[Timoteo]

(10-04-2013 06:34 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

I put a fake profile on POF recently w/a guy who looked like an Abercrombie model and I got 1-2 messages a day and about 20 girls a day clicking on my profile. The profile basically said nothing. What I found entertaining was the girls who send the messages - typically no more then 8 words - were delusional fat pigs if they thought they actually had a chance w/this dude.

Girls typically complain about the kind of messages they get from guys online (admittedly, there are a lot of thirsty dudes, perverts, weirdos, trolls, etc.), yet when they get a guy that is actually trying to get a dialogue going, or trying to chat with them legitimately, all they come back with is one and two word answers, so those guys give up. And the chicks that expect to be blown away by some beautifully well-worded missive are the ones with absolutely NOTHING on their profiles, so you have nothing to work with. And yeah...the only chicks that actually initiate contact are the kind of chicks you wouldn't want to fuck - fat and desperate.

[GLethal85]

It's all very very true.

Every girl that subscribes to online dating is getting messaged the fuck out of by tons of dudes. Even fat black girls are getting several messages per hour.

If you had 12 - 15 messages per hour from decent to good looking girls the power would totally get to your head too. The manosphere wouldn't have to exist cuz pussy would be as accessible as water.

American women truly are living in cock paradise. America is the best place in the world to be a woman.

[rudebwoy]

Plain and simple, don't do online dating. It means you have to get off your ass and socialize.

[Timoteo]

I don't use online for trying to find local women. I use it exclusively for women that don't live in the country, or at least in other states that I might want to visit. I don't use it locally, because like rudebwoy stated, I get out and see and interact with local people. Of course, it can be a way to get at women that you might not be lucky enough to run into, but I would recommend trying to escalate quickly - get the number, get on Skype, get the meet-up. If it looks like there's going to be too much back-and-forth on whatever site you're using, terminate. Chicks have a way of taking forever to respond to a simple message, dragging the interaction out. Don't do that.

[MustardTiger]

(10-06-2013 10:07 PM)GLethal85 Wrote:  

American women truly are living in cock paradise. America is the best place in the world to be a woman.

So true. I just got back from a date I met on OKC. While trying to get in her pants she kept pushing me back, saying how she's had a lot of ONS's and wanted a real relationship. This girl was ok looking, chunky, but totally into kinky shit, and very personable. It pissed me off that someone like her (6 at best) could get it so easy, whereas a guy like me: smart, good looking, great paying job, in great shape (I know, I'm tooting my own horn here) has such a hard time getting a date with even a 7. She kicked me out of her place and it made me realize this is exactly why I will never get into a serious relationship, and why I need to work even harder at getting a tight game.

[Ternarydemonite]

(10-06-2013 10:07 PM)GLethal85 Wrote:  

American women truly are living in cock paradise. America is the best place in the world to be a woman.

Here in Mexico they have it even better. We not only have the same problems as the USA, but the obesity rate is even higher, and the original american race was is quite ugly. Here, a thin women is automatically in the top 30%, even with a horse face. If she has an average face, top 15% and so on. Basically, an american 6 is a 7 here.

I met a girl through OKC and told me that the day she opened his acount, she got well over 300 messages. Average is 20 per day. Based on the profile pic, she deletes 95% of them. There is no other way since reading them all would take several hours per day.

To succeed at online game, you MUST BE VERY GOOD LOOKING, otherwise your message will be one amongst the dozens deleted. If as a man you are not a 7 or higher, you have to use photoshop, pay for a professional photo shoot; or just drop online dating and hit the bars and coffee shops.

[Dusty]

(10-06-2013 10:07 PM)GLethal85 Wrote:  

If you had 12 - 15 messages per hour from decent to good looking girls the power would totally get to your head too. The manosphere wouldn't have to exist cuz pussy would be as accessible as water.

American women truly are living in cock paradise. America is the best place in the world to be a woman.

Somehow the math doesn't hold together though. I agree with you that women who are 6s at best seem to get way too much attention. How does that work? Isn't the population 50/50 male/female overall? Is it because there are more 7+ men than 7+ women, so the 6 girls get all this 7-10 overflow men who can't match up with 7-10 women?

