[EmotionalGeek]

Will you set up another date if You didn't manage to kiss the girl in first one? What is your limit and experience?

[MaceTyrell]

No future contact if I don’t get a kiss on the first date.

Even in my DEEP blue pill days I always got to first base. Some girls it “scared away” for moving too fast, but Roosh talks in Bang about the net benefit of forcing away a hesitant girl on the first date by kissing her/going for the bang.

[Batman_]

(11-11-2017 10:36 AM)EmotionalGeek Wrote:  

Will you set up another date if You didn't manage to kiss the girl in first one? What is your limit and experience?

It depends on why there was no kiss. Hypothetically speaking, if I went for a kiss/makeout on the first date and she rejects it, I would definitely not set up a second date. That said, I can't actually recall ever getting rejected for a kiss/makeout on a first date, since I almost always go for it unless I'm certain that shit is going nowhere.

There have been a few times where I didn't go for it on the first date (either due to a distinct lack of mutual attraction, or due to poor date location such as a coffee shop), in which case I did still set up a second date and fucked her by the third date. There was one girl that I didn't try to make out with on the first date, and so I did a short kiss at the end of our second date, which she seemed offended/upset about. In retrospect her reaction made me realize she was probably full of shit. She was in her late 20s and a bit of a narcissist so I suspect she probably was holding "tryouts" for some kind of unrealistic/idealistic man that she would only fuck out of a sense of obligation once she felt he met her "standards". So in short, I would say that if a girl won't make out with you at the end of a first date, let alone the second, or seems very off put by doing it, she is a complete waste of your time and I wouldn't bother with them under any conditions.

My general strategy is to always escalate as much as I can get away with so I don't waste my time. I'll try to makeout as early as I can during the first date and aim for a same night lay, otherwise I'll settle for a makeout at the end of the night and then push for sex on the second date. If I don't go for a makeout on the first date I'll go for a makeout on the 2nd date and expect to have sex by the 3rd at the latest, looking back though that has only happened when I was stupid enough to think coffee is a good first date activity.

[CaptainChardonnay]

You can try but usually the girls will feel like there wasn't any "chemistry" between the two of you and will probably not reply unless she's really into you.

Best thing is to kiss her around the middle of the date. Too late will seem too needy. Around the halfway mark of the date is ideal. Also remember to stop kissing her first, just a quick make out and then pull back.

[TheMaleBrain]

Once a year I conduct an experiment:
I "avoid" kissing on the first date. I just talk, and usually even not initiating contact. Kind of like a "blue pill" date.
It never makes it to second date.

Allways going for the kiss-close. In the case one of my current LTRs - I tried 5 times till I got it on the first date.

[Player_1337]

I subscribe to the ABC philosophy.

For the first meet, I always establish optimal logistics (at my place or very close to my place) and escalate as far as possible. Even if the chick is a dud or it fizzles out due to other mitigating factors, it's the most efficient and effective game plan.

Depending on the circumstances- the slow burn strategy might be optimal, but I don't have the patience due to women's flaky and flighty behavior (primarily online prospects).

My aggressiveness and same-day bangs might scare prospects off (even if good sex occurred and she conveys signs of extended interest) but I don't give a shit anymore.

[Oz.]

If there is no anal by the end of the night I don't consider it a successful first date.

[DigitalNomad]

I would normally rule out a 2nd date, the exception being in Ukraine.

[TripleG]

Surprised by all these answers here whereby 95% of the guys here are saying they go for a SNL on first date. Think about it, how many marriages or LTRs happened when a ONS/SNL happened? Probably few and to be honest it is almost as embarrassing as some blue pill guys nowadays sharing their stories of meeting their spouse via Tinder. I would definitely not feel comfortable revealing to friends or even my kids that an LTR resulted from a SNL. Perhaps I am older than most guys here (late 30s) but I still believe in not just physical attraction but mental/intellectual which can take a while to develop.

So to me it all depends on what I am looking for. I have had some memorable marathon dates (primarily "walking" dates in EE) which ended up with just a kiss on the cheek or even a hug at the end of the night however resulted in 2nd or 3rd dates. Some eventually turned into mini-relationships. Also as another poster mentioned many of my dates turn out to be "coffee" dates as I have a very hectic work schedule plus do sports in evenings so have little time for dating. Usually it is hard to build-up chemistry when one has less than optimal logistics and only an hour or so to chit-chat thus requiring a 2nd date.

