[Shlomo Shekelstein]

Just lying awake unable to sleep, staring into the abyss for the millionth time and felt compelled to throw this out there, hoping someone has conquered a similar problem and feels like sharing their experience.

My shyness has both led me to and followed me through a handful of cities, alcoholism, cocaine abuse, benzo abuse, and eventually when the self-medicating stopped working, self-imposed isolation and schizoid-like withdrawal from life.

In the past I successfully channeled it into obsession with business and self-improvement but if anything, the resulting massively increased value and attractiveness only magnified the problem because of the increased attention and expectations that came along with it.

I don't really have any other insight except for the fact that this all seemed to begin a few years ago when I started smoking weed alone every night and discovered the manosphere. I was maybe a bit on the neurotic side before then but perfectly normal with a normal social life, friendships, and relationships. I stopped smoking years ago but the change in my internal thought processes have persisted ever since.

I can't stress enough how ready I am to take action and beat this, I could just really use some guidance and maybe a nudge in the right direction. I haven't been able to do it alone so far.

[Fortis]

Back when I was living in a hellhole city and hating my life. Someone gave me a mission to help me get over my social anxiety. I'm not toally over it, but I feel like you could put me in a room and I wouldn't totally isolate myself.

Here are a few basic things you can do.

Mission one

Frequency: once a week

Go to a local bar and on a dead night and order a beer or two and just talk to the bartender. Try to find a divey place since those sorts of bartenders are usually "real" people who aren't going to blow smoke up your ass. Just chat and get comfortable interacting with him. If you do this for a few weeks he'll probably get comfortable with you and like you. Chances are their are other diehards who come in. You'll eventually be in that circle since you're a nice dude and tip him well.

Once you feel like you can walk into that dive and be like "yo, bartender, what's up!" you can try this out:

Mission 2

Frequency: once a week

Just walk in there, get your beer, banter with your bartender friend and chill. Next, you should just walk around and introduce yourself to other people. Chances are, they've seen you before since you've been a regular for a month, so they'll be warm to your approach. Don't be too forceful, but if you're sitting there watching dudes play pool, ask if you can buy in a round and shoot a bit. Talk to them and be genuinely interested in their replies and try to find some commonalities. Do this once a week for a few weeks until you feel like you can walk into that bar and it's "your" bar.

The point of this is to get you comfortable in a new environment. The plus side of taking it slow like this is that you'll have some cool genuine connections with people and you'll make some new friends.

I use this method whenever I find a bar I like. I"ll come in regularly for a few weeks and just get familiar with the staff and management. I've used this so successfully in the past that there are a few bars back home where I could walk in right now (after 3 years abroad) and they'd feel like we never left off.

[Rudideviz]

Embrace higher self-awareness and consciousness as something that is a part of you, something that elevates you above others.

The first step is to really start seeing it as an asset and not a liability. Once you internalized this, your mindset will change and everything else will follow.

[Baphomet]

I and other guys here have advised joining a group called "Toastmasters." Trust me, they have a chapter near you. You will find that they are a very welcoming, and understanding group, and there will be others there that share your shyness.

A quick Google search will give you the next meeting near you. Whether you do this, or what Fortis sugested (though with your past of substance abuse, maybe a bar isn't the best place) the key is to do SOMETHING.

[King of Monkeys]

I've struggled with this a lot myself. The most difficult thing when dealing with shyness and self-conscious thoughts is how persistent it all seems to be. Once I get caught in a web of destructive, self-defeating thoughts inside my head during a conversation, I find myself experiencing an internal trainwreck inside my brain where it feels like there is no right thing to say or do in that moment and it goes to shit. I'm not quite as bad as I used to be, but I still find myself experiencing these things from time-to-time.

Personally, I started off from a point where I had very limited social skills. I didn't have the groups of friends or people I could consistently hang out with during my middle to high school years. I went to college and had no idea how to talk to people. I had trouble even saying a single word to anyone without getting huge spikes of anxiety.

What's helped me so far is getting jobs where I'm forced to interact with people. Since it's a job, it means I have to go out of my way to talk to and be around people. At my most recent job, I'm around my coworkers all the time. It took me around 6 months before I started feeling even remotely comfortably just being around these people. However, I was able to take smaller steps to get better at just interacting with other people. I picked up on what other people usually talked about between each other, how they joked around, etc. and then tried it out myself.

Like what other people here have said, I think what you need right now is a social circle where you meet the same people on a consistent basis. A place where you can meet and get to know the people around you means both you and them have a chance to get to know each other and become more comfortable with each other. I think having an environment where you can gradually teach yourself how to be less shy is a great place to start.

