[Viralata]

I see a lot of posts here, by North Americans I'm assuming (maybe a poor assumption?), regarding working in other countries. I'm not trying to be a party-crasher, but probably the one thing locals like less than people banging their women is people taking their jobs. Those of you that are presently living and working abroad have fought your own battles and this is not directed at you. This is directed at the younger guys, not by any means in a negative way, who think that they will conquer the world with their BA from State University. If you are really serious about pursuing a overseas career, I want people to have no illusions, it's a battle. Think the 300 from Sparta, that should be your attitude.

A few observations from having lived and worked abroad for the better part of 10 years. Mostly in Latin America and Asia, YMMV:

-Although the local market may appear "light years behind" what's going on where you live, it's probably operating on a completely different wavelength than you can perceive. The lack of access to slick tech toys in many countries often means that the local industries have learned to improvise to great effect. Now they are catching up tech wise as well.

-Excluding ESL teaching, It will NOT be easy for you, without connections, to waltz in to a country and pick up a career. CAREER, not job.

-The locals are as smart or smarter than you, more professional, more worldly and speak more languages, oh, and dress better.

-Connections and interpersonal skills are extremely important, often even be more so than in North America. Good game skills, transferred to the office are vital.

-One major advantage we have(had) is access and familiarity with technology. This can be leveraged iff you have a high technical proficiency. This means nothing in a vacuum, be able to apply your skills in novel and useful ways.

-Create efficiency and problem solve. One thing developing countries can do is make use of what they have to maximum effect. The US culture of throwing money at a problem until it's fixed doesn't usually fly elsewhere.

-Relax. The office schedule/soul crushing style of US office life is not necessary to get things done. Bring HALF of that attitude and you are usually a step ahead. Although I see this changing rapidly <sigh>

-Sexism...isms in general. Common, don't be surprised.

-Nothing is what it seems. Cultural differences and norms can be so completely different and utterly, well, foreign, that you have no idea what you did wrong until it's too late. Be prepared to get ninja bitch-slapped by life in surprising ways. Makes for good stories later.

-My fav. Being American is often perceived to be a disadvantage, so usually you have no where to go but up.

-Hard working, smart and worldly men generally have much higher value than in the US. Playing by "the rules" WILL get you somewhere. Still, it's not cool to be a tool.

I'm not trying to romanticize any one particular place. I have travelled enough to know that pretty much all places suck equally for some reason or another. I see many young Americans wholly unprepared for the future that they face in the 21st century or believe that they are somehow better prepared than other countries based ridiculous idealized notions and basic ignorance.

Yes, you can live a fulfilling life abroad. Come prepared to work hard, but more importantly work smart.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45567659/More_Ame...ortunities

[Roosh]

Great list.

Are their careers to get into which has less of a learning curve while working abroad? What educational background would give you a leg up on the locals?

[Viralata]

I'm in mining and it's a career field where expat living is common, if not the norm...part of the reason I picked it, or rather it picked me. As for other career paths, I'm not really qualified to speak, so maybe the community can share some of their experiences.

I think that success has a lot to do with attitude and determination, but no matter where you go you will find a lot of local blockers throwing up obstacles and generating negativity. It's understandable given the economic conditions prevalent in many places for the last couple generations.

[Downunder]

Great post Viralata - its good to be realistic about these things in the real world when moving abroad and trying to set up a new life career in a foreign land.

[CJ]

Given how much Americans hate when people from other countries "take their jobs", I don't understand why anyone wouldn't expect the inverse to be true as well.

[K-man]

My tip is this: don't just move abroad and expect to land a job with a US paycheck.
Better, first start at home, in a large multinational corporation that you know has operations in the country/ies of your choice. Then it's easier to get transferred once a vacancy opens.