[Batman_]

(11-11-2017 04:56 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Surprised by all these answers here whereby 95% of the guys here are saying they go for a SNL on first date. Think about it, how many marriages or LTRs happened when a ONS/SNL happened? Probably few and to be honest it is almost as embarrassing as some blue pill guys nowadays sharing their stories of meeting their spouse via Tinder. I would definitely not feel comfortable revealing to friends or even my kids that an LTR resulted from a SNL. Perhaps I am older than most guys here (late 30s) but I still believe in not just physical attraction but mental/intellectual which can take a while to develop.

So to me it all depends on what I am looking for. I have had some memorable marathon dates (primarily "walking" dates in EE) which ended up with just a kiss on the cheek or even a hug at the end of the night however resulted in 2nd or 3rd dates. Some eventually turned into mini-relationships. Also as another poster mentioned many of my dates turn out to be "coffee" dates as I have a very hectic work schedule plus do sports in evenings so have little time for dating. Usually it is hard to build-up chemistry when one has less than optimal logistics and only an hour or so to chit-chat thus requiring a 2nd date.

While I don't have a problem having sex on the 2nd or 3rd date, if the attraction is there why not fuck immediately? Sexual chemistry is extremely important and if you can determine that right away you'll save a lot of time. I can also make an argument for a marriage/LTR being successful from a SNL, SNL's can be indicative of raw primal sexual desire for each other, which I think can be a driving force for many relationships.

[pancakemouse]

I almost never kiss on first date. Blackdragon method:
http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2011/11/1...s-for-men/

[Steelex]

Some of you seem to have forgotten the golden mantra of sales... The ABC's.

Always be closing.

If she agreed to go on a date with you, then the majority of the time it's the things you do on the date that determine if you can kiss close. And then go for the bang.

Women flat out DO NOT MIND if you push for the bang on the first date. In fact, they LOVE it. Just because she says no doesnt mean it didn't have a positive impact, and set you up for future bangs. Women want aggressive men, not some little baby back bitch who is afraid to kiss her.

The fact of the matter is, any woman who has a problem with you pushing for a kiss or sex (as long as you're not overly pushy, mean, or rapey about it), doesn't want your dick and isn't going to want it in the future.

Push, push, push.

[pancakemouse]

(11-12-2017 01:35 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Some of you seem to have forgotten the golden mantra of sales... The ABC's.

Always be closing.

If she agreed to go on a date with you, then the majority of the time it's the things you do on the date that determine if you can kiss close. And then go for the bang.

Women flat out DO NOT MIND if you push for the bang on the first date. In fact, they LOVE it. Just because she says no doesnt mean it didn't have a positive impact, and set you up for future bangs. Women want aggressive men, not some little baby back bitch who is afraid to kiss her.

The fact of the matter is, any woman who has a problem with you pushing for a kiss or sex (as long as you're not overly pushy, mean, or rapey about it), doesn't want your dick and isn't going to want it in the future.

Push, push, push.

Blackdragon disagrees, at least in his model. From his book "Get to Sex Fast" (recommend buying it, it's worth it):

Quote:

1. It spikes “buyer’s remorse,” which is a form of post-date ASD.
When you make out with her and then you leave, she’ll go back
home and think, “OMG! I just kissed a guy I barely know! I don’t
even know his last name!” Now she thinks she’s acting like a “slut,”
her ASD fires up, and she makes the unconscious decision to not
talk to you anymore. Her woman logic tells her that if she keeps
talking to you, she’s encouraging her own “slutty” behavior, and
she can’t have that! So, she starts ignoring your texts, even though
she had a great time making out with you on the first date.

2. It murders sexual tension. On that first date, you’re going to be
exuding a sexual vibe, you’re going to be touching her, and you’re
likely going to talk about sex. This is all great. It ramps up her
sexual tension which is a more powerful attractor in women than
it is in men.

