....
LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Gentlemen, how do you maintain frame in an LTR or marriage over time?
Looking forward to the discussion.
Looking forward to the discussion.
Quote: (02-18-2019 12:20 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:
Gentlemen, how do you maintain frame in an LTR or marriage over time?
Looking forward to the discussion.
That's an obvious one.
I currently have 2 MLTRs: the first has been around for 4 years and the second 2 years.
They don't live with me (obviously).
I make the effort to maintain frame, as much as possible.
I noticed (with the first) that if you let your guard down long enough you start getting drama.
Case in point:
A month ago #1 was switching work place. This caused her anxiety. She started "using me as an emotional tampon" to the point that she contemplated not having sex on our meeting (that is a must since we've been dating and "is allowed" only on special circumstances). That was because she "felt that she only needed to talk". I, knowing that tomorrow I would be meeting #2, told her it is fine by me.
She exploded and after several minutes I soft nexted her over the weekend. She called me after the weekend and all was back to normal.
This happens every few months (not the exact same scenario).
When I was married, I was blue pill and of course I did not maintain frame.
How to maintain frame:
1. Establish acceptable behaviors - even if there is an objection.
2. Soft next or punish otherwise when boundaries are passed.
3. Keep the same frame by : using pet name, assertion of dominance as a rule ("We'll be going out to place X"), make her cum every time.
I bet others have more on the subject.
"I love a fulfilling and sexual relationship. That is why I make the effort to have many of those" - TheMaleBrain
"Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Does an LTR quality girl care how many women you have slept with? Even if you don't tell her, she may find out. Will that turn her off you?
If she doesn't raise the issue then there's not much you can do about it.
If she does raise the issue then you can ask her if she'd rather be with a guy that can't even figure out how to work her bra strap (obviously not a go-to line if you still have trouble with bra straps).
Over a longer course you can ask her "are you a notch or are you a keeper?"
She's obviously going to want to be a keeper.
"Lucky you. They lost and you won. Feel free to gloat if you run into one."
If she does raise the issue then you can ask her if she'd rather be with a guy that can't even figure out how to work her bra strap (obviously not a go-to line if you still have trouble with bra straps).
Over a longer course you can ask her "are you a notch or are you a keeper?"
She's obviously going to want to be a keeper.
"Lucky you. They lost and you won. Feel free to gloat if you run into one."
The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
Quote: (02-18-2019 12:20 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:
Gentlemen, how do you maintain frame in an LTR or marriage over time?
Looking forward to the discussion.
Depends on the situation, but I will take control over all aspects of our lives and then direct roles from there. When she does her role well, I make sure to acknowledge her growing mastery. When she fucks up, look her hard in the eye and tell her to stop making such a big deal about it, and that 'we' will figure it out. This gives her confidence that her mistakes have a backstop, and that I will always have the upper hand. At this point, I rely on my wife to such an extent that I would have to hire two or three people to replace her if she died, in order to continue to live my life as I do now.
Women don't really like making decisions, as they don't like screwing up. Anyone who works with them can attest to this, which is why most cling to government jobs where there is zero accountability.
Women who are comfortable fucking up tend to have higher risk jobs and are the bread and butter of booty calls and bar bathroom bangs. Not the kind of woman you would be marrying.
Quote: (02-19-2019 11:58 AM)GibsMeDat Wrote:
Does an LTR quality girl care how many women you have slept with? Even if you don't tell her, she may find out. Will that turn her off you?
I think it depends on the girl. Outside of Christian communities, it's unlikely that being a virgin will be seen as positive. I think that if you can signal that sex outside of relationships is something you did in the past, but don't do now, it's probably a "turn-on", even if you've got a high n-count.
Quote: (02-19-2019 11:58 AM)GibsMeDat Wrote:
Does an LTR quality girl care how many women you have slept with? Even if you don't tell her, she may find out. Will that turn her off you?
Yeah, but this is a quality vs quantity issue for you. Obviously you shouldn't give off the virgin vibe, but at the same time, you need good social proof, meaning you need to have a history of dating attractive and at least somewhat decent girls. If she finds out that you used to dumpster dive or date below her level, she will have nothing but contempt for you. However, if she knows that you have dated a lot of quality in the past, you get all the advantages, mainly from her doing all the mate guarding through her jealousy and satisfied hypergamous instinct.
