[Kissinger]

Hey first I would like to apologize to Tuthmosis and Roosh ahead of time for violating forum rules. But it's worth it to get this question out there.

I'm Chinese American and would like to know what westerners have against the Chinese specifically.

Ye Shiwen who won gold in women's swimming is now being accused of doping by a US coach.

Jeremy Lin gets haters trying to downplay his success.

People say they are allergic to msg yet they eat plenty of parmesan cheese and doritos.

I catch chinese broadcast news over satellite weekly and there is always respectful recognition of any breakthrough in sport by any country. I feel like the propaganda generated in this country about communism, manufacturing, and human rights is nothing more than smearing.

Subtle things like showing highlights of the chinese men's gymnastics team failing during qualifying (on NBC!) really get to me.

During my 22 years in this country I've seen obvious slights both in the media and in person.

It's confusing because I feel like chinese people in general are some of the most (on average) soft spoken and conscientious people in the world.

I'm wondering why the western world attempts to troll china at every turn.

In other words, why can't we all be friends?

[johnwu]

'MERICAAAA

[Kid Strangelove]

This should cover the first talking point - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...pians.html

The Chinese have had the shadiest recent reputation when it comes to international competition - the camps, as seem above, which were remnants of the soviet era sports camps, border on child abuse.

Sure, everyone dopes (I remember someone posted an interview with a drug dealer to athletes on this forum, it was fascinating), but the fact that China has the camps, has been caught the most recently with doping, as well as other violations (having 12 year old girls in the Olympics when the cutoff is 16), leads people to really hate the Chinese athletic programs.

[Sourcecode]

That girl cheated.
No matter how much you beat a kid to be better..there is no way she could start swimming that fast.

But..She doesnt know she cheated.
She is so calm..cause no one ever told her that she was being drugged..
She probably thought she as taking vitamins. the whole time. And she probably wont get caught...because i assume china has some new shit that wont show up on test
Plausible deniability.

I bet those 12 year old also had no idea the cut of was 12.
They thought they go cool new sports packages to go play on the monkey bars.

[Capitán Peligroso]

In a word, cheating. Cheating in international competition, cheating in international trade. I have no beef with the Chinese people, the few that I've known personally are industrious and hard working, good people that I am honored to know. As for Jeremy Lin, if he has the kind of career that Yao Ming had, he'll leave a tremendous legacy for the game of basketball. Not that I care about basketball, I don't really, but I wish him all the luck in the world and certainly don't begrudge his success. As for people who are the instruments or products of corrupt systems or corrupt institutions, it's pretty hard to root for them, no matter what game they're playing or what country they come from.

[Kissinger]

"selective editing of Ye’s 400 IM leaves out the fact that she was in fifth place after the race’s first leg, the butterfly. (She swam that leg seven seconds slower than Lochte did, for what it’s worth.) She also didn’t hold the lead in the 400 IM at any split until the 350-meter mark. One of the reasons Ye was so strong at the end, it seems, was that she was weak in the beginning."

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fiv...tion_.html

And also, I think you are insinuating that the Chinese are the only people to ever have tried to cheat.

How about Marion Jones?

Michael Phelps? Lance Armstrong? Any strong suspicions there?

Professional sports?

NFL players? PEDs and baseball?

Let the hamster spin...

My point is that this negativity is placed too easily without any evidence.

And those pictures you see of kids "suffering" during training is something the fats kids today could benefit from. It teaches a lot of life lessons early on. That type of training is similar to what Jackie Chan went through before he did anything substantial. You can show pictures of momentary pain or you can show them smiling, biting into gold. Spin ftw.

[chyamor]

Lets not forgot how much of Beijing opening ceremony was faked.

[user10726]

I've been watching the weightlifting events and all I can say is it's given me a new found respect for the Chinese. You can see how much effort they put in. Today Lu Haojie did his C&J with an injury he encountered from the snatch and you could see how uncomfortable he was the whole event, it was inspiring to see him make the lift and still achieve silver. Lu Xiaojun put on an incredible performance, setting a new snatch world record, then attempting to break it again but they wouldn't let him due to a 'clerical error', he then went on to achieve gold. Even when accepting their medals, they are very humble and respectful, shaking every person on the podiums hand before accepting their medal. That's not to say every country doesn't put in the effort, I felt proud for any man who successfully lifted his weight.

