[Lermontov]

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to comment and share their opinion regarding my situation. I read everything carefully and will re-read to reflect on everything with an open mind. My post was pretty long. It is obviously difficult to summarize briefly and accurately four and half year of relationship and its dynamics. The fact that my native language isn't english also complicates the writing. I initially included some background information in my original post to help people assess the current situation in a more enlighted way but deleted it when I saw how long the post was. Since the story elicits interest judging from the replies and personal messages, I will post the paragraph back below. Later tonight I will post an update and answer some interrogations from the posters.

Background information: 30 year old, black (1/4 white, so I look a little bit mixed), I lift, 6'2, 195 pounds, broad shoulders, low body fat percentage, prestigious but demanding career. I'm lucky because I'm good-looking and have it relatively easy with women (at least initially to get sex quickly... LTR being another different ballgame...) . I had my first LTMR from 20 to 23 y.o with an attractive young white french-canadian woman of my age, a college student from a good family (I guess we could rate her a 7). We never lived together. The sex was super great. We both had a strong libido. She never denied sex and often initiated. She was experienced and could achieve vaginal orgasms regularly but not clitoridal ones. She didn't want me to perform oral sex on her and even if I wanted to try at least once, she never let me, go figure... she said that it turned her off... She only liked actual sex and fingering. Rough sex, limited foreplay, a lot of doggy style. She was a great dirty talker. I was very dominant with her and she loved it. A dream... Especially when I think about it now... What a huge difference with my current girlfriend on the sexual level... She also was into rape fantasies. I had to buy a durag, phat farm baggy jeans and get a fake gold necklace because she had a ''raped by a black thug fantasy'' and we would create scenarios... During the last year of our relationship, the poor girl developed a neurological disease and we decided to end the relationship... Quickly after the first relationship, from 23 to 24 y.o, for one year, I dated a 19 y.o tall french-canadian blond of astonishing beauty (a 9). I'll always remember how I felt the first time she was nude infront of me... her body was so hot... The sex was okay at best even though she had a couple of relationships before... Completely at the opposite of my first girlfriend, she could achieved clitoridal orgasm easily from oral sex and digital stimulation, but not vaginal ones. She really adored oral sex in contrast to my first girlfriend. She dumped after one year of dating and started to go out with a professional athlete. She denied sex only once, a few weeks before leaving me. She blew up and said that she never really enjoyed vaginal penetration, that she felt nothing, couldn't have vaginal orgasms, was tired of me always wanting sex like ''an animal'', etc. She didn't want do to it doggy-style because she felt like an ''animal''. I could only managed to get her do it a couple of times during a year. After that, for about one year and a half, I had my fair share of ONS, experienced simultaneous short term dating and was having fun. Those were mainly from cold approach night-game and social circle/university. This is the moment I realize I was good-looking and was lucky to have it easy, because strangely up to 25 y.o I didn't really get that. While I was really enjoying all that, I prefer long-term relationships so I was always ultimately looking for an amazing and beautiful woman during that period. I learned, to my own surprise, that women can be much more promiscuous than what I thought growing up. It struck me how some small women would go have sex quickly with some random black guy they'd just met a university party, a bar or nightclub. I also realized how the sexuality of a woman could vary widely. Whereas I encountered a few (very few) women who could for example squirt like fountains during vaginal orgasm after 3 minutes of sexual intercourse while screaming their lungs out, others, at the opposite extreme, would seem to derive minimal physical pleasure from the actual sex. Others would seem to respond more from scenarios, speech, than physical stimulation. Before entering my current relationship, my personal view on masculine sexual ability was that, while he must take charge, dominate and lead, a great lover wanting to please his partner must nonetheless be attentive to her preferences since their response to different ways of having sex vary so greatly.


I started to read a bit on the manosphere and red-pill stuff recently, but I'm still not well-versed in that.

Update to come later.

