[Aliblahba]

The south is scary as fuck. Don't believe me? Come down to the ATL and we'll get on MARTA. If not, we'll drive through N. Charleston at night. No? I'll take you to a Federal Reservation. The south is full of haters.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-14-2012 06:28 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 05:02 AM)Smitty Wrote:  

Ha, you've never worked for the United States government, have you? If you want to work in a system that is set up to advance people of color and women, then go work for the government. And after you're done, come back here and tell me there is no institutional racism against whites.

What are you talking about? Paper pushers and low level clerks and bureaucrats? No dude, go where the power is. Look out over the floor of congress and it's a sea of white male faces. 99% of the Supreme Court justices in American history have been white males. As have ALL the presidents up until 2008.

Quote:

What do you mean when you say blacks must play by white rules to survive. Give me specific examples of these rules.

Look at Obama for instance. He can't be seen as ever taking up for a black person even if it's appropriate in any instance to do so or else he'll be considered "anti-white" by conservative media. Look at the Henry Louis Gates issue. All he said is that the cops acted stupidly for arresting a man that was proven to be innocent and inside his home. And whites went nuts. Then he had to go and have a beer with the arresting officer just to assuage white America's paranoia that he was Malcolm X reincarnate for simply stating the obvious. You think that shit would've happened in reverse? What if a black officer arrested Rush Limbaugh in his own home under the same circumstances and a conservative white president said the officer acted stupidly, you think whites would've been up in arms about it? You think he would be forced to have a beer with arresting black officer? HELL NO. If he appoints a minority to any position(such as Sotomayor), he is accused of practicing affirmative action and being racist against whites. He had to release a damn birth certificate to PROVE he's American because a huge swath of white America thinks he's a Muslim born in Africa. What white president has ever had to release their birth certificate while in office just to shut up half the country that doesn't think you're a "real" American? And we can guess what they mean by real American.

I don't think the Henry Louis Gates issue was about race, though race inevitably gets drawn into these situations.

First of all, Obama is the President of the United States, not the President of Black Americans. His constituents are ALL AMERICANS.

He should have never opened his mouth about Gates to begin with. That's a matter that's beneath the office of the presidency. Also, he wasn't there. Why on earth would he refer to the police department as being "stupid?" That's quite an insult coming from an American president - especially to a law enforcement agency - and they had every right to be angered by that smug comment. Obama made a classic newbie mistake. Any other president would have kept their mouth shut. As a result of his transgression, he had to elevate that mundane matter into a national dialogue that involved Gates and the officer sharing a beer at the White House! Talk about a waste of time. Americans never cease to amaze me with their infatuation for the absurd. Of all the problems facing this great nation, we get riled up and emotionally invested by a black man who just happens to be a Harvard professor, who was locked out of his home, and didn't have nice things to say when the police arrived due to a neighbor's call (the reason he was arrested).

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name. His whole story is pretty rare for a whole host of reasons. Many people understandably don't know who he really is or what he's about, and they have their doubts. It's not a matter of being black, but foreign. A guy like Colin Powell, Herman Cain, or any other conventional "African-American" politician wouldn't have to deal with that.

[ATTA]

This whole thread reminds be of something Roissy rolls out every once in awhile.

diversity + proximity = war

[el mechanico]

[attachment=5350]

[speakeasy]

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

First of all, Obama is the President of the United States, not the President of Black Americans. His constituents are ALL AMERICANS.

I'm aware of that HC, and I never said I expected him to be otherwise. But he also should not have to dance around any issue of race any less than a white president would. We know pretty well that if Bill Clinton made an open declaration of his support for affirmative action(which he did support) people would interpret a whole different way than if Obama were to do the same. Obama would try to run from the issue because he knows mentioning anything about race can do him nothing but harm.

Quote:

He should have never opened his mouth about Gates to begin with. That's a matter that's beneath the office of the presidency.

He was asked for an opinion by the media during a press conference. It was well known that Gates and Obama were friends so I don't think it was out of the question to ask him for his take on the subject.

Quote:

Also, he wasn't there. Why on earth would he refer to the police department as being "stupid?" That's quite an insult coming from an American president - especially to a law enforcement agency - and they had every right to be angered by that smug comment. Obama made a classic newbie mistake. Any other president would have kept their mouth shut.

But do you deny that had the races been reversed nobody would've made a big deal about his answer? If Bush said a black cop acted stupidly after arresting Rush Limbaugh in his own home under identical circumstances do you think it would of led to the same shitstorm? That's the main point I was driving home. Even the most successful blacks have to play this dance and maneuver within the social confines that white society demands. A white candidate such as Clinton can support public health care and not have the issue racialized. When Obama supported, we had to hear the talking heads on Fox News like Glenn Beck speak of it as a form of "reparations" and "white slavery". Yet Beck still got to keep his job. Btw, can you imagine a major black anchorman talking in such an inflammatory way about race on a major news network and not getting fired??