This phenomenon seems to be true for online dating and at bars/clubs. The demand for 7+ women outstrip the supply of 7+ women.

I might be wrong, but it might be less of an issue in day game, where it seems like guys who are 7s or so can meet 7+ women easier. There's less bitchiness and attitude in day game than online or in the clubs.

[philly22]

The reason a girl 7 can get some much attention from guys 7-10 is because you're only considering women in their 20's. A girl who has the benefit of youth will always get a bump because she has men her age as well as men 10-15 years older than her trying to pull her.

[Archer]

(10-08-2013 08:59 AM)philly22 Wrote:  

The reason a girl 7 can get some much attention from guys 7-10 is because you're only considering women in their 20's. A girl who has the benefit of youth will always get a bump because she has men her age as well as men 10-15 years older than her trying to pull her.

I agree with what you said. Also, lets not forget that (and I've seen this) a girl can go from a 4/10 to an 8/10 with make up on.

we are also turned on (or at least I am) by those yoga pants and excessive cleavage which only boosts a girls number on the number scale. Its not like guys can walk around in speedos with a huge bulge and get positive results.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

Wait a minute. If she's good at online dating, why is she still online dating? Isn't the point to get a boyfriend? She's mistaken. What she's good at is:

1). Attention-whoring

2). Hustling free dinners out of naive Betas.

[Razor Beast]

(10-07-2013 10:35 AM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

To succeed at online game, you MUST BE VERY GOOD LOOKING, otherwise your message will be one amongst the dozens deleted. If as a man you are not a 7 or higher, you have to use photoshop, pay for a professional photo shoot; or just drop online dating and hit the bars and coffee shops.

I agree with this. Women act like they want relationships online to deflect sexual attention from thirsty betas. It's really no different than a bar pickup other than there is the added step of going from online to offline. If you are good looking you should be able to bang on the first meet every time.

[XPQ22]

Old thread is old. But just to comment on what Razor Beast said, even if you're good looking you definitely won't bang on the first meet every time.

This is why in general it's best to hit at girls in their 20s. Girls in their 20s have the decency to only wase your time online. Girls in their 20s can be relied upon to ghost on you when you pitch the meet consistently if they're only after validation.

Girls in their 30s are much more into wasting your time in person.

[RatInTheWoods]

(10-07-2013 10:35 AM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 10:07 PM)GLethal85 Wrote:  

American women truly are living in cock paradise. America is the best place in the world to be a woman.

If as a man you are not a 7 or higher, you have to use photoshop, pay for a professional photo shoot; or just drop online dating and hit the bars and coffee shops.

The thirst is just a big an issue in RL as well. They get the same abundance of attention in the street, workplaces, coffee shops etc.

Bottom line is eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap...

Shit hand, but we got dealt it.

The good news is the odds come back into your favor as you get older.

[Sourcecode]

I'm not a 7.
I do fine online. My pictures aren't professional.
You might be making excuses for your failure.

[griffinmill]

Women aren't "good" at online dating.

Women just turn up.

[XPQ22]

I agree with Sourcecode. From what I've seen, the common denominator of guys that say "you have to be a male model with professional head shots to get laid online!!!!11" is that they have a boring profile, they don't know how to rapidly eject on girls who are simply there to waste their time, and...weak text game.

[Kid Twist]

(10-04-2013 01:45 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(10-04-2013 12:49 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

This would be hilarious. I can't even imagine how absolutely awful a woman would do at trying to pick up chicks online with an average man's pictures. The failure would be mindblowing to them. Imagine they profiles they would write, the pickup lines and messages they would use. I think many women would literally be driven to tears by the sheer level of rejection they would experience, because they've lived their entire lives in the female bubble, which guarantees them a minimal level of attention from men. But men, on the other hand, enjoy no such benefit. The average man must fight and claw for every scrap of attention from women. I'm not even joking when I say that if you somehow forced women to experience the constant rejection that men live with every day, 90% of them would get so depressed they wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning.

I used to get hurt by rejection.

Then I had a moment where the thoughts churning in my head crystallized, and it all became clear.