[Latan]

Dude, please use your "Enter" key.
I tried to read, then got lost mid way.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(05-08-2017 04:18 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

...
From the sounds of it the girls has significant redeeming qualities and worth trying to salvage. The fact that she requires the dirty talk is telling me she's begging to be more sexual...he's just not found her "whore button" yet. But its probably there

Of course if it's an irredeemable situation then by all means they should both move on.

Either way OP would benefit from learning how to sexually "awaken" her: lest he fall into this dynamic again on the next one too

I suppose you can just boil it all down since there's really no reason to complicate it.

OP can roughly pursue sex as and how he chooses to take it and if she declines then the relationship is unto a dead man walking. You cannot rehabilitate a princess unless she relinquishes her "wymins rights" to choose when, where and how she gets fucked. And honestly, the hell with trying to pull some sort of intricate psychological fix, because that's never going to work.

If she concedes to being fucked when, where and how OP wants to fuck her then OP has to decide whether he can accept that she might always be nothing more than an extremely life-like sex toy.

And that's basically what it all comes down to.

Personally I think this girl is begging to be manhandled. She's very "prim and proper" yet she's still pushing OP to "romance" her. Yet if you'd ever flipped through a romance novel you'd know that the pirate captain or the cavalry commander or the plantation slave is never gently working the female lead towards orgasm over the course of a 30 minute fingering session. God only knows what she'd be asking if she could state her heart's desire without her ingrained social taboos stopping her.

Go for it, OP. You've got experience in dominance. Be firm, but gentle, but FIRM. She has to feel safely unsafe if that makes any sense.

[Lermontov]

UPDATE

- Yesterday, after I broke up with her, my girlfriend cried a lot, there was a lot of drama during the morning and the afternoon. She said that she took me for granted when we moved together (after 1 year and a half) and that she was sorry. She told me that she would make great efforts to work on our sexlife and stop denying me.

- I'm on an emotional roller coaster. I was supposed to leave the appartment temporarily but decided to put everything on hold and to reflect on everything.

- She made a good dinner and while eating the conversation went well. We were able to disconnect and talked about other stuff. During the evening (yesterday), we had sex. I didn't want to initiate because of the resentment but I forced myself to try it. Short foreplay, limited erotic talk from my part. It went well. It was the first time since two weeks. I don't watch porn and don't fap. I hate to fucking fap. This of course make all the situation and the resentment worse.

- This morning she said again that she'll strive to work her sexuality but also hoped that I'll become more romantic when we have sex.

- She has already been making some kinds of effort to work on our sexlife for about two months when I threatened to break up.

- My biggest problem right now is the resentment that slowly and insidiously accumulated. Now I look at her and in my head I can't help but think about all those weekends where I wanted to have sex more than 1 time but couldn't. I think about all those times where I had blatant free sex opportunities with attractive women hitting on me in different situations over the last 4 years and a half. I always said no and remained faithful, while knowing that I'd hardly get laid one time over the week-end. I am angry. I am frustrated against the society for always pushing men to be faithful. I'm pissed off.

- Her sex therapist gave her masturbation exercises (clitoridal). The sex therapist maintains that it's not possible for me to give her an orgasm if my girlfriend cannot have a clitoridal one by herself. I really tried a lot over the years. My girlfriend said she reached a new high recently by masturbating but she stopped and was affraid with what could come up. She started reading erotic stories and said to me that she get immensely lubrificated and excited from reading them, much more than physical touching.

At the beginning of the relationship, I tried dominant sex like I was used with my first LTR girlfriend and virtually all my ONS/short term relationships. With my current girlfriend, I can get dominant, but she needs significant foreplay and erotic talking that will transition to dirty talk later. Then after starting gentle sex, it's possible to transition to very rough sex and dirty talk. I can get to see her inner whore. When it happens, those are great sex sessions. With appropriate gradual talking she will get very excited. She'll say: "Grab by ass, slap it! I want you to control my ass. Make me yours.". She'll even moan. The problem is that:

1- 50% of the time, she will loose focus at some point during the sexual act and ruin everything. She just disconnects. This happens just randomly and it's inconstant, illogical. There has been an improvement since I took her virginity but modest.

