[JayMillz]

http://www.seguridadjusticiaypaz.org.mx/...la-segunda

[FretDancer]

Really sad. I wonder what does it take to end such an amount of violence in a country.

[garygroundwork]

(03-03-2012 12:01 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Really sad. I wonder what does it take to end such an amount of violence in a country.

legalising drugs

[FretDancer]

(03-03-2012 12:13 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 12:01 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Really sad. I wonder what does it take to end such an amount of violence in a country.

legalising drugs

You know, I was thinking about that the other day. And you could probably be right, however I'm not sure how positive the outcome of that would be, specially in a 3rd world country.

I feel we should have a good debate about this.

[garygroundwork]

legalising drugs would solve so many problems its not funny.

but it wont happen because too many people in govenrnemt postions would lose their jobs...what would customs, police, dea, judges, lawyers, people that work in jails do with themselves??

criminals wouldn't be able to make money, organisations such as the FARC wouldnt be able to exist

what did the head of the biggest mexican drug cartel once say?? something like god bless america and their laws on drugs, it has made me a very rich man.

[BLarsen]

A city more violent than Ciudad Juarez? I was surprised...

Speaking of violence and drug trade, I was listening to NPR on a story about Mexican cartels supplying the Australian market with coke. In Texas a kilo goes for $16k, in Australia it goes for $250K! Fucking outrageous!

[garygroundwork]

yep a gram of coke cost $400 in oz

oz and nz are the most lucrative markets for cartels

[Tony Snow25]

(03-03-2012 01:16 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

yep a gram of coke cost $400 in oz

oz and nz are the most lucrative markets for cartels

I met a dude in Brazil that lived in Australia and he was saying the same thing. It's funny because there it's thought of to be a drug for rich people but in Brazil and other South American countries even the poor can afford to use cocaine. It goes for roughly $US10 a gram in Brazil and probably even less in other South American countries.

[Kaizen]

The 'War on Drugs' is one of the most foolish political strategies in history, IMO.

The USA doesn't seem to be giving this up anytime soon.

[garygroundwork]

(03-03-2012 03:09 AM)Tony Snow25 Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 01:16 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

yep a gram of coke cost $400 in oz

oz and nz are the most lucrative markets for cartels

I met a dude in Brazil that lived in Australia and he was saying the same thing. It's funny because there it's thought of to be a drug for rich people but in Brazil and other South American countries even the poor can afford to use cocaine. It goes for roughly $US10 a gram in Brazil and probably even less in other South American countries.

yeah it's an elitest drug in Australia. Sports players, people in the entertainment industry and wealthy people use it. You don't come across it much.

[garygroundwork]

(03-03-2012 03:30 AM)bigxxx Wrote:  

The 'War on Drugs' is one of the most foolish political strategies in history, IMO.

The USA doesn't seem to be giving this up anytime soon.

and they won't...can u imagine the political backlash.

the only hope is the fact that the younger generation of people seem to be more clued up and in touch with the drug issue.

and as u correctly stated the war on drugs is the biggest waste of money, time, resources and effort ever. All it does it create crime and and death rates.

[Amour Fou]

I'm quite impressed with this list.

But is it my impression or is there something off?

I mean... I had this uneducated impression that some of the most dangerous cities would be in Africa, and the only country that pops up from there is South Africa. No Middle East, no Asia as well...

Quite impressive that the great majority of it lies within the Americas.

I am largely uneducated on the matter, but this comes as a surprise... especially because I've been to a few of these cities and I survived unscratched!

[ElJefe]

(03-04-2012 08:24 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

I'm quite impressed with this list.

But is it my impression or is there something off?

I think a lot of the explanation could be data collection. Dysfunctional African, Afghan or Pakistani governments probably do not keeps very good tabs on the shit that goes down in their areas. Latin American countries probably have better data collection due to better government, however screwy that sounds, not to mention Christians have always been particularly diligent in keeping records of the living and dead.

