Quote: (11-25-2018 11:13 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:
1. I, and everyone here, completely understand the defeatist path. There's nothing mysterious about it. Again, game is hard. Harder today than before. And like you later mention about your father, the solution is not to hide, but to make something of yourself, forge yourself into something of value. We can never forget, the great advantage of being born a man is being able to build our value up even if we're ugly AF. If a woman is born ugly AF, she has very little recourse compared to what we men can do for ourselves.
2. Finding women uninteresting is completely at odds with what you say later, that we want love from them. Why would we want love from something that isn't interesting, or can't capture our attention? Women don't have to try hard. The chase is up to us men. Again, we all know that. Here's a different spin on it that's less defeatist.
I liken it to eating a fast food burger. They're very tasty on the surface because the grease and salt all go straight to pumping out dopamine. But if you take a second to actually taste the meat, it's bland and flavorless aside from salt and grease.
I have an emotional desire for validation from women, but logically I am aware that they really don't offer me very much. So I get pangs of loneliness every now and then (craving that burger) but when I actually try to interact with women they really disgust me. Part of it is their complete lack of enthusiasm since I'm still unattractive. Right now I'm focusing on fitness and just gaming when the opportunity arises. But that's just me.
Quote: (11-25-2018 11:13 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:
Patrice O'Neal used to say men get famous just to get even with beautiful women. Beautiful women get stopped on the street all the time. Men? Only if they're famous.
YES. Attractive women are born with the great fortune of not having to be interesting and successful to garner attention. But we as men are born with the gift to acquire interesting-ness and success rather than being born with it.
As for women actually being boring...
If a guy doesn't find women interesting, and their psychology fascinating, even in their 'simplicity'... it is unlikely this guy would have the thirst, the wherewithal, the ingenuity to try and solve the puzzle that is attracting women. I've heard so many women tell me they really enjoyed my "curiosity" after we talked about that quality in relationships. Believing "women are boring" is dangerous because, even though it can be funny, it can also be self defeatist and, frankly, hypocritical. Something about them must sure be captivating if we want to be around them.
I've been on a few dates where the women cannot talk about anything beyond what they're watching on netflix. More likely it's that the only women that are on my level right now are the boring ones. Getting countless "I don't know" or "nothing really" answers when I try to find out what these girls like, what they do, or what they think about is just not worth my effort.
I'm sorry to say that my experience on this front gives me even more evidence of the halo effect. The same women that would enjoy your curiosity might find my curiosity to be "inappropriate" or "too forward." I'm reasonably convinced that for me (and presumably this guy) that the key is just making yourself look better and the personality that women find "creepy" will eventually become "quirky" instead.
Quote: (11-25-2018 11:13 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:
If you want to go down the path of highlighting my own insecurities, you are more than welcome to.
I'm not sure if you're insinuating that I believe this forum is beyond reproach or is perfect, my statements in my previous posts were actually tongue in cheek. I haven't posted here for years for a reason, this forum has changed a whooooole lot since I first joined and was most active. Something you would have no idea about, unless you lurked way back when.
Let's just say, from when I first started, this forum has veered closer and closer in themes and tones to that incel forum. The attitude to improve ourselves as men has lost traction, with other topics not related to game becoming a lot more popular.
Like I said, I understand the woe-is-me sentiment. But tapping out is not the answer. The answer is to take all this shit in stride. And move forward...
This was not a personal attack on you, but a comment on the general mindset of what I see on this forum. For example, at one point I remember seeing a list of thing that only beta men do and that list included something like "don't eat a girl out because it makes you submissive." That degree of sensitivity to appearing beta is not a healthy thing. I saw a thread about what hobbies are good for getting laid and some posts were warning away from "beta" hobbies, like videogames. One said that he lies to women that see his console and says "I just use it to play sports games."
That's the kind of insecurity I mean. If owning up to my nerdy hobbies and the things I enjoy makes me a beta and repulses women, then I guess I'm looking at monk mode for the rest of my life. Self improvement in the pursuit of women is a good thing, self-denial is not.
Quote: (11-26-2018 10:32 AM)Jefferson Wrote:
Absolutely right, there's too much negativity generally.
@ Professor When "Society does push them down that path."
When you get pushed you pull. You don't just accept getting pushed. You decide. Sure, some of us were born luckier. I had an 8 face when I was younger, though a 6 body (too skinny), I was the college basketball star, my parents had horses, my father worked in large nightclub, where I spent every night on summer vacations. I should have been killing it with women. In reality I would be lucky to win an approach now and then, though girls were interested it was hard work to work out the dynamics of interpersonal relations with girls. Looks or social standing make very little difference in that regard ONCE you are in with a girl. As it happened a girl picked me, then another one, I reproduced already, but I'm struggling with the same issues of 'how do women work'. I approach, I get interest, I get numbers, but rarely do I get a lay. Even guys like Giovanny or Corsega, admit that most of the approaches do not work. But you don't just whine about society, you keep going and do the best you can.
Society helps you, it nurtures you, it provides what you need. Sure, it can be a bully and beat you down now and then, but you just got to have the confidence that you can do what you need to do. Despite the inevitable failures.
Don't let them get you down.
It goes deeper than just approaches and women being bitchy with inflated egos. It goes right down to the core of indoctrination through schools and adults telling children how the world works. Most of it can be boiled down to "girls are special, boys are trash." It's about boys being raised believing that they are wrong, that they are the enemy.
It took me a long time to realize that I had a support system from my father, but most boys don't have even that. Many boys are either the products of single mothers (I think we're up to 40% in the US) or they have spineless fathers that make them equally spineless. I learned in my early childhood that any risk I take is met with disapproval and failure. It was hard to overcome that mindset, especially since that is the reality for me when dealing with women.
Sure, whining isn't going to help, but it is the first step in acknowledging that things are fucked up. There's a difference between saying that things are bad, here's how you adapt vs. telling him it's all his fault for his negativity.