Thanks everyone for the reps and props. Happy to add some value and help however I can. Also appreciate the questions as it helps me add more. Overall, the responses motivate me to do this more often.
Thanks Hans. Sending you a reply to your PM.
The Practical difference depends on your goals and it depends on the mood and mix of the decision makers that decide who gets the job. Additionally, it depends on how early you engage these fucks (as I noted in the Recruiting section above). The answer will also be a bit different based on the path you take.
The decision makers in a Corporation (as opposed to Accounting firm/Big 4) for an Accounting (not Tax) position are more likely to give a higher weight to credentials like a Master's whereas a smart and socially adept decision maker at the Big 4 would tend to lean more towards your social skills (e.g. extra curricular activities, travel, etc.).
I was one of the decision makers many times at the Big 4 and I could easily make the case about how one cat has a masters in accounting but he didn't do shit else as far as extra-curricular activities. Sure he has a 4.0 GPA but what else is he bringing to the table? And what kind of vibe did he give. I remember talking about how engaging one of the guys I interviewed was and how excited he was to talk about his travels. I added that I see him as a leader on an engagement team due to his assertiveness. On the other hand, there have also been people that have been painted as the "workers" and still got hired because they are needed. That round table can be an interesting one and I can write a whole article about how that works. I talked to a girl that I rated real low one time but a Partner (female) went to the same school so she got hired. This is true.
Just keep in mind that GPA and CPA get you in the door but good connections (interviews included) win the job. Don't worry about a Master's as much as you worry about making connections in college. Even though both are great, one is more relevant than the other. You don't want some dude that got "counseled out" of the Big 4 and hated it because he didn't get promoted to partner to say that this guy doesn't have a master's. Some of these guys can get real bitter. I know at least one.
This being said, if you are pursuing a Tax position, get a Masters in Taxation period. I feel you may NEED that to even get your foot in the door of a Tax Practice in the Big 4 or large Corporations. Tax laws are complicated across the world and you don't learn enough about them in a 4 year Bachelor's program. That extra year is to drill that shit into your head so you can apply better. The Audit practice is not like that and material can be covered in a good 4 year program.
I think I covered that above but I'll shoot out an example to make it clear.
Dude A starts off as a Staff Accountant at Playboy because he didn't want to deal with the Big 4 hours. He said he wanted to have a life and didn't want to waste 60 hours a week at the Big 4. Instead he works 40 hours a week at Playboy and goes out to bars and parties when he gets off at 5 pm. He games hard and gets laid but has to put in a lot of work. 6 years pass. This guy is a senior accountant and he learned a lot about system A and system B since there are a lot of transactions at Playboy that pass through those systems and there had to be dedicated person to take care of that. He's great at what he does. However, he didn't learn shit about systems C through Z that complete the financial reporting of Playboy. A manager position opens up. He applies BUT doesn't get it. Why? Because he doesn't have an expansive enough knowledge (which he could have gotten as a result of being at the Big 4 doing Audit) about every single aspect of Playboy's financial accounting.
Dude B flirted with one of the recruiters that came to his school. He had a lower GPA but was in a social frat as well as a business frat (e.g. Beta Alpha Psi). He got an internship at the Big 4. At the end of the internship, the Big 4 took him to Disneyworld for a "Leadership Conference" (Yeah...). Over there, he fucked some Big 4 girls from Eastern Europe since it was an "International" Internship Conference. He didn't fuck up the internship and laughed off all of the pranks his audit teams played on him. So he got a job offer and took it. He spends 6 years auditing Playboy, while going to awesome lunches and dinners and hanging around Playboy execs. In 5 years, he was managing most portions of the Playboy audit for the Big 4. He fucked some of the hotter girls at the Big 4 that he gamed at the Happy Hours and social events that he didn't pay for. He also kept in touch with every single person he worked for and with. He knew the Company's financial situation better than the Controller did. At the 6 year mark, he was being highly sought out by larger companies in the area. His phone rang off the hook from recruiters trying to place him that he had to tell a lot of them to fuck off. Remember that position I told you about that Dude A applied for. They interviewed Dude B and saw that he was being pursued by other big firms. So..Well, Dude B got it. And guess who the hiring manager was? One of the guys he worked for as an intern that played pranks on him every day. The hiring manager said that he really liked working with Dude B back in the day. Oh and you know there are parties at the Playboy mansion, like the ones where Hugh goes all out? He got to go there when he was on the Big 4 team of Playboy. This scenario was "inspired" by many a true story, of course certain details changed to protect the innocent.![[Image: smile.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Keep in mind, Dude B could have also gone the Partner route and probably made better money from the profits from his projects than a CFO ever could.