I had a buddy fly to Nigeria to personally deliver a business contract (oil). They do not even trust DHL to deliver in Lagos. He said they drove him around in an armored car and he saw groups of guys hanging around street corners with assault rifles like it was the most normal thing in the world. Given how absolutely fucked up things are down there, and the sheer population density, I have a hard time believing they are not closer to the top. It makes sense data collection would skew those results.

I have no evidence for this however... just a hypothesis.

[scotian]

I've been in 3 of those cities in the past few months: Kingston, Cali and barranquilla (surprised BAQ is there, I thought it was supposed to be safe?) and will likely hit up another couple more (Medellin, Manizales) before I go back to one of the safest and most boring places on Earth: Canada!

I agree that the drugs thing plays a major role in the violence in SOME of these cities, but I think that is more of a CULTURAL thing!

After 2 months in Colombia, I still don't get it, these people have mad respect for human life in some ways (limited abortion options, children seem to be revered, seemingly healthy birth rate, etc) yet these mofos KILL each other at an insane rate!!! 1650 murders in Bogota last year alone

Jamaica definitely has a violent culture, just listen to a few dance hall songs like Buju Banton's (who is currently locked up in a Florida jail for 10 years) "Boom bye bye" (a song about violently killing gays) or look at Vybez Kartel, the most popular dance hall artist in recent years, who is locked up in a Jamaican prison on double murder charges!

the top three highest murder rates in the world: South Africa, Colombia and Jamaica.....looks like I'll have to hit up SA next to get my triple crown!

[Amour Fou]

Who ought to have a really good say in this is NaughtyNomand, the guy who has the habit of touring minefields and some of the most brutal places in the globe.

My guess is his "top 10 most dangerous cities" would be quite different.

[Mr.GM]

I'm surprised that neither São Paulo nor Rio made it to the top 50. Anyway , the violence is decreasing continuously in Brazil's biggest cities , while growing in 2nd and 3rd tier cities. Maybe thats the reason.

I have read several times that in absolute murder numbers Brazil was more violent than many countries at war (middle east mostly) , so not surprise for me in that sense.

What makes Brazil more "livable" than most middle eastern countries is that here the major violence is mostly confined to ghettos and slums, and at least 80% of the murders are druggang related so if you don't live in this areas nor have involvement in criminal activities the odds that you will be victim of a violent crime decreases considerably , while in the middle east , Africa and other places you have terrorism (random bombings , widespread violence) so the odds to be a victim are higher for the average citizen.

[Mr.GM]

(03-03-2012 12:13 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 12:01 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Really sad. I wonder what does it take to end such an amount of violence in a country.

legalising drugs

(03-03-2012 12:14 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 12:13 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

(03-03-2012 12:01 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Really sad. I wonder what does it take to end such an amount of violence in a country.

legalising drugs

You know, I was thinking about that the other day. And you could probably be right, however I'm not sure how positive the outcome of that would be, specially in a 3rd world country.

I feel we should have a good debate about this.

Trust me , After talking to some specialists in law enforcement here in Brazil (my dad is a journalist so he knows some of those guys)
I started to believe that a full-scale drug legalization would actually increase violence and insecurity among working citizens , because if you don't have jobs(with decent pay) and a functioning economy to replace the drug economy in the poorest neighborhoods most criminals would need to get revenue through increasing the number of ransom kidnapings , bank robbery , car theft and other crimes against ordinary citizens. One of the reasons why the middle-class and the elite doesn't support the legalization of all drugs.

However , legalizing marijuana makes perfectly sense and would at least decrease the number of arrestsesources spent related to pot consumptionselling plus it would create jobs.

[Safado]

I've lived in 3 cities on this list in the last year and I've never felt unsafe living in them. As Mr. GM said, most of the violence is compartmentalized in ghettos and other poor areas. As long as you don't drift into the wrong neighborhoods you should be fine 99% of the time in these places.

