[Roosh]

Quote:

Working in a field that you don't like will lead you to be miserable.

Better than having no income and begging for food.

[gringochileno]

An exception to the advice to major in a STEM field might be philosophy, especially if you plan on going to grad school. It's a major that teaches you how to think clearly and critically about a wide range of issues, so even if you don't graduate with specific technical knowledge (which most jobs don't really require you to use anyway) you'll still have analytical skills that are in high demand.

[Roosh]

Quote:

An exception to the advice to major in a STEM field might be philosophy, especially if you plan on going to grad school.

Link?

[gringochileno]

(04-04-2012 04:35 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

An exception to the advice to major in a STEM field might be philosophy, especially if you plan on going to grad school.

Link?

http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2012/03/w...etter.html

Big caveat/potential conflict of interest, the dude's a philosophy professor. But the data is the data.

[Roosh]

I'm looking for starting salary numbers that say philosophy is up there with STEM majors. From what I've seen, philosophy is in the middle of the pack or in the rear.

A philosophy professor depends on more kids majoring in philosophy to keep his job, so he's a bit biased. He perpetuates the higher education circle jerk. Encouraging kids to major in it because it helps them "think" is harmful if the income statistics don't back up that assertion.

[gringochileno]

(04-04-2012 04:52 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm looking for starting salary numbers that say philosophy is up there with STEM majors. From what I've seen, philosophy is in the middle of the pack or in the rear.

A philosophy professor depends on more kids majoring in philosophy to keep his job, so he's a bit biased. He perpetuates the higher education circle jerk. Encouraging kids to major in it because it helps them "think" is harmful if the income statistics don't back up that assertion.

It might not be great for starting salary because you don't graduate with any specific technical skills like you would with an econ or computer science major. I would look for salary statistics 5 years out or so to see how people are advancing. If a philosophy major better prepares you for the job market by giving you good analytical and writing skills then you might see them making up the difference over time.

Also, if you want to get a Master's or Ph.D. a philosophy major might be a good idea because they tend to get better GRE scores (although as the guy said, it's hard to prove what's causing what based solely on that data).

I agree that he's probably biased due to his position but I also don't see how his points are obviously wrong.

[sheesh]

(04-04-2012 04:30 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

An exception to the advice to major in a STEM field might be philosophy, especially if you plan on going to grad school. It's a major that teaches you how to think clearly and critically about a wide range of issues, so even if you don't graduate with specific technical knowledge (which most jobs don't really require you to use anyway) you'll still have analytical skills that are in high demand.

I have often heard this argument at school by my philosophy teachers but don't agree at all.

I would not spend years at college ( especially in the US where education costs an insane amount of money) and study philosophy just to become eloquent and good at analytical and critical thinking.

Anyone who can read can study philosophy by himself at home if all he wants to do is to increase his vocabulary and/or broaden his horizon. You might not be at the level of studied PhD's when it comes to in-depth knowledge of Kant, Decartes, Socrates etc. but if you don't intend to pursue a career in academics anyway, who cares ?

Too much time and money spent for a qualification that is impalpable, imho.

[Asmodeus]

Anyone have an opinion on majoring in physics vs engineering?

[Blanco]

(04-04-2012 06:04 PM)Asmodeus Wrote:  

Anyone have an opinion on majoring in physics vs engineering?

I know a lot of engineers. All of them are employed and never had trouble finding work.

[UrbanNerd]

Look...

I was a Applied Mathematics major and took 80% of the Computer Science program for my electives and it was the best decision of my life. Hell, didn't even have a 3.0 GPA when I graduated and STILL got hired by a large company right out of school. No previous intership. No previous co-op.

20+ years in the software engineering industry....with the last 12 years over 6 figures in salary each year. Yes, I went and grabbed one of those security clearances since they are "gold" here in the DC/MD/VA area.

Just the OTHER day, my job pissed me off. Went and "turned on" my resume for viewing and had calls and interviews lined up. My employer must have seen the posted resume and the next day, there were all sorts of apologies. The problem is...they may be too late, lol.

(04-04-2012 06:04 PM)Asmodeus Wrote:  

Anyone have an opinion on majoring in physics vs engineering?

[Deluge]

To answer a few guys, I'm actually about average in Math but I'm doing an advanced Mathematics (but not the hardest) class which I have no choice but to do, where I'm at the bottom of my class and is my worst subject.

