[Deluge]

Just thought I'd share this with you all. I've used the Escalation Ramp at the end of the ladder successfully to get girls naked, but I can't comment on whether the incidental/overt dynamic works in the build up to the actual seduction.

http://www.vindicarlo.com/DiCarlo%20Esca...lo.com.pdf

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I have read it and it's interesting stuff, very worth keeping in mind although one must not treat it like an explicit rule. From my own experience, I've always covered almost all of his "incidental" steps before anything from "overt". As for the end of the ladder I can't comment, other things were at my mind

[Giovonny]

I like to see this stuff broken down into simple steps. I have been working on my Kino Game. Sometimes I am a little too "caveman". This clarifies things a bit

[Deluge]

Wonder if there's an ideal time frame to ideally escalate beyond each step.

[_DC_]

I love the finger from behind move. Been using that one way before I read any forums. Its like women have a force field (or at least pretend to) with slipping your hand down the front of their pants.

Classic move.

[Deluge]

(10-04-2011 03:54 AM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I love the finger from behind move. Been using that one way before I read any forums. Its like women have a force field (or at least pretend to) with slipping your hand down the front of their pants.

Classic move.

Its a godsend when their wearing wannabe hipster skinny jeans.

[EasyPlayboy]

I think it's very valuable. Everything is a process. Sales is a process. Career escalation is a process. Sex and closing is a process.

If you can't get through one of these "steps" then you might need to reassess your strategy or move on to another woman...

[sylo]

Make out sesh with mid sections touching

STOLEN.

[TTG]

(09-30-2011 01:53 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

Just thought I'd share this with you all. I've used the Escalation Ramp at the end of the ladder successfully to get girls naked, but I can't comment on whether the incidental/overt dynamic works in the build up to the actual seduction.

http://www.vindicarlo.com/DiCarlo%20Esca...lo.com.pdf

They took it off the site.. can you send me a copy please?

[JohnnyAppleSeeds]

(05-21-2012 08:46 PM)TTG Wrote:  

(09-30-2011 01:53 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

Just thought I'd share this with you all. I've used the Escalation Ramp at the end of the ladder successfully to get girls naked, but I can't comment on whether the incidental/overt dynamic works in the build up to the actual seduction.

http://www.vindicarlo.com/DiCarlo%20Esca...lo.com.pdf

They took it off the site.. can you send me a copy please?

"The DiCarlo Escalation Ladder is a step-by step formula, followed by a number of laws which govern it’s use for maximum effect.

It is designed to provide a smooth escalation, containing no significant jumps that may cause a woman to object. At the same time, the DEL contains no extraneous steps which are non-essential to the seduction process. This results in a FAST escalation sequence which is compatible with a variety of verbal structures, and has been field tested and perfected by myself, Vincent DiCarlo, in hundreds of trials.

Without further marketing, hype or other bullsh*t, I present… the DiCarlo Escalation Ladder!
DiCarlo Escalation Ladder

1. Eye Contact and Initial Conversation

Eye contact is the first step. It’s use shows social awareness and always improves your chances of starting a conversation. Start your conversational game shortly after eye contact.

2. Incidental Class 1

The first class of incidental kino involves the arms and hands. Shaking hands, tapping people on the shoulder and brushing arms are all very common things that we do on a daily basis. Done in an incidental manner, ie. occurring merely by chance or without intention or calculation, it is extremely effective at building initial comfort.

Incidental Class 1 Examples:

* Hand shaking
* Arm brushing
* Light touching on her arm to emphasize your points
* Anchoring her arm near elbow to hold her close as you talk
* Standing next to her with your arm touching hers
* High Fives
* Palm Reading

3. Overt Class 1

There is an unmistakable recurring pattern throughout the DEL: incidental kino, followed by overt kino. Overt means open to view or knowledge; not concealed or secret. While incidental kino is usually done in a context which masks your intention, overt kino is not. The incidental kino which precedes it creates the familiarity necessary for the overt kino to be accepted.

Overt Class 1 Examples:

* Holding hands
* Arm in arm escorting

4. Incidental Class 2

Class 2 kino involves any contact which takes place on her torso or legs. This is slightly more intimate than class 1, but does not include erogenous zones such as her breasts, crotch or inner thighs. Those areas are not paid any direct attention until the escalation ramp - to be defined later.