2. It's difficult to get sex more than 2 times a week and it's depressing. I described a little why and how I'm blocked by her like that but getting into the details would be too long and I can assure you that the only way to really have that amount of sex corresponding to my natural drive would be to commit rape and of course I will never do that. Living with that attractive woman is hell.

I actually don't really care if it needs 15-20 minutes of gentle foreplay to have decent sex, which culminate into passionate sex. The main problem is frequency.

Someone asked if she gets drunk sometimes. She drinks sometimes but she never got drunk in her life.

Tonight she cooked a nice meal and the discussion went really well during dinner. After that, since it was a long time that I did try some "gorilla/caveman sex" with no foreplay as Leonard D suggested, I said to myself why not give it a shot, but I knew what was coming.

While she was washing the dishes, I came in the kitchen with the lube bottle and put it on the counter. I grabed her ass and bit her neck. She smiled and blushed. I pulled her pants down and she asked what I was doing. I said ''I will fuck you.''. She replied : ''What? Here? Now? I'm not excited, we need to begin more slowly if you want to do it.'' in a gentle voice. I lubed my cock while saying how her hot body is turning me on and exciting me, how she is sexy.'' Without any resistance from her part, I proceeded to penetrate her slowly from behind while holding her firmly and bitting her neck. She said that it was too fast for her. I continued while being attentive to her body language and facial expression. She said that she didn't like that position. I continued slowly. Suddenly her body language turned negative and I could see fear on her face and she said ''Please stop.'' At that point I immediately pulled out and stopped. I thought of my first girlfriend (a 7), who in this situation would have screamed: ''Fuck me harder.'' My girlfriend than suggested to continue on the couch. We continued on the couch and I could feel that she was moderately into it...

Of course, two days of sex in a row like that is in a context of the fear of the relationship possibly ending...

[Leonard D Neubache]

Hmm. Interesting case study and cheers to OP for putting it out there.

The phrase "I want you to be more romantic" concerns me greatly. It sounds as if she's trying to become a character in her book and she expects you to play your role according to her predetermined wants and needs, which is frankly ridiculous. The princess vibe is strong with this one.

It sounds like she wants to cling to some sort of power in the sexual relationship. Keep in mind, she froze at the location, not the sex, so that's a win. Next time you go gorilla on her and she resists you can tell her "choose a spot" then shuffle her away from whatever room she didn't want to have sex in. Borderline chase her out of the room and hunt her down to her "safe place".

You have plenty of time to see how this plays out. No need to cut and run right this second. You've changed your tack and gotten a result. Get a sense of how to tune that approach for better results and go back at it.

Good stuff, OP.

[Jean Valjean]

(05-08-2017 10:24 PM)Lermontov Wrote:  

- My biggest problem right now is the resentment that slowly and insidiously accumulated. Now I look at her and in my head I can't help but think about all those weekends where I wanted to have sex more than 1 time but couldn't. I think about all those times where I had blatant free sex opportunities with attractive women hitting on me in different situations over the last 4 years and a half. I always said no and remained faithful, while knowing that I'd hardly get laid one time over the week-end. I am angry. I am frustrated against the society for always pushing men to be faithful. I'm pissed off.

Welcome to the anger phase, OP! It took me about three years to get through that part of the unplugging process. Unfortunately, the anger phase tends to be prolonged if your situation is such that you're continuing to have to deal with the unpleasant consequences of decisions made while you were blue pill, because it just keeps stirring up fresh resentment.

[RatInTheWoods]

Leonard, I get it that some women like a bit of rough and the man taking the lead etc.
But also some )most?) women do like all that slow, talk and foreplay stuff as well. Millions of internet and print pages complaining about how men rush to penetration etc. Some women are like that, I'd say the OP is one. Op has been good enough to experiment for us, even though his gal has a gun to her head relationship wise, she is still complaining and non-compliant sexually.

I just don't think its ever going to get better OP.

You really need to decide if she is worth the shit sex.

