[Jack D. Serrano]

In order not to further derail this thread with questions to me about my approach towards dating - I'm starting to learn the hard way how much of game is NOT saying something stupid. - Vicious suggested I start a new thread.

(11-21-2011 06:53 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

There's a bunch of questions popping up here about Jack's particular brand of game and I admit my curiosity is peaked. Maybe you could put up a separate thread for this Jack?

Good idea.

Here is a rundown of the side conversation in the other thread...

Join in if you like, or not.

(11-21-2011 01:39 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(11-16-2011 12:29 AM)Jack D. Serrano Wrote:  

- See her once every 7-10 days for fun dates (Date = fun activity and a meal. Girls I'm with typically pay, but we never discuss it).
- No contact between dates except to invite her on the next date.
- Dates kept between 3-5 hours. No overnights (unless she books us a trip somewhere and/or has been extra good lately).
- No gifts. No "I love you." No spilling your guts out to her. No talking about other guys (good or bad). No talking about other girls (good or bad). Always treat other people you encounter with respect and class. No talking politics. No talking religion. No talking bad about anything, really.
- Keep everything light and playful and never, ever let conversation get serious (unless she is begging you to be her BF and then you have to negotiate the terms of how the relationship will continue).
- Everything out of my mouth is a joke in order to make her laugh, or a question to get to know her better. I rarely talk about myself.

That is EXACTLY what this guy proposes:

http://www.doclove.com/

It's part of his "system". My friend ran the system game and now he's been going out with the same girl for almost 2 years. He lives with her. I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, but needless to say his success story so far inspires me.

(11-21-2011 02:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 02:23 AM)Jack D. Serrano Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 01:39 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

That is EXACTLY what this guy proposes:

http://www.doclove.com/

It's part of his "system". My friend ran the system game and now he's been going out with the same girl for almost 2 years. He lives with her. I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, but needless to say his success story so far inspires me.

I'm familiar with his material (as I'm familiar with a lot of material).
Excellent, common-sense dating strategies from what I've heard of it.

However, most everything I mentioned in my post has simply been the most common sense way (from my perspective) for me to easily date lots of the quality of women I like simultaneously, while letting them chase me and not have things fall apart with girls when I am not willing to be exclusive with them. I thought it was fairly mainstream knowledge that you shouldn't talk politics/religion/negative stuff on dates and that seeing a girl more than once a week, contacting her all the time, or spending the night with her would send her the message that you want more a more serious relationship. A lot of it was probably from modeling my dad's behavior with my mom when I was growing up. Light, playful, always joking, never serious, no "sharing your feelings", etc.

Again, I'm avoiding calling what I do Doc Love game on purpose (you're free to call it anything you like). Mainly because I don't know the specifics of his system and because, even though I've only read a certain portion of what he has written, I've already seen things from him that are *very* different from what I do.

Although, with regards to any similarities about certain actions I take, I'm sure your observations are completely valid and correct.

Well, I think you and Doc Love are basically clones of each other. But maybe not.

Doc Love says no touching or kissing untill she starts touching you. What do you say to that? My friend, who is currently in a two-year relationship (living with her as well), said he did not kiss his gf until the 2nd formal date. He did not fuck her until after a month of dating.

Do you agree with that?

(11-21-2011 03:21 AM)Jack D. Serrano Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 02:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Doc Love says no touching or kissing untill she starts touching you. What do you say to that? My friend, who is currently in a two-year relationship (living with her as well), said he did not kiss his gf until the 2nd formal date. He did not fuck her until after a month of dating.

If your friend is happy with that then that's okay.
If your friend is not happy with that then maybe doing something differently might have been better.

Some of the craziest (girls pulling me to 'unusual' sex locations) and fastest sexual experiences (less than 60 minutes) I've had and heard about have been by refraining from touching or kissing her first.

I've found that the less I touch women, the more they touch me.
At the same time, the more I touch women, the less they touch me.

A lot of it is about building sexual response potential so that she is literally shaking at the anticipation of getting to have sex with me.

I've found that, for me, the easiest way to create situations where - the girl is the one begging me for sex, chasing me for sex, buying me gifts in exchange for orgasms, the girl is the one trying to convince me that we should have skip the date and have sex, the girl is the one who does everything possible to turn me on, jumping me for the sex first time I give her the chance, basically flipping the entire script so that she is the one chasing after sex while I am the one who has to hold back - the easiest way I've done this is by letting the girl touch me, rather than touching her.

Think about it like this - What do all girls know is one of the easiest way to get a guy to like her? Physical touch. If a girl likes you, and wants you to like her (for any number of reasons), and you keep your hands to yourself, what is usually (in my experience) her FIRST resort? Touching me in order to try to win my approval.

When a girl has to bring something more to the table other than their looks, sex appeal and physical touch, things can get crazy.

I don't think Doc Love talks about any of that kind of stuff, but I could be wrong.

(11-21-2011 02:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Do you agree with that?

I don't think it's morally wrong/right to touch girls before they touch you.
I don't think it's morally wrong/right to not touch girls before they touch you.