Incidental Class 2 Examples:

* Standing very close with your legs touching hers
* Sitting close together with your legs touching hers
* Lightly and incidentally brushing her abdomen with your hands while talking
* Briefly touching her back with your palm while speaking as if you are pulling her in to hear you better

5. Overt Class 2

Overt class 2 kino is usually done while sitting down. It’s not necessary, but definitely a smart place to make the transition to sitting down. This class of kino should be done in a protective, almost romantic manner.

Overt Class 2 Examples:

* Frontal Hugging (done best as a positive reaction to her compliance)
* Escorting her through the bar with your hand on her lower back
* Sitting next to her and placing her leg over yours
* Holding her abdomen on the side while sitting down and talking
* Placing her hand on your thigh

6. Incidental Class 3

Her hair, face and neck are the regions included in class 3. Many guys make the common mistake of touching these areas too soon, with a girl they first met. Girls are surprisingly protective of their hair, face and neck placing these relatively high on the ladder. Another common mistake is that more experienced guys will generally skip this step altogether, only to face last minute resistance later on.

Incidental Class 3 Examples:

* Brushing (or pretending to brush) something off of her face
* Talking very closely with your face touching hers because the environment is extremely loud
* Touching an interesting neckace she’s wearing, meanwhile allowing your fingers to lightly caress her neck
* Playfully pinching her cheeks

7. Overt Class 3

The manner in which kino is delivered in overt class 3, is very direct. It is meant to prepare her for kissing, and is done in a very slow, gentle and romantic way. Most of the time you should be sitting down, relaxed and maintaining a good sexual state and strong eye contact.

Overt Class 3 Examples:

* Placing her head to rest on your shoulder
* Moving your face into her neck and smelling her
* Lightly stroking her face with your finger, close in, looking into her eyes
* Running your fingers through her hair, close in, looking into her eyes
* Holding her behind the neck with your palm to the side of her neck, looking into her eyes

Escalation Ramp

While the above steps from 1-7 may take anywhere from 30 minutes to 10 hours, the escalation ramp is very rapid. The duration of the ramp should be about 10 - 30 minutes. Start the ramp very quickly once you have complete isolation in a sex location.

8. Kissing

Start kissing from a very close proximity. Don’t come diving in lips first from three feet away. Ideally you should already be in a suitable position for kissing before you try. If you have overt class 3 kino taken care of, you’re probably in the right spot.

A technique for building sexual tension - move closely in, slowly as if you might kiss her, and then move away and start talking about something else. This will build the tension and she will wonder when you’re going to actually kiss her.

A technique to initiate kissing - try placing your finger just underneath her chin and pulling her mouth towards yours.

Kissing should be light and short at first. You should be the one to pull away first. Don’t use too much tounge at first, just use it to tease her, and build anticipation.

9. Kissing Her Neck

Once you have kissed her for a bit, move down to her neck. Kiss it gently, while holding her close to you. Depending on how rough you want to set the mood, feel free to throw in some gentle biting too.

10. Touching the Bare Skin of Her Back

Once you have established kissing both on her mouth and neck, move your hands to her waist and underneath her shirt. Continue to hold her close to you, now with your hands directly on her back.

11. Stomach to Stomach

Now that you have established touching her skin, below her shirt, simply move your hand to the front, and lift her shirt, exposing only her stomach. At the same time lift your shirt as well so that your abdomen is in direct contact with hers.

It seems innocent, but will meanwhile trigger intense sexual feelings inside of her. The only time she feels contact like that is usually when she’s naked and having sex.

12. Kissing her Body

Having her shirt pulled up affords the opportunity of moving downwards to kiss and caress the bare flesh of her abdomen. Start kissing her there, along the sides, and move upwards.

Touching and kissing the breasts is optional. It is not necessary, and in some cases can be detrimental to your progress. There are some women who have a negative anchor to their breasts. Inch toward their breasts and feel her reaction. If she becomes increasingly turned on, then go for it. If she starts to close down, skip the breasts until you are already having sex.