[dulst]

Anyone heard of a book called How to Win at College?

It's by a guy called Cal Newport who runs a blog called Study Hacks. I haven't read the book (yet) but his blog has been really useful to me at uni.

With regard to STEM subjects vs Arts, STEM is only worthwhile if you're fucking good at it.

This is something noone talks about. Everyone harps on about how you should pick X subject over Y, or attend A college or do what you love or whatever. These people don't consider the most important factor - ability.

There's no point picking maths over philosophy if you suck at maths but excel at critical thinking and writing essays.

Don't arbitrarily pick a subject based on whether it's considered good or not.

Don't pick based on doing "what you love" (which will change many times through uni anyway).

Pick what you're good at.

For me this is physics - lucky me right? Wrong, physics has above average unemployment rates in the UK. I don't care, because I'm good at it. Where you fall in your class is more important than which class you take.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11652845

[YoungGunner]

(04-04-2012 08:25 PM)dulst Wrote:  

Anyone heard of a book called How to Win at College?

It's by a guy called Cal Newport who runs a blog called Study Hacks. I haven't read the book (yet) but his blog has been really useful to me at uni.

With regard to STEM subjects vs Arts, STEM is only worthwhile if you're fucking good at it.

This is something noone talks about. Everyone harps on about how you should pick X subject over Y, or attend A college or do what you love or whatever. These people don't consider the most important factor - ability.

There's no point picking maths over philosophy if you suck at maths but excel at critical thinking and writing essays.

Don't arbitrarily pick a subject based on whether it's considered good or not.

Don't pick based on doing "what you love" (which will change many times through uni anyway).

Pick what you're good at.

For me this is physics - lucky me right? Wrong, physics has above average unemployment rates in the UK. I don't care, because I'm good at it. Where you fall in your class is more important than which class you take.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11652845

you should read his other book "How to Be a Straight-A Student" I personally found it more useful since the blog covers most of the material in "How to Win at College"

[scotian]

Glad you liked the book Roosh, look forward to your review. The author, Aaron Clarey, also has a really good blog that I like to check out, its called "Captain Capitalism": http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/

I think you guys will like his blog too, lots of good posts about what is wrong with American women, young people today, currents issues, politics, etc.

As for the book, definitely a must read for anyone in high school now or anyone considering going back to school. As someone who has a worthless degree (in French, the author touches on this by saying, instead of studying the language at school, why not just move somewhere the language is spoken, I agree 100%), I wish I didn't listen to teachers and guidance councilors back back in high school and started a trade or STEM degree back then.

[UrbanNerd]

(04-04-2012 06:04 PM)Asmodeus Wrote:  

Anyone have an opinion on majoring in physics vs engineering?

Physics by itself is a risky major. The happy-medium would be to major in "engineering physics" which is not offered at every engineering school.

[gringochileno]

(04-04-2012 05:30 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

You might not be at the level of studied PhD's when it comes to in-depth knowledge of Kant, Decartes, Socrates etc. but if you don't intend to pursue a career in academics anyway, who cares ?

And most people who major in math don't end up in jobs that routinely require them to solve differential equations or use real analysis or group theory. It's the fact that studying mathematics develops fluency in logic and quantitative skills that makes it an in-demand major. You may not need to know your Descartes and Hegel for most professions, but it seems like if you can do well in a good university's philosophy department, the same writing and critical thinking skills will be very attractive to a lot of employers.

[Bad Hussar]

(04-04-2012 08:25 PM)dulst Wrote:  

Pick what you're good at.

For me this is physics - lucky me right? Wrong, physics has above average unemployment rates in the UK. I don't care, because I'm good at it. Where you fall in your class is more important than which class you take.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11652845

Don't a lot of Investment Banks and Hedge Funds employ people with advanced degrees in Physics as Quantitative Analysts? Definitely not a poorly paid position.

[Caligula]

(04-05-2012 04:55 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

(04-04-2012 08:25 PM)dulst Wrote:  

Pick what you're good at.

For me this is physics - lucky me right? Wrong, physics has above average unemployment rates in the UK. I don't care, because I'm good at it. Where you fall in your class is more important than which class you take.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11652845

Don't a lot of Investment Banks and Hedge Funds employ people with advanced degrees in Physics as Quantitative Analysts? Definitely not a poorly paid position.

