[april6e]

I would post this in the newbie forum but I need answers from veterans. Have you ever encountered a guy, in the US, who acted passive and had relative success with women without possessing any "golden traits" (wealth, height, etc.)? Obviously you could be rich, have high status or whatever and get away with anything but I'm specifically talking about people within normal means.

I'm well aware of how unacceptable it is to women in the US when a man does not lead the interaction. You might as well be a leper.

I've tried the "macho" act. The typical personality that every single PUA, forum poster and even men that aren't in the community promote or use with women. Either the cocky and funny charmer or the confident, sexually aggressive deal. I get initially positive responses from women and then everything collapses when we are in person and they see I'm nothing like the character I was playing online or during the initial meeting. I've literally been called out on dates.

I've always been the "support" type. The guy who makes the perfect pass that leads to the hero scoring the game winning goal. Men, at least in my opinion, make the cards they have in their hand work, despite what the world claims works or doesn't work. But even I am not silly enough to waste my entire life attempting something that will never work.

I'm curious whether you have seen normal men playing a very passive, reactive sort of game and succeeding. Or whether I should focus on forcing myself to learn typical game, even if I'm miserable playing a character that is the complete opposite of my personality.

[kinjutsu]

A girl or woman would never be into a guy like this because he isn't someone showing her is her best mate choice.

[birthday cat]

I'm not a veteran but I don't know how important that is since you already answered your own question. "You might as well be a leper."

My guess is that you need to develop your personality instead of being "miserable playing a character that is the complete opposite of my personality."

I read some of your other threads and I think you should find a way to meet with some guys who are successful with women. I think you have been at this for a while without making much progress and you are frustrated. I think you need guidance from someone who can see you and talk to you in person.

[dknightbro]

I was like this initially coming up in the game.

It was hard work trying to maintain that "alpha" character.

Now I'm more experienced, I simply DGAF. I'll go alpha when I want to or go passive when I want to. I don't care about what the girl thinks because I'm aligned with the process.

The process says, "If girl no like me, NEXT".

[Uhondo]

Quote:

I simply DGAF. I'll go alpha when I want to or go passive when I want to. I don't care about what the girl thinks because I'm aligned with the process.

That's it right there. Being "passive" can not not be an act; you simply just don't care.

It rattles a lot of women since they are so used to guys all up in their grill.

The caveat is this:

The moment they dig deeper, and they will, you better have a lot inner game if you want them around for any extended period of time. But I suppose that is true no matter what your personality is.

[thebassist]

What is the point of pretending to be someone who you are not, especially if it's so energetically and emotionally taxing, especially if you yourself know that girls will (rightfully) back away when they realize that the image you initially presented them was completely different from your true nature? Would you not do the same if you were in their position?

The 'fake it til you make it' approach is fine to learn the basics of game, but you're not going to make much progress beyond that if you don't figure out how to develop your own style that corresponds to your own unique personality and strengths.

Quote:

I'm curious whether you have seen normal men playing a very passive, reactive sort of game and succeeding. Or whether I should focus on forcing myself to learn typical game, even if I'm miserable playing a character that is the complete opposite of my personality.

It seems to me that you have some mental issues you need to sort out, you need to take a deep look at yourself and try to figure out why you have the idea that you need to be someone other than yourself, why YOU are not good enough. If your idea of game is putting on a mask long enough to get the bang, and hoping that you won't slip and reveal your true self, then I think something is pretty damn wrong.

Some questions that you should answer for us:

Who are you? What do you look like? How would you describe your personality? What are your hobbies and interests? How do you usually go about meeting women?

[thebassist]

In fact, LINUX has stated everything that I've written in the above post much more eloquently than I could possibly state it myself.

Please reread this post as many times as it takes for his advice to really sink into your brain:

(02-06-2017 12:29 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(02-05-2017 10:20 AM)rafaeld Wrote:  

I know people say that game is a learned skill but I have been trying to figure this out for a while and I'm at a loss. I'm starting to think that this ability to say funny stuff, ramble about (what seems to me) nonsense in an entertaining way and respond to others comments and digs with little reposts really is something that you are born with or not. Like there is some level of social awareness that I am just missing. I wish it came easy to me, but it doesn't. So I am trying to figure out some way I can learn it but I'm drawing a blank.

