Evening, gents.
I’ve gotten a lot of value from this forum over the years, both information- and entertainment-wise, so I reckon it’s time now to give something back.
As I’ve noticed there’s a trend towards more in-depth data sheets, and as I’ve now put in some pretty serious time overseas, I figured I’d drop some comprehensive, big-picture info on Peru, a country often visited by the globe-trotting poon warriors here at RVF—and, in my view, often misunderstood.
Hopefully it’ll help with that project we’re all involved in, finding and slaying quality.
First, though, a bit about me. Physically, I’m well north of 30, tall, in reasonable shape but not a gym rat, with a type that Peruvian chicks tend to like. I’ve lived in Lima for several years, speak fluent Spanish, and generally take an interest in the culture and history of the place, apart from just the chicas. I’d say my game with Peruvian girls is pretty decent, but also that at this stage of my life, I’m more about quality than quantity—i.e., I’m more interested in mini- or even full-on relationships, with gals who bring real value to the table, than in banging Tindersluts in the 5 to 6 range. Not that one-night stands and flings don’t interest me, but just now they’re not a priority.
Your goals are different? More power to you. Just wanted to get my perspectives and prejudices out there at the get-go.
A word about sample size. I go out with, on average, one new girl every week. This means I’ve dated some 200 girls in my time here, almost all of which have been at least 6s or above (I aim at 7s and 8s). Obviously, a huge number have flaked or otherwise gone south, and I’ve only banged a percentage of the ones that haven’t. But this large sample has helped me understand the culture, and generally get into these girls’ heads, in a way I wouldn’t have otherwise.
I bring this up because hopefully, it’ll illuminate some aspects of the psychology down here for y’all, as well.
And oh yeah, a disclaimer. I’m going to do some serious generalizing here. And generalizations, by their nature, admit of exceptions.
Now, some preliminaries.
THE CULTURE
I could talk about the ins and outs of Peruvian culture for forever and a day, but for banging girls there are six key traits you need to know. These affect your game strategy, as you’ll see.
1. La viveza criolla: Viveza is an untranslatable word that means something like “cunning” or “sharpness.” A person is vivo if he capitalizes on opportunities and doesn’t let others walk all over him, but being vivo also means lying, cheating, and generally using others for personal gain.
In Peru, viveza is frequently seen as something praiseworthy. If you get a job unfairly, or con someone out of money, or jack up the price for a tourist because he or she doesn’t know what things are worth, your friends will slap you on the back and say, “Oye, ¡qué vivo eres!” Obviously, not all folks are sharpers, but the fact is that viveza is deeply woven into the culture and makes relationships fraught with risk. (And not just here, but in the rest of Latin America as well.)
The upshot? When you deal with a Peruvian, you’re dealing with someone who likely experiences exploitation on a daily basis—and therefore feels justified in exploiting in return. Here, bosses make you work unpaid overtime, taxi drivers try to rob you, workers steal from you, men and women cheat on each other, friends and family members borrow money and never pay it back. It’s the law of the jungle, to a degree that most Americans, with their strong legal system and internalized codes of conduct, simply are not equipped to understand. This is bad enough, but what makes it worse is that oftentimes, even the folks who want to be decent end up warped by the corrosive moral environment. That, or seriously bitter.
There’s a saying here: “El peor enemigo de un peruano es otro peruano.” The worst enemy of a Peruvian is another Peruvian. Truer words were never spoken.
2. Low trust: Not surprisingly, this means Peru is a low-trust society—one of the lowest in the world. This survey puts it third from the bottom: http://www.pewglobal.org/2008/04/15/wher...-are-low/. Put simply, the assumption most Peruvians walk around with is that all people are liars, cheaters, and con artists, until they prove themselves otherwise.
Very often, that proof never comes. Given that not just strangers, but also friends and even family members routinely screw each other over, you’d be a fool not to be at least somewhat mistrustful here. The problem, though, is that this creates a constant climate of fear that at times borders on paranoia. And with women, doubly so. Despite Lima’s comparatively low crime rates, most girls are suspicious of strangers, and frequently flat-out terrified of going around the city alone.