Men get to create their own lives. Women live through the lives of other men.

I would rather face failure and be free, than to live in the shadow of others.

No one wants to hear this (no woman), but it is true, as a general rule. Note, though, that we all play a role, and that our culture has distorted the understanding of what it means to be a man (in many ways) and a woman (again, in many ways). Your focus, for this day and age, is true --- because our culture is super-individualistic, "liberal" (in the classic sense) and consumer driven --- but the biological reality is that it is exceedingly difficult for men to create "quality" lives, and not as difficult for a woman to create relative quality because it is dependent on family and thus, man. The former takes talent, determination, and time --- and gets paid a small portion of the time. The latter requires little but biology, but gets paid a greater portion of the time. The defining difference, I guess, is that the male can hit a genetic lottery but still needs to put his talents to work over time, but the woman can hit it (or just be young) and it requires nothing of her, really, at all.

Just some thoughts.

[Kid Twist]

(05-03-2016 08:10 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

I agree with Sourcecode. From what I've seen, the common denominator of guys that say "you have to be a male model with professional head shots to get laid online!!!!11" is that they have a boring profile, they don't know how to rapidly eject on girls who are simply there to waste their time, and...weak text game.

What would you say is the biggest sign early that they are there just to waste your time? I'm not sure if this has to do with it, but I always talk about the 5-10% that you actually have a back and forth (your gut tells you they are interested). When you don't have that kind of reciprocity, they either aren't interested (really), have so many matches it's hard to keep attention (over time), or ... both. Again, timing is everything and you'll never know.

As an aside, that Strauss guy pointed out something on an article which had to do with dick pics that I wanted to comment on:

It's our natural disposition as males to get right to it, precisely because we realize that so many girls are on there just to waste (your) time. As a person of efficiency, and male, you will try to cut to the chase. Resist this urge and let it naturally come up over time, or let her bring it up. Just like in other situations, there is natural ASD for girls. Comfort is key. So get the comfort, then start to tiptoe the line. A girl not otherwise against a transition to sex talk will find you creepy if you do it too early, because so many other undisciplined guys are out there with a quick hit approach.

[XPQ22]

^ Biggest warning signs in my book that they're going to waste your time:

Attention-whore pics (including pro photos - avoid)
Long rambling profile full of "so-the-fuck-what" verbage
One line responses
They have bitch face in their photos

Green flags:

Profile that is fairly brief, but it seems like she knows how to use the English language, basically just reads like a girl being honest about herself, does she come off in your first impression as "chill, fun, and happy with life"

Girls who ask you questions about your profile, or tell you what they like about it, or say they like your pics, but don't lay it on really thick "you have nice eyes" not "OMG you're really cute"

Most of their profile photos are selfies, but they look like she actually put effort into looking nice for them, a few candid full body shots where she seems to be legitimately having a good time

You get the sense that they've only been using the site for a couple months, or had been away for a while and recently reactivated

Almost forgot: if you're in the suburbs, they're willing to drive to meet you, or at least get on the metro and take a significant amount of time getting to the venue. Never meet city girls on their home turf 2 blocks from their apartment. If they want to see you, make them work for it.

I've looked back over all the girls things have "worked out" with for me in the past 9 months or so and just about all of them have had the latter characteristics in common. Not saying you won't meet a few serial daters who have them as well, but at the end of the day many serial daters are very good at hiding their game and you won't know for sure until you get them out - no way to avoid wasting some time there.

The philosophy of "let it just happen naturally" is fine as far as it goes. But here's the deal. There are essentially two types of girls on the site - timewasters (at least for you, it might just be that you don't excite them enough as someone else) and girls looking for new dick. In my experience, the girls who are looking for new dick want YOU to take the lead on the interaction, to qualify yourself as a man who knows how to move things along and get what he wants, i.e. has experience with other women, i.e. is a man worth fucking. The point of online dating is not to get her to talk about sex on the Internet with you. It's irrelevant and probably actually hurts you - it likely INCRESES ASD once you meet up with them, as you're setting expectations that they're going to hamster their ass off about. It's just to get a girl who might be interested in sex in real life in front of you as rapidly as possible.