A lot of the early quants were physicists, and many still go into finance. I personally know a physics professor who makes very good money on the side consulting for hedge funds helping them build mathematical models.

[raliv]

I just finished this book. I bought it for my younger brothers who are in their first years of college. I wish I had read it years ago. I graduated with a History degree and it's not doing anything.

I was surprised how funny the book is. I used to read Clarey's blog quite often and enjoyed his humor but the book is very easy to read while being very informative and thorough. I recommend it.

[WhoZis]

(04-04-2012 10:54 AM)houston Wrote:  

I thought it was common sense to not pick those dumb majors.

Spoken like a true engineer.

[WhoZis]

One trick might be to get a STEM major (or if non-college, a certification in a technical field) that will let you do something you love later in a "soft" field.

Say you're interested in politics. Instead of interning for free during the summers, and majoring in poli sci, and working for peanuts when you graduate, why not major in civic engineering, then get a job in the department of water and power, or the highway department. Civic engineering will be a lot easier and more interesting for many outgoing type guys than, say, designing microchips or something. After holding a management level job at DWP or DHS, buying a house, getting married and coaching T-ball, and participating in community stuff, people will be coming to you to run for office.

I think this could be generalized to other fields. It's like you have to ask yourself, "what would be the easy, painless, fat-lazy-boy way to accomplish my dream?" ...instead of doing everything the hard, difficult, painful way, like a snail crawling across the straight edge of a razor blade.

(Speaking as an experienced snail...)

[scotian]

(04-16-2012 08:21 PM)WhoZis Wrote:  

One trick might be to get a STEM major (or if non-college, a certification in a technical field) that will let you do something you love later in a "soft" field.

Say you're interested in politics. Instead of interning for free during the summers, and majoring in poli sci, and working for peanuts when you graduate, why not major in civic engineering, then get a job in the department of water and power, or the highway department. Civic engineering will be a lot easier and more interesting for many outgoing type guys than, say, designing microchips or something. After holding a management level job at DWP or DHS, buying a house, getting married and coaching T-ball, and participating in community stuff, people will be coming to you to run for office.

I think this could be generalized to other fields. It's like you have to ask yourself, "what would be the easy, painless, fat-lazy-boy way to accomplish my dream?" ...instead of doing everything the hard, difficult, painful way, like a snail crawling across the straight edge of a razor blade.

(Speaking as an experienced snail...)

Good point, this is so true, especially for young guys. Just because you start out in a field such as engineering or even a skilled trade, that doesn't mean that you'll be doing it forever, you can always move on through more education or just being promoted within a company. Also, if for whatever reason that doesn't move out, you'll always have your education and training to fall back on.

This is basically what I see myself doing in the next 3-5 years, either doing some mechanical engineer training or maybe and MBA to go into management, if it fails, oh well, I'll still have a job.

College degrees in worthless majors should come with a warning: "you likely won't find a job with this degree and when you can't, don't say we didn't warn you".

[Screwston]

(04-16-2012 08:01 PM)WhoZis Wrote:  

(04-04-2012 10:54 AM)houston Wrote:  

I thought it was common sense to not pick those dumb majors.

Spoken like a true engineer.

Haha maybe. I hate math, but can do amazing things when I put my mind to it. Scotian and a few others have opened my eyes to a lot of new things. I'm going to stop taking classes and work with my hands for a while and take it from there....I might get a degree later on. I don't want to busting my ass forever working with oil. I know that much.

[porcupine]

Bumping with this article:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2...alism.html

Check out all the butthurt idiots in the comments section citing baseless statistics and anecdotes and claiming how their moronic investments are worth the KNOWLEDGE and ENRICHMENT instead of thinking "Hmmm, maybe I SHOULDN'T be spending $40k a year to study art history."

[DjembaDjemba]

(04-23-2012 02:52 PM)porcupine Wrote:  

Bumping with this article:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2...alism.html

Check out all the butthurt idiots in the comments section citing baseless statistics and anecdotes and claiming how their moronic investments are worth the KNOWLEDGE and ENRICHMENT instead of thinking "Hmmm, maybe I SHOULDN'T be spending $40k a year to study art history."

I'm surprised Architecture is in 5th place.

But the rest do seem completely useless.