Also, I guarantee you that plenty of seemingly normal people experience shyness and self-consciousness all the time. There's a lot of people out there who refuse to go out to places without their group of friends in tow because they feel awkward and scared to go out and meet people by themselves. Others have to be drunk or high or whatever else to help them out.

The most challenging part about this stuff is the mental and emotional states you end up facing. Even when I do something well or don't fuck up, I can feel my brain fighting against positive thoughts because I'm so used to overly-criticizing myself and over-analyzing every little detail. I try to congratulate myself more when I do well or I'm doing something that's helping me out. And if I get negative thoughts popping in my head, I try to interrupt it with positive ones (e.g. "I don't give a fuck", "I'm the shit", etc.). A lot of this is simply unfucking your brain so it starts working for you instead of against you.

This shit can be really frustrating. A lot of the time you might feel like you're not getting better, but the reality is these things take time. As long as you keep at it, you will get and feel better.

[Montrose]

I have always been extremely shy. I thought it would go away with age but it hasn’t (I’m 50). However, I have become more comfortable at certain social interactions, and if you are smart at picking your battles you can manage.

It goes without saying that you should avoid all drugs and addictions. I find that a glass of wine is a good way to relieve mild social anxiety.

The first thing I learnt, when I was around 20, is the art of conversation. Conversation is a technique, it can be learnt if you input the necessary effort. Once you master conversation you go on dates, you talk to friends, they find you interesting, and practice will make you comfortable eventually. And you will be miles ahead of brainless extroverts who talk happily and confidently about subjects which bore everyone else to death.

Another skill to master is public speaking. This is a bit more complicated. I try to teach or give presentations at work when I have an occasion but I still look extremely uncomfortable when I speak in public (but I don’t care). Never be afraid of making a fool of yourself if there is no consequence (ie 99% of the time). This only requires courage. Behind shyness is FEAR but any man can overcome fear using only courage.

In work or social life, again, pick your battles. Don’t go to big parties where you won’t be at your advantage. Focus on meeting people in one-on-ones, text a lot if you know how to write, choose a job where you can be a behind-the-scene expert rather than a dealmaker. If you go to a party, list the 2-3 persons you need to talk to then leave. Keep dates and meetings very short and to the point, and follow up with developed emails and texts.

Shyness is a real problem. You can get comfortable with certain tasks (conversation, public speaking) but shyness will stay. On the other hand shyness has a social value, like all evolved human traits. Shyness makes you appear more sincere and more honest, and it is a signal that you value the opinions of others. It can also be endearing, particularly to women, if you usually come across as very strong or invulnerable, as I do.

[marcusdivincenzo]

There is nothing wrong with being shy. You need to accept that some people are made to be more social/talkative than others. That is just how we were created. If you have nothing to say, that is the universe's way of telling you that you need to shut up.

Once you truly accept your shyness, you will break out of the "I'm being too shy" thought loop. You will go back into the present moment and be able to engage with what the other person is saying. Paradoxically, in practice, this will cause you to be less shy.

[3extra]

Improv course.
Public speaking course.
Playing team sports.

[thebassist]

I think you need a good shock to your system to force you out of your current modes of thinking and habits, I believe this would make it easier to introduce some of the suggested changes to your life that have been mentioned in the previous posts.

Probably the best way to accomplish this would be through travel- deficiencies like yours can only be overcome through confrontation. Travelling solo will force you to out of your shell in an environment that is already extremely conducive to socializing. Go visit some places you've always wanted to go, stay in hostels, chill in the common areas, talk to people, flirt with girls, it might be hard at first but you'll very quickly realize just how easy it is to connect with people. Even if the prospect of going somewhere alone is daunting, just realize that plenty of people do it all the time, and it's much easier than you think to make new friends to do all the touristy shit together with while you're travelling.

And again, worst comes to worst, if you do something dumb and fuck up it doesn't even matter, you'll likely never see these people again anyway, and you'll get the chance to learn from your mistakes.

The other shortcut option that likely won't work anywhere near as well is to set aside a day for introspection and take some psychedelics (mushrooms or LSD both work quite well for me). If your mental stability is not there, however, I wouldn't recommend it, but if you have some experience with meditation and a good feel for handling tough introspective thoughts and emotions it can be a very rewarding experience. The downside of this option is that while it can help give you good insight into your negative patterns of behavior and their predictable outcomes, it is tough to make lasting changes to your lifestyle from these realizations after the glow of the trip fades away (from my personal experience at least).

Have you at any point seen a psychologist or therapist? If you find yourself unable to accomplish this on your own (and friends can only do so much), having someone who can give you outside insight and help you build the foundation you need to build a healthy sense of self can be invaluable.