If you are a citizen of one of the European Union countries, becoming an Eurocrat may enable you to move abroad frequently, including the less developed EE countries. Here is a dream job for 99% of our forum members: EIB resident representative in Ukraine (currently open):
https://erecruitment.eib.org/psp/er/EMPL...HRS_CE.GBL
Guys - if you qualify, go for it. I'd love to see a forum member get this job. The field reports he'd post... priceless. This job will likely provide you (in addition to the nice paycheck) with a nice pad in the city center and access to social events with the local high society.

[pitt]

I disagree with most things you have said, i really think you are underestimating the power of being an american and how the world values american or western education.

This line shocked me: ''The locals are as smart or smarter than you, more professional, more worldly and speak more languages, oh, and dress better''.

Are you serious? What country did you you felt that the locals were smarter than you? The western education is the best in the world, just compare the number of illiterate people in these developing nations with another western nation and you tell me who is benefiting more in terms of education. Most of these countries that we as expats go to work, most of people cant even speak english, the local people dont even like local people, they would rather do businesses with expatriates (i could go on about different issues for ages)

To the guys who are interested in go hustling abroad, dont be intimidated by moving abroad for working purposes, its a lot easier than viralata is making it sound. If you are smarter than the average cat, you should do fine.

[Enfant_Terrible]

I don't think Viralata's discouraging hustling or devaluing your background (professional/educational) necessarily, he just wants you to be on the lookout for factors that will or might get in the way of your career goals in whatever foreign country you pick.

Regarding the "locals smarter than you..." line, I think it's more targeted to those who expect themselves to be hot in demand but haven't done their due diligence with researching their target country and are "underqualified." If it doesn't apply to you, then more power to you.

[Viralata]

pitt,

In that specific instance I'm referring to the sorts of people that the majority of readers here would encounter as their peers or "competition". Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm glad you disagree, but I'd personally rather to hear about your experiences and how they relate to preparing people to work abroad than hear why you think I'm wrong.

It's been my experience that a lot of "westerners" believe that a degree from a western university is a golden ticket. It's not. Maybe it was for you, let's hear about it. Seriously.

Quote:

What country did you you felt that the locals were smarter than you?

I've met people smarter than me, in some way, everywhere I've been. I likely have different opinion than others regarding what constitutes an education.

Quote:

The western education is the best in the world

Can be pretty useful, when applied properly. There's a lot of things it's worthless for.

Quote:

just compare the number of illiterate people in these developing nations with another western nation and you tell me who is benefiting more in terms of education

I'm not sure what you mean. U.S. students finished 15th in reading, 19th in math and 14th in science - in a study that ranked 31 developed nations Source: OECD. I'm not trying to crap on the US. Far from it, I hate reading stats like that. Don't you?

Quote:

Most of these countries that we as expats go to work, most of people cant even speak english, the local people dont even like local people, They would rather do businesses with expatriates

My work has taken me to a variety of countries, from various states of development, to stone age, to developed, on six continents.
-Local people speak their local languages.
-Everyone hates their own people, it's called family. good point though, so true.
-People want to work with people that won't rip them off and that will help them further their own goals.

Quote:

To the guys who are interested in go hustling abroad, dont be intimidated by moving abroad for working purposes, its a lot easier than viralata is making it sound. If you are smarter than the average cat, you should do fine.

No, don't be intimidated, be prepared. Living and working abroad, in the majority of fields is tough and is getting tougher.

If I come off as overly dire at times, it's for effect.

[Hooligan Harry]

Curious to know which country/countries you are working in Viralata

I have had a ton of PM's about this and I always say the same thing to most folks.

The best way to land a job abroad is to either transfer internally or you need to be prepared to fly in/fly out for shift type work. The other way to land these jobs is to apply off the company websites, not through local job boards and local recruiters who are fucking useless at the best of times. Another is to land a job that bases you in your home country but expects extended periods of travel. (This is how I have travelled as much as I have all on the company dime)

There is a real need for people who are prepared to travel. Believe it or not, most guys in their late twenties to mid thirties have no desire to travel to places off the beaten track as much as the guys here will. Many would also have families and would not want to travel.