Quote:

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name. His whole story is pretty rare for a whole host of reasons. Many people understandably don't know who he really is or what he's about, and they have their doubts. It's not a matter of being black, but foreign. A guy like Colin Powell, Herman Cain, or any other conventional "African-American" politician wouldn't have to deal with that.

This article is a must read for anyone that finds his name odd. It's no more odd than BENJAMIN Franklin or ABRAHAM Lincoln, both names of middle eastern origin as well: http://www.salon.com/2008/02/29/hussein_2/


edit--

Holy shit, this thread is still open. So guys, how 'bout them Clippers this season?

[thegmanifesto]

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name.

What's an "American name"?

Would John Kennedy not be an "American name", because it's an "Irish name"?

[Amour Fou]

Why doesn't the South form an independent nation of their own and let the Blues do as they wish elsewhere?

[ATTA]

(03-14-2012 11:31 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Why doesn't the South form an independent nation of their own and let the Blues do as they wish elsewhere?

They tried that. It's called the Civil War, bra.

Half a million casualties. Definitely not worth it, in my opinion.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-14-2012 11:27 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name.

What's an "American name"?

Would John Kennedy not be an "American name", because it's an "Irish name"?

Barack's middle name is actually Hussein (a Muslim name). His biological dad was born a Muslim.

[Enfant_Terrible]

(03-14-2012 11:39 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:27 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name.

What's an "American name"?

Would John Kennedy not be an "American name", because it's an "Irish name"?

Barack's middle name is actually Hussein (a Muslim name). His biological dad was born a Muslim.

I think what G's trying to imply is that it gets tricky when you say BO is "not an American name" because the USA is a country of immigrants.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-14-2012 11:18 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

First of all, Obama is the President of the United States, not the President of Black Americans. His constituents are ALL AMERICANS.

I'm aware of that HC, and I never said I expected him to be otherwise. But he also should not have to dance around any issue of race any less than a white president would. We know pretty well that if Bill Clinton made an open declaration of his support for affirmative action(which he did support) people would interpret a whole different way than if Obama were to do the same. Obama would try to run from the issue because he knows mentioning anything about race can do him nothing but harm.

You're cherry picking issues here. There are many things Obama has liberty to talk about that Clinton doesn't. That's what politics is. Every politician is different. Focusing on race to make generalizations about a whole host of complex issues is very myopic.

Quote:

He should have never opened his mouth about Gates to begin with. That's a matter that's beneath the office of the presidency.

[/quote]
He was asked for an opinion by the media during a press conference. It was well known that Gates and Obama were friends so I don't think it was out of the question to ask him for his take on the subject.

[/quote]
Sure, he can take the question but not give a personal opinion. That was a mistake. He could have answered it tactfully and politically rather than throw himself into the debate. He's a president for god's sake. Throwing himself in that controversy was beneath his role.

Quote:

Also, he wasn't there. Why on earth would he refer to the police department as being "stupid?" That's quite an insult coming from an American president - especially to a law enforcement agency - and they had every right to be angered by that smug comment. Obama made a classic newbie mistake. Any other president would have kept their mouth shut.

[/quote]
But do you deny that had the races been reversed nobody would've made a big deal about his answer? If Bush said a black cop acted stupidly after arresting Rush Limbaugh in his own home under identical circumstances do you think it would of led to the same shitstorm? That's the main point I was driving home. Even the most successful blacks have to play this dance and maneuver within the social confines that white society demands. A white candidate such as Clinton can support public health care and not have the issue racialized. When Obama supported, we had to hear the talking heads on Fox News like Glenn Beck speak of it as a form of "reparations" and "white slavery". Yet Beck still got to keep his job. Btw, can you imagine a major black anchorman talking in such an inflammatory way about race on a major news network and not getting fired??

[/quote]

Glenn Beck and Limbaugh are entertainers. They will use anything to discredit a Democrat. Obama's race is an easy target for them. It's controversial, which serves their business interests all too well.

Bill Clinton wasn't black, but he got a TON of hate from the right wing media and Congress. They even tried to impeach him. Not only do these people hate democrats, they also hate a guy like Clinton who grew up in a poor single-parent household in Arkansas. In spite of all his intelligence and accomplishments, they naturally saw him as being unfit for the presidency. The ad hominem attacks and vicious insults his wife endured during the health care fiasco in his first term was unprecedented and has yet to find any equal, even to this day. The Obamas have it much easier than the Clintons did.