Can anyone advise me on this? More approaches is not the answer here, I've tried that already.

Game is not a learned skill, it's an experienced skill. It's learned by experience and the ironic thing about it is that the more you learn, the more you realize all the shit you learned in the past was actually pointless to begin with. Snarky comebacks, beings funny -- is an example of this. You don't need to learn this. The guys who are successful at doing this are guys who are just living in their personality and developed their game around it and therefore it isn't a show, rather it's real.

You notice one thing about game advice, it's usually a new guy asking a question and another new guy giving advice. It's a pissing contest to see who has solved the magic puzzle. Guess what, there is no magic puzzle or fancy things you can say to get laid. Game is nothing more than following your PROCESS over and over that you know to be successful through repetition based off your personality and life experience. And your process always evolves and adapts overtime as life, goals , and other variables change. But this change is slow. It's not being funny one day and serious the next. Everyone has a different process and would be completely stupid to follow someone else's. This is what's so disturbing about seeing these PUA on youtube and the 50,000 game books out there, you got ugly guys who looked like they haven't showered, shit, or shaved in a year walking around pretending to be models, you got models walking around trying to act like comedians, and you guys running around in clubs acting like apes trying to see who can beat their chest the hardest because the internet told them it was "alpha."

Game is nothing more than this:
1. Show up as man who isn't putting on some sort of show; be masculine and confident.
2. Communicate though your process that you like the girl (direct, indirect, funny, serious, eye contact, touch, shit you could read her a poem if you want, doesn't matter)
3. Invite her to make a memory with you.
4. Repeat

Attraction and confidence will always be the hidden variables. The rest is just noise.

The problem isn't guys don't know game, it's that they never show up and tell a woman what they want, and when they do show up, they are putting on a show trying to be someone else because they think their real-self sucks and all these books taught them some bullshit. If you're talking to a woman, wondering what to say next , you've already said too much.

Develop game around your personality -- funny, serious, intense, carefree -- doesn't matter. Just make sure you show up. It all works. I've seen it work through many years and years of doing this. None is better than the other. And remember, men are on earth to be self-reliant and women are here to establish social relationships. Never forget that when you're trying to be the social butterfly at a club.

From thread-61075.html

[thebassist]

I just read through your posts and found this as well:

Quote:

I'm an average, 5 sort of guy with a typical body. 27 year old, black, 5' 9'.

Also from this from your post in this thread:

Quote:

I'm curious whether you have seen normal men playing a very passive, reactive sort of game and succeeding.

Man the whole point of this forum is to be better than average, get far beyond normal, to be PROACTIVE about improving your circumstances.

It seems that you have been neglecting some of the fundamentals- when is the last time that you've gone to the gym? Whenever anyone says they have an 'average' body, that's a pretty bad sign, since I'm quite sure the average body in the states is pretty shit.

Working on your game is definitely important, but you have to be sure that you're maxing out (or working towards maxing out) your looks as well- it makes your interactions much easier, and gives you much more leeway to fuck up. Do yourself a favor and get yourself in the gym ASAP, any program focused around compound lifts will do the trick, there's already tons of threads everywhere on the forum. Don't know what your style is like, but in a pinch I'd say just talk to the most well-dressed dude you know and see if you can get some critique.

Also make sure to check in with the other brotha's on the forum for some more tailored game advice:

thread-44508-page-238.html

When it comes to online dating in the States, the consensus in the thread above seems to be that the rate of return on online dating in the states is not worth it as a brotha. Start hanging out there more often, spend some time scrolling through the pages in that thread (lots of gold in there to find), and try to get some advice/critique on your game.

[april6e]

(07-07-2017 04:08 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

What is the point of pretending to be someone who you are not, especially if it's so energetically and emotionally taxing, especially if you yourself know that girls will (rightfully) back away when they realize that the image you initially presented them was completely different from your true nature? Would you not do the same if you were in their position?

