[XPQ22]

(10-05-2016 04:52 AM)preppy Wrote:  

I've seen women openly post on facebook "need some help with bills this month", within minutes there are men posting telling her to message them privately.

On tinder, it's become normal to see women requesting starbucks/chipotle/help with moving. There's simply such an overabundance of men in the US.

Yeah, it's pretty disgusting, isn't it.

(10-05-2016 07:09 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Yes we do, it just comes later and doesn't hit us as hard as it does women. Just because Hugh Hefner made it doesnt mean all of us will. Im 25 and already I can no longer do the things I did at 18.

Gosh, wait until you're pushing 40. Mentally I don't feel particularly old, but paraphrasing some comedian talking about aging "I just feel like a 25 year old who's got something wrong with him."

But I can already feel the "male wall" approaching, even though I'm hoping to stave off the worst of it a little while longer. I know some guys here criticize me for being over-reliant on dating apps for pulling girls, but frankly if I had to rely on cold approaches in the real world to get laid I'm sure I'd have been waiting a very long time to get the couple notches I did over the last year.

If I have the time and energy to make it out of the house even one or two nights a week, I'm having a very good week. Sometimes working 20 minutes a day to check messages and see if anything interesting turned up, or fire off a few openers before I go to the gym for an hour (so I'm not grossly out-of-shape like so many men in my age demographic are, so when a fit 29 year old hits me up for the date on average maybe once a month feel I actually have a shot) is about all the investment in game I can tolerate.

The (theoretically) exclusively-committed LTR certainly has its appeal. I mean I recently found myself considering not breaking it off with a girl I'd been seeing for quite a while, even though I knew she'd rolled out with another dude a couple times while I was seeing her and I didn't at that point have any other girls in the works, simply because a) she would've likely agreed to be non-monogamous and continued to see me whenever I wanted and b) she was smart and good company, didn't drink, cooked well, threw it down in bed and almost never denied me sex, seemed to have a stable family life and a good relationship with her folks, worked very hard to please me in general, etc.

But then I end up going down the same thought process as posters preppy and Mr. Galt are talking about above: at the end of the day, whatever good qualities she had, I know from our conversations she a hoe, she's getting hit up on FB and Tinder, got orbiters and old bangs coming out of the woodwork to hit her up again when they get the impression she still on the market. And why wouldn't they? Lots of guys aren't dumb, and they're picking up on the same attractive qualities I am, beyond just being a perfectly bangable-for-her-age 6.5, who's simply a little too short and "girl next door" librarian-looking for many guys to think of as a stunner.

And unfortunately, at least for me, I get the undeniable nasty feeling that trying to continue on in a non-monogamous quasi-LTR with a girl I know is a hoe where I'm investing anything more than about four hours a week is just handing 'em a license to use me as a cuck.

Even a simply "pretty cute" 30 year old woman, younger-looking than her age but still headed towards the wall, as she was, can get fuckbuddied out by good-looking player as easy as I can grab lunch at Taco Bell and she'll often have no problem signing on for the deal, no matter who else is in her life, if he got game and she feels free to do so. You get the sense that this was the "open hypergamy" plan all along. "Hey champ, I like you, but if you both don't want to wife me up and want an emotional connection in addition, you gotta accept that I have a lot of offers coming in for whatever I want. Plenty of guys just want to bang me and bounce out the door. That's cool, they're cute! I know I can always rely on you for support and good conversation."

Meanwhile at my age even having two plates on rotation concurrently, where I'm investing any more emotion and energy than what feels like just using her as an unpaid hooker, is like a full-time job.

[hv123]

(10-04-2016 10:36 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Biggest thing I learned was to pay a close attention on how much effort they actually put into the relationship. The ones who are willing to sacrifice their own time and energy to see you or help you, even when it is difficult to make the arrangements works and there is no immediate benefit, should always be prioritized over the chicks that only want to see you when it works for them.

Quote:

into sports, career oriented, good job, she had money and was independent.

Except for "career oriented" (I prefer family oriented), those aren't bad qualities. Independent is a great thing if that's what it actually means and not "strong and independent". A woman who is actually independent and not "feminist independent" will be a low maintenance woman which is a MUST if you are in any kind of occupation that is remotely high flying or challenging.

Sports can be a good thing if it means she likes participating in sports with you or even if she has some local girl's team she participates in. Again no harm, great if the "sport" is something like Tennis or cycling that can be a shared activity. If you mean she likes watching sports then that is to me an indicator of masculine traits.

Money speaks for itself. If you actually are thinking about marrying a chick she should be able to manage it well enough that she has some instead of has spent a lot.

Good job? Irrelevant if you want a traditional LTR.

Not all are necessarily bad characteristics. Some of the list just struck me as a list a woman would write.

[iknowexactly]

(10-04-2016 10:36 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Good job? Irrelevant if you want a traditional LTR.

I must disagree, all other things being equal a good job is a negative, because she didn't get it by accident, she got it by prioritizing getting a job over getting a good man and getting married.

I think there are talented women who can work a lot and do a lot of good, but I don't think they are the women I want to marry.