It's simply one way of doing things that will get different results than a different way of doing things. It's up to guys to decide if those are the results that make them happy.

If touching girls first gets you results, relationships and women that make you happy then I say, go for it.
If letting girls touch you first gets you results, relationships than women that make you happy then I say, go for it.

(11-21-2011 03:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Yeah you're pretty much in agreement with Doc Love. Doc Love has been saying the same shit you say for over 20 years.


I've almost got you figured out, but one more question.

Where do you meet women? Night time or day time? Or both? Talking game, or dancing, or something else?

When you take them out on dates, do you do action oriented dates or more typical dates such as coffee/drinks?

Details, details. I want to know so I can properly evaluate your game. I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger and trying a 180 degree change in my game.

(11-21-2011 06:43 AM)Jack D. Serrano Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 03:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Yeah you're pretty much in agreement with Doc Love. Doc Love has been saying the same shit you say for over 20 years.

Cool.

(11-21-2011 03:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I've almost got you figured out, but one more question.

Cool.

(11-21-2011 03:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Where do you meet women? Night time or day time? Or both? Talking game, or dancing, or something else?

I spend about an hour a day approaching 30 attractive women a day. Train stations, streets, shopping malls, etc.

Let me know if you end up doing this for several months/years. I always enjoy talking with guys after they've incorporated that habit into their lives. Makes for great learning.

(11-21-2011 03:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

When you take them out on dates, do you do action oriented dates or more typical dates such as coffee/drinks?

Depends on my goals with the woman.

Coffee dates - sometimes.
Drinks - sometimes.
Action oriented dates - sometimes.
Activity then a meal - sometimes.
Straight to my place - sometimes.

(11-21-2011 03:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Details, details. I want to know so I can properly evaluate your game. I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger and trying a 180 degree change in my game.

I don't consider what I do to be better than other guys game. Simply different. In fact, many guys I talk to judge "game" according to how it helps them sleep with women who aren't into them. By that standard, I have zero game. What I do works well for me with the kind of women like. The results I get make me extremely happy.

However, it might not be the same for you or another person who tries to do what I do.

(11-21-2011 06:53 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

There's a bunch of questions popping up here about Jack's particular brand of game and I admit my curiosity is peaked. Maybe you could put up a separate thread for this Jack?

[Samseau]

I see, you're a Day Game man. I'm just getting into Day Game. Night game produces lots of sex, but relationships of substance tend not to happen there because of the stigma girls associate with meeting men at night.


I can see why not touching works for you. Approaching girls during the day starts a different dynamic that doesn't rely on touching at all. Conversely, for night game, not touching is the kiss of death to a seduction.

Quote:

I spend about an hour a day approaching 30 attractive women a day. Train stations, streets, shopping malls, etc.

What kind of opener's do you use?

And an hour a day? You've must have found the best spots around town to rack up 30 approaches on beautiful women in such a short time.

Quote:

I don't consider what I do to be better than other guys game.

Tight game is getting girls to sleep or fall in love with you.

[Jack D. Serrano]

(11-21-2011 10:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I see, you're a Day Game man. I'm just getting into Day Game. Night game produces lots of sex, but relationships of substance tend not to happen there because of the stigma girls associate with meeting men at night.

I prefer meeting women outside bars/clubs simply because they match what I'm looking for much more often in terms of their attitude towards life and overall character attributes.

Hot women are everywhere. There are lots of women who are willing to have fast sex who you can meet during the day. Similarly, plenty of women are perfectly willing to have relationships with guys they meet at night. The real question for me is - Is this the kind of woman who I really want to be with, other than the fact that she is hot? What else does she bring to the table?

To put your comment a bit differently - It could also be possible that relationships of substance tend not to happen there because the GIRLS you meet at night aren't the kind of girls you want relationships with. Ever heard someone say you shouldn't try to wife up a hoe?

I'm not saying that way of looking at it is right or truth. Simply another way of looking at it.

(11-21-2011 10:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I can see why not touching works for you. Approaching girls during the day starts a different dynamic that doesn't rely on touching at all. Conversely, for night game, not touching is the kiss of death to a seduction.

Actually, to provide counter-examples to that - I have quite successfully had sex with women at clubs without ever initiating touch. In my experience, the dynamic remains the same, even with girls in clubs: If she wants you to like her more, she will touch you, escalate touch and eventually more, provided you refrain from touching her of course.

I've had hot women who were literally crawling on me, forcing themselves between my legs, running their hands along my neck/back, 30 minutes after meeting me in a club all WITHOUT me ever initiating touch and generally holding back my touch even while they touched me. No VIP, no rich guy/famous guy game. Simply me, knowing how to find favorable situations, making her laugh, not touching her.

It might be useful to keep in mind that I get ignored by a very large number of women. But I meet enough women that I am able to find situations (like mentioned above) at a much higher rate with women who really turn me on and make me happy than many guys, while still getting ignored by a good number of women and never progressing things with women who aren't into me from the start.