Some questions that you should answer for us:

Who are you? What do you look like? How would you describe your personality? What are your hobbies and interests? How do you usually go about meeting women?

The point is my natural personality repels women. The only time I get anywhere with women is when I play the "masculine, alpha" character which is the opposite of who I am at the core. I was hoping this thread would stay on topic as the only thing I'm curious about is whether you guys have ever seen a passive man succeeding without "golden traits". If not, fine, I'm a man who can suck it up, force myself to go out there and practice constantly until I can fake being masculine so I can have sex.

I get what you are saying though. I'll get the stuff involving working out, going out more and such handled. But I'm more interested in whether men out there using completely reactive game successfully exists or whether I'm asking for something that cannot be done. It would be important to know whether I should be practicing routines or not (if passiveness isn't viable, then that's my only road if I want to succeed).

[heavy]

april6e, 8 of 20 posts are your own threads started.

Why don't you participate in more threads, rather than starting a bunch of your own?

Threads started:
Giant Intimacy Problem
Have a meet up tomorrow, no place to pull.
How do you "pipeline" a country before you visit?
The ideal location to locate oneself when moving to the city?
I've been out of the loop. What are the main online dating tools women are using?
I'm having very poor results on Tinder.
Newbie in Sweden/Finland 09/14
Is it possible to attract women by acting passive?

[CleanSlate]

Why do you think alpha and masculinity are opposite from your core being?

How do you define each?

I used to think to be alpha is to be loud-mouthed and brash with everyone, and boy was I wrong.

In fact, I hardly talk that much in real life. I'm a quiet guy. Yet quite a few girls are drawn to me, and I don't have to change anything about my behavior to keep it that way.

I think you need to internally redefine what it means to be alpha and masculine. Actually -- forget the word "alpha". Just focus on masculinity. The rest should take care of itself.

[Repo]

"I've always been the "support" type. The guy who makes the perfect pass that leads to the hero scoring the game winning goal. "

What does this even mean in regards to interactions with women?

[Vill@in]

(07-07-2017 12:28 AM)april6e Wrote:  

I've always been the "support" type. The guy who makes the perfect pass that leads to the hero scoring the game winning goal. Men, at least in my opinion, make the cards they have in their hand work, despite what the world claims works or doesn't work. But even I am not silly enough to waste my entire life attempting something that will never work.

You need to work on making yourself the hero.

Don't take this the wrong way OP, but you need to work on your confidence. Like thebassist said, your first stop should be the gym.

You said you're "not that type of guy" but I beg to differ. The whole point of this forum is to better yourself as a man and I think deep down inside that's exactly what you want to do but you're unsure on how to do exactly that. So you're trying to get reassurance that you can get the rewards of improvement without putting in the actual work.

Are you content to live life always being the guy who passes the ball to the man making the game winning shot? Why not BE the guy making the game winning shot? It's YOUR life, after all.

"Fake it until you Make it" if you have to. You WILL change over time. You WILL fail along the way. But the idea is to get up and try again. And again. You won't see results overnight but results (and rewards) will eventually happen.

I have faith in you, man. Start your journey.

[H1N1]

(07-07-2017 07:49 AM)april6e Wrote:  

(07-07-2017 04:08 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

What is the point of pretending to be someone who you are not, especially if it's so energetically and emotionally taxing, especially if you yourself know that girls will (rightfully) back away when they realize that the image you initially presented them was completely different from your true nature? Would you not do the same if you were in their position?

Some questions that you should answer for us:

Who are you? What do you look like? How would you describe your personality? What are your hobbies and interests? How do you usually go about meeting women?

The point is my natural personality repels women. The only time I get anywhere with women is when I play the "masculine, alpha" character which is the opposite of who I am at the core. I was hoping this thread would stay on topic as the only thing I'm curious about is whether you guys have ever seen a passive man succeeding without "golden traits". If not, fine, I'm a man who can suck it up, force myself to go out there and practice constantly until I can fake being masculine so I can have sex.

