[puckerman]

For a long time, I have been the man who listens to women complain about men. Are you one of those men? Have you been one of them? Is there anything that is more disrespectful?

I was chatting on Facebook with a woman and used this analogy. Here is what I wrote to her:

"Let's imagine you are a restaurant manager. You work hard, and your restaurant has great food."

"You know a person who eats at lots of other restaurants. For some reason, this person never eats at your restaurant."

"However, this person comes and talks to you and complains about the other restaurants. This person criticizes all the other restaurants and their food. This person still never actually eats at your restaurant."

"Is that nice?"

This was the first time I ever called out a woman on this. Women love to do this with men whom they don't respect. It really is a shit test. I didn't get angry. I calmly just "walked away" from this conversation.

I also realize that when a woman complains it means that she simply sees me as a lady friend who just happens to have a penis. I am not a man and certainly not a boy friend or potential boy friend.

This wasn't a dating site. It's a woman I have known for over two years. She recently asked me for a favor out of nowhere.

[questor70]

This is why, like on a dating profile, I see it as a turnoff for women to issue a laundry list of red-flags and turnoffs (dick pics, shirtless selfies, etc...)

When you lead with negativity, even if that negativitity is reasonable, it is a turnoff itself.

[blck]

(12-17-2017 11:22 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

For a long time, I have been the man who listens to women complain about men. Are you one of those men? Have you been one of them? Is there anything that is more disrespectful?

Listening passively like some kind of confident is it the only way she wanted you to interact with her ?

(12-17-2017 11:22 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

This was the first time I ever called out a woman on this. Women love to do this with men whom they don't respect.

How did this worked for you ? Would you do it again ?

(12-17-2017 11:22 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

I didn't get angry. I calmly just "walked away" from this conversation.

Can you give us an other way things could have work out ?

[godfather dust]

I cut this shit off right away, one thing I say is "I'm not your therapist" and change the subject.

[treypound]

(12-17-2017 05:51 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  

I cut this shit off right away, one thing I say is "I'm not your therapist" and change the subject.

I had a woman try this on me recently, as somehow in conversation she went down memory lane reminiscing about her sexcapades with her ex. I literally cut her off mid sentence, told her i am not one of her girlfriends, and don't ever bring up what you do or did with another guy again.

[torridon747]

Haven't had a girl do this to me in a long time. I usually get offended they would even think that would be acceptable.

[BlackFriar]

unfourtunately....lots of people waste your time now a days. especially women.

[Dalaran1991]

If you spend more time with a women other than just ONS, you WILL hear them complain. Hell even for fuckbuddy relationship there's pillow talk.

No human being is perfect and it's just a girl's biological's trait to blabber about her experience, no matter how positive, passionate and fun-loving the girl might seem.

If you are just banging 5-7s and you dont care about retention, sure, kick her out as soon as she blabbers.

But from 8 and above, be thankful and listen when a chick opens her heart to you. She is giving you more information to seduce her. Her fear, her insecurity, her complexes. All info you can use.

There's a big difference between being a beta emo tampoon and being the father figure she's pouring her heart out to because she is seeking his approval and guidance. Be the latter.

If she's complaining to you about how other guys treat her badly however, you are either gay or you have some serious frame game to work on.

[BadgerHut]

There is one way this works - if she knows you are out laying the pipe, she'll see you as a wise learned man instead of a beta emo tampoon. That's hard to pull off though.

So yes, generally it's a waste of time to have this kind of chit-chat with girls.

I read something around the RVF or somewhere that guys need to listen more to what women communicate - not to the literal words they say,
You get women talking freely (i.e. build the proper comfort) and they really give waway how they think.

[Dalaran1991]

(12-18-2017 04:30 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

I read something around the RVF or somewhere that guys need to listen more to what women communicate - not to the literal words they say,
You get women talking freely (i.e. build the proper comfort) and they really give waway how they think.

It comes from the gospel of WestIndieArchie and The G Manifesto, enshrined members from RVF’s golden age.

They all eventually left because the forum becomes more and more about chest-thumping notch counting and women bashing, instead of the pursuit of true game and understanding of women to properly seduce them.

What WIA said was (if I remember correctly), it’s tough being a woman, because even when you are giving the guys in front of you all they need to seduce you, they would not listen, instead they tryna be captain save a ho and propose muhhh solution. Or they forgot the important bit.