13. Incidentally Stimulate Vagina

While you are kissing her body, you can position yourself between her legs and use your midsection to rub against her vagina. If you are kissing her mouth you can position your thigh to stimulate her vagina.

You can also be kissing her body and reach between her legs and plant your hand on the bed below her. Then use your forearm to stimulate her vagina. The key here is that because you aren’t using your hand or fingers, she has no basis for objection.

14. Direct Vaginal Stimulation from Behind (Inside Panties)

Once you have really amped her up by incidentally rubbing her vagina, move your hand around to the back and slip it inside her panties and touch her naked ass.

Next, move your hand all the way down and reach her vagina. Start first by touching the area around it. Then proceed to finger her from behind. Women never expect to have it happen this way. Trying to reach your hand down the front of her pants will often be resisted, but from the rear is unexpected and effective.

If she is wearing a skirt or dress, you will instead move your hand up the back of her leg, and reach her vagina that way. Finger her and then proceed directly to step 16.

15. Direct Vaginal Stimulation in Front

Get her heated up by fingering her, and then when once she is sufficiently turned on, undo the front of her pants with your other hand.

You can use the Situationally Relevant phrase “My hand is being crushed” as you do it, although it’s usually not necessary. Since she is engaged by the fact that you are fingering her, she will rarely object to your simultaneous undoing of her pants. You may also have her undo her pants, by saying “Unbutton your pants.” as you are fingering her.

Moving to the front, you’ll be able to get more penetration with your fingers, and get her to the point where she is practically begging for sex. Use a firm “come-hither” motion pulling forward on the front vaginal wall and stimulating her g-spot.

16. Remove Her Pants, Sex

The idea is to get her so heated up by fingering her, that she makes a commitment to sex, verbally or physically.

There are a few ways to go about this. Firstly, it is very important that you don’t stop fingering her before her pants are off. Too many times a guy will stop fingering her, and then try to take off her pants, only to get more resistance.

While fingering her you can say “Do you want me inside you?” Which will usually get a “Yes.” response. At that point you say “Ok, take off your pants.” and continue to finger her until her panties are off, and she’s ready to go.

Another option is to skip the question and directly tell her to take off her pants. Usually with your fingers busy at work, she will be more than compliant.

Another technique is to ask her “Do you want me to get a condom?” In 90% of all girls you ask this, they will say “Yes.” Not because they are saying they want sex, but because they want to appear safe and level headed. You will interpret this as the permission to get a condom and have sex with her, and it will most likely be met without opposition.

***
Additional Points

1. Higher Levels Unlock Access to Lower Levels

The rungs of the DiCarlo Escalation Ladder may be treated exactly the same as compliance levels. The point is, any time you reach a higher level through situational relevance, it unlocks the lower levels automatically.

A good example of this is in a loud club or bar, you can reach in and talk directly into her ear, getting incidental class 3 kino, touching the side of your face to hers. You are speaking to her in a way that is dictated by the situation, so it is accepted. If you accomplish this without her resistance, all lower levels will become unlocked.

2. Execution of the Escalation Ramp

The escalation ramp, which consists of steps 8-16 is most effectively executed in isolation in a sex location. It is not efficient to start the ramp with the intention of finishing it at a later time. Starting the ramp without finishing it will lead to an increase in flaking and decrease a woman’s attraction toward you.

This is because these sexual behaviors were formed thousands of years ago when we were still living in caves. The natural instintual urges, combined with a lack of knowledge of modern-day sexual consequences meant that escalation with a woman would 100% of the time lead to sex.

By executing the ladder correctly, you are matching her genetic sexual programming and giving it to her the exact way that she wants it.

It is acceptable to do the first part of the ramp - kissing - outside of a suitable sex location, but only if you plan on completing the ramp later in that same meeting. It’s not to say that kissing a girl on a non-sex meet will destroy your chances, but it certainly won’t improve them. Kiss-closes may look impressive and feed your ego, but aren’t technically optimum.

3. Incidental Vs. Overt Kino

There is always a question as to how to execute these different pieces of kino. In general, you should spend most of your time in the incidental phase, getting her comfortable with contact in those regions.