I get what you are saying though. I'll get the stuff involving working out, going out more and such handled. But I'm more interested in whether men out there using completely reactive game successfully exists or whether I'm asking for something that cannot be done. It would be important to know whether I should be practicing routines or not (if passiveness isn't viable, then that's my only road if I want to succeed).

You should read this thread, and the book mentioned in it. You may find that if you can action it it helps you improve your life. thread-28873.html

Your first statement: 'The point is my natural personality repels women' is very negative, and begets the kind of failure you're experiencing. It may be true that you are more or less attractive to women in your current form, but that is not the same as saying it must always be so, or be so in every single case.

This sort of approach seems to run through your posts. It's important to recognise that there is a great deal that you can do to improve your success rates, though you may never be a Casanova, and that doing so may significantly increase your happiness and overall quality of life.

I'm of the opinion that doing stuff for women's approval is extremely 'beta', and should be avoided at all costs. However, the things suggested here - training your body, reading, travelling, being more social - these will all improve your life tremendously if you do them for yourself. It is a fact, but incidental, that in the process you are likely to experience more success with women. In turn, you may lose some of the sense that you are repellent to women - though again this would be incidental to the overall improvement in quality of life.

There is never any excuse for choosing passivity simply because it's the easy option. If you want to experience any meaningful success with anything, you need to put in the hard yards, for longer than you'd like at far greater expense (perhaps emotionally rather than financial) than you might otherwise like.

[Stallion]

You are not "that type of guy". Then become that kind of guy.

"Just be yourself" is bullshit. If "yourself" is not getting the kind of results you want, you should improve until you become a new "yourself". This is not changing who you are, it's becoming a stronger version of yourself.



Relevant, from King Elliott Himself:

BTW: I'm also the mysterious introvert passive kind of guy, so I get where you are coming from. Getting out of your comfort zone and become the party clown can be lot's of fun, once you get comfortable with it.

[chitown72]

(07-07-2017 02:18 AM)dknightbro Wrote:  

I was like this initially coming up in the game.

It was hard work trying to maintain that "alpha" character.

Now I'm more experienced, I simply DGAF. I'll go alpha when I want to or go passive when I want to. I don't care about what the girl thinks because I'm aligned with the process.

The process says, "If girl no like me, NEXT".

This

Sometimes I make the attempt to be on top of my game only until I close then I simply go into DGAF mode all the time. Generally women still stick with me after this phase.

I've even discussed with some girls about the whole alpha/beta and eventually had them give me feedback on me. Some have said that I only acted Alpha in the first couple dates(until the lay), then I went right into beta mode. But still they didn't mind and stuck around because I go in and out depending on circumstances and how I strongly feel about different situations. Once again DGAF mode...

[DimeBait]

(07-07-2017 03:28 AM)Uhondo Wrote:  

Quote:

I simply DGAF. I'll go alpha when I want to or go passive when I want to. I don't care about what the girl thinks because I'm aligned with the process.

That's it right there. Being "passive" can not not be an act; you simply just don't care.

It rattles a lot of women since they are so used to guys all up in their grill.

The caveat is this:

The moment they dig deeper, and they will, you better have a lot inner game if you want them around for any extended period of time. But I suppose that is true no matter what your personality is.

It's definitely a balance. You have to withhold attention

[crdr]

^
Caveat.

To treat chicks like crap. Most of the time they have to be a socially valuable chick to prey on insecurities.
Attractive Chicks have Zero Confidence
Average/Fugly Chicks have Solid Confidence.

Passive, Nice Guy, Pussy Game gets you ABSOLUTELY NO WHERE IN LIFE. Let alone quality sex.

PS: Tom Leykis is great fundamentals but seduction has much more nuances and subtleties than the "Silver Bullet" he preaches for advertising revenue.

[Remington]

(07-07-2017 08:00 AM)heavy Wrote:  

april6e, 8 of 20 posts are your own threads started.

Why don't you participate in more threads, rather than starting a bunch of your own?

