Quote: (08-04-2011 02:02 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:
Really, 'nice guys' aren't that nice; they're just acting 'nice' to try to get pussy. At least the badboy is honest with himself and the chicks he deals with.
Quote: (08-08-2011 04:51 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:
That "nice guys are not actually nice but are just doing it to get pussy" (which fails) is one of the most common rationalizations girls provide for liking assholes. Sure, some nice guys are. But most just do not have an agenda - being nice is natural to them, how they were raised and educated, and they have an understanding of the world that expects most people (women too) will be nice to them in return if they are nice first. Sadly, it doesn't work out that way.
However, I still don't like presenting them as some kind of manipulators. They are just lost in a modern world, and 50 years ago all of them would have made a great catch. I think they're victims of the system.
These posts are in total disagreement with one another. And Nonpareil's is wrong. Nice guys aren't cynical manipulators deep down. Yes, they think being nice is just the right, respectful way to do it. They've been nice all their life, it's who they are. Some lack self-esteem and the confidence to be overtly sexual. Or they believe 'that's no way to treat a woman.'
The biggest flaw with the nice guy is that he looks to the woman as his redemption from celibacy and loneliness, as his source of excitement and joy. This is too great a burden for any woman. The jerk is content to amuse himself, at the woman's expense if need be. The difference is evident in their body language: the chump listens attentively to her every word, while the jerk stares off listlessly, yet commands her gaze when he speaks. The chump wants an equal partner, the jerk a groupie.
We are the cynical manipulators. We are the ones scrutinizing our every move to obtain a successful seduction. And I don't have a problem with that. But we are in it only for ourselves. And this is why sluts respect us. It is as if, deep down they know they are worthless, so any man who respects them is a desperate sap.
Eel identifies Nonpareil's idea as a weak rationalization, and that's exactly what it is. There's no need to rationalize the choices of women. They're flawed, and players profit. Do players hurt women? More than nice guys? Almost assuredly, because women let them.
Putting others before yourself can be laudable, but it's anathema to seducing women. Women respect are aroused by a man who only respects himself.
In response to Athlone, attractive women are so averse to respect from a man that I would define pedestalization, in real terms, as:
Pedestalize: To suggest that one wants more than just sex.
To avoid putting her on the pedestal: You must show you are ready to walk at a moment's notice; you must not care if she disappears entirely from your life.