[Kissinger]

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-blogs/sw...oping.html

[Tuthmosis]

How did I miss this thread before? The OP is a multiple-time previously banned race troll.

I shouldn't throw flame on this race thread, but I have an interesting insight. I knew three people who cheated in major ways in high school. One straight-up brought an electronic dictionary into the SAT and used it to get a top score and into a top college (he was reasonably smart, but cheated his way through high school). Another guy falsified his transcript for a college application, upgrading several of his grades and submitting it. And, the third would routinely have people "re-word" stuff he downloaded online and then turn it in as his own. The first was Korean, but the other two were Chinese. Only one of them was caught, and he got what turned out to be a slap on the wrist.

I knew another guy who, after making the mistake of showing him my online dating profile, went back and copied it word-for-word. He was Chinese. When a couple of years ago, there was a major scandal about an organized campaign, a conspiracy really, for cheating on the Graduate Record Examination (GRE), guess where they were from? Who's the world's number one source of counterfeit goods? A few years ago, there was an article about street vendors in Beijing selling pork buns that were actually made out of cardboard flavored with grease. That's not to mention all of the sports cheating, like when the Chinese were stripped of their gymnastics medals for knowingly fielding underage competitors.

I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese are some of the world's best counterfeiters because, for hundreds of years, artists there made exact replicas of famous art for people. Intellectual property simply does not have the same concept there. This sort of bending-of-the-rules seems to extend into other areas.

I don't think this has anything to do with race, but there's seems to be something with the Chinese and cheating. It's Indians and trolling. It's certainly not every Indian (we have Indians who are top-shelf, contributing members of this forum, even), but when one goes rogue, it's usually in the troll direction.

Maybe there's something like this with the Chinese.

[el mechanico]

Did any new guys this month make the cut?

[Moma]

(08-05-2012 12:17 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

How did I miss this thread before? The OP is a multiple-time previously banned race troll.

I shouldn't throw flame on this race thread, but I have an interesting insight I don't know what to make of. I knew three people who cheated in major ways in high school. One straight-up brought an electronic dictionary into the SAT and used it to get a top score and into a top college (he was reasonably smart, but cheated his way through high school). Another guy falsified his transcript for a college application, upgrading several of his grades and submitting it. And, the third would routinely have people "re-word" stuff he downloaded online and then turn it in as his own. The first was Korean, but the other two were Chinese. Only one of them was caught, and he got what turn out to be a slap on the wrist.

I knew another guy who, after showing him my online dating profile, copied it word-for-word. He was Chinese. When a couple of years ago, there was a major scandal about an organized campaign, a conspiracy really, for cheating on the Graduate Record Examination (GRE), guess where they were from? Who's the world's number one source of counterfeit goods? A few years ago, there was an article about street vendors in Beijing selling pork buns that were actually made out of cardboard flavored with grease.

I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese are some of the world's best counterfeiters because, for hundreds of years, artists there made exact replicas of famous art for people. Intellectual property simply does not have the same concept there. This sort of bending-of-the-rules seems to extend into other areas.

I don't think this has anything to do with race, but there's seems to be something with the Chinese and cheating. It's Indians and trolling. It's certainly not every Indian (we have Indians who are top-shelf, contributing members of this forum, even), but when one goes rogue, it's usually in the troll direction.

Maybe there's something like this with the Chinese.

Without wanting to sound out of place maybe coming from a communism culture discourages creativity and encourages duplicity?

[Tuthmosis]

(08-05-2012 12:33 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Without wanting to sound out of place maybe coming from a communism culture discourages creativity and encourages duplicity?

They're very creative about their cheating. I'd venture to guess it has more to do with family/generational pressure and East-Asian "honor culture."

[Veloce]

It bums me out to see this. I met Kissinger IRL. He's a dope kid.

What you gotta realize man, is that here in 'merica, we smear campaign EVERYONE. Check out that hugely popular thread, 10 things americans don't know about america. Our whole media system does nothing but highlight how shitty other countries are to make ours look better and give its citizens a highly skewed perception of the U.S.'s standing in the world.

It's normal that you'd be sensitive to anti-Chinese sentiments, but you should also understand it's not specific to your country. First example that comes to mind is the recent earthquake/tsunami in Japan and you'd have red blooded Americans calling into news stations yelling, "PEARL HARBOR, BITCH!"