I could kick myself thinking about some of the lays I probably lost out on last summer when I didn't have a program, and was just texting back and forth with girls. Theyn were just waiting on me to close with them, and for whatever reason I thought that "comfort building" was the right approach. Looking back I'm surprised that some of them gave me as much a chance as they did before giving up.

In that regard online game is no different than any other. The same conversation "rules" you can read in Day Bang work fine for online game in my experience as well. Opener -> elderly chat -> big bait -> judge interest -> determine logistics -> pitch meet -> grab number -> go on date -> regame -> touching and physical escalation - > sex and/or relationship.

The first steps up to the meet pitch, with a girl who is sincerely interested, can be done in no more than 10-15 texts. Any more than that and you're wasting time, and you definitely will lose out on lays to guys who know how to push forward with the script effectively.

And there are also some girls who will follow the script exactly for ten or fifteen messages, but when you pitch the meet hit you with "well I'm going on vacation for two weeks." It's not because you didn't "build enough comfort", I guarantee that if you had sent a hundred texts and then pitched the meet you would've got the same line. They were timewasters from the get-go. It may happen more often than not these days. Just the way it is - but fortunately by following the script you limited your time investment to the absolute minimum.

[XPQ22]

I just wanted to add that the above is working for me currently, but note that the number of girls who bail out in meet pitches, even after more than a dozen messages, seems to be steadily increasing.

As night game continues to decline, more men are headed online, girls are playing their options much harder, and perhaps "punishing" guys for not giving them the level of attention they want before suggesting the meet. That is to say - more thirsty guys, less tolerance for any behavior that implies needyness.

Eventually online game may just turn into "orbiter game" for all but the highest SMV men, where being added to a stable of admirers and patiently waiting your turn is a requirement.

I already have difficulty even attempting to "qualify" the lowliest of Bed and Bath employee online girls; taking the conversation in any direction that sounds like you're asking her "So what makes you different than other girls here?" and you'll rapidly find out that she doesn't feel she has a thing to prove to anyone.

[Delta]

I agree with most of what XPQ wrote, but disagree about selfies being a positive. They're often the mark of an attention whore looking for validation.

Another very important point to add is beware girls with group pictures. If she's making you play that annoying game of "okay now which face was common to all 3 photos?", then she's probably not at all serious about meeting people (i.e. a timewaster), and she's definitely not a conscientious person.

The ideal photos are ones where she's out with friends having a good time, but she took the 30 seconds to crop them out and make it clear at first glance who she is, or selected a photo that only includes her. This little gesture demonstrates a level of consideration that most young women don't have.

[DimeBait]

This is what I hate about online dating. A slim 4 will think she's a dime because of the plethora of fatties and onslaught of cowardly men hitting them up on a daily basis.

[XPQ22]

@Delta (sorry I'm on mobile and I'm having trouble with the "quote" function)

Basically there are two kinds of pictures - selfies and not selfies. You can speculate all you like about which of them is more "attention-whorey." IMO there's no hard and fast rule, the girls I've met have been a mix of both and I can discern no real pattern. People know that headshots generally get more attention, and the simplest way for anyone to do that is a phone selfie.

The only red flags for me are obvious attention-whoring type photos regardless of type - you know it when you see it. The irony is that I think for men it's okay to have pro shots, but at least in my mind a woman who has what looks like professional/model shots in her profile pretty much immediately makes me believe I'm going to be wasting my time.

@DimeBait Yup, it's a validation engine for many women with low self-esteem, common knowldege. Your mission is to hunt for the few good-looking girls on there who don't care about all that, but are simply looking for new dick from a guy with game. They can be hard to find, but they're there. Once you've laid a few of them, you get better at screening for girls with similar demeanors.

I am looking for greener pastures than OKCupid at the moment, however. I'm looking back over my messages from the past couple weeks, and it's incredible how many girls have disabled or deactivated their accounts. I think it's unlikely that theyve all given up online dating for a LTR..they never shut down their accounts that quickly. I think they've just decided the site is junk and have gone somewhere else. Question is where?