Desire can not be negotiated, counselled or dreaded long term in a LTR. Even if you could, its just too much effort compared to a trade in model.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^I agree, which is why I'm suggesting a "go hard or go home" approach.

This way OP can get a good return on his time investment. If he's been with her for years then a few weeks of cave-man game culminating in a breakthrough or a breakup is a small time investment with a potentially large payoff.

But I agree that if there's no real breakthrough in short order and OP gets the sense that he'll soon be back to bread-and-water fucking then he should eject and find a unicorn with a functioning pussy. Like I said before. A "no-touchey" smoke show wandering around your house is worse than being alone with a tube of lotion and a box of tissues.

[Rawmeo]

I think she is starting to realize that you have options and that she needs to follow your frame if she wants things to continue.

Kudos for that - according your update, I think you should give her another chance, she seems determined to make things work.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Because I'm a shameless post-whore I'm going to provide a personal experience that might add a dimension to OP's thoughts on the matter.

In my late teens I got into an LTR with a girl who was top ranked for looks in my social circle (a 7 at best but we weren't exactly ballers). We were on and off for several years and it was rocky largely because for her sex was literally painful. For some reason her pelvic floor contracted with extreme strength during sex (we're talking "cock ring, impossible to cum inside her" strong) and it would literally have her in tears. A real god-damned downer for a guy who's young, dumb and full of cum. But other than a few breaks in the relationship I stuck with her for many many months and had similar problems to OP. She wasn't just resistant to vaginal sex. She was resistant to giving head or taking it in the ass or even giving me a hand job. And it dawned on me eventually that if this chick really gave a serious fuck about pleasing me then she'd be draining my balls by any means possible and apologising that she was incapable of doing things in a more biologically traditional manner. The truth was that she was just a lazy bitch for whom I was an emotional crutch, and anything even barely outside of her sexual safe space was just too much effort for her to put in.

My point is that this is what OP has to determine as quickly as possible. Is this woman simply an ice queen or does she genuinely want to change? See, this girl I was with would often make small gestures towards change when she got the hint that I was about to bail. Some shitty head here. A titty-fuck there. But it would all be forgotten as soon as the dread of me leaving subsided. It would be back to "cry a little about my sexual issues and hope that he goes to sleep and stops bothering me".

So my main concern here is "okay, OP's girl doesn't enjoy sex, but why is she demonstrating a complete lack of interest in seeing to his needs as a man?"

God forbid I lost all feeling in my dick. I would still bang my wife on the reg because not only would I want to make sure she didn't wander off to some other guy, but because I enjoy making her go wild. Likewise I know that if the roles were reversed she would do the same for me.

So a big part of the puzzle is figuring out why this girl thinks it's OK to leave her man with blue balls just because she herself has a limited sex drive.

I think that at an absolute minimum this girl needs to be made to understand that it's her job to get OP off once a day, and that she can do that however she wants but that OP getting his rocks off is not just a "whenever she feels like it" job. It's a "whether she enjoys it or not" job.

If she can't meet you that far then she's not a keeper.

[Ringo]

(05-08-2017 11:58 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Desire can not be negotiated, counselled or dreaded long term in a LTR. Even if you could, its just too much effort compared to a trade in model.

Trust and resentment issues are also a way one road with no going back.

OP admits to resenting his girl. This is a goner. He's just trying to rationalize discarding a good prospect because of "small" defect.

I've said it before, but I'm a big believer in "small" things cueing to much, much bigger things. Like Leonard says:

(05-09-2017 01:44 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

So my main concern here is "okay, OP's girl doesn't enjoy sex, but why is she demonstrating a complete lack of interest in seeing to his needs as a man?"

There is a deep seeded issue there. I doubt it can be fixed. It reminds me of the fat simp in this thread who thought his girl was overspending but hoped it would be a phase and would get better after they were married. It won't.

And even she complies to fucking you (or to phrase more accurately, to allow you to fuck her), is that the type of sex life you want to have?