[questor70]

(07-27-2018 04:56 AM)Shlomo Shekelstein Wrote:  

In the past I successfully channeled it into obsession with business and self-improvement but if anything, the resulting massively increased value and attractiveness

This I think is the root problem.

For whatever reason, you did massively increase your value (presumably by moving up the corporate ladder) but it didn't make you feel good about yourself.

Why?

I would start with career and not social life because it's more under your direct control. It's also something you've proven you can handle. If you entered into the wrong profession, find a new one that is more fulfilling.

More than anything else when you present yourself to others you are really selling what you do for a living. If you aren't happy with work then that negativity will ooze out in conversation and it will be unattractive. You can try to avoid it all you want but the conversation is going to always circle back to what you've been doing at work. If you're passionate about your job, even if it's a low-status one, that passion will be attractive.

[debeguiled]

(07-31-2018 09:07 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

I think you need a good shock to your system to force you out of your current modes of thinking and habits, I believe this would make it easier to introduce some of the suggested changes to your life that have been mentioned in the previous posts.

Probably the best way to accomplish this would be through travel- deficiencies like yours can only be overcome through confrontation. Travelling solo will force you to out of your shell in an environment that is already extremely conducive to socializing. Go visit some places you've always wanted to go, stay in hostels, chill in the common areas, talk to people, flirt with girls, it might be hard at first but you'll very quickly realize just how easy it is to connect with people. Even if the prospect of going somewhere alone is daunting, just realize that plenty of people do it all the time, and it's much easier than you think to make new friends to do all the touristy shit together with while you're travelling.

This worked for me. When you travel by yourself you have two choices, face your fears or be alone all the time. I went from the dude in the corner of the bar pretending he preferred reading to socializing to someone who, while not Mr. Extrovert, stopped thinking about himself enough to be curious about other people and willing to risk engaging, no matter the result.

Once you get over the hump it gets really easy.

When I came back from my first solo trip I actually had to break up with my girlfriend because she was shy, and she liked me better shy, so we could live in our own little safe world. She hated that I would chat up sellers at flea markets or waiters and supermarket checkers. She would get this pained expression and tug at my shirt to indicate her constant mood: Get me out of here.

One time after she had dragged me away from some interesting chat with a stranger, she looked me in the eyes and said: "I demand justice!" I said "What?" And she said, "you know, just-us." She was funny, I'll give her that.

This tells you something about shyness that you probably don't want to know. Losing it will improve your character because there is a certain level of narcissism lurking there, believing that every action of the self is so important that everyone is noticing and judging you when the reality is that they are more worried about themselves.

My girl didn't even see shyness as a deficiency. She was happy with it, being so important that she should never have to be made uncomfortable ever. In her case it was a form of control, because everyone else had to cater to the poor shy uncomfortable girl. It worked for her.

I'm not trying to be too negative here. Remember too that you have things to offer the world that will die on the vine if they are never expressed. Make it a priority, get out there, talk to people.

Also, try to avoid melodramatic language. "Soul crushing" is a bit over the top. It is hard enough being shy without weighing yourself down with self soothing exaggerations. If you don't know what I am talking about, read anything written by an *incel,* and try to avoid it. You don't want to indulge in a romantic wallow in your fears, which is safe, satisfying, and truly soul crushing.

Travel if you can, and leave your phone in the hotel room as much as you can.

[UniversalMen]

When I was in high school and for a couple of years of college I would take 'debate' classes. This really helped me with speaking with people (and arguing) but it did involve speaking to others out in public and challenging their ideas (in a respectful manner, of course).

Now, I rarely have an issue speaking to new people. Something worth trying.

[Supreme4ever]

Go to the Dr. ....... even if you don't take the meds the women will attack you like your the President. Just saying the fact. Would you want long term heck no but will you have fun with 9s and 8s being a mute of course.

[Northern Wastes]

What does this even mean? Are you suggesting he take prescription drugs to help his anxiety and shyness? OP sounds like he has had issues with drugs and alcohol before and used them as a crutch and probably should focus on a holistic approach to overcoming it. Otherwise good advice in this thread.

(08-01-2018 03:39 PM)Supreme4ever Wrote:  

Go to the Dr. ....... even if you don't take the meds the women will attack you like your the President. Just saying the fact. Would you want long term heck no but will you have fun with 9s and 8s being a mute of course.

[ADEBISIGARANA]

Suit up boot up! And go out solo. Sit at the bar alone and chat up the first stranger you see. Go out solo for about a year. By year two you shall have an unshakable confidence. I speak from experience. Safe travels