I disagree with Viralata on a lot of what he has said though, and its perhaps specific to his situation I think. You dont pack your bags, fly over with your CV and expect to land a job. But landing a job in your home country and transferring is very possible. And applying for jobs outside your home country through company websites and their internal HR departments will often yield results too.

1 - Western education is highly valued. Its why the USA, UK, Canada and Australia get as many foreign students as they do. Most developing economies are industrialising and that process is something westerners have already gone through. A lot of our systems are being implemented and as a result your qualification means a lot.

2 - Western skills are highly valued. Yes, you may not have experience with things at ground level, but you have experience many locals wont have at all. Larger projects, newer technology, foreign suppliers, etc. At the same time, the world is globalising and western markets are the biggest which creates huge demand for the go between. Multinationals are expanding their branches and opening new ones in new markets and that is not being done with local skills only.

3 - Multinationals? Most of your multinationals run centralised policy with regional management. The vast majority of foreign placements are internal transfers as a result or locals who have worked in the country they wish to transfer from. You cant have some Chinese dude in Beijing enforcing procurement policy that was handed down to them from Houston and think he is going to understand it half the time. Someone has to train them up and manage them through it.

4 - Skill shortages. Just because a country has high unemployment does not mean that there are no skill shortages. Industry explodes in developing economies and you will see mini bubbles hit particular sectors. There could be a mining boom or boom in health care. When these hit, skilled people have to be imported because they cant be trained fast enough or simply have no training. There is no other way. Doctors and nurses for example, but also engineers, project managers, CA's, etc

5 - Productivity. Having brokered deals and traded right across Europe, Russia and Africa, no one can match the productivity of the Americans, Germans, British and Canadians. The quality of work is far higher and is often standards based. I can only chuckle when I look at the outsourced abortions from India and the Philippines for example.

That is for office based work in the capitals or major trading hubs. You will need to speak the local languages in almost all cases. These positions would be open to people with skills in finance, medicine, engineering (all disciplines), project management, etc. Specialised and experienced, not general and recently graduated.

Then there is field based work. This tends to be on site, in remote areas and its shift based. Tough life that many cant handle, but you make a small fortune, have many of your costs covered while on site and you are given a lot of time off to travel. Everything from operational health and safety to technical experience required to repair equipment that has come in from particular suppliers means that they need to bring in foreigners. There is a reason why there are so many FIFO workers instead of locally employed people. Its also driven by projects and those are easier to manage when you are using labour pools from countries where you can expect a particular output.

These would be everything from drillers to chefs to administrative staff like logistics officers. Think oil and gas rigs, but also land based mining and remote construction sites.

Now I know Viralata is talking about career, not job. But the reality is that with just a few years local experience after transferring the place will open up to you for the reasons stated above. Its not going to happen for a young graduate though, not unless you land the job where you are expected to travel really.

Ill agree with him though that you need to have the right perspective and be realistic with your expectations.

[Pepini]

Yep a friend of mine went to Brazil. He´s portuguese, engineer and had a girlfriend there. After four months looking for a job he came back to Portugal. No company wanted to go through the hassle of paying the visa. I offered legal help to go through visas, but he thought it would be easier. I think he´s gonna take a job offer from Prague. God bless EU.

A lot of people bash the US and EU. Well the thing that is fucking up the western hemsiphere is feminism. Only man take risks. I think the elite didn´t realize this negative consequence. As long as man are treated like retards, the west will be more and more surpassed.
Also the privileges of older employees. The lobbys and legal restrictions that benefits the older working people is disgusting.

Every month there´s a goodby dinner from some friend from Portugal. I don´t understand this shit. I´ve opened my legal private practice in the begining of this year and now I´m making between 3-5k´s/month. And i´m also finally starting to have international clients focusing in portuguese excolonies (Brazil, Angola, Mozambique, etc). Lisbon will always be my headquarters. There´s no better city in the world to raise a child.
The money is there why aren´t them taking it???