[Golden Boy]

GREAT TOPIC/THREAD to start JayMillz. +1 from me, just because of the sheer value and relevance this link brings for most of us frequent travelers on this forum. I will definitely stay the hell out of Guatemala city, and Caracas, and may reconsider going to Cali, (have already been to Medellin and felt safe, as well as Bogota).
Can anyone elaborate or comment WHICH OF THESE CITIES, or any city not on the list, ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS FOR TOURISTS ? For example, i am sure most of the murders in Brazil and Colombia occur due to drugs and might be in the slum area. Therfore, that does not make it dangerous for tourists as long as you are not in any shady areas or involved in any shady dealings. In Medellin, I felt 5 times safer than walking in some neighborhoods in Los Angeles. So, with that said, can anyone elaborate cities to avoid that are popular or semi popular tourist destinations ? For example, would not go to Acapulco and may reconsider Cali ? Thanks for your help ;;;;;

[garygroundwork]

(03-04-2012 04:13 PM)Golden Boy Wrote:  

GREAT TOPIC/THREAD to start JayMillz. +1 from me, just because of the sheer value and relevance this link brings for most of us frequent travelers on this forum. I will definitely stay the hell out of Guatemala city, and Caracas, and may reconsider going to Cali, (have already been to Medellin and felt safe, as well as Bogota).
Can anyone elaborate or comment WHICH OF THESE CITIES, or any city not on the list, ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS FOR TOURISTS ? For example, i am sure most of the murders in Brazil and Colombia occur due to drugs and might be in the slum area. Therfore, that does not make it dangerous for tourists as long as you are not in any shady areas or involved in any shady dealings. In Medellin, I felt 5 times safer than walking in some neighborhoods in Los Angeles. So, with that said, can anyone elaborate cities to avoid that are popular or semi popular tourist destinations ? For example, would not go to Acapulco and may reconsider Cali ? Thanks for your help ;;;;;

yep exactly.

but it's funny how many people go to medellin and stay in poblado then go home and rave on about how safe medellin/colombia is. Walk around centro, bello or certain areas areas of itagui or any of the pueblos on the hill after dark and see how long u last.

so stick to the safe areas and u shouldnt have a problem if u use common sense.

[Golden Boy]

[quote] (03-05-2012 04:09 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

[quote='Golden Boy' pid='171677' dateline='1330895629']
GREAT TOPIC/THREAD to start JayMillz. +1 from me, just because of the sheer value and relevance this link brings for most of us frequent travelers on this forum. I will definitely stay the hell out of Guatemala city, and Caracas, and may reconsider going to Cali, (have already been to Medellin and felt safe, as well as Bogota).
Can anyone elaborate or comment WHICH OF THESE CITIES, or any city not on the list, ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS FOR TOURISTS ? For example, i am sure most of the murders in Brazil and Colombia occur due to drugs and might be in the slum area. Therfore, that does not make it dangerous for tourists as long as you are not in any shady areas or involved in any shady dealings. In Medellin, I felt 5 times safer than walking in some neighborhoods in Los Angeles. So, with that said, can anyone elaborate cities to avoid that are popular or semi popular tourist destinations ? For example, would not go to Acapulco and may reconsider Cali ? Thanks for your help ;;;;;[/quote]

yep exactly.

garygroundwork wrote:
but it's funny how many people go to medellin and stay in poblado then go home and rave on about how safe medellin/colombia is. Walk around centro, bello or certain areas areas of itagui or any of the pueblos on the hill after dark and see how long u last.

so stick to the safe areas and u shouldnt have a problem if u use common sense.

Golden Boy wrote:
I agree G...., you must stay in the safe areas of any major city or state; i recommend doing research on the internet as to what areas are safe in any city as some are much more dangerous than others. Whats weird, is that in many blogs and surveys, Medellin is still ranked as one of the most dangerous cities in the world (in top 20). If you stay in Poblado, Parque Lleras, etc. yes, its safe. I would not venture into other areas at night. The action is in these areas anyway. No thank you, i will not venture into any of those areas you mentioned....