[Giovonny]

(08-05-2012 12:17 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

How did I miss this thread before? The OP is a multiple-time previously banned race troll.

I shouldn't throw flame on this race thread, but I have an interesting insight. I knew three people who cheated in major ways in high school. One straight-up brought an electronic dictionary into the SAT and used it to get a top score and into a top college (he was reasonably smart, but cheated his way through high school). Another guy falsified his transcript for a college application, upgrading several of his grades and submitting it. And, the third would routinely have people "re-word" stuff he downloaded online and then turn it in as his own. The first was Korean, but the other two were Chinese. Only one of them was caught, and he got what turned out to be a slap on the wrist.

I knew another guy who, after making the mistake of showing him my online dating profile, went back and copied it word-for-word. He was Chinese. When a couple of years ago, there was a major scandal about an organized campaign, a conspiracy really, for cheating on the Graduate Record Examination (GRE), guess where they were from? Who's the world's number one source of counterfeit goods? A few years ago, there was an article about street vendors in Beijing selling pork buns that were actually made out of cardboard flavored with grease. That's not to mention all of the sports cheating, like when the Chinese were stripped of their gymnastics medals for knowingly fielding underage competitors.

I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese are some of the world's best counterfeiters because, for hundreds of years, artists there made exact replicas of famous art for people. Intellectual property simply does not have the same concept there. This sort of bending-of-the-rules seems to extend into other areas.

I don't think this has anything to do with race, but there's seems to be something with the Chinese and cheating. It's Indians and trolling. It's certainly not every Indian (we have Indians who are top-shelf, contributing members of this forum, even), but when one goes rogue, it's usually in the troll direction.

Maybe there's something like this with the Chinese.

I respectfully disagree.

I don't think Chinese people are any bigger cheaters then anyone else. I think all races will cheat relatively equal if the circumstances are the same.

You could make a case that whites are the biggest cheaters in the world. The recent banking scandal, the mortgage scandal of last year, the real estate manipulation of 2009, the wall street manipulation, the Iraq/Afaganistan wars which were basically for oil and $$$, Enron scandal, Madoff scandal, Iran-Contra, etc.

It seems like the most powerful whites are very prone to cheating and manipulation. Is this a racial or ethnic thing? No, I think its situational. Because of recent world history, whites are in control of the financial markets and banking. They are human and they will cheat if they think they can get away with it. Any race would do the same.

You could also make a case that Latinos are the biggest cheaters. Mexico is almost a narco-state, meaning that drug money is one of the biggest factors in their government. Similar to how Colombia was in the Pablo Escobar era. Drug profits are inter-woven into society. Its one of their main exports. Corruption is rampant.

Is this because of their race or ethnicity? I say no. Its situational. Everyone wants to make easy money. Because of their location being right between South America and the USA, they are the middleman in the drug business. They have opportunities to make huge amounts of tax free money. Any race would do the same.

You could make a similar case with Blacks. They are statistically more prone to sell drugs, they are statistically more likely to be on public assistance, 1 in 4 American Black men is either in jail or probation. Is this because of race and ethnicity. No. Its is because if their situation. They couldn't even go to school or buy real estate 40-50 years ago. They inherited no wealth from their parents and grandparents. They were given the least amount of preparation and training for a capitalist society.Their parents and grandparents were not even really allowed to build capital. They have a chance to make some easy money, they do. Any race would do the same.

I don't think we can say any one race is more prone to cheating them the others. People are people. They will try to get away with whatever they can given their circumstances. We will all cheat if we were hungry and poor and had a chance to get a few dollars.

(08-05-2012 12:33 AM)Moma Wrote:  

maybe coming from a communism culture discourages creativity and encourages duplicity?

I tend to agree and obviously this is situational and not due to race/ethnicity. I have heard this discussed before. Creativity and spontaeous problem solving suffer in communist societies. Free thinking is discouraged.

(08-05-2012 12:37 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

They're very creative about their cheating. I'd venture to guess it has more to do with family/generational pressure and East-Asian "honor culture."

Creativity is not supposed to be one of their strong suits. But, cheating may be an exception to that. Family pressure does cause alot of cheating in all cultures. "Honor culture"? Cheating in the name of honor? Seems kind of funny no?