I want a girlfriend who is HUNGRY for my dick, not one that looks at with disgust, even if she does have sex with me.

On the long term, she's not going to feel more desire, and your resentment will only grow.

It's sad and it's a waste but there's no long game here, unless you are happy with one bang session a week (some men are).

It's not what you want to hear because you've typed to much trying to rationalize your gut feeling, but as much as you like this girl you'd probably be better off breaking up.

Or cheating. A lot.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

(05-07-2017 11:45 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  

I highly recommend Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life. If you've got the got the cash, I suggest coaching. Athol Kay.com . I used his services in the past and got quite good results.

I don't normally plug Athol so hard here, but you've got a tough situation that actually is quite complex. It is more than what I think this forum can help fix.

You have two problems:

1. You. I see a guy who and needs deep red pill training. This can't be done overnight or through a forum. Dumping her may or may not have been a good move.

2. Her. If she wants you back, tell her she needs to prove it to you. But this path is treacherous and difficult to do right. Which is why I highly highly recommend coaching with Athol. He is an expert.

I'd like to cosign this. I found Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life 2011 to really lay out the red pill. His explanation of the body agenda and the female hamster, and discussion of recognizing shit tests will really open your eyes to the red pill.

He specifically focuses on using the red pill to save good marriages being ruined by the blue pill. If your wife is unwilling to return to a healthy relationship, he prepares you for moving on without her.

The advice in this thread is first rate. If she won't fuck you every way possible in return for your fidelity, she doesn't deserve your fidelity. Athol's plan includes a step to make an ultimatum, then leave, if necessary. Decide for yourself how many months or years you're willing to wait before leaving her for lack of sex, and when you have your shit together, let her know the clock is ticking, and what you expect. You have to be really willing to leave her to induce dread.

The thing is, the red pill can enable you to be fully dominant and sexy in her eyes. It is possible, with a decent woman, that you can win back her heart by being the kind of dominant man women are aroused by. Note that word aroused. That is the key to sex, and real, heart felt love. You must recognize what arouses women, and do those things, with your wife, and with a replacement if necessary.

[Lermontov]

Update.

I ordered Athol Kay's The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 .

Some unexpected and very interesting things happened today.

In the subway on my way back from work I decided that I will not tolerate sexual rejection anymore. I will go for what I want. If my current girlfriend rejects sexually me one more time, I will break up definitely with her and find a unicorn who enjoys sex while getting laid with different women during that process. I will fight the resentment and approach my girlfriend anyway, quickly getting a boner anyway from seeing her hot body.

I know that to enjoy the possibility of good and rough sex in the position of my choice with her, I'll have to talk and tell erotic stories so she can lubricate. I don't care about that, I will do it if leads to sex where I lead and enjoy it.

When I arrived home, she was there and I changed clothes from work while we talk. I then started to kiss her neck and undress her. She then proceeded to say negative remarks and behave badly:

1- ''I'd prefer if we could just cuddle and hug eachother than have sex.''
I ignored that and stayed focus. I continued to touch her, bite and kiss her neck, and undress her. I started the erotic talk.

2- ''I don't want to have sex because I'm still a little sore from yesterday.'' Annoying pouting face.

I ignored that and continued as if nothing happened.

3- She pushes me, arches her back, rolls her head and her eyes backwards in despair. All that body language usually turns me off at that point and would turn off many.

I stayed focused and continued to get what I want.

With the erotic talking and the touching, she started to be into it. She asked me to describe in details what I was going to do to her. I then started my monologue and after I proceeded to penetrate her. She was fully wet and wide open. A bit of patience and I knew that I could transition soon to fully dominant and rough sex. Well, she didn't disconnect this time like she often does and it ended up to be one of those great satisfying sex sessions that are usually too rare. Those who helped me stay aboard and optimistic through the years. During the sex and the dirty talk, I told her to repeat after me and say ''I'm so glad and thankful that you are penetrating deeply right now with your cock''. She repeated it a couple of times and was really into it.