[John_Galt]

Agreed IKE.

BTW, I noticed your signature. Do you have a thread about it? I'm curious to hear the story!

[Palo_alto]

Quote:

Not terribly becoming behavior, a girl who is rolling with me should know enough not to get sloppy drunk when we're together in public, but in a different woman whom your gut wasn't giving you such bad feelings about an incident like that might have simply been worthy of a "soft next", not a complete relationship abort program. Sounds like you used it as a pretext to do what your gut was telling you, and that's not necessarily bad. That gut instinct is often pretty reliable.

This is completely true.

I had a bad gut feeling about her during the first months of our relationship where she was still in contact with her ex. We were not that serious at that time but it bother me tremendously. I never said anything, I was banging the other 2 chicks and pretend i did not care about it. But it did. I kept my ego high but my EROS was destroyed.

This was the 1st step.

2nd one was when we were playing a stupid drinking game with her friends , the one that you should drink if you have a positive response to an X question.

Question was, have you ever had sex in a club?
She took the zip. I did not.

This was all before we were officially together and part of her past, so it should not affect me. But it did. I remember crying like a baby that night for falling in love with a lizard that fuck a guy in a club. And for falling before she did.

On one hand she was honest about it. I just did not need to know.

Question to you,

When screening for an LTR. Do you openly ask questions that may bother you down the line?
Example: How many sex partners have you had?

Cambio y fuera

[XPQ22]

(10-05-2016 08:35 AM)Palo_alto Wrote:  

2nd one was when we were playing a stupid drinking game with her friends , the one that you should drink if you have a positive response to an X question.

Question was, have you ever had sex in a club?
She took the zip. I did not.

This was all before we were officially together and part of her past, so it should not affect me. But it did. I remember crying like a baby that night for falling in love with a lizard that fuck a guy in a club. And for falling before she did.

Yeah, you made the right call on this one.

It doesn't bother me as much as some guys here rolling with chicks who have a "past", Christ I'm 38 now, every girl in the late 20s-early 30s demographic who is still dating has a past of some sort, sure as sugar. They often want to tell me about it and I'm usually cool with that, at this point in my life my own history is usually quite a bit more interesting than theirs.

But there's a right and a wrong time to do it. Right time: after you've just tied her up and gave her one of the best fuckings of her life in her apartment, and she's in that sleepy-dreamy "let's cuddle bond and talk about our experiences" state that girls end up in after good sex.

Wrong time: when you're out in public playing a drinking game with her friends. To use a term that the kids use a lot these days: Really? You think throwing that personal data around in public is becoming and I'm going to feel great about it while I'm sitting right next to you gently holding your hand like you're the Virgin Mary?

Get off the bus. She can talk all she likes about how she wants to change and be different, but hoe is, is hoe does

[Amy Jane]

(10-04-2016 09:38 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Everyone puts their best foot forward in the beginning stages of dating, its when the other shoe drops that you see trheir true selves. Thats usually when the crazy comes out.

You judge women so severely. Do you think you are perfect OP? And the same question to this particular poster.

[HOD]

(10-04-2016 08:46 AM)Palo_alto Wrote:  

Background:

We met through HAPPN dating app. She was 4 years older than me. I am in my late 20´s.

The biggest red flag, she is older than you, and she is in her 30's and still single. Potential Carousel Rider.

[Khan]

Dalaran1991, I basically agree with everything you've said.

(10-05-2016 07:09 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

And more often than not you are the one not wanting to make things work, even with the girl does.

I believe this is where it went wrong, except for our character incompatibility. A successful relationship is very much like a dance - the man leads, the woman follows. In my case, she wasn't willing to do any work to follow my lead. Sure, she probably wanted to make things work, but the problem was she thought she doesn't have to invest or sacrifice anything in order to make it work.

I often ponder about it, as before Mrs. Marriage Material I had a brief fling with a girl who was anything but marriage material. However, with her I had both great chemistry and character compatibility. She was actually the complete opposite. Life sometimes truly works in mysterious ways.

[Amy Jane]

(10-05-2016 09:06 AM)Khan Wrote:  

Dalaran1991, I basically agree with everything you've said.

(10-05-2016 07:09 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

And more often than not you are the one not wanting to make things work, even with the girl does.

I believe this is where it went wrong, except for our character incompatibility. A successful relationship is very much like a dance - the man leads, the woman follows. In my case, she wasn't willing to do any work to follow my lead. Sure, she probably wanted to make things work, but the problem was she thought she doesn't have to invest or sacrifice anything in order to make it work.

I often ponder about it, as before Mrs. Marriage Material I had a brief fling with a girl who was anything but marriage material. However, with her I had both great chemistry and character compatibility. She was actually the complete opposite. Life sometimes truly works in mysterious ways.

I disagree that it's the man leads and the woman follows. And I think that this is where men often go wrong with women. They think of what they want, their way, and the woman's flaws etc etc.

A relationship is an equal dance.

When we reach a world where people treat each other with respect, pride and dignity, both genders will benefit.

[cascadecombo]

(