Regardless, never tell her the exact number. You only ever need to tell her that you choose her over other candidates. As for who the candidates are / used to be, let her find out for herself. Also, keep in mind that girls that are obsessed with you, that you never actually banged, can seem like more of a threat (in a good way, for you) to her than girls you've slept with.
Quote: (02-20-2019 10:38 PM)josn123 Wrote:
I think it depends on the girl. Outside of Christian communities, it's unlikely that being a virgin will be seen as positive.
Christian women are women first. Whatever positive things they might say about male virgins, they sure don't show any respect or love towards the virgin Churchian boys they either refuse to date, or marry and keep in blue-balled hell.
A thing I've noticed with women (especially in relationships) is that if we happen to get into an argument (sometimes even a minor one), many of them will try to "punish" me with silence for a few days. They could go from sending sweet texts and contact me every day to a sudden silence right after that.
Before, in my younger days, I used to of course think that this was a good opportunity for me to "man up" and show that I am "the bigger person" and a mature man. So I would be the first to try and seek contact and try to make up.
But that strategy seemed to only make the girl do it more frequently and still expect me to be the one who tries to make up every time there was something she was butthurt and unpleased with.
The other strategy is, of course, to wait things out until the girl actually decides to "give up" and contact me.
Either way, I don't think this kind of behavior is worthy of a girl with LTR potential and I feel it's not something I have the energy to deal with anymore.
I guess nowadays I think of it as I just "screen" the girl to see how she handles an argument and if she's mature enough and is willing to sacrifice her pride for the sake of our relationship.
I would be interested in hearing some thoughts on this?
I don't know if I'm having too high standards or something but once I see this I feel like nexting the girl (even if she's usually super sweet).
At the same time, I'm a bit unsure if it's just because I'm dealing with a much younger, immature woman and that I should be more forgiving to a young girl who acts like this once in a while. And if there's potential for her to change. I kind of just want a sweet feminine woman who bakes me cookies a couple of hours after an argument and tries to make up with me, not someone who goes cold, puts on a shield and treats me with silence.
Thoughts on this topic of cold silent treatment?
Before, in my younger days, I used to of course think that this was a good opportunity for me to "man up" and show that I am "the bigger person" and a mature man. So I would be the first to try and seek contact and try to make up.
But that strategy seemed to only make the girl do it more frequently and still expect me to be the one who tries to make up every time there was something she was butthurt and unpleased with.
The other strategy is, of course, to wait things out until the girl actually decides to "give up" and contact me.
Either way, I don't think this kind of behavior is worthy of a girl with LTR potential and I feel it's not something I have the energy to deal with anymore.
I guess nowadays I think of it as I just "screen" the girl to see how she handles an argument and if she's mature enough and is willing to sacrifice her pride for the sake of our relationship.
I would be interested in hearing some thoughts on this?
I don't know if I'm having too high standards or something but once I see this I feel like nexting the girl (even if she's usually super sweet).
At the same time, I'm a bit unsure if it's just because I'm dealing with a much younger, immature woman and that I should be more forgiving to a young girl who acts like this once in a while. And if there's potential for her to change. I kind of just want a sweet feminine woman who bakes me cookies a couple of hours after an argument and tries to make up with me, not someone who goes cold, puts on a shield and treats me with silence.
Thoughts on this topic of cold silent treatment?
I believe a "Soft Next" would be more valuable in this case.
Women will behave based on their emotions. Simply except it, but inform them (in advance) that should it happen you will withdraw from her presence. Give it a few days and then come back as if nothing happened.
If she wants to talk about it in a calm manor, great. If she want to shout (unjustifiably) you should Hard Next her.
Even better if you follow CH's command VII. "Always keep two in the kitty". That way she holds almost no power over you.
Women will behave based on their emotions. Simply except it, but inform them (in advance) that should it happen you will withdraw from her presence. Give it a few days and then come back as if nothing happened.
If she wants to talk about it in a calm manor, great. If she want to shout (unjustifiably) you should Hard Next her.
Even better if you follow CH's command VII. "Always keep two in the kitty". That way she holds almost no power over you.