But when you end the date by kissing or making out with her, all
or most of that sexual tension flows away. All that work in build-
ing it up is wasted. She’s not that excited about seeing you again.
If instead, you ramp up her sexual tension, then at the end of the
date give her a confident hug and a wink and just leave her there
on the sidewalk, her sexual tension has no where to go. She just
watches you, still horny, still wanting you. She’ll be so horny that
she might even go home and masturbate while thinking about
you (women have done this after first dates with me, and I’m not
even good looking).

When she hears from you next, she’s excited and can’t wait to see
you again. The odds of her having sex with you skyrocket.

3. It presses down on her “Make Him Wait” button. Giving a wom-
an a “kiss goodnight” after a first date is a very beta male, 1950’s
act that advertises you not as an attractive Alpha, but as a beta
provider. She might like it, but she won’t want to have sex with
you quickly.

Compare two guys.

At the end of a first date, Guy A gives a woman a passionate kiss
goodnight, on the lips, after a first date, and then says “It was so nice to
meet you! We should do this again sometime!”

At the end of his first date, Guy B doesn’t kiss her at all, but instead
gives her a nice hug, then looks into her eyes, drags a single finger down
her face, smiles gently, says “Goodnight,” then just turns around and
leaves and doesn’t look back.

Which of these two guys is more masculine? Alpha? Attractive? Con-
fident? Which one of these guys is she hornier for? You know the answer.

He does give two exceptions, if you're aggressively going for first date lays and don't care about LMR/ASD, etc. and if you're sure the girl is willing to fuck you right then.

[Steelex]

I don't give a fuck about black dragon. It doesn't get faster than a first night lay.

Step 1. Meet her at a restaurant, have dinner and a couple drinks.

Step 2. Invite her back to your place to watch a movie.

Step 3. Escalate as much as possible.

Don't over complicate this. Most chicks who agree to go on a date are already attracted to you, and have already thought about sex with you. They want to smash.

Let me phrase it like this, if she went on a date and went home with a 6'4 black dude whos built like an NFL line backer and drives a new Charger on 22's, what do you think is gonna happen? He's gonna split her. No ifs ands or butts.

Closing on the date is almost entirely based on your own opinion and self image of yourself. If you know you can bury that pipe, your confidence will probably carry you through.

[Repo]

"Confident hug"

That is fucking rich

[pancakemouse]

(11-12-2017 03:29 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

I don't give a fuck about black dragon. It doesn't get faster than a first night lay.

Step 1. Meet her at a restaurant, have dinner and a couple drinks.

Step 2. Invite her back to your place to watch a movie.

Step 3. Escalate as much as possible.

Don't over complicate this. Most chicks who agree to go on a date are already attracted to you, and have already thought about sex with you. They want to smash.

Let me phrase it like this, if she went on a date and went home with a 6'4 black dude whos built like an NFL line backer and drives a new Charger on 22's, what do you think is gonna happen? He's gonna split her. No ifs ands or butts.

Closing on the date is almost entirely based on your own opinion and self image of yourself. If you know you can bury that pipe, your confidence will probably carry you through.

You probably should "give a fuck" about Blackdragon, considering he has the most efficient system in the game right now.

If you want to spend a ton of time and effort on fucking a girl once, and deal with logistics/last minute resistent, sure, go for the one-date smash.

Otherwise, stack 3 hour-long drinks dates with 3 different girls, then invite them over to your place for second dates and smash.

(11-12-2017 03:29 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Closing on the date is almost entirely based on your own opinion and self image of yourself. If you know you can bury that pipe, your confidence will probably carry you through.

Bullshit. I have an unlimited reserve of confidence. Didn't help get me laid. When I first started using online dating (Bumble) I made out with *every* girl on the first date. Then I'd invite them back to my place, and they'd either say no, or they'd have massive LMR.

This happened for 7 dates in a row, before I just started inviting girls to my place on the first date. Then I'd smash them every time.

Then I realized I couldn't get the high quality girls while doing this. So I go for a short first date, no kiss, then invite them over for dinner second date, and it has never NOT resulted in fucking a girl.

[Kieran]

^ how is it the most efficient system when it doesn't prescribe sex on the first date? You really think these girls haven't been fucked on a first date before?

[bgbusiness]

(11-12-2017 03:29 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Step 1. Meet her at a restaurant, have dinner and a couple drinks.

(11-12-2017 03:29 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Don't over complicate this.

Why dinner?
That's complicating, which you didn't want to do.