This pattern of incidental followed by overt is almost like a Jedi mind trick. Use the incidental kino in a very non-invasive, very much under the radar manner, and her subconscious will automatically accept the subsequent overt kino.

Since she accepts the overt kino, it is through a process of backwards rationalization that her attraction for you increases. The key is to make the overt kino extremely short. Each overt phase in the initial ladder should have a duration of 5-10 seconds. You’re not going to be holding her hand in the club for 5 minutes at a time while in class 1. Keep it short and sweet.

4. Group Ladder Theory

There is quite a bit of evidence supporting the idea of a “group ladder” concept. Within a tightly knit group of girls who share a “collective emotional state” with each other, it is possible that whatever step on the ladder you achieve with one girl can transfer over very easily to the other girls in the group.

In a sense, each group of girls has a ladder, which represents your escalation with that group. If you can comfortably touch and hold a girl at a certain point in the ladder, it creates an implicit trust of “this guy is cool” for the other girls in the group at that same level. Keep in mind, however, this does not include the escalation ramp, although it has been observed to happen with kissing quite readily.

5. DiCarlo Escalation Ladder as a Standalone Method

The DEL provides both a sufficient framework for escalation and a linear step-by-step process such that it could be used as a standalone method. You can use one of the many popular verbal structures out there, but basic conversational skills will suffice, given an elementary understanding of the ladder.

There is an inherent value and attractiveness to a man who can escalate in such an intelligent and socially aware manner, which is why your verbal content does not matter very much when using this method.

The DiCarlo Escalation Ladder combined with enough conversational skill to disengage her critical mind is a very powerful, yet “natural” method.

Vincent DiCarlo aka Vin DiCarlo
"

[TTG]

Thanks Johnny!

[Tytalus]

Wow. Great thread.

[soup]

That's good stuff, especially the part about escalating properly to disarm last minute resistance later. I've read other examples of this that break it down into less nerdy terms- different stages of touching: social, friendly, romantic, sexual. I posted it on an earlier thread:

"There is no meaningless touching.

What you were doing was the second stage of kino escalation- friendly touching.

This is something you do after you've established social touching, and before you advance to romantic touch, and finally sexual touching.

You have to get green lights to go up the ladder. It's like the panama canal

From a well-known game manual:

Social Touch is the kind of touch that would be socially appropriate if the person you are touching is a complete stranger.

Generally, this kind of touch is on the elbow, shoulder, or hands. Common examples of social touch include:
• Physically demonstrative handshakes
• Touching someone’s arm or shoulder when you are making a point, showing a person something, or getting his or her attention
• High-fives


Friendly Touch implies that you and the person you are touching are more than strangers. However, it doesn’t necessarily imply romantic or sexual interest. For example:

• Your arm around someone briefly • Touch on the back
• Touch on the legs (in a seated position) but not the upper or inner thighs
• Fixing someone’s hair
• Extended touching of someone’s hands (Not holding hands – rather, the sort of hand touching if you were reading some one’s palm)
• Holding her hand with an excuse (e.g., “come with me”)
• Any kind of play fighting • Hugs or “French-style” cheek kisses • Role-playing touching

Romantic touch is something that implies a connection beyond the “just friends” level. But don’t assume anything. Until you’ve kissed her, she still has plausible deniability. She can be enjoying the feeling of Romantic Touch, enjoying the flirting, enjoying the sexual tension, and have absolutely no intention of proceeding further.
Examples of Romantic Touch include:

• Massages
• Stroking her hair
• Her sitting on your lap
• Holding hands
• Etc. (Note that Romantic Touch is not explicitly sexual.)
Kissing comes at the very end of Romantic Touch – and that’s where plausible deniability ends.

Sexual touch is the end zone of the physical mod- el. It includes anything past kissing."

--------

Heartiste also wrote about this:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/05/0...scalation/

"Another Game Concept Vindicated By Science: Kino Escalation
Incoming! The studies providing evidence for the effectiveness of one game technique after another keep rolling in like a tsunami, washing away throbby-veined feminists and mewling omega virgins in their wake. Glorious times for face-rubbing! The latest in this lie-smashing cavalcade is scientific proof for the game concept of kino escalation.