"I love a fulfilling and sexual relationship. That is why I make the effort to have many of those" - TheMaleBrain
"Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Problem with cohabitating with them, the "soft next" gets removed from your arsenal as a tool for behavior correction.
I don't cohabitate, but have noticed they love to kick off drama when you go on holidays with them, they sort of realise "here is my chance to create drama and he can't soft next me!"
I don't cohabitate, but have noticed they love to kick off drama when you go on holidays with them, they sort of realise "here is my chance to create drama and he can't soft next me!"
Women love the drama, they get an emotional rush out of that argument they are pushing for.
Sometime I let mrs sp have that argument but my latest tactic is when I return from wherever I have gone, I just act like nothing happened and we continue as normal.
It’s weird but seems to work. It must be linked to that need for a bit of drama
Sometime I let mrs sp have that argument but my latest tactic is when I return from wherever I have gone, I just act like nothing happened and we continue as normal.
It’s weird but seems to work. It must be linked to that need for a bit of drama
Gentlemen, how often do you guys text or call in an LTR?
"The model for the application of your principles is be the boxer rather than the gladiator. The gladiator puts down or takes up the sword he uses, the boxer always has his hands and needs only to clench them into fists"-Marcus Aurelius
Half as many times as she does
Quote: (03-05-2019 03:10 PM)ManofLetters Wrote:
Gentlemen, how often do you guys text or call in an LTR?
Now it's pretty much only for "logistics" (e.g. staying late at work, groceries, etc.) or to show appreciation for small things done in the house. (+ the occasional funny meme).
There's not much in life that literally cannot wait until you get back home. No reason to be stuck on your screen 24/7. Even when I was doing long distance, I could spend 4-5 days without giving a sign of life. Bonus point, you'll have much more to talk about the next time instead of scratching your head and trying to think of a clever way to be original & entertaining day after day.
Quote: (02-27-2019 01:48 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:
Thoughts on this topic of cold silent treatment?
You call her bluff.
If she goes silent for 2 days and then calls you, she figures that she's punished you enough and you can be a good boy now as you want her time and attention.
Let the phone ring 4 times and then swipe 'reject'. She'll know that you've seen that it's her and that you don't give a shit. Her id will say "HOW DARE HE"...and her vagina will go *tingle tingle*.
Ignore her for another day and then let her reestablish contact. If she gives you shit, you shrug and say "Meh, I thought we weren't talking?" The key here is that it is on your terms. You give the attention as a reward for good behaviour, she doesn't get to demand it from you. If she ghosts over this then she's not a keeper as you'll have to do things on her terms, i.e. she has all the power, and that's going to be hell in the future. Nip it in the bud, let her know that she has no power over you, and her behaviour will adjust. If it doesn't, save yourself the pain and bin her off.
The key to this is that you must have the ZFG mindset. She'll instinctively know if you're bullshitting, women are highly tuned to sniff out weakness. ZFG is your friend, embrace it and you will always have power over yourself in the relationship.
tl;dr: be an asshole.
You don't reward women who use the silent treatment with a LTR.
Generally women do these things to get attention. They keep doing it because it got them attention in the past. So if you don't want such behaviours, don't give them any attention when they engage in them. If they do it anyway regardless of your disapproval, don't get into a LTR with or marry them.
I told my wife early on that she has earned a special privilege in my life, that she is the only one who can talk to me about anything and everything, and I will never get upset at her for bringing them up to me, but will give her and her concerns the highest priority. I also told her that this special privilege is granted only because she does well in her role as my wife and behaves as Mrs Strikeback should.
My wife has never attempted the silent treatment drama, not only because she hated seeing it in her own family when she was a child, but because she fears my disapproval more than her cravings for silly woman drama. And besides, her fear of my disapproval kinda feeds er emotional roller-coaster need anyway.
Funny thing is, she is often worried that *I* am the one giving her the silent treatment when, as a man with introverted tendencies, I would from time to time sit silently with a stern facial expression while thinking about literally nothing or about some random topic that has nothing to do with her. She would ask, worryingly "are you OK husband, are you upset?" To which I'd laugh and say "no silly wife, I'm just resetting my busy brain" or something like that. She loves it when I both care about her concerns yet don't take them seriously.
Generally women do these things to get attention. They keep doing it because it got them attention in the past. So if you don't want such behaviours, don't give them any attention when they engage in them. If they do it anyway regardless of your disapproval, don't get into a LTR with or marry them.