Quote:

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name. His whole story is pretty rare for a whole host of reasons. Many people understandably don't know who he really is or what he's about, and they have their doubts. It's not a matter of being black, but foreign. A guy like Colin Powell, Herman Cain, or any other conventional "African-American" politician wouldn't have to deal with that.

[/quote]
This article is a must read for anyone that finds his name odd. It's no more odd than BENJAMIN Franklin or ABRAHAM Lincoln, both names of middle eastern origin as well: http://www.salon.com/2008/02/29/hussein_2/

[/quote]

Those names aren't specific to Islam. Hussein is.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-14-2012 11:51 AM)Enfant_Terrible Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:39 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:27 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name.

What's an "American name"?

Would John Kennedy not be an "American name", because it's an "Irish name"?

Barack's middle name is actually Hussein (a Muslim name). His biological dad was born a Muslim.

I think what G's trying to imply is that it gets tricky when you say BO is "not an American name" because the USA is a country of immigrants.

Muslims can't be American?

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-14-2012 11:51 AM)Enfant_Terrible Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:39 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:27 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name.

What's an "American name"?

Would John Kennedy not be an "American name", because it's an "Irish name"?

Barack's middle name is actually Hussein (a Muslim name). His biological dad was born a Muslim.

I think what G's trying to imply is that it gets tricky when you say BO is "not an American name" because the USA is a country of immigrants.

John is definitely not a name exclusive to Ireland.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-14-2012 11:54 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:51 AM)Enfant_Terrible Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:39 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:27 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 08:23 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

As for the birth certificate claim, you do realize that Barack Obama is not exactly an American name.

What's an "American name"?

Would John Kennedy not be an "American name", because it's an "Irish name"?

Barack's middle name is actually Hussein (a Muslim name). His biological dad was born a Muslim.

I think what G's trying to imply is that it gets tricky when you say BO is "not an American name" because the USA is a country of immigrants.

Muslims can't be American?

Of course they can be. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. There's many Americans who live in homogeneous communities and don't really know any foreigners. It's not surprising that some of them may want proof that the President is actually an American.

[speakeasy]

(03-14-2012 11:55 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

It's not surprising that some of them may want proof that the President is actually an American.

He already gave proof from the get go. These people thought the proof wasn't good enough. Put it this way, none of these people came through with proof that he was born outside the United States. I think you are being too understanding of them. I think it's clear as day why they were questioning his nationality.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-14-2012 12:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:55 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

It's not surprising that some of them may want proof that the President is actually an American.

He already gave proof from the get go. These people thought the proof wasn't good enough. Put it this way, none of these people came through with proof that he was born outside the United States. I think you are being too understanding of them. I think it's clear as day why they were questioning his nationality.

I mean it depends who you're talking about. Those folks in that Mississippi clip will never vote for Obama. Forget that he's black or whether they think he's a Muslim, those folks just aren't going for Democrats, period.

Now, there are many people in Red states who still voted for Obama. The fact that Obama is even president goes to show how many people overlooked not just his race, but his foreign name and unusual background. That goes to show how great the American people are. To vote for a guy with the middle name of Hussein while we're in wars in the Middle East and have dealt with catastrophic terror attacks, and eight years of Bush, is nothing short of awe-inspiring.

[snoop]

(03-12-2012 07:05 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Well, not just the racism, but widespread beliefs that God is what will fix the economy, people living in 3rd world conditions voting for the 1% because they think it's about "morals and values", etc.

I don't see how this is any more ridiculous than believing the government is going to fix it.

[Caramel Communist]

(03-15-2012 08:39 AM)snoop Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 07:05 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Well, not just the racism, but widespread beliefs that God is what will fix the economy, people living in 3rd world conditions voting for the 1% because they think it's about "morals and values", etc.

I don't see how this is any more ridiculous than believing the government is going to fix it.

Politely disagree,

I think the fact that boa, citi, chase, wachovia, aig, detroit automotive industry should even exist today should refute your argument. Government not the problem...effective lobbying on behalf of corporate interests is the problem other wise protective legislation would of been in place to prevent the collapse.

[azulsombra]

(03-14-2012 12:19 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 12:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:55 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

It's not surprising that some of them may want proof that the President is actually an American.

He already gave proof from the get go. These people thought the proof wasn't good enough. Put it this way, none of these people came through with proof that he was born outside the United States. I think you are being too understanding of them. I think it's clear as day why they were questioning his nationality.

Now, there are many people in Red states who still voted for Obama. The fact that Obama is even president goes to show how many people overlooked not just his race, but his foreign name and unusual background. That goes to show how great the American people are. To vote for a guy with the middle name of Hussein while we're in wars in the Middle East and have dealt with catastrophic terror attacks, and eight years of Bush, is nothing short of awe-inspiring.