3. Conservatism: While Latin culture in general is more conservative than its Anglo counterpart, Peru takes this conservatism to another level. Even among Latinos, it has a rep for being more traditional, less modern or European than Chile, Mexico, Colombia, or Argentina. This means two things: one, there’s no one-night-stand culture here, and two, banging girls takes time.
Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying you can’t bang girls within hours of meeting them. You can; I’ve done it myself. But generally, most girls aren’t willing to go home with a guy from the disco the same night. The typical peruana wants to fuck, but she wants to do so in the context of some kind of relationship. Players here therefore know they usually need to invest several dates in a flaca before getting into her pants.
A footnote, though. The new generation may be different. One Peruvian player I respect says that today’s 18- to 22-year olds are much sluttier than their elders. He may be right: I have some experiences bearing this out. However, since I don’t usually target chicks in the 20-year-old range, I don’t have enough data to confirm. Cultures don’t usually undergo radical shifts in five to ten years, but the influence of Western technology and values may be making itself felt. I’ll report back as I learn more.
4. Machismo: The essence of machismo is sharply defined sex roles. Men are men, and women are women. In theory, this sounds great, especially in gender-confused America, land of butch mansters and feminist, neckbearded men. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always play out so well.
In Peru, machismo usually means that mothers favor and so coddle their sons, turning them into lame, entitled betas. These betas then go on to impose their own inadequacy-based neuroses on the women. So, in a land of machismo, where men are supposed to be strong, confident, etc., you have a lot of vaguely prickish, not-very-manly dudes who try to wheedle or beg their way into a girl’s coochie. Added to which, many of them are insanely jealous and insecure, and forbid their girlfriends to go out dancing or wear revealing clothes in the street. The result: many women are afraid to express their sensuality lest they look like sluts.
The bottom line: machismo in practice typically means unmanly men and uptight women.
I will say this, though. When Peruvian guys have game, they can be very good indeed. Last night, I was at a salsa club and saw a 21-year-old barrio kid swoop the prettiest girl in the place with some serious dance moves. Handsome, stylish, or graceful he was not, but he had her moving and laughing, and his kino was first-rate. Ten minutes in, she was leaving slug trails on the dance floor.
5. Education: Peru’s educational system is a train wreck; there’s no other word for it. A recent study put it almost dead last in a list of some 70 countries, below even the rest of Latin America, which is generally shit, educationally speaking (http://www2.minedu.gob.pe/umc/PISA/Pisa2...oPDF.pdf). Incompetent teachers, obstructionist unions, lack of technology, uneducated university professors, you name it, Peru’s got it.
And that’s not all. Nature as well as culture has conspired to make Peruvians dumb. The national IQ average is 85, meaning retard level is just one standard deviation away. And since books are astronomically expensive and there are no public libraries, folks can’t get educated even if they have some brains and do want to study. Hence you’ll get messages from chicks like “sOy tU loKiTa, haBEr si noS Bemos, JAja.” I’ve only been studying Spanish a few years, and I routinely use non-complicated Spanish words many Peruvians have never heard of. If you come here, prepare to feel your brain hurting after a while.
6. Family dysfunction: Lots of gringos have a rosy picture of Latin America as a good, wholesome place where family still comes first. In some ways, it is. But mostly at the level of “should be.” At the level of “is,” things are very different.
Statistics tell the story. According to recent data, Peruvians have one of the lowest marriage rates in the world: 2.8 marriages per 1,000 people (the comparable number for the much-maligned U.S. is 32.8). In Peru, 70 percent of kids are born out of wedlock (in contrast, in mega-dysfunctional black America, the rate is 75 percent) (http://elcomercio.pe/sociedad/lima/peru-...-1328012).
What does this mean in practice? It means that in Lima and elsewhere, you have a landscape littered with emotional casualties: single moms, deadbeat dads, traumatized kids, men with secret “parallel” families in another town, grandparents raising children, and the rest. Peruvians may pay lip service to family, but the reality is that folks here fuck, live together for a while, spawn, then separate, with very few permanent bonds to unite them.
The consequences for the next generation are exactly what you’d expect: depression, withdrawal, low expectations regarding relationships. I know many, many attractive women who, without ever saying so openly, more or less take it for granted that a lasting marriage simply isn’t in the cards. The social deck is stacked against them. But then, poverty, terrorism, and five centuries of bad government are never good for family togetherness.