I told my wife early on that she has earned a special privilege in my life, that she is the only one who can talk to me about anything and everything, and I will never get upset at her for bringing them up to me, but will give her and her concerns the highest priority. I also told her that this special privilege is granted only because she does well in her role as my wife and behaves as Mrs Strikeback should.
My wife has never attempted the silent treatment drama, not only because she hated seeing it in her own family when she was a child, but because she fears my disapproval more than her cravings for silly woman drama. And besides, her fear of my disapproval kinda feeds er emotional roller-coaster need anyway.
Funny thing is, she is often worried that *I* am the one giving her the silent treatment when, as a man with introverted tendencies, I would from time to time sit silently with a stern facial expression while thinking about literally nothing or about some random topic that has nothing to do with her. She would ask, worryingly "are you OK husband, are you upset?" To which I'd laugh and say "no silly wife, I'm just resetting my busy brain" or something like that. She loves it when I both care about her concerns yet don't take them seriously.
Quote: (03-05-2019 03:10 PM)ManofLetters Wrote:
Gentlemen, how often do you guys text or call in an LTR?
Texting - every day.
This is relationship maintenance.
Calls - infrequent
I see them usually 1.5-2 times a week (1.5 = 3 times in two weeks). So calls are optional.
If they ask me (face to face) that I call them more, I tell them (and have repeatedly done so) that my need for calls is different than theirs. If they want to call, they should text to ask.
I may call for logistics (rare, texts are good enough) or if I'm on a long drive and want company.
However
This is established early in the relationship. You need to set the frame of you rarely using the phone other than texting.
I had girls bitching about it, but no one broke up with me on that.
I am open to "frequency negotiation" but I tell them that it's thier responsibility, since I care less for calling.
"I love a fulfilling and sexual relationship. That is why I make the effort to have many of those" - TheMaleBrain
"Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Quote: (02-27-2019 03:01 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:
Problem with cohabitating with them, the "soft next" gets removed from your arsenal as a tool for behavior correction.
I don't cohabitate, but have noticed they love to kick off drama when you go on holidays with them, they sort of realise "here is my chance to create drama and he can't soft next me!"
2016. In an LTR. She was away for the summer. Met her in Europe for a vacation. First time I saw her in 6 weeks, and she had an attitude. I was freaking out, angry that after not seeing her, the first thing she'd do is give me attitude about something.
Now I get it
Strikeback nails it as usual.
Truth be told I had to deal with the silent treatment a few times early in my relationship. I've always had more nerve than her so I'd let her burn herself out for a few hours and then tell her to sit at the table or wherever in a tone that indicated it wasn't optional.
Then I'd instruct her to speak, in a tone that also indicated it wasn't optional. She cracked 3 for 3 times and didn't pull the silent routine after that, mostly because I handled her complaints fairly and reasonably. After the third time it finally occurred to her that I was reasonable and approachable enough not to have to play those types of stupid games.
Training, same as dogs and children.
Truth be told I had to deal with the silent treatment a few times early in my relationship. I've always had more nerve than her so I'd let her burn herself out for a few hours and then tell her to sit at the table or wherever in a tone that indicated it wasn't optional.
Then I'd instruct her to speak, in a tone that also indicated it wasn't optional. She cracked 3 for 3 times and didn't pull the silent routine after that, mostly because I handled her complaints fairly and reasonably. After the third time it finally occurred to her that I was reasonable and approachable enough not to have to play those types of stupid games.
Training, same as dogs and children.
The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
Quote:Quote:
Training, same as dogs and children.
When I was in my early 20s and just got into reading some manosphere content (back then it was mostly PUA stuff), I remember some guru recommended reading a dog training manual. I never did read it, but as I knew how to train dogs (was always decent at it since childhood) it instinctively made sense to me that it's how you would teach your LTR/wife and children.
Thank you for all the very good replies earlier!
I have been seeing this girl who is very sweet (at her best), but she has done some things during our time that I think is just a dealbreaker now...
We had a minor argument at the last week of February and she went cold for a few days and then we eventually got back to talking together.