But I guess the game has changed and nowadays fast notching is more in fashion. Aint nobody got time for seduction anymore.

[blck]

@Dalaran @Badger
I like to read those comments because You guys are right on this, Puckerman didn't see the emotional need underneath the words that were spilled.

[XXL]

All chicks complain. What matters is undertone and subtext not words.

if she complains you don't go out anymore she doesn't really miss going out to restaurants or parties specifically she's just expressing the lack of fun in her life. She says she feels tired she probbaly does not need a rest. Probably she has some problems or issues she needs to talk about with you.

However sometimes they just need to vomit that shit that eats them alive inside. I once asked my girl why women nag and complain. She told me.. "sometimes it's too hard not to complain and keep it inside. Saying it out loud just helps. It may be something stupid but still keeping it ylto yourself kills you inside"

[puckerman]

(12-18-2017 04:11 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

If you spend more time with a women other than just ONS, you WILL hear them complain. Hell even for fuckbuddy relationship there's pillow talk.

No human being is perfect and it's just a girl's biological's trait to blabber about her experience, no matter how positive, passionate and fun-loving the girl might seem.

If you are just banging 5-7s and you dont care about retention, sure, kick her out as soon as she blabbers.

But from 8 and above, be thankful and listen when a chick opens her heart to you. She is giving you more information to seduce her. Her fear, her insecurity, her complexes. All info you can use.

There's a big difference between being a beta emo tampon and being the father figure she's pouring her heart out to because she is seeking his approval and guidance. Be the latter.

If she's complaining to you about how other guys treat her badly however, you are either gay or you have some serious frame game to work on.

I totally agree with you on the part about a woman opening her heart. I wouldn't have an issue with a woman complaining about her job, her landlord, her roommate, her car, or her family. There are plenty of things women complain about.

But when she is complaining about guys she fucks or guys she wants to fuck, it is a sign of disrespect. She was mostly complaining about men she has meet on sites like Tinder. My analogy is totally accurate--she complains about other restaurants giving her bad food, yet she never eats at my restaurant.

[realologist]

A chick complaining is a perfect way to get into her emotions, into her head and then into her body. That's much more lasting than just fucking her.

Her emotions are already high if she's complaining. Spike her emotions more, then calm her down (comfort) and you will be closer than if you ignored it.

[Hypno]

Some good views on this thread about listening and calibrating.

But a lot of women are just negative.

Football coach Willie Taggart is famous for saying "Have a good day, if you choose to." The point is most of your reality is a choice.

[Cumlluminates]

I'm mostly into pumping and dumping, but if a chick starts complaining about something I don't care to hear about or it's too negative. I nip that shit in the bud immediately. Cause I ain't got time nor give time for that negative bull and I don't care enough to be Pepé Le Pew or some confidant.

[LatinoHeat]

I think if you're friends with girls and they are complaining about their boyfriends the problem isn't them, its you. Girls don't pull that kind of stuff on me because they know it's just disrespectful and i'll quickly change the subject.

If you think the right way to pass her so called "shit test" was to call her out on facebook with some snarky negatively tinged analogy you have failed my friend. When a girl pulls some shit on you (flaking, complaining about boys etc) and you call her out it esp in a salty or mean way it actually reinforces her belief and justifies that you were the "creep" she suspected of being after all. Yes its messed up isn't it, they will fuck with you, just to get a negative reaction out of you and then use the negative reaction they were fishing for to justify they were in the right for doing it. This is textbook classic girl logic and many guys fall for it. The best you can do is just ignore it, change the subject or cut her off etc. The way to pass shit tests is to ignore them.

Sending a sarcastic message about "eating at others restaurant" you just come off as a dick and possibly burn a relationship where all you needed to do was just stop answering her messages/calls and ignore her. Now if you see her at a social event she'll tell her friends your the guy who posted some "weird/creepy" message to her on facebook.

We all lose our temper on girls ever once in a while for flaking or acting stupid but can anyone on this forum say they didn't later regret it?

Regarding general complaining from your girls you're seeing/banging (traffic, her parents, work etc), you gotta balance things out. You don't want to be a doormat but being a good listener when women (or people) complain provides some level of rapport that you are a good listener (*hint big turn on for girls) and you can prod her to come up with solutions on her own.