I do not do what I do with women with whom there is no mutual attraction from the get-go. Luckily, it is completely unnecessary given my goals (fun, long, open, sex-filled relationships with very attractive, high value women).

(11-21-2011 10:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

I spend about an hour a day approaching 30 attractive women a day. Train stations, streets, shopping malls, etc.

What kind of opener's do you use?

"Hello. What's your name?"
"Hi. How are you?"
"Hey. How ya doin?"
"Excuse me. Hello."

Or some variation of those.
In my experience, they work very well for my goals.

'Hello' was invented for a reason.

(11-21-2011 10:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

And an hour a day? You've must have found the best spots around town to rack up 30 approaches on beautiful women in such a short time.

Haha, yes.
It certainly didn't start out as an hour a day, though.
Lots of trial and error.
It's not exactly 60 everyday or anything.
These days it tends to range somewhere between 45 - 75 minutes.
So the average is about 60 minutes.

You learn pretty quick exactly where NOT to go when you have to spend 4 hours doing it because you chose a spot that doesn't have an abundance of attractive women (and because you mentally committed yourself to doing it anyways). I avoid those places like the plague now, when it comes to meeting women. The good news is - We learn!

(11-21-2011 10:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

I don't consider what I do to be better than other guys game.

Tight game is getting girls to sleep or fall in love with you.

Cool.
Just curious - How about if they already liked you a whole lot from the beginning and you just make it easier for them to keep falling in love with you by not messing things up?

[Samseau]

Quote:

Just curious - How about if they already liked you a whole lot from the beginning and you just make it easier for them to keep falling in love with you by not messing things up?

Same thing.

[XXL]

Quote:

I spend about an hour a day approaching 30 attractive women a day. Train stations, streets, shopping malls, etc.

how do you approach groups in daytime in general? i know versatility is KEY but maybe you have preferred default way. specifically, so do you go straight for your girl first and then befriend her friends (if you do it) or do you introduce yourself to everybody and then switch to the girl you want?

i don't care about opener but i'm asking what's your general style

[Docter]

How do you rate yourself on looks (physical appearance), Jack?

How do you rate yourself on a comfortable, confident demeanor while talking to these women, Jack?

You state that you don't do anything unless there is mutual attraction from the get-go. What defines this, Jack?

I'm actually pretty aligned to how you do your game already, but I'm curious how those three factors might play into it. I'm still developing a nice pair of bronze balls so I can get anywhere from slightly nervous to shitting myself sometimes.

I also never approach girls in groups during the day.

[Jack D. Serrano]

(11-21-2011 04:39 PM)XXL Wrote:  

how do you approach groups in daytime in general? i know versatility is KEY but maybe you have preferred default way. specifically, so do you go straight for your girl first and then befriend her friends (if you do it) or do you introduce yourself to everybody and then switch to the girl you want?

i don't care about opener but i'm asking what's your general style

Basically the same style whether it's groups of women, mixed groups of guys/girls, a woman by herself, a woman with her mom/dad/parents.

It's usually some variation/pattern similar to this:

"Hi. How is everyone doing? If it's good with everyone here, I'd like to meet your friend/daughter. Does that sound okay? Cool. Hi. What's your name? Nice to meet you (name)." Then, *Shake hands* *Make her laugh, ideally* *Ask for her phone number*

Or, if it's not okay that I talk to her (ultimately, I've found that if the girl herself wants to talk to you, everyone tends to defer to her decision):
"Does that sound okay? Cool. I hope you all have a wonderful day. Bye now."

Or if it's a group of all attractive girls I might ask all of them for their numbers so I can call them all up for quick coffee dates individually and find out who I click with, rather than singling them out.

Not sure about what kind of style that is but I'm always friendly, always polite, always classy, I don't try to hide the fact that I'm meeting her because I'd like to get to know her better specifically for dating purposes, and then if she wants to talk to me, I make her laugh if I can. And I always take no as acceptable an answer as yes.

Really, the specific words I wrote about above aren't all that special. I simply meet a lot of women, and have met enough that it suits my personality, style and my goals well. Other things might work better or worse for other guys. I definitely recommend testing whatever you do/say by talking to large numbers of women and then tracking your results to find what works best in your particular case.

[XXL]

(11-22-2011 01:13 AM)Jack D. Serrano Wrote:  

Not sure about what kind of style that is but I'm always friendly, always polite, always classy, I don't try to hide the fact that I'm meeting her because I'd like to get to know her better specifically for dating purposes, and then if she wants to talk to me, I make her laugh if I can. And I always take no as acceptable an answer as yes.

yes totally agree. just by reading you post i can see you're cool and doing really good. that's exactly what we call 'being normal'. respect

[bez]

(11-22-2011 01:13 AM)Jack D. Serrano Wrote:  

[quote='XXL' pid='121296' dateline='1321911573']"Hi. How is everyone doing? If it's good with everyone here, I'd like to meet your daughter.

This is brave, my hat goes off to you for this one....