Brazil is now ranked 6th economy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/...uk-economy

I don´t see this as good news (no offence to Brazilian forum members).

22% of the biggest electric company in Portugal was bought by a chinese company called three gorges. Not even one US company aplied to buy this company. I don´t now if the US as a pact with China to divide the world, maybe we are already in cold war. Portugal and Spain did one some centuries back called Tratado de Tordesilhas.

Portugal will be the gateway of China to Europe. Till now all European countries were blocking the entry of chinese cars, mostly because of German cars. YES FUCK YOU MERKEL. Stupid bitch, because of pennies, this stupid communist nazi fucked up 50 years of EU solidarity.
Still EU is the richest and largest economy in the world. There are oportunities here even though the competition is much more fierceful.

Anyway, as a lawyer I´ve got my two first international clients last week. One from Angola and other from Mozambique. From what I´m hearing Mozambique will be the next boom.

You need to do a lot of due diligence before going to a country. Main one is obviously Visas. Housing. And Local job portals. No the ones you see if you put jobs in google. But the best solution is going abroad from a local company.

[scotian]

I agree with the general consensus on this thread, like the OP, I also work in mining (Oil sands, Alberta Canada)

One thing that Viralata left out in his OP, which I'm sure him and others will expand upon, is SAFETY CULTURE!

In Canada, safety is HUGE, the companies drill it into our heads and all new employees on each job site must: do a safety orientation (some are 2 hours, some are 2-5 days, depending on the site), pass a pre-employment drug and alcohol test (urine analysis) and have some 1 training day safety tickets like H2S (sour gas) training.

In other places, especially developing nations, their safety culture just isn't the same, we have many foreign workers in Canada, and their lack of safety culture has become an issue, especially after 2 Chinese workers were killed (and several others injured) when a steel tank they were working in collapsed on them back in 06'.

In the resource sector, oil and mining, there are many work abroad opportunities in some exotic places, but some of these jobs go to highly skilled technicians and engineers, but not always. I had to pass up a 6 week job in Moa Cuba at a Soviet built nickle plant (had to be in my best bud's wedding), the guys who went (about 5 of them) ended up staying there for 3 or 4 months (these jobs almost NEVER finish on time!), it was a mint gig, didn't work too hard and partied A LOT and banged lots of hot Cubanas!

my $0.02

[Gmac]

Safety IS the new black. I would say it might even be overtaking Green, Health, Organic, and Diversity initiatives in certain fields.

[Viralata]

I agree with most of Hooligan Harry's comments. I don't believe anything I've said is really contrary to what he's stated. I definitely did not suggest packing your bags and moving somewhere, CV in hand. My post is more about cultivating an attitude than it is a comparison of specific educational systems. As I said before, YMMV. This post is not aimed at Harry or people like him...

Quote:

Now I know Viralata is talking about career, not job. But the reality is that with just a few years local experience after transferring the place will open up to you for the reasons stated above. Its not going to happen for a young graduate though, not unless you land the job where you are expected to travel really

That is the point, a lot of young graduates believe that without putting in the time they can show up somewhere and land a career. A few years is a big investment for most people and the trade offs may or may not be attractive.

Western education IS highly valued, and it is getting exported, copied and in some cases improved upon.

The majority of foreigners, in higher education in the west, with exceptions, aren't coming over to party. Our educational systems, like our manufacturing base, business models, and innovation are not unique in that they are somehow immune from being improved upon.

Harry, I've worked and lived in various degrees in The US, Canada, Mexico, Peru, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Botswana, South Africa, Nepal, India, Thailand, and Australia...excluding places I've worked for shorter periods of a couple weeks. Almost always in remote locations.

