Quote: (06-26-2012 09:40 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:
Roissy wrote something about this and concluded that no, saying that guys with lots of (legal or illegal) kids are automatically Alphas would imply that guys who get morbidly obese, extremely undesirable and etc. women pregnant are thus Alphas for dumpster-diving. I generally agree with him. Being Alpha, in the sense of sexual market, is best defined as fucking (or having real and not "sour grapes" ability to) many young hot girls.
Can't find the article right now, anyone has it?
Roissy can say what he likes about the alpha/procreator theory, and I won't disagree that impregnating whales is less than impressive. Likewise, merely siring a bunch of children is not sufficient to deem one an alpha male, especially given the fact that any beta male (using societal restrictions to enforce strict monogamy and his exclusive access to a given woman as a patriarch without competition or her having much say in the matter) can accomplish this.
However, I don't buy the idea that reproductive success is not linked to any objective measure of "alpha". While it is not a sufficient condition, I do think it is a somewhat necessary one, at least if one is to try and reach the full potential of what it means to be an "alpha male".
Reproduction is the actual purpose of sex. Only within the last 30 or so years has technology managed to separate reproduction from the sexual act, and even then that separation is only really consistently available to a sliver of earth's population (read: relatively well-off inhabitants of progressive, first-world societies and a few elites within developing nations-perhaps 1 or so billion of earth's 7+ billion people). Procreation is the end to which all measures of "alpha" that we go on and on about in evo-psych/game/the manosphere are aimed.
"Alpha", by definition = reproductively desirable male with a greater chance of siring more offspring and finding more women to carry them. Attraction is merely part of the "alpha male's" ability, and that ability to attract is not actually meant to be the alpha's end in and of itself. That ability to attact many women is actually designed to facilitate sexual access, which in turn is meant to facilitate reproduction. The alpha's ability to attract many young, hot women (which Roissy states is sufficient as an end or as a definition of "alpha") only exists as a result of his expressed traits of reproductive fitness-in other words, these women are drawn to him because they subconsciously (or consciously) sense his reproductive fitness, and desire his seed (while the alpha himself is drawn consciously or otherwise to said young, hot women for their reproductive fitness as well).
On a purely biological level, the alpha is, by definition, built to do much more than merely attract many women or fuck many women. Those are not ends, but rather means to a single, final end:
He is built to impregnate many women.
This is the
actual point of it all:
Procreation.
In the modern west, moving to this logical conclusion of "alphadom" is too costly for most men (and women, arguably) and also heavily socialized out of them. This is why we have reduced the scope of what it means to be alpha to just achieving a high notch count (or merely being able to achieve a high notch count). While the reality goes beyond this (to reproduction), it is more practical in our day to assume it does not, so this is what we do.
I find this state of things exceedingly empty, largely meaningless and mildly depressing, but understand that it really cannot be helped.
In other societies, men are still able to safely realize the full potential of what we call 'alpha', and bring it to its logical conclusion (reproduction) on a more regular basis.
It is one thing to be able to seduce and attract a lot of pretty women. It is another entirely to be able to sire children with many such women. That is the next level, IMO, and the one I personally find much more worthy of aiming for. The alpha male is, by definition, designed for precisely this aim. When one concludes that merely attracting many women or fucking a bunch is sufficient to the final definition of "alpha", one tells just part of the story-an important part, but still merely a portion. Simply attracting and/or fucking a ton of women is great and constitutes a necessary ability to be considered an alpha, but it is not the end for which the "alpha" came into being. That end is reproduction.
Quote: (07-01-2012 12:31 AM)scotian Wrote:
This is a common attitude among many guys down in Jamaica, its also the country with the highest rate of illegitimate children in the world.
Being of Jamaican heritage myself, I can a) confirm this and b) posit that this may very well be a genetic phenomenon, something that is bred into us.
That I can still maintain this attitude myself in spite of my upbringing (only 6 of 21 years alive spent in Jamaica, most of life spent amongst affluent white people who operate with diametrically opposite mentality, etc) tells me there's more to it than just circumstance. We're prone to be this way almost anywhere we go.
Some humans are, by nature, just more heavily inclined to want to breed more expansively. Jamaicans are among them, or at least that is my hunch.
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