[coffeedrinker]

(06-15-2018 09:15 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:  

Alright, so let's start this off with my favorite rallying cry: Attraction CANNOT be negotiated. It's either there, or it isn't.

So, taking a look at what you said here, I've drawn a few conclusions:

1: You have to watch your rationalization hamster, because it's running pretty hard right now. More on that in a minute, so please bare with me.

2: This girl had no intention of sleeping with you from the beginning, and is either not interested in you as you think (most likely), or a structured woman (less likely, but still possible).

3: Women do NOT think like men do. Reading your post as a man, and assuming it all to be true, her actions do not make logical sense. But, women are not logical.

Okay, so let's break this down, starting with her level of attraction which will help you to contextualize her actions. On a 1-10 scale, I'd say this girl was about a 5 for you. Not particularly crazy about you, but receptive enough to give you a shot. The margin for error on these types of women is thin.

By structured do you mean a girl that has some set rules (i.e. no sex until 3 dates)? The vibe I got that night was that she isn't structured but maybe from past experiences, shes bit more cautious now.

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(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

Invited girl I know from social circle to watch a series thats currently very popular in young adults age. She countered with inviting me over at hers to watch it instead.

Obviously you're interested in banging this girl, so you basically hit her with the standard Netflix and Chill. Bad move. Women know EXACTLY what it means when you suggest they come over and watch a show. There's no mystery there. Women get off on mystery, and you're clearly signalling your intentions from the get go, which stomps on any sexual tension you could have built up.

I've made this mistake before with going direct for netflix and chill but in this case she had mentioned to me in person about doing that one day so I thought it wouldn't be a disdadvantage. Think thats failed me enough times so never doing that before the first bang anyway, no matter the situation.

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With women that are 50/50 on their attraction to you, you don't want to make such an overt move like this. You want to maintain plausible deniability to get her rationalization hamster going. Without knowing your situation or logistics I would recommend a nighttime activity of some kind, with good logistics if it starts working well so you can take her back to your place. I personally take women with me on beach walks right near my condo. Adjust accordingly based on your situation.

So your girl sees through you that you're trying to bang, has a laugh with her friends, declines your invite and because it's better than being alone, invites you to her place. At this point, she's controlling the interaction. If she's in control, there's no mystery. If there's no mystery, her attraction isn't going to go up. Only downhill from there.

(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

Went there and did the kino escalation and it was going smoothly

It was going smoothly because she knew she wasn't going to be sleeping with you. More to come.

I guess this is where being in her house makes it easier for her to 'decide' not to have sex and stick with it.

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(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

Went for kiss about 45 mins in and then soon after few make outs, got her bra off etc but she stopped me each time I went for pants. Every time she said she liked me and didn't want to rush.

She's not lying in this case, she does like you, but not enough for you to get into her pants. Her raw attraction level wasn't high enough at the outset. You boost her attraction to you by combining kino, conversation and mystery. You got the kino part, which is big, but because you were watching a TV show instead of talking to her (more importantly, getting her to talk about herself), and she already knew what you were looking for by the venue choice?

Tbh the show encourages quite a lot of convos, many to do with attraction,personalities etc and we stopped it so many times just to discuss and tease what the other thinks of the situation. It wasn't silence or awkward at all.

100% agree on mystery though, definitely could have done a better job even after going for the obvious netflix and chill at her house.

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(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

so took away my ability to just walk away due to LMR

Don't use booze as a crutch. Also, don't bail if she gives you LMR. Personally, I just ease off, and let her come to me if I get LMR. If she doesn't? No sweat, I make my exit when I want to. Same goes to you. Always be in control of yourself. If you aren't, then you've got no business with women until you are. Your chica knew this, and was probably giddy at the thought of getting cuddled without having to put out with someone that wasn't really doing it for her.

This happens to all of us when we're learning, so don't take it too hard! I've had my fair share of these moments.

By easing off, do you mean stop all making out etc? I was trying to do some of that but didn't really know how much to ease off so my 'lowest level' was making out.

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(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

The next day after that, I invited her to mine but she replied she prefered to stay in that night but could do another day.

I understand she's leaving, but you pushed this a too hard. She already knows what you want, which is why she refused in the first place, but you went ahead and did it again. For a woman like this, back off for a bit, talk to other women, and then try to set something else up down the road that has plausible deniability. Don't invite her directly to your place, because her level of attraction isn't high enough for her to sleep with you yet.

I agree it was a mistake. I knew it was before I sent the txt but the fact she is leaving soon combined with that I have been txting 2 other girls that may have been up for doing something that day pushed me to send it anyway.

I also tried to rationalise her refusing sex as a case of not meeting enough times and thus the more times we meet up, the sooner she will agree. I guess in her eyes though, going direct to someone's house doesn't really count as it immediately sets out what I want like you said.

In retrospect, I should have invited her to go for drinks, or some other activity.

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(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

lets assume that she doesn't and still wants to progress with me

Don't make assumptions. Stick to facts, and her actions. That's the only way your game will improve. Here are the facts:

1: She refused going to your place, but invited you to hers.
2: You encountered LMR
3: She refused your invite, but still left the possibility open of another.