I am also keenly aware that given the choice between hiring a foreigner in USD, CAD or Euros, a local company will choose a local, given a similar, often lesser, skill set to mine. My counter is to continually improve my education, both traditional and non-traditional, skim the cream from what lessons the locals can teach, and try and stay ahead of the curve.

I am by no means trying to dissuade anyone from going for it. People should have no illusion regarding the hurdles they face and the amount of work it takes to stay relevant.

[kosko]

(12-27-2011 03:58 AM)pitt Wrote:  

I disagree with most things you have said, i really think you are underestimating the power of being an american and how the world values american or western education.

This line shocked me: ''The locals are as smart or smarter than you, more professional, more worldly and speak more languages, oh, and dress better''.

Are you serious? What country did you you felt that the locals were smarter than you? The western education is the best in the world, just compare the number of illiterate people in these developing nations with another western nation and you tell me who is benefiting more in terms of education. Most of these countries that we as expats go to work, most of people cant even speak english, the local people dont even like local people, they would rather do businesses with expatriates (i could go on about different issues for ages)

To the guys who are interested in go hustling abroad, dont be intimidated by moving abroad for working purposes, its a lot easier than viralata is making it sound. If you are smarter than the average cat, you should do fine.

This is precisely why he said that. Us Westerners still believe this nonsesnse when its has no basis. If your telling me the USA with its a abundance of shitty BA's tops South Korea where kids kill them selves over poor test performances or some places where school is 6-7 days a week your wrong. In Canada the Govt artificially inflates the value of our education by denying outside skills from being recognized. They have done little to know studies to justify this only doing it to protect Canadian workers.

I would say that okay maybe most can't speak English... but a lot of people can communicate in 2+ languages when the lazy American can only speak one.

[scotian]

Viralate and anyone else who works abroad in the resource sectors, I'd like to pick your brains for a minute, of all those exotic locales you've worked in (remote Canada, damn where were you, Labrador, Flin Flon, NWT?? brrrr), what place did you like working the most?

Which place had the best combination of good money, safe, good locals to work with , decent camp accommodation, food, etc.

I'm asking because the chance to work abroad will definitely come up for me (again) in the future and I'd like to do it. However, I've been told by a few people who've done so that its not all its cracked up to be.

one old guy I met on a job site, who had worked all over the world in his 40 year career, told me something like this "listen kid, a job site is a job site, its doesn't matter if you're in Kuwait, Brazil Canada or Algeria; you wake up, go to work, go to bed and do the same thing everyday until you're rotation is up then you go home. You make good money here in Fort Mac, its safe, and you can take lots of leave, make your money here then spend it abroad traveling".

Its makes sense to me and thats basically what I"m doing, what are your guys' thoughts?

[Viralata]

There's a lot of truth to what that guy says. For me in comes down to the fact that I prefer to be around people who don't speak english. It forces me to speak the local language. Lately that language is spanish. Mostly I stay in small villages, sometimes for months, and I get to know the people and the culture, and where possible the local girls. I use my time off to explore the country and go climbing. Usually the food is better than the typical stacks of nasty fried shit you get in NA, lots of fresh fruit, juices and vegetables, but not always. There are lots of aggravations as well: you don't get ferried around in choppers like in NA and the roads suck in most places I work, the bureaucracy can be a real drag, the police are corrupt and lazy, narcos are everywhere, kidnappings, the list goes on...

I like to be exposed to new experiences all the time and I like to be a minority where ever I go. I'm a junky for it. Some people don't, they want to buy a house and a boat and see the same people they've known since grade school every weekend at the same places. I think that's great if it makes you happy.

[BudgetGlobetrotting]

I agree that a lot of people need a wake up call when it comes to trying to work abroad.However, not surprisingly I disagree with the generalizations given my situation. It really all depends on where you're going and what you're doing.

For example, I'm currently working in the GCC in finance/accounting/consulting (GCC = kuwait, uae, qatar, oman, etc...all the same shit, different flag..and each place blows). Thus, I will speak only to the finance/accounting/consulting profession. I graduated from a good state university and had solid internship experience and landed here for 6 months after I graduated.

