS JUST THE QUANTITIES OF THE FOODS THAT MATTER!!!

I WILL SAY IT AGAIN,YOUR BODY RECOGNISES NUTRIENTS NOT FOODS!.'

forget insulin spikes and crashes and all that bullshit,it does not make you fat in any way,eating in a constant calorie surplus and being sedentary makes you fat,not certian foods or a certain nutrient,its the overrall picture.

[flyfreshandyoung]

A calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie.

Look up the Thermic Effect of Food

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermic_effect_of_food

http://www.caloriesperhour.com/tutorial_thermic.php

[Zeus]

No, they do matter.

[alecks]

I know what the thermic effect of food is.but it is so negligible that it is unrealistic to say that if your diet consists of tons of protein vs a high fat diet that you will be much thinner

if your diet consists of lots of protein and lots of carbs,your metabolism will be higher vs a diet of protein and fats. Why are people afraid of carbs if they are more beneficial on a persons metabolism/leptin? makes no sense to me

zeus,explain how insulin "spikes" matter.watch the videos and read the studies then come back to me.

[Zeus]

No, you tell me. AFTER you read Robb Wolf

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