I think your looking too much into the signifigance of his middle name. He ran as Barack Obama, not B. Hussein Obama. This should have been a non-issue to any rational human being from any country anyway. Sure, many people in red states voted for Barack Obama, but it's a two party system. Their only alternative was a 72 year old former POW "maverick" who sang about bombing Iran. Obama's win should not have been that surprising.

This time around it looks like he's up against a far more qualified contender........Mitt Romney. Should be interesting.

[speakeasy]

(03-14-2012 09:29 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

This whole thread reminds be of something Roissy rolls out every once in awhile.

diversity + proximity = war

If that's the case Brazil should be the most war-torn country on earth.

[Goldin Boy]

(03-14-2012 11:34 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 11:31 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Why doesn't the South form an independent nation of their own and let the Blues do as they wish elsewhere?

They tried that. It's called the Civil War, bra.

Half a million casualties. Definitely not worth it, in my opinion.

Ironically places like Mississippi look like they're still stuck in the 1860's.

[Deluge]

(03-15-2012 09:07 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:29 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

This whole thread reminds be of something Roissy rolls out every once in awhile.

diversity + proximity = war

If that's the case Brazil should be the most war-torn country on earth.

I wonder if Brazil's more harmonious race relations exist because they didn't have the "One Drop Rule" in Brazil.

Random fact: In Brazil's southern (and by far the whitest) states, the average white person's genetic makeup is roughly 10% African.

[ATTA]

(03-15-2012 09:07 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:29 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

This whole thread reminds be of something Roissy rolls out every once in awhile.

diversity + proximity = war

If that's the case Brazil should be the most war-torn country on earth.

Exceptions don't disprove the rule, bra.

It's a simple premise that goes hand-in-hand with evolutionary psychology. A field 'game' takes a lot of points from. Just sayin'.

[DjembaDjemba]

(03-16-2012 09:31 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

(03-15-2012 09:07 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:29 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

This whole thread reminds be of something Roissy rolls out every once in awhile.

diversity + proximity = war

If that's the case Brazil should be the most war-torn country on earth.

Exceptions don't disprove the rule, bra.

It's a simple premise that goes hand-in-hand with evolutionary psychology. A field 'game' takes a lot of points from. Just sayin'.

Not much of a rule then.

What about the Dominican Republic? Trinidad & Tobago, St Kitts and Nevis, Egypt, Nepal, Singapore, there's a long list of multiracial/multi-ethnic nations among that list.

This is an excuse for people to project their own biases on others in the hope they're just like them.

I am mixed and I'd love to have a beer with those fellas in the video. I don't think they're scary at all. I bet we could even pick up lizards together. No teeth game. Southern twang game. Shirtless with a beer in hand game. You name it we can run it.

I've been to the south now (finally) and plenty of interracial loving going on there. Stop the hate...make love and babies. Yes there's a few haters, but they're far few in between than expected from the media and cultural portrayal.

Too much misplaced sectarianism for nothing.

[ATTA]

(03-16-2012 01:46 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(03-16-2012 09:31 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

(03-15-2012 09:07 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-14-2012 09:29 AM)ATTA Wrote:  

This whole thread reminds be of something Roissy rolls out every once in awhile.

diversity + proximity = war

If that's the case Brazil should be the most war-torn country on earth.

Exceptions don't disprove the rule, bra.

It's a simple premise that goes hand-in-hand with evolutionary psychology. A field 'game' takes a lot of points from. Just sayin'.

Not much of a rule then.

What about the Dominican Republic? Trinidad & Tobago, St Kitts and Nevis, Egypt, Nepal, Singapore, there's a long list of multiracial/multi-ethnic nations among that list.

This is an excuse for people to project their own biases on others in the hope they're just like them.

I am mixed and I'd love to have a beer with those fellas in the video. I don't think they're scary at all. I bet we could even pick up lizards together. No teeth game. Southern twang game. Shirtless with a beer in hand game. You name it we can run it.

I've been to the south now (finally) and plenty of interracial loving going on there. Stop the hate...make love and babies. Yes there's a few haters, but they're far few in between than expected from the media and cultural portrayal.

Too much misplaced sectarianism for nothing.

Fair enough.

What about Rwanda, Bosnia, Sudan, Israel/Palestine, Kurds, Chechnya, Los Angeles, the proliferation of suburbs in the US, etc.

I concede. We can meet halfway. Differences are an issue in any society, not just racial ones. I think it can be safe to say though that the more differences added to society the result often times results in more conflict.