Before I came here, I felt way underqualified for the job....that is, until I realized how shitless all the nationals and half the subcontinent professional expats are here. After just a few months, the work is boring and I'm not challenged...this is mostly due to the unsophisticated nature of the business environment.Right now I have a 'job' and contract, but could easily transition it into a career in a different international office if I desired at a subpar US wage.

But, I'm almost certain I'll go back to the US unless an opportunity pops up in a serious market (Hong Kong, London, Singapore - serious places, because the locals are smart). For those thinking about business, nothing beats North American / W.European experience, training, exposure, and branding. 2 years experience in a legit company in a US metro will trump 2 years in the same job in Dubai or any other 2nd tier global market. That's the way it is, and that's how the people you need to impress will see it as well.

So my recommendation for anybody wanting to do finance/accounting/consulting abroad? Start at home, get experience in a reputable firm/bank/MNC, and forget about it for 2 years. I've been working the off-the-beaten path route but there's no real subsitute for quality US industry experience.

[beta_plus]

So, if I'm reading this right, the conclusion of this thread is that even if you have a Mechanical Engineering degree from a top flight US/Canadian/UK/W. Eur. university, your chances of scoring a sweet job in a 2nd tier Eastern European city with the opportunity to game gorgeous women is pretty small.

[Viralata]

(12-28-2011 10:41 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

So, if I'm reading this right, the conclusion of this thread is that even if you have a Mechanical Engineering degree from a top flight US/Canadian/UK/W. Eur. university, your chances of scoring a sweet job in a 2nd tier Eastern European city with the opportunity to game gorgeous women is pretty small.

No. It just may not be as easy as you might hope.

[Openbar]

(12-28-2011 03:16 PM)BudgetGlobetrotting Wrote:  

So my recommendation for anybody wanting to do finance/accounting/consulting abroad? Start at home, get experience in a reputable firm/bank/MNC, and forget about it for 2 years...there's no real subsitute for quality US industry experience.

Double-down on that. Get the top-flight experience, then go hunting as an expert.

It was mentioned only once, in reference to the EIB, but the multilateral banks, such as World Bank Group, Asian Development Bank, etc., offer tremendous opportunity for many with several years of brand name experience. Fairly competitive pay for all kinds of skills from HR to finance to resource extraction/management to sewer construction. Tax-free in the countries of work, salary gross-ups for American taxes (when the foreign earned income exclusion is breached), "official" status (next down from "diplomatic" status) in countries other than your home, huge support systems for first-time expatriates, benefits at developed country government levels. Downside is that staffing is based upon a quota system rooted to a great extent in the politics of their ownership (sovereigns) and initial contracts are for three years or so. They pay relocation both directions. Great way to get out there, travel extensively (I was on the road 50-70% while based in Asia) at top hotels on their dime, and meet some fairly important people in client governments and local business that you can leverage later, if you don't want to stay. Generally a good place to spend years 4-8, if you're not on the golden path in your current job.

[Aliblahba]

Ive been working abroad for seven years. The hardest part is finding that first break. Be tenacious. If you want it bad enough it will happen. Once you get your foot in the door network. A lot of opportunities are found by networking. Talk to as many people as you can. I purposely schedule long layovers and arrive in the airports early to B.S. with professionals in the bars. Always dress accordingly and keep you credentials on throw away thumbdrives.

When you're abroad and working you become more marketable to prospective employers. Don't lose that momentum once it starts. I made a lot of sacrafice in the beginning, but the dividends were worth it.

[Hooligan Harry]

(12-28-2011 09:21 AM)scotian Wrote:  

Viralate and anyone else who works abroad in the resource sectors, I'd like to pick your brains for a minute, of all those exotic locales you've worked in (remote Canada, damn where were you, Labrador, Flin Flon, NWT?? brrrr), what place did you like working the most?