I’ve gotten a lot of value from this forum over the years, both information- and entertainment-wise, so I reckon it’s time now to give something back.
As I’ve noticed there’s a trend towards more in-depth data sheets, and as I’ve now put in some pretty serious time overseas, I figured I’d drop some comprehensive, big-picture info on Peru, a country often visited by the globe-trotting poon warriors here at RVF—and, in my view, often misunderstood.
Hopefully it’ll help with that project we’re all involved in, finding and slaying quality.
First, though, a bit about me. Physically, I’m well north of 30, tall, in reasonable shape but not a gym rat, with a type that Peruvian chicks tend to like. I’ve lived in Lima for several years, speak fluent Spanish, and generally take an interest in the culture and history of the place, apart from just the chicas. I’d say my game with Peruvian girls is pretty decent, but also that at this stage of my life, I’m more about quality than quantity—i.e., I’m more interested in mini- or even full-on relationships, with gals who bring real value to the table, than in banging Tindersluts in the 5 to 6 range. Not that one-night stands and flings don’t interest me, but just now they’re not a priority.
Your goals are different? More power to you. Just wanted to get my perspectives and prejudices out there at the get-go.
A word about sample size. I go out with, on average, one new girl every week. This means I’ve dated some 200 girls in my time here, almost all of which have been at least 6s or above (I aim at 7s and 8s). Obviously, a huge number have flaked or otherwise gone south, and I’ve only banged a percentage of the ones that haven’t. But this large sample has helped me understand the culture, and generally get into these girls’ heads, in a way I wouldn’t have otherwise.
I bring this up because hopefully, it’ll illuminate some aspects of the psychology down here for y’all, as well.
And oh yeah, a disclaimer. I’m going to do some serious generalizing here. And generalizations, by their nature, admit of exceptions.
Now, some preliminaries.
THE CULTURE
I could talk about the ins and outs of Peruvian culture for forever and a day, but for banging girls there are six key traits you need to know. These affect your game strategy, as you’ll see.
1. La viveza criolla: Viveza is an untranslatable word that means something like “cunning” or “sharpness.” A person is vivo if he capitalizes on opportunities and doesn’t let others walk all over him, but being vivo also means lying, cheating, and generally using others for personal gain.
In Peru, viveza is frequently seen as something praiseworthy. If you get a job unfairly, or con someone out of money, or jack up the price for a tourist because he or she doesn’t know what things are worth, your friends will slap you on the back and say, “Oye, ¡qué vivo eres!” Obviously, not all folks are sharpers, but the fact is that viveza is deeply woven into the culture and makes relationships fraught with risk. (And not just here, but in the rest of Latin America as well.)
The upshot? When you deal with a Peruvian, you’re dealing with someone who likely experiences exploitation on a daily basis—and therefore feels justified in exploiting in return. Here, bosses make you work unpaid overtime, taxi drivers try to rob you, workers steal from you, men and women cheat on each other, friends and family members borrow money and never pay it back. It’s the law of the jungle, to a degree that most Americans, with their strong legal system and internalized codes of conduct, simply are not equipped to understand. This is bad enough, but what makes it worse is that oftentimes, even the folks who want to be decent end up warped by the corrosive moral environment. That, or seriously bitter.
There’s a saying here: “El peor enemigo de un peruano es otro peruano.” The worst enemy of a Peruvian is another Peruvian. Truer words were never spoken.
2. Low trust: Not surprisingly, this means Peru is a low-trust society—one of the lowest in the world. This survey puts it third from the bottom: http://www.pewglobal.org/2008/04/15/wher...-are-low/. Put simply, the assumption most Peruvians walk around with is that all people are liars, cheaters, and con artists, until they prove themselves otherwise.
Very often, that proof never comes. Given that not just strangers, but also friends and even family members routinely screw each other over, you’d be a fool not to be at least somewhat mistrustful here. The problem, though, is that this creates a constant climate of fear that at times borders on paranoia. And with women, doubly so. Despite Lima’s comparatively low crime rates, most girls are suspicious of strangers, and frequently flat-out terrified of going around the city alone.