[HeyPete]

I suggest reading "Poorly Made in China"

It will have you checking every label whenever you buy anything. ANYTHING.

Even if it's twice as much, I refuse to buy anything made in China. It's not worth the risk to me.

[kdolo]

(08-05-2012 01:15 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-05-2012 12:17 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

How did I miss this thread before? The OP is a multiple-time previously banned race troll.

I shouldn't throw flame on this race thread, but I have an interesting insight. I knew three people who cheated in major ways in high school. One straight-up brought an electronic dictionary into the SAT and used it to get a top score and into a top college (he was reasonably smart, but cheated his way through high school). Another guy falsified his transcript for a college application, upgrading several of his grades and submitting it. And, the third would routinely have people "re-word" stuff he downloaded online and then turn it in as his own. The first was Korean, but the other two were Chinese. Only one of them was caught, and he got what turned out to be a slap on the wrist.

I knew another guy who, after making the mistake of showing him my online dating profile, went back and copied it word-for-word. He was Chinese. When a couple of years ago, there was a major scandal about an organized campaign, a conspiracy really, for cheating on the Graduate Record Examination (GRE), guess where they were from? Who's the world's number one source of counterfeit goods? A few years ago, there was an article about street vendors in Beijing selling pork buns that were actually made out of cardboard flavored with grease. That's not to mention all of the sports cheating, like when the Chinese were stripped of their gymnastics medals for knowingly fielding underage competitors.

I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese are some of the world's best counterfeiters because, for hundreds of years, artists there made exact replicas of famous art for people. Intellectual property simply does not have the same concept there. This sort of bending-of-the-rules seems to extend into other areas.

I don't think this has anything to do with race, but there's seems to be something with the Chinese and cheating. It's Indians and trolling. It's certainly not every Indian (we have Indians who are top-shelf, contributing members of this forum, even), but when one goes rogue, it's usually in the troll direction.

Maybe there's something like this with the Chinese.

I respectfully disagree.

I don't think Chinese people are any bigger cheaters then anyone else. I think all races will cheat relatively equal if the circumstances are the same.

You could make a case that whites are the biggest cheaters in the world. The recent banking scandal, the mortgage scandal of last year, the real estate manipulation of 2009, the wall street manipulation, the Iraq/Afaganistan wars which were basically for oil and $$$, Enron scandal, Madoff scandal, Iran-Contra, etc.

It seems like the most powerful whites are very prone to cheating and manipulation. Is this a racial or ethnic thing? No, I think its situational. Because of recent world history, whites are in control of the financial markets and banking. They are human and they will cheat if they think they can get away with it. Any race would do the same.

You could also make a case that Latinos are the biggest cheaters. Mexico is almost a narco-state, meaning that drug money is one of the biggest factors in their government. Similar to how Colombia was in the Pablo Escobar era. Drug profits are inter-woven into society. Its one of their main exports. Corruption is rampant.

Is this because of their race or ethnicity? I say no. Its situational. Everyone wants to make easy money. Because of their location being right between South America and the USA, they are the middleman in the drug business. They have opportunities to make huge amounts of tax free money. Any race would do the same.

You could make a similar case with Blacks. They are statistically more prone to sell drugs, they are statistically more likely to be on public assistance, 1 in 4 American Black men is either in jail or probation. Is this because of race and ethnicity. No. Its is because if their situation. They couldn't even go to school or buy real estate 40-50 years ago. They inherited no wealth from their parents and grandparents. They were given the least amount of preparation and training for a capitalist society.Their parents and grandparents were not even really allowed to build capital. They have a chance to make some easy money, they do. Any race would do the same.

I don't think we can say any one race is more prone to cheating them the others. People are people. They will try to get away with whatever they can given their circumstances. We will all cheat if we were hungry and poor and had a chance to get a few dollars.

(08-05-2012 12:33 AM)Moma Wrote:  

maybe coming from a communism culture discourages creativity and encourages duplicity?

I tend to agree and obviously this is situational and not due to race/ethnicity. I have heard this discussed before. Creativity and spontaeous problem solving suffer in communist societies. Free thinking is discouraged.

(08-05-2012 12:37 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

They're very creative about their cheating. I'd venture to guess it has more to do with family/generational pressure and East-Asian "honor culture."