[Steelex]

Yeah I mean meeting her at your house is a little more efficient. But most chicks don't feel cool going straight to your place on the first date without atleast spending a little time chatting and socializing with you. Especially if you met online or through day game.

To me, going to dinner and then back to my place has always been a really reliable way to get laid on the first date. Is it efficient as just clubbing her on the head and dragging her back to my den? No. But it's efficient enough and has a fucking awesome success rate.

[just a human]

As a night gamer, i kiss usually at first couple of songs /dances. That doesn't mean 100% that she wants to be fucked that night, but it's a good sign. But this year one girl refused to kiss in the club ant went home. But on the second date (two weeks later!) she gave me all kinds of sex. So- life is interesting and unpredictable...

[EndsExpect]

(11-12-2017 03:56 PM)Repo Wrote:  

"Confident hug"
That is fucking rich

Hahaha! Exactly what I was thinking. My version of a "confidant hug" has one hand squeezing her ass. I suppose I can use both hands and become extra confident.

[Player_1337]

(11-13-2017 10:49 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

Yeah I mean meeting her at your house is a little more efficient. But most chicks don't feel cool going straight to your place on the first date without atleast spending a little time chatting and socializing with you. Especially if you met online or through day game.

To me, going to dinner and then back to my place has always been a really reliable way to get laid on the first date. Is it efficient as just clubbing her on the head and dragging her back to my den? No. But it's efficient enough and has a fucking awesome success rate.

I don't buy food (usually have her over for food rather than restaurant bs) unless I know she's somewhat of a quality person (volunteers to bring alcohol, her overall demeanor) and/or we're actively fucking.

If it's the first time meeting, I don't want to give these potentially low-character quality woman the satisfaction (of a 'date') or any of my resources until they're properly screened. This is why I prioritize fresh direct or drinks at a venue near my pad- and always go for the bang if I'm feeling it. Women are masters at wasting men's time/resources in myriad of ways. Don't play their game.

In the past (i.e. after multi-round drink dates), I've been hosed by chicks who don't even have the decency to call or text back.

[kaotic]

At minimum you should be taking a girl out for appetizers and at most hug close her on the first date.

[Steelex]

(11-13-2017 12:03 PM)Player_1337 Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 10:49 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

Yeah I mean meeting her at your house is a little more efficient. But most chicks don't feel cool going straight to your place on the first date without atleast spending a little time chatting and socializing with you. Especially if you met online or through day game.

To me, going to dinner and then back to my place has always been a really reliable way to get laid on the first date. Is it efficient as just clubbing her on the head and dragging her back to my den? No. But it's efficient enough and has a fucking awesome success rate.

I don't buy food (usually have her over for food rather than restaurant bs) unless I know she's somewhat of a quality person (volunteers to bring alcohol, her overall demeanor) and/or we're actively fucking.

If it's the first time meeting, I don't want to give these potentially low-character quality woman the satisfaction (of a 'date') or any of my resources until they're properly screened. This is why I prioritize fresh direct or drinks at a venue near my pad- and always go for the bang if I'm feeling it. Women are masters at wasting men's time/resources in myriad of ways. Don't play their game.

In the past (i.e. after multi-round drink dates), I've been hosed by chicks who don't even have the decency to call or text back.

I guess it all comes down to what works for you. To me it's not a waste. I'll typically close the deal 4 out of 5 first dates using the method I mentioned above.

Like everything else in game, your mileage may vary.

[Vill@in]

If I spend even one goddamn penny on a chick, you can be damn sure I'm going for the kiss.

Since swallowing the RP, most of my first meet ups/dates just involve meeting up for a drink (or coffee). Since I initiate setting everything up, I'll usually pay for the drink(s). I have been on a few meet ups/dates where we split the bill. Some have ended with bangs, but all have at least ended with a kiss.

I'm with Steelex on this one, don't be a pussy. Women want a MAN. Go for the kiss at the end (if you're feeling her). Don't waste YOUR time otherwise. If she's not willing to kiss you, then you're probably dead in the water. You should have other chicks to take out rather than setting up some kind of pyramid scheme to build attraction over the course of multiple dates.

Quite simply: You can't negotiate attraction. A woman knows within the first few moments of meeting you if she'll fuck you.