3. Conservatism: While Latin culture in general is more conservative than its Anglo counterpart, Peru takes this conservatism to another level. Even among Latinos, it has a rep for being more traditional, less modern or European than Chile, Mexico, Colombia, or Argentina. This means two things: one, there’s no one-night-stand culture here, and two, banging girls takes time.
Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying you can’t bang girls within hours of meeting them. You can; I’ve done it myself. But generally, most girls aren’t willing to go home with a guy from the disco the same night. The typical peruana wants to fuck, but she wants to do so in the context of some kind of relationship. Players here therefore know they usually need to invest several dates in a flaca before getting into her pants.
A footnote, though. The new generation may be different. One Peruvian player I respect says that today’s 18- to 22-year olds are much sluttier than their elders. He may be right: I have some experiences bearing this out. However, since I don’t usually target chicks in the 20-year-old range, I don’t have enough data to confirm. Cultures don’t usually undergo radical shifts in five to ten years, but the influence of Western technology and values may be making itself felt. I’ll report back as I learn more.
4. Machismo: The essence of machismo is sharply defined sex roles. Men are men, and women are women. In theory, this sounds great, especially in gender-confused America, land of butch mansters and feminist, neckbearded men. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always play out so well.
In Peru, machismo usually means that mothers favor and so coddle their sons, turning them into lame, entitled betas. These betas then go on to impose their own inadequacy-based neuroses on the women. So, in a land of machismo, where men are supposed to be strong, confident, etc., you have a lot of vaguely prickish, not-very-manly dudes who try to wheedle or beg their way into a girl’s coochie. Added to which, many of them are insanely jealous and insecure, and forbid their girlfriends to go out dancing or wear revealing clothes in the street. The result: many women are afraid to express their sensuality lest they look like sluts.
The bottom line: machismo in practice typically means unmanly men and uptight women.
I will say this, though. When Peruvian guys have game, they can be very good indeed. Last night, I was at a salsa club and saw a 21-year-old barrio kid swoop the prettiest girl in the place with some serious dance moves. Handsome, stylish, or graceful he was not, but he had her moving and laughing, and his kino was first-rate. Ten minutes in, she was leaving slug trails on the dance floor.
5. Education: Peru’s educational system is a train wreck; there’s no other word for it. A recent study put it almost dead last in a list of some 70 countries, below even the rest of Latin America, which is generally shit, educationally speaking (http://www2.minedu.gob.pe/umc/PISA/Pisa2...oPDF.pdf). Incompetent teachers, obstructionist unions, lack of technology, uneducated university professors, you name it, Peru’s got it.
And that’s not all. Nature as well as culture has conspired to make Peruvians dumb. The national IQ average is 85, meaning retard level is just one standard deviation away. And since books are astronomically expensive and there are no public libraries, folks can’t get educated even if they have some brains and do want to study. Hence you’ll get messages from chicks like “sOy tU loKiTa, haBEr si noS Bemos, JAja.” I’ve only been studying Spanish a few years, and I routinely use non-complicated Spanish words many Peruvians have never heard of. If you come here, prepare to feel your brain hurting after a while.
6. Family dysfunction: Lots of gringos have a rosy picture of Latin America as a good, wholesome place where family still comes first. In some ways, it is. But mostly at the level of “should be.” At the level of “is,” things are very different.
Statistics tell the story. According to recent data, Peruvians have one of the lowest marriage rates in the world: 2.8 marriages per 1,000 people (the comparable number for the much-maligned U.S. is 32.8). In Peru, 70 percent of kids are born out of wedlock (in contrast, in mega-dysfunctional black America, the rate is 75 percent) (http://elcomercio.pe/sociedad/lima/peru-...-1328012).
What does this mean in practice? It means that in Lima and elsewhere, you have a landscape littered with emotional casualties: single moms, deadbeat dads, traumatized kids, men with secret “parallel” families in another town, grandparents raising children, and the rest. Peruvians may pay lip service to family, but the reality is that folks here fuck, live together for a while, spawn, then separate, with very few permanent bonds to unite them.
The consequences for the next generation are exactly what you’d expect: depression, withdrawal, low expectations regarding relationships. I know many, many attractive women who, without ever saying so openly, more or less take it for granted that a lasting marriage simply isn’t in the cards. The social deck is stacked against them. But then, poverty, terrorism, and five centuries of bad government are never good for family togetherness.