Which place had the best combination of good money, safe, good locals to work with , decent camp accommodation, food, etc.

I'm asking because the chance to work abroad will definitely come up for me (again) in the future and I'd like to do it. However, I've been told by a few people who've done so that its not all its cracked up to be.

one old guy I met on a job site, who had worked all over the world in his 40 year career, told me something like this "listen kid, a job site is a job site, its doesn't matter if you're in Kuwait, Brazil Canada or Algeria; you wake up, go to work, go to bed and do the same thing everyday until you're rotation is up then you go home. You make good money here in Fort Mac, its safe, and you can take lots of leave, make your money here then spend it abroad traveling".

Its makes sense to me and thats basically what I"m doing, what are your guys' thoughts?

Dude Im fortunate in that I dont work on site, but I do travel from site to site a hell of a lot, so have been to tons of them. The old guy you spoke to could not have been more correct in what he said. It does not matter where you are, when you are on site you might as well be on the moon in the vast majority of cases. They are remote and they are pretty shit.

But what they offer is great pay and a lot of time off, and they also become a mini base for you to work from and hit up the countries for a few weeks at a time that are close by. Its a lifestyle built for single men.

With regards to the conditions provided in the camps, thats not based on the countries, thats based more on the companies you work for. They have to provide everything from security to food. They try to make it as comfortable as they can though, purely because skills are tough to find and they dont want the turnover.

[scotian]

(12-30-2011 12:45 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(12-28-2011 09:21 AM)scotian Wrote:  

Viralate and anyone else who works abroad in the resource sectors, I'd like to pick your brains for a minute, of all those exotic locales you've worked in (remote Canada, damn where were you, Labrador, Flin Flon, NWT?? brrrr), what place did you like working the most?

Which place had the best combination of good money, safe, good locals to work with , decent camp accommodation, food, etc.

I'm asking because the chance to work abroad will definitely come up for me (again) in the future and I'd like to do it. However, I've been told by a few people who've done so that its not all its cracked up to be.

one old guy I met on a job site, who had worked all over the world in his 40 year career, told me something like this "listen kid, a job site is a job site, its doesn't matter if you're in Kuwait, Brazil Canada or Algeria; you wake up, go to work, go to bed and do the same thing everyday until you're rotation is up then you go home. You make good money here in Fort Mac, its safe, and you can take lots of leave, make your money here then spend it abroad traveling".

Its makes sense to me and thats basically what I"m doing, what are your guys' thoughts?

Dude Im fortunate in that I dont work on site, but I do travel from site to site a hell of a lot, so have been to tons of them. The old guy you spoke to could not have been more correct in what he said. It does not matter where you are, when you are on site you might as well be on the moon in the vast majority of cases. They are remote and they are pretty shit.

But what they offer is great pay and a lot of time off, and they also become a mini base for you to work from and hit up the countries for a few weeks at a time that are close by. Its a lifestyle built for single men.

With regards to the conditions provided in the camps, thats not based on the countries, thats based more on the companies you work for. They have to provide everything from security to food. They try to make it as comfortable as they can though, purely because skills are tough to find and they dont want the turnover.

Thanks Harry, pretty much what I thought, I've put in some serious time in work camps over the years. Some are really nice, great food, clean, etc.

Some are FUCKING DUMPS though, one I stayed at last year for 1 week had bears breaking into our camp trailers, into the kitchen, one moring I got into my work truck and theres fuckin bear paw prints all over the engine bonnet and wind shield!!! Another one, I contacted a nasty ass infection called MRSA, not cool!!

Yes this job lifestyle is built for single men like me, thats why I love it (for now), its also really good at making married men single too!!!

[Aliblahba]

The worst thing about remote sites is listening to to married guys bitching. Their wives are fucking somone and spending all the money. Ive worked with DOZENS of guys that go back with ZERO in the bank. Some stay here because the wife wont let them come home.

This is the single mans life.