Creativity is not supposed to be one of their strong suits. But, cheating may be an exception to that. Family pressure does cause alot of cheating in all cultures. "Honor culture"? Cheating in the name of honor? Seems kind of funny no?

Not necessarily true. Some groups do more cheating than others period.........proof: "Da Joos" ........been doing that cheating shit since Egypt B.C.

[Tuthmosis]

(08-05-2012 01:15 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I think all races will cheat relatively equal if the circumstances are the same.

This is what I was getting at in the last part of my post (the "going rogue" line). It's the certain brands of cheating that I'm flagging. All groups hustle from--as you pointed out--J. Winston Waterbanks III, the investment banker who thinks his hustle is better than everyone else's, to Samuel Rodriguez, the local street hustla'. Reverse the names and race-associations and you have the same problems.

All that said, I still shouldn't have fed this race thread. I can already sense it's getting ready to turn.

[Hades]

I'm sure all countries cheat, it's just that the Chinese have extreme government support and are organized. And it's often done under layers of secrecy. The players/contestants might not even be aware that cheating is taking place. Even if testing officials found that the athletes were taking roids or doping, and a media smear campaign happened everywhere, nothing would change. They're using these athletes as a way to flex nuts to the world, and it works because their methods of cheating (or more surprising, if they aren't cheating) are so damned excellent.

[Bad Hussar]

(08-05-2012 09:52 PM)HeyPete Wrote:  

I suggest reading "Poorly Made in China"

It will have you checking every label whenever you buy anything. ANYTHING.

Even if it's twice as much, I refuse to buy anything made in China. It's not worth the risk to me.

Can you go into this a bit more. It seems almost all mass produced non-food consumer goods are made in China. how do you get by?

[Bad Hussar]

Athletes who make big gains in a short time will ALWAYS be suspected of cheating. I don't think it really has all that much to do with China. Carl Lewis and others have long accused Jamaican sprinters like Bolt of being suspect drug cheats for this reason.

The battle between the chemists who try to mask drug use and the doping authorities who try to unmask them will go on forever. I have no opinion on whether Le Shewen is cheating or not, but I will predict that if she is, she will eventually get caught. She's young and has many years left in competitive athletics. Those who do cheat think they are too clever. Even if you beat a test today, tomorrow a whole new testing regime is instituted that can unmask previous use. The use of hair and tissue samples is especially promising since they will be able to look quite far back in time and not just test whether the athlete has something in his blood stream at the time of the test.

[Giovonny]

(08-05-2012 10:59 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I still shouldn't have fed this race thread. I can already sense it's getting ready to turn.

This thread has already turned!!! It was started by a previously banned race troll and you and I have only flamed the fire.

I was surprised to read your post. That was some pretty good race flaming. If someone had said something similar about whites, blacks, latinos, or middle easterners, this thread would be closed already. Its almost like a running joke to pick on asians and indians.

After reading your response, I guess your point is that certain cultures tend to cheat in certain ways. That makes more sense to me.

I really don't think Chinese are any more prone to cheat then anyone else.

And, I don't think Indians are anymore prone to troll then anyone else. Dash is white, BBL is black, and we have had various other troll/meltdown episodes by a variety of races/cultures. I think the Indian troll thing is mostly a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ever since the original Indian race troll, we have sort of made a joke out of the whole race troll thing. It became a forum stereotype that Indians are often the most aggressive trollers. Again, I think all races have trolled us pretty equally and putting more blame on Indians is more of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think we have any statistics on who has trolled us the most?

I don't know, I could be wrong. Indians and Asians are easy targets because they don't often defend themselves aggressively. Maybe that's why I am quick to defend them.

I know this is a very sensitive conversation and I can't believe this thread is still open but I at least wanted to share my thoughts while I still can.

I think indians and asians are hungry to learn game and I support them and wish them success.

As far as cheating in general, I have seen all races cheat in many ways, I can't really say I've observed any race cheat any more then the others.

[Tuthmosis]

(08-06-2012 01:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

After reading your response, I guess your point is that certain cultures tend to cheat in certain ways. That makes more sense to me.

That's exactly what I was getting at. That said, the fact that this was started by race troll, people got to say what they had to say, and it hasn't blown up is enough to close it up.