Threads started:
Giant Intimacy Problem
Have a meet up tomorrow, no place to pull.
How do you "pipeline" a country before you visit?
The ideal location to locate oneself when moving to the city?
I've been out of the loop. What are the main online dating tools women are using?
I'm having very poor results on Tinder.
Newbie in Sweden/Finland 09/14
Is it possible to attract women by acting passive?

All questions he asked in his created threads could have been answered if he utilized the search function and did some reading. He would learn much more looking in other threads that are dozens, some hundreds of pages long, with contributions by well established members.

[april6e]

(07-07-2017 08:00 AM)heavy Wrote:  

april6e, 8 of 20 posts are your own threads started.
Why don't you participate in more threads, rather than starting a bunch of your own?

I'm confused. As a beginner, what would I have to share? If there is some thread like "Where are you from?", I could answer it but that has nothing to do with improving my game. I could write a novel on the hundreds of times I've been rejected but I doubt that would be of use to anyone.

Call me out if I'm out of line, but all the threads I'm making are asking legitimate questions. It's not like I'm spamming the forum whining. I'm asking specific questions whose answers would not only benefit me but any other newbie who is in the same situation. You seem to be implying that you are bothered by me asking game questions on a game forum.

Thanks to everyone else who posted, I saw your stuff.

[bgbusiness]

Yeah, sure you can attract girls by being passive.

You can have like fucking amazing social media and girls will flock to you if you got money and you are just flaunting/flexing your status deep down their throat.

Just fucking have amazing social media.

Also if you are doing social circle game, being passive can turn out to be being mysterious and you can isolate and just escalate later with them.If anything you can come off aloof, which is high value, non-needy if you do it the "right away of being passive."

[Kid Twist]

The confusion arises because we come from a highly individualistic, "efficiency" based culture. One that is quite egalitarian in its social projections as well. Because of these factors, which all clash at some point but can also self-reinforce depending on the strategy, people want to believe that a given approach can work and be efficiently repeatable, like some scientific method in which an experiment is proven to be reliable by reproducibility over many environments and time frames, past/present/future.

The problem and the confusion is then seen near immediately because of the cultural magic pill concept (which you see so many others want in medicine for cures, weight loss, strength, or any other quality that is desired) and trap that people fall into because until you find out the hard way and waste time and money on the crap magic bullet, you don't understand that what LINUX called experience is another synonym for hard work.

In my view, the "hard work" or experience is being comfortable with what you are in the moment or working on being something different so you can be better in that eventual moment. In other people's words, it's congruence. Congruence realizes that there are natural factors that will tend to make girls unattracted to you for whatever reason, there are natural and temporal factors that will make them unattracted (cycles, bad days, etc) as well, and also social factors. These factors cannot be easily changed. Some will NEVER be changed. Some people will never like you. The answer to that is that there are some things that must be understood (what we call "red pill", these the aforementioned examples) precisely in order to BE congruent.

Congruence will become confidence and lead to attraction. All the time? Of course not. But how do you weed out the time wasters, wishy washy broads, and borderline interested? You show up, as Linux says, and be direct with what your purpose is --- or as he says it --- "what you want."

Know what else? After enough experience you'll realize that the "feminine ideal" you held for so long ain't so ideal. OF course, be healthy, but be what you want, do what you want, take her in the direction you want --- and let the rest fall by the wayside.

Why would you wanna be with someone who doesn't want to move in the same direction you are?

[RatInTheWoods]

My good looking wingman has "Passive game" ie he just goes in, stands at the bar, orders a drink and waits for them to come and approach him.

Hes a 9, and approach they do.

Its passive.

The rest of us, I don't think being passive is going to work....

[Repo]

If being passive worked, then you would have had girls before you even knew what game was and never would have needed to be on here in the first place. . .

[HungJohnson69]

Being passive worked for me to some extent 20 years ago when I was young and cute.

Also a while ago in a bar a girl came to compliment my cowboy hat, and we ended up in a hotel room the same night.

So I guess being passive can work, if you got the looks (or interesting accessories).

And of course in online dating, a girl can be the one initiating the interaction, this is not uncommon.