This says that this girl is on the fence. She doesn't know if she wants to get to know you better or not. If you want her to be interested in a progression, she needs to feel your strength as a man, and not be able to immediately know your intentions. In this type of situation, back off and let her come at her own pace. If that's too slow, get more women. Getting more women is always the solution anyway.

I did not reply to her last text - I think i'll wait a few days and then ping her and see if she wants to go for drinks or something.

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(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

so why not just enjoy what it is and also make the most of the time we are both free and have nothing going on

If you're looking at this as a man, it makes logical sense. Women do not operate logically. They operate based on emotions, which you trigger with masculine behavior, conversation, and unclear intentions. None of those were on display, so of course, her attraction didn't go up to the point where she would sleep with you.

(06-15-2018 01:52 PM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  

What I guess I'm asking is, do girls purposefully avoid seeing someone they like in certain situations?

They don't. If a girl really likes you, she will move heaven and earth to see you. One of my current women will literally open her schedule and cancel her other plans any time I say I'm free and want to see her. Her friends predictably hate me.

Keep that in mind. If she likes you, she'll open up her schedule. The degree to which her schedule opens is very closely related to how much she likes you.

Quite like that correlation between opening up schedule and attraction.

Though I also realise now how many times I have though a girl may like me due to her way of texting but then not opening up her schedule. It's frustrating but guess I need to be more tactical and efficient in my texting game.

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Okay my man, I've broken this entire thing down, so let's finish off with how you get better. First, don't take this criticism too hard. You've gotta make mistakes to get better.

Don't take women directly to your place until you know it's going down. They know what it means. Spend more time asking your woman questions, and getting information out of her. When she asks you questions, keep it fun and light. Tease her a bit, between light kino and humor in response to her questions.

If you're doing this right, her emotions will get going, and if she begins to associate you with positive emotions, her attraction will go up. Then you can amp up the kino and slay the poontang with no LMR.

This is a really basic overview. I would suggest picking up Roosh's required reading, doing some more approaches, and then expanding your horizons from there.

Best of luck OP!

Thank you for the detailed response!

(06-15-2018 10:21 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Am I the only one thinking "demand a grand tour of the house then laughingly neg the fuck out her living space"?

That would be my salvage backup in this instance. You have time to mentally fortify yourself before you go in, so it might be her court but the ball's in your end of that court.

Social game, right? So you both know the same people and she's unwittingly placed herself in a position of vulnerability. She wants to court attention without putting out and she believes putting herself in a safe space allows her to call the shots.

"Holy fuck. Does anyone else know how messy your room is?!"

Bada bing. Bada boom. The balance of power shifts. You are now a secret keeper and she has to provide an incentive for that.

The game continues. "I watch these detective shows, and it's always so cool how they can tell all this stuff about people from the little details in their house."

If you can keep it light and fun (ie: more fun that a stupid TV show) then once you flip her "my house, my rules" sense of safety into "oh my God, I've opened myself to being totally revealed" then there's a solid chance she's going to do anything in order to drag your attention away.

Do this right and she'll start the kino herself dragging you away from shit she doesn't want you to dig into, even if it's something as benign as a DVD collection that she claims "all belong to my flatmate!"

"Ohhhhh. Riiight. Let's start building a psychological profile of 'your flatmate', eh?"

"What are you upset about. I'm taking an interest. It turns out you really are a fascinating person."

At some point you hit the nitrous button. Wind your way to the bedroom on the pretext of examining her wall art (posters, whatever). Glance at the closet. Point. Eyes widen.

"Ohhhh. What can we find in here?"

If the Gods smile upon you then she's going to physically put herself between you and the closet. You're the big, stupid dog that won't listen, right? She has to use all her force (kino) to stop you.

After that moment you get serious. You look her in the eye, you the hunter, she the prey, and say "distract me".

Of course most of this scenario is hypothetical. The details will vary but like all game it's up to you to take the fundamentals of manipulation and adapt to the circumstance as it evolves.

She brought you to her fortress as a subordinate. When you inverse the balance of power then attraction/submission will follow.

And remember. Better to be kicked out for being a wolf than be a dog and have your balls snipped. In social game a single loss can be devastating if a women subdues your sexuality. Any other women in that herd are not going to fuck a guy if Becky beat him down. On the other hand being kicked out is like getting disqualified. It's marked down as a loss but in truth nobody really knows who the better man was, and other contenders will still be eager to find out.

This is brilliant haha, I wish I had read this before going. I did do a tiny bit of that at the start as her kitchen was a mess but would have worked wonders if I did it in a similar way to what you suggested.

Cheers for advice, particularly the last paragraph. I do try to live by that kind of mentality but sometimes I don't even know what is the bold move. For example, I knew I wasn't going to get any closer to sex by going for a spoon but I had never actually spooned with a girl overnight (The 4 times I had sex before, it was either not in a bed or I/her left after) so I was curious lol.