Not saying Corporate is not the way to go but expect to give up a lot (especially solid connections with future CFOs and partners of Big 4) if you go that route.
I spent almost 7 years in a Big 4 and did just fine. I was lucky enough to have made some amazing connections in the NYC and Chicago markets of the industry. I won't put any names here. I started a family at the end and that was my priority. So I took my connections and did the Corporate hustle for another 3 years. Ran into a lot of true tool boxes and desk jockeys there and a few genuine players.
However, Corporate wanted to turn me into a desk jockey as well (like they always do). So I decided to make a transition out of it. I was sick of staring at Spreadsheets instead of talking to clients and hanging around cute girls at the Big 4. I decided, after weighing pros and cons of going back into the Big 4 to go into the recruiting business in the industry. I realized I have solid connections and can make a good living off of the hiring market by supplementing that with the knowledge I accumulated. I'm not going to wait for someone in Corporate to tell me that I need another 2 years to be Controller or another 5 years to be CFO. I'd rather make a living from talking to people, taking them out and giving them some value. Without the almost 10 years in the Accounting world, I don't think I would have been able to do well in the recruiting hustle.
Firstly, CR, thanks for the kind words. You've been a solid fan of mine for a while and trust me the feeling is mutual.
Well 60+ hours at a Big 4 office is different from 60+ at a desk in Corporate. In the Big 4, you're spending those 60 hours talking to experienced people and learning how to socially interact in addition to learning about their big ass business. You're also surrounded by hot girls in the office on Saturday mornings (since you have to come in for the most part) that haven't been banged since they were also working 60+ hours. You work hard and play hard at the Big 4 but at Corporate you may work hard but end up playing with your Manager's kids on the weekends.
Quote: (07-10-2014 11:40 AM)Hans Dix Wrote:
Fuck damn how have I not repped you yet
Thanks Hans. Sending you a reply to your PM.
Quote: (07-10-2014 12:07 PM)iop890 Wrote:
Quick question. Any practical difference between getting a master's, and just taking 150 hours of undergrad classes to set for the CPA? Or does it not matter as long as you get the CPA?
I have a cousin that just took extra classes over the summers, graduated with 150 hours, and took the CPA exam immediately. Good idea?
The Practical difference depends on your goals and it depends on the mood and mix of the decision makers that decide who gets the job. Additionally, it depends on how early you engage these fucks (as I noted in the Recruiting section above). The answer will also be a bit different based on the path you take.
The decision makers in a Corporation (as opposed to Accounting firm/Big 4) for an Accounting (not Tax) position are more likely to give a higher weight to credentials like a Master's whereas a smart and socially adept decision maker at the Big 4 would tend to lean more towards your social skills (e.g. extra curricular activities, travel, etc.).
I was one of the decision makers many times at the Big 4 and I could easily make the case about how one cat has a masters in accounting but he didn't do shit else as far as extra-curricular activities. Sure he has a 4.0 GPA but what else is he bringing to the table? And what kind of vibe did he give. I remember talking about how engaging one of the guys I interviewed was and how excited he was to talk about his travels. I added that I see him as a leader on an engagement team due to his assertiveness. On the other hand, there have also been people that have been painted as the "workers" and still got hired because they are needed. That round table can be an interesting one and I can write a whole article about how that works. I talked to a girl that I rated real low one time but a Partner (female) went to the same school so she got hired. This is true.
Just keep in mind that GPA and CPA get you in the door but good connections (interviews included) win the job. Don't worry about a Master's as much as you worry about making connections in college. Even though both are great, one is more relevant than the other. You don't want some dude that got "counseled out" of the Big 4 and hated it because he didn't get promoted to partner to say that this guy doesn't have a master's. Some of these guys can get real bitter. I know at least one.
This being said, if you are pursuing a Tax position, get a Masters in Taxation period. I feel you may NEED that to even get your foot in the door of a Tax Practice in the Big 4 or large Corporations. Tax laws are complicated across the world and you don't learn enough about them in a 4 year Bachelor's program. That extra year is to drill that shit into your head so you can apply better. The Audit practice is not like that and material can be covered in a good 4 year program.
Quote: (07-10-2014 03:48 PM)pt8498 Wrote:
Thanks for the post, it explains a lot. From reading it seems like one must get a CPA, have great game/social skills, and work in the Big 4 to get most out of an accounting career, assuming the goal is to work as an accountant for 7+ years. What are the pros and cons of industry/corporate versus public accounting? Or is the "Big 4/CFO/Partner" path the best route for a career in accounting and anything less shouldn't be considered?