This is something I learned from employee mgmt, when people just start bitching no matter what it is just go straight to "what are some ways we can fix this problem?" They'll either think of solution which will make them feel better and they stop bitching or if there is no easy way out of it, she'll realize stressing about it is a waste of both your time.

If she brings it up again you can point out you already found the solution, or there is no solution so no point in bringing it up again.

This is powerful as most women just complain as some base instinct action and never give it any second thought to view the complaints as problems and frame up solutions. This can help your girls stop bitching so much by teaching them how to use their head to fix their own problems and have them start associating complaining with solutions.

Women are going to complain, and if you listen attently, provide rapport and good advice they will see you as a wise dude that knows how to help her move past her problems, a strong wise alpha. You're now framing the relationship like you're the one who knows much more about life and wise. This "student teacher" dynamic is a big turn on for chicks regardless of what some others may say here.

That being said if you are around a girl that is bitching nonstop, that is no fun, thats a negative girl possibly beyond repair that should be promptly discarded.

Also you should be mindful of your time in general. The people in my life that I let blow steam off are limited to my brother, a few best friends and girls i'm banging.

[questor70]

(12-21-2017 05:18 PM)LatinoHeat Wrote:  

teaching them how to use their head to fix their own problems and have them start associating complaining with solutions.

Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus explained that when women complain that they are more interested in empathy than advice. Getting women to seek out solutions rather than solidarity is an uphill battle. This is, btw, a big reason why the self-help book industry is so popular with women. Women tend to let problems fester and escalate before they're forced to solve them. The classic case is when she's unhappy in her relationship with you but she avoids talking to you about it. You can bet she's busy "complaining" about you to her girlfriends, who are mostly just bobbleheading and not offering any helpful advice.

When she complains about past boyfriends, the story will likely be similar to what she told her girlfriends before she dumped her ex who was probably clueless until the hammer-dropped. When the hammer drops that's when she suddenly blurts out all of the "you always" and "you never" over issues that were never raised until then. (This leaves guys feeling like the only way to hold onto a woman is to develop ESP.)

Also, I can't say AWALT but a lot of them just can't handle advice from their partner because they think of it as a personal criticism and they expect only 100% acceptance/validation. I've stepped on that land-mine more times than I can count. I think this is a key difference in framing women have between the role close friends vs. lovers serve. Close friends can give them tough-love safely but their lover doing it risks getting a drink thrown in his face.

I have offered women advice that they wouldn't accept, only for their therapist to say the same damn thing. They just couldn't shake the idea I was saying something out of an ulterior motive.

[BadgerHut]

questor70 is 100% correct - any kind of advice/problem-solving is going to be seen by girls as criticism and thus as hostile behavior.

But it's worth re-emphasizing - don't believe that any kind of "listening" to women is a beta/unattractive move. As a dude, you can listen attentively to a woman and use that as a way to connect more deeply; on the other hand, you can also become beta-zoned if you start white-knighting and sucking up to her drama. If a woman is complaining or venting to you she is trying to connect emotionally. If you show you can emotionally resonate with her, and predict the social dynamics surrounding her, that's a high-status move.

If it's a woman you're not interested in or don't have a chance/opportunity with, then use a few minutes of her venting as a way to build her trust in you or practice your verbal game.

[DimeBait]

I can tell you with impunity that every date I've ever been on where I let the woman ramble on about her ex, or negative shit, I never got the poossy.
Women will associate you with those negative feelings. Yes, let her ramble on about positive shit, but cut her off from all ex talk.
Sometimes it's easy to let it go on because it's something she'll easily open up about, but it's a oneway road to nowhere.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

every date I've ever been on where I let the woman ramble on about her ex, or negative shit, I never got the poossy.

This has also happened to me, but by that time I've usually also decided she's too crazy/damaged and it's not worth going further. Once I hear about the "abusive" and "obsessed" ex and the "restraining order" the alarm goes off: time to bail.

[MajorStyles]

I love it when women complain, because that gives me the opportunity to be the biggest prick that I can be: i.e. ignore, agree and amplify, talk shit, etc. In short, it's like a personal challenge. A chance for me to shine as an asshole...