After the sex, she told me that it was unusual that I would continue despite what she said and the way she was acting, her negative body language and pouting. She said that I looked very determined and unphazed, and that it turned her on. She said (in french): ''Tu étais comme un grand conquérant.'' (You were like a great conqueror.) This is all illogical and unusual. I realize that I may have made mistakes and fallacious assumptions in the relationship early-on, probably related to the ''blue pill'' misconceptions (I'm still a newbie in that blue pill/red pill stuff, especially related to behavior during long-term relationships).

She made dinner and the conversation during it went well. She was all smile and talking about interesting stuff.

It's very soon, only day 3 post-crisis/break up attempt, but the relationship might be salvageable... I think we never had sex three days in a row.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Lermontov getting home from work every damn day.

[AneroidOcean]

I go back and forth between this being a troll account or real with a semi-serious case of sperg.

* Very strange that you put the bottle of lube down on the counter. So strange. Very spergy. A much better approach would be to come up behind her, smell her hair, exhale on her neck, grab her waist, turn her around and kiss her deeply. Pick her up, take her to the bedroom. I've yet to have a girl do anything worse than question where we're going and they never want to leave when they get there.

This is what she means by romance. She wants you to overwhelm her mind and body. The romance novels are women's porn because a woman's largest sex organ is her mind. If you can get in her mind, you're getting in her pants, period.

It may seem illogical to you (and maybe it is), but a woman ultimately wants a man that is going to be aggressive and take her and also wants to completely desire you and want to do nothing but succumb to you. She wants to chase after you, she wants YOU to be the prize, not her.

You're willing to do some fantasy sexy talk in order to get her wet, but you're into it to please her. That's not the right viewpoint. The viewpoint should be that you're going to make her think of NOTHING else but wanting to fuck you.

It's hard to explain, but if she really reacted that way when you pushed through her rolling her eyes and all that shit, it just comes down to the following:

They want a manly man, rough sometimes, aggressive sometimes, but capable of being nice.

Nice guys finish last. They do not want a doormat. They don't want someone who puts them on a pedestal, they do not want someone who is willing to do everything for them, etc...

Be that guy or you'll be bitter or without girls, or both.

[Lermontov]

I don't get what's wrong with having some lube near you in a subtle manner just in case, when you plan to have sex in another place than the bedroom to spice things up and make it unusual. We have to use lube from time to time to make her more comfortable. I actually did something pretty much like what you said but we had sex standing in the kitchen from behind instead of the bedroom.

Anyway thanks for having written your opinion and for you diagnosis of asperger syndrome.

[PapayaTapper]

(05-09-2017 08:23 PM)Lermontov Wrote:  

Update.
...
This is all illogical and unusual. I realize that I may have made mistakes and fallacious assumptions in the relationship early-on, probably related to the ''blue pill'' misconceptions (I'm still a newbie in that blue pill/red pill stuff, especially related to behavior during long-term relationships).

She made dinner and the conversation during it went well. She was all smile and talking about interesting stuff.

It's very soon, only day 3 post-crisis/break up attempt, but the relationship might be salvageable... I think we never had sex three days in a row.

Different actions beget different results...

[Latan]

Nice, OP.
You saw that puting YOUR desire first, aroused her.

Next time, don't do anything to please her : No pre-sex talk.
That's not something you enjoy, you only do it to please her.
She only says she needs it, in order to test you : are you a blue pill weak wuss, or a sexy caveman who'll ravage her inside out?

Be the caveman, even if she'll never admit it, that's what REALLY makes her wet.

[RatInTheWoods]

Fuck! Leonard 2 , Rattie 1

GO OP

[Rawmeo]

Well, that's good news. You should never tolerate sexual rejection from someone who are in a relationship with.

[kaotic]

This has been a great read up on how to guide your woman into doing what you want, sticking with your guns, and how to connect sexually with a woman.

[Lermontov]

If I go caveman with absolutely NO TALKING whatsoever, I will not enjoy myself as much. Why? Because my girlfriend will not be into it at all compared with the talking and this will suck for me. She will not make any noise, she will be tense, stiff, she will pout, she will make remarks that turn you off cold, she will remained DRY as fuck (hence the occasional utilization of lube), she will whine for me to stop, etc.