I think I covered that above but I'll shoot out an example to make it clear.
Dude A starts off as a Staff Accountant at Playboy because he didn't want to deal with the Big 4 hours. He said he wanted to have a life and didn't want to waste 60 hours a week at the Big 4. Instead he works 40 hours a week at Playboy and goes out to bars and parties when he gets off at 5 pm. He games hard and gets laid but has to put in a lot of work. 6 years pass. This guy is a senior accountant and he learned a lot about system A and system B since there are a lot of transactions at Playboy that pass through those systems and there had to be dedicated person to take care of that. He's great at what he does. However, he didn't learn shit about systems C through Z that complete the financial reporting of Playboy. A manager position opens up. He applies BUT doesn't get it. Why? Because he doesn't have an expansive enough knowledge (which he could have gotten as a result of being at the Big 4 doing Audit) about every single aspect of Playboy's financial accounting.
Dude B flirted with one of the recruiters that came to his school. He had a lower GPA but was in a social frat as well as a business frat (e.g. Beta Alpha Psi). He got an internship at the Big 4. At the end of the internship, the Big 4 took him to Disneyworld for a "Leadership Conference" (Yeah...). Over there, he fucked some Big 4 girls from Eastern Europe since it was an "International" Internship Conference. He didn't fuck up the internship and laughed off all of the pranks his audit teams played on him. So he got a job offer and took it. He spends 6 years auditing Playboy, while going to awesome lunches and dinners and hanging around Playboy execs. In 5 years, he was managing most portions of the Playboy audit for the Big 4. He fucked some of the hotter girls at the Big 4 that he gamed at the Happy Hours and social events that he didn't pay for. He also kept in touch with every single person he worked for and with. He knew the Company's financial situation better than the Controller did. At the 6 year mark, he was being highly sought out by larger companies in the area. His phone rang off the hook from recruiters trying to place him that he had to tell a lot of them to fuck off. Remember that position I told you about that Dude A applied for. They interviewed Dude B and saw that he was being pursued by other big firms. So..Well, Dude B got it. And guess who the hiring manager was? One of the guys he worked for as an intern that played pranks on him every day. The hiring manager said that he really liked working with Dude B back in the day. Oh and you know there are parties at the Playboy mansion, like the ones where Hugh goes all out? He got to go there when he was on the Big 4 team of Playboy. This scenario was "inspired" by many a true story, of course certain details changed to protect the innocent.
Keep in mind, Dude B could have also gone the Partner route and probably made better money from the profits from his projects than a CFO ever could.
Not saying Corporate is not the way to go but expect to give up a lot (especially solid connections with future CFOs and partners of Big 4) if you go that route.
Quote: (07-10-2014 05:49 PM)Macklin Wrote:
For Cobra, are you still working in accounting and what area do you work in? You laid out the general framework well but it's interesting to see the path people take after leaving the Big 4.
I spent almost 7 years in a Big 4 and did just fine. I was lucky enough to have made some amazing connections in the NYC and Chicago markets of the industry. I won't put any names here. I started a family at the end and that was my priority. So I took my connections and did the Corporate hustle for another 3 years. Ran into a lot of true tool boxes and desk jockeys there and a few genuine players.
However, Corporate wanted to turn me into a desk jockey as well (like they always do). So I decided to make a transition out of it. I was sick of staring at Spreadsheets instead of talking to clients and hanging around cute girls at the Big 4. I decided, after weighing pros and cons of going back into the Big 4 to go into the recruiting business in the industry. I realized I have solid connections and can make a good living off of the hiring market by supplementing that with the knowledge I accumulated. I'm not going to wait for someone in Corporate to tell me that I need another 2 years to be Controller or another 5 years to be CFO. I'd rather make a living from talking to people, taking them out and giving them some value. Without the almost 10 years in the Accounting world, I don't think I would have been able to do well in the recruiting hustle.
Quote: (07-10-2014 06:38 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:
Mind telling us how does one survive 60+ hours at the office? I was going apeshit doing 63 a week PLUS being on-call 1 week a month.
Firstly, CR, thanks for the kind words. You've been a solid fan of mine for a while and trust me the feeling is mutual.
Well 60+ hours at a Big 4 office is different from 60+ at a desk in Corporate. In the Big 4, you're spending those 60 hours talking to experienced people and learning how to socially interact in addition to learning about their big ass business. You're also surrounded by hot girls in the office on Saturday mornings (since you have to come in for the most part) that haven't been banged since they were also working 60+ hours. You work hard and play hard at the Big 4 but at Corporate you may work hard but end up playing with your Manager's kids on the weekends.