She started a more intense period in her studies here in March (it will last til end of May) and went from texting me every single day, talking on the phone 2-3 times/week and seeing each other regularly to now where she can't even send me even a "goodnight" message and have sometimes not even replied to my messages (where I tried to be supportive) and taken with 2-3 days in between writing something short. Tried to schedule a meetup or just a call but she ended up flaking on that and not rescheduling.
I asked her about this and she claims to be stressed out and depressed over her studies because the pressure is overwhelming. But she has time to hit the gym and log on to Whatsapp a few times per day. She also wrote this "I know I can't expect you to tolerate it", as if she understood if I would break up with her because she was in her own world. That told me that there would be zero fucks given if I even played some dread game.
Meanwhile, I would think that when a woman is in love and is in a situation like this, she'll be apologetic and promise that she'll try to make the best of the circumstances. If she actually loves the guy, which she has told me she does.
I'm not entirely sure if I am right but from my perspective, it seems like there was something that happened with that silly argument we had in February. My gut feeling is that I suddenly went from hero to zero in her eyes and she lost all emotions and so on during that.
It's something I noticed with a few other women too. Experiences together and bonding that has been built up over several months can just suddenly vanish in a matter of minutes with a lot of women and it's like nothing you ever did for them has ever mattered. Ice cold.
I feel pretty damn annoyed and disrespected with the sudden cold behavior even though I have been at University myself and know it's very hard sometimes, but this level of cold behavior? In my eyes, she could told me beforehand and said that she would be busier than Beyoncé so that she couldn't even reply to a text for several days. Or she could have just called me up for 10 minutes to say that she's really sorry.
I try to be understanding with people but I think this is too much, so I'm thinking about ending this before the end of the week. If she comes running back after me then, then great but I sense I lose respect to myself by letting myself be treated like I'm not a prize.
But would be nice if someone gave me their 2 cent on this first though?
I have been seeing this girl who is very sweet (at her best), but she has done some things during our time that I think is just a dealbreaker now...
We had a minor argument at the last week of February and she went cold for a few days and then we eventually got back to talking together.
She started a more intense period in her studies here in March (it will last til end of May) and went from texting me every single day, talking on the phone 2-3 times/week and seeing each other regularly to now where she can't even send me even a "goodnight" message and have sometimes not even replied to my messages (where I tried to be supportive) and taken with 2-3 days in between writing something short. Tried to schedule a meetup or just a call but she ended up flaking on that and not rescheduling.
I asked her about this and she claims to be stressed out and depressed over her studies because the pressure is overwhelming. But she has time to hit the gym and log on to Whatsapp a few times per day. She also wrote this "I know I can't expect you to tolerate it", as if she understood if I would break up with her because she was in her own world. That told me that there would be zero fucks given if I even played some dread game.
Meanwhile, I would think that when a woman is in love and is in a situation like this, she'll be apologetic and promise that she'll try to make the best of the circumstances. If she actually loves the guy, which she has told me she does.
I'm not entirely sure if I am right but from my perspective, it seems like there was something that happened with that silly argument we had in February. My gut feeling is that I suddenly went from hero to zero in her eyes and she lost all emotions and so on during that.
It's something I noticed with a few other women too. Experiences together and bonding that has been built up over several months can just suddenly vanish in a matter of minutes with a lot of women and it's like nothing you ever did for them has ever mattered. Ice cold.
I feel pretty damn annoyed and disrespected with the sudden cold behavior even though I have been at University myself and know it's very hard sometimes, but this level of cold behavior? In my eyes, she could told me beforehand and said that she would be busier than Beyoncé so that she couldn't even reply to a text for several days. Or she could have just called me up for 10 minutes to say that she's really sorry.
I try to be understanding with people but I think this is too much, so I'm thinking about ending this before the end of the week. If she comes running back after me then, then great but I sense I lose respect to myself by letting myself be treated like I'm not a prize.
But would be nice if someone gave me their 2 cent on this first though?
Whining to a woman to text you more, reply to your texts and send you "goodnight" messages is beta.
Shes not sending them because she lost attraction (studying, busy and you getting beta on her)
Best thing to do is not ask for messages, reply less and with greater gaps than her, and game other women.
Shes not sending them because she lost attraction (studying, busy and you getting beta on her)
Best thing to do is not ask for messages, reply less and with greater gaps than her, and game other women.
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)