With that woman = no talk = no comfort, no arousal = bad sex for me. If you read one of my last posts here on the caveman sex standing from behind with minimal talking in the kitchen the other day, you will realize what I mean. This caveman sex suggested by Leonard D was done on purpose with an open mind and it just reminded me what I knew and experimented multiple times before letting it go. And also seeing a girl miserable during gorilla/caveman sex isn't a turn on for me. And yes AneroidOcean (who diagnosed me with an autism spectrum disorder based on his thorough analysis of my writings, story and lube utilization pattern), I have to get lube sometimes if I don't want to tear her vagina with my big black cock. I happen to make love in places other than the bedroom at home sometimes and I might take the lube bottle in a subtle way beforehand not to ruin the moment.

You have to understand that I entered this relationship big on caveman/gorilla sex and less on lenghty erotic stories sex (see background information post earlier).
Believe it or not, after all those years, my current girlfriend isn't your typical white Québécoise promiscuous bar slut that I encountered and fucked many times. Yes I can do caveman sex with no talking with my girlfriend. I did it many times. This will be SHITTY sex for me. I know some will think ''ah he never did real caveman sex, he puts her on a pedestal''. Well I said what I have to say.

The more the erotic talk is articulate, creative, complex and intelligent, the more she will get really into it. I mean really into it. But this is still inconsistant and there is a ''no touchy'' atmosphere at home and the multiple shit tests and remarks that often come up when I want a lot of sex piss me off. Like one poster said, she is not ''hungry'' for my dick except after a lot of astute erotic talking. Then with appropriate talking I can do anything I want and it is much more fun and pleasurable for me. This is mutually beneficial.

One of the mistake I made that I was refering to is ignoring the multiple shit tests and multiple remarks when I approach her to have sex, but the problem and the reason why that I may have lacked persistance sometimes is that it begins to take a toll on you in the long run. She is not cock hungry.

She also has some attitude problems about pleasing her man that Leonard D pointed accurately but I personally don't think that caveman sex can fix that. She however seems to be willing to work on that in the moment.

The sex therapist seeing my girlfriend right now has 30 years of clinical experience and she says that my girlfriend is way too far on the romantic/affective spectrum of sexuality, and I already got that before. According to the therapist, she's not enough in touch with her ''genital'' side, like your promiscuous tinder slut who will Uber straight to your cock after 3 messages and enjoy being cavemaned the shit out of her with no talking before and during sex.

I thought that ratinthewoods pretty much nailed it.

(05-08-2017 11:58 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Leonard, I get it that some women like a bit of rough and the man taking the lead etc.
But also some )most?) women do like all that slow, talk and foreplay stuff as well. Millions of internet and print pages complaining about how men rush to penetration etc. Some women are like that, I'd say the OP is one. Op has been good enough to experiment for us, even though his gal has a gun to her head relationship wise, she is still complaining and non-compliant sexually.

I just don't think its ever going to get better OP.

You really need to decide if she is worth the shit sex.

Desire can not be negotiated, counselled or dreaded long term in a LTR. Even if you could, its just too much effort compared to a trade in model.

[Genghis Khan]

Quote:

You have to understand that I entered this relationship big on caveman/gorilla sex and less on lenghty erotic stories sex (see background information post earlier).

Quote:

After the sex, she told me that it was unusual that I would continue despite what she said and the way she was acting, her negative body language and pouting. She said that I looked very determined and unphazed, and that it turned her on. She said (in french): ''Tu étais comme un grand conquérant.'' (You were like a great conqueror.) This is all illogical and unusual. I realize that I may have made mistakes and fallacious assumptions in the relationship early-on, probably related to the ''blue pill'' misconceptions (I'm still a newbie in that blue pill/red pill stuff, especially related to behavior during long-term relationships).