Why Light Touching Can Double Your Chances of Getting a Date

During a conversation, a light touch can impart a subliminal sense of caring and connection, leading to more successful social interactions and even better teamwork. [...]

Over the course of that day, three young and handsome French men [participating in a study] randomly approached 240 young women they spotted walking alone and propositioned each and every one of them. To each, they would utter exactly the same words: “Hello. My name’s Antoine. I just want to say that I think you’re really pretty. I have to go to work this afternoon but I wonder if you would give me your phone number. I’ll phone you later and we can have a drink together someplace.” If the woman refused, they’d say, “Too bad. It’s not my day. Have a nice afternoon.” And then they’d look for another young woman to approach. If the woman handed over her number, they’d tell her the proposition was all in the name of science, at which time, according to the scientists, most of the women laughed. The key to the experiment was this: with half the women they propositioned, the young men added a light one-second touch to the woman’s forearm. The other half received no touch.

The researchers were interested in whether the men would be more successful when they touched the women than when they didn’t. How important is touch as a social cue? Over the course of the day, the young men collected three dozen phone numbers. When they didn’t touch the women, they had a success rate of 10 percent; when they touched them, their success rate was 20 percent. That light one-second touch doubled their popularity. Why were the touched women twice as likely to agree to a date? Were they thinking, This Antoine is a good toucher—it’d probably be fun to knock down a bottle of Bordeaux with him some night at Bar de l’Océan? Probably not. But on the unconscious level, touch seems to impart a subliminal sense of caring and connection.

Raisin-sacked anti-gamers who have never left their basement hovels to try out a single game technique on a non-latex woman like to whine “Where’s the double-blind, controlled, blah blah blah scientific evidence for all these game theories?” Well, here it is, numbskulls. And there are plenty more in the archives of Le Chateau. Read them and feel your testicles descend.

Now, a number close rate increase from 10% to 20% is not huge. But keep in mind that the kino they tested was only a single, light, one-second touch on the forearm. Game theory espouses *escalating* kino, which involves increasing the frequency, duration and boldness (i.e. touching more erogenous zones on a woman) of kino throughout the seduction, gradually drawing the woman deeper into your sticky web of wonder.

Furthermore, game is a compendium of ploys, a symphony of stratagems. Kino is but one small part of the whole seduction process. If each game technique — say, negs, or DHV spikes, or body language — increases your close rate by 10%, then the sum of all game, deftly tallied, will surely increase your close rate by more than 10%.

Even a mere increase from 10% to 20% number close rate is worthy of bringing the Light of Game into your life. I think most betas would be thrilled to double their chances of scoring a random girl’s phone number.

Note the following line from the article. It’s very telling:

In fact, in studies in which the touched person was later debriefed about the experience, typically less than ­one-third of the subjects were even aware that they had been touched.

The master seducer’s game is so tight, that women will not even know they are being gamed. That’s the goal you should shoot for. If women are consciously aware of your game, you’re doing something wrong. Game isn’t a hammer to the head; it’s an electrified sensation that meanders just underneath conscious awareness, burrowing deep into the dark nooks of a woman’s hindbrain.

I don’t post these studies for the benefit of accomplished seducers who read here. They already know this stuff works, because they’re out there using it on women. They don’t need studies to tell them what they can see and hear and feel with their own senses. No, I post them primarily to get under the skin of haters. I can practically see them steam with impotent rage as they read the very thing they have claimed to want to read. I post them secondarily to illuminate fence-sitters who are open-minded to the enterprise of bedding women. But really, my first love is sadistically twisting the shiv in the loser mafia. Squeal like a pig, Gollum!"

[MrXY]

Quote:

The master seducer’s game is so tight, that women will not even know they are being gamed. That’s the goal you should shoot for. If women are consciously aware of your game, you’re doing something wrong. Game isn’t a hammer to the head; it’s an electrified sensation that meanders just underneath conscious awareness, burrowing deep into the dark nooks of a woman’s hindbrain.

Worth repeating

[horn]

Points 9 and 11 above are definitely clutch.

And I was slow in college but I eventually figured out that if a woman ever starts touching your abs [shirt on or off], that is a big green light. Take her immediately back to your place because that's as DTF as it gets.