And invariably, I'm always rewarded. It's like women have put out a personal request with their bitching. And the question lingers: Do you have the courage to call me on my shit? Are you man enough to put me in my place? My answer is always the same: Yes! Yes! Yes! I can do it...and do it well. Ultimately, after the complaining has ended, I'm smashing it like a champ. As somebody once said (perhaps on this forum), "Always make her apologize with your c*ck in her mouth!" So true! Not even Aristotle could have said it better. The Manosphere is often more salient than the greatest wisdom of the ancients.

You have to learn this shit as a man. Don't run to the store and buy her roses and flowers, trying to quell the storm. Be a prick, stand tall, and remain cold and heartless. Then watch as the coins drop forth like a slot machine hitting the jackpot.

[StrikeBack]

If women regularly complain about their men (past, present, doesn't matter) to you, you have a reputation problem. Why do they see you as the communal emotion tampon?

The last time I got that was when I was in high school. The girl sitting next to me complained about her boyfriend to me. I ignored her bitching and asked her about her prettier girlfriend. She was pissed and never brought up her boyfriend to me again.

One of my groomsmen and I are polar opposite when it comes to this, and we have mostly the same social circles. He always gets these complaints and I don't. It's because he has a reputation for being a nice guy, a gentleman, someone everybody likes and wants to talk to about everything, while I have the rep for having extremely low tolerance for bullshit and whining. We actually brought this same thing up on my bucks night to talk about this very issue, among others, like their guessing that my wife must be extremely low drama for me to marry her, knowing my personality.

Women do complain a lot, but they should never complain about their past or present men to you. It's not how you should respond when they do, it's why they even feel comfortable to bring that up around you in the first place.

[Akwesi]

(12-23-2017 11:56 AM)MajorStyles Wrote:  

I love it when women complain, because that gives me the opportunity to be the biggest prick that I can be: i.e. ignore, agree and amplify, talk shit, etc. In short, it's like a personal challenge. A chance for me to shine as an asshole...

And invariably, I'm always rewarded. It's like women have put out a personal request with their bitching. And the question lingers: Do you have the courage to call me on my shit? Are you man enough to put me in my place? My answer is always the same: Yes! Yes! Yes! I can do it...and do it well. Ultimately, after the complaining has ended, I'm smashing it like a champ. As somebody once said (perhaps on this forum), "Always make her apologize with your c*ck in her mouth!" So true! Not even Aristotle could have said it better. The Manosphere is often more salient than the greatest wisdom of the ancients.

You have to learn this shit as a man. Don't run to the store and buy her roses and flowers, trying to quell the storm. Be a prick, stand tall, and remain cold and heartless. Then watch as the coins drop forth like a slot machine hitting the jackpot.

Great post, I know what you mean. Would love to hear some concrete examples of your tactics.

The other day one of my regulars was complaining on Whatsapp because the business she just opened had too many customers and she didn't have time for her own Christmas shopping. Such an idiotic complaint that I didn't even know what to say, I just stopped responding. Probably should have called her out on it instead.

[realologist]

(12-24-2017 04:22 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 11:56 AM)MajorStyles Wrote:  

I love it when women complain, because that gives me the opportunity to be the biggest prick that I can be: i.e. ignore, agree and amplify, talk shit, etc. In short, it's like a personal challenge. A chance for me to shine as an asshole...

And invariably, I'm always rewarded. It's like women have put out a personal request with their bitching. And the question lingers: Do you have the courage to call me on my shit? Are you man enough to put me in my place? My answer is always the same: Yes! Yes! Yes! I can do it...and do it well. Ultimately, after the complaining has ended, I'm smashing it like a champ. As somebody once said (perhaps on this forum), "Always make her apologize with your c*ck in her mouth!" So true! Not even Aristotle could have said it better. The Manosphere is often more salient than the greatest wisdom of the ancients.

You have to learn this shit as a man. Don't run to the store and buy her roses and flowers, trying to quell the storm. Be a prick, stand tall, and remain cold and heartless. Then watch as the coins drop forth like a slot machine hitting the jackpot.

Great post, I know what you mean. Would love to hear some concrete examples of your tactics.

The other day one of my regulars was complaining on Whatsapp because the business she just opened had too many customers and she didn't have time for her own Christmas shopping. Such an idiotic complaint that I didn't even know what to say, I just stopped responding. Probably should have called her out on it instead.

Perfect response for that. "That must be rough. It's not like anybody wants more money and a successful business tongue out emoji"