In regards to the second quote, you sound like you were surprised she was turned on and told you you were like a great conqueror. You may have entered your relationship wanting caveman sex, but it seems you never got this type of response before. This to me sounds like you did something qualitatively differently this time that finally turned her on.

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I happen to make love in places other than the bedroom at home sometimes and I might take the lube bottle in a subtle way beforehand not to ruin the moment.

Some posters mentioned erotic novels. I would go read some, they're very illuminating - you'll note that the man never plans for sex, he just takes the woman. Another good read is "My secret garden" by Nancy Friday. A lot of the fantasies mentioned in that book have a sense of spontaneity. There's no "And he went into the bedroom and came out with the lube and condom, read the expiration date to make sure the condom wasn't expired, and then subtly placed both items on the dining room table". Next time, just go for it. Get really into it and before you're about to put in your dick, smack her ass, and speak firmly into her ear: "Don't move, I need to get something", and then get the lube. Better yet, have her situated so she can't see you when you come back. If she turns her head when you're coming back, tell her: "I told you not to move". But make it so that she doesn't know what's going on for as long as possible. The fact that she doesn't know what's going (even if it's as simple as you putting on lube while you're behind her) will arouse her.

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1- ''I'd prefer if we could just cuddle and hug eachother than have sex.''
I ignored that and stayed focus. I continued to touch her, bite and kiss her neck, and undress her. I started the erotic talk.

2- ''I don't want to have sex because I'm still a little sore from yesterday.'' Annoying pouting face.

I ignored that and continued as if nothing happened.

3- She pushes me, arches her back, rolls her head and her eyes backwards in despair. All that body language usually turns me off at that point and would turn off many.

I stayed focused and continued to get what I want.

This is actually what you did - by ignoring her, you put her in an unpredictable situation. You created a situation where she didn't have control anymore. That's what created the arousal (and that's what a lot of the erotic novels and fantasies are about - women losing control).

Emily Nagoski has a book called Come as You Are. Early on, she talks about a particular couple: they get engaged at some inn, and have wild monkey sex that night. They try to re-live the experience two years later and she's just not into it. Why? Because it's a predictable situation, she knew exactly what was going to happen. They go back home, and she's crying the next morning about how she can't get turned on. Completely new situation (her crying on the bed in the morning), dude makes a sudden move for sex and boom, they have crazy monkey sex (it was unpredictable).

Ironically, for you, be getting the lube beforehand, you actually ruin the idea of you just turning primal and having an irresistible urge to fuck the living shit out of her. By getting the lube beforehand, she knows exactly what's going to happen. It's not an unpredictable situation anymore.

[realologist]

I had a girlfriend who was like this. We didn't live together but it still very similar. Just didn't have as high of a sex drive as I did. My solution was cheating on her. We eventually ended up breaking up anyway but it wasn't because of my cheating kept under wraps.

[Leonard D Neubache]

So far so good. OP's happy with the result which is the main thing. Even if they break up later he'll be more confident in future, train women correctly from the outset of a relationship and generally be in a better position to get the outcomes he wants. Winning!

Understandable that OP doesn't want to tear her pussy up. That would be going a little too far and probably result in two steps backward for the one taken forward.

A variation would be to place the lube where she can see it and order her to grease the python. The act of her doing so is basically a submission to sex and it fulfils the logistics of the thing while retaining your dominance. It would probably be good to think about what other steps you can order her to take before you fuck. She seems to want to lose herself in some sort of fantasy rather than be "romanced" in the traditional sense (you're not bringing her chocolates and flowers before you fuck, for example). There could be a good ten to fifteen minute time frame where you specifically order her around "like a conqueror", using dominant alpha male tones.

"Go to the bedroom".
"Take off your dress".
"Leave your shoes on".
"Bend over the dresser."
"Touch yourself."

If you think you can manage it with in the confines of her "issues" then punish her for disobedience. A small wooden spoon from the kitchen across her ass will either get you thrown out of the apartment or make her as wet as monsoon season. If you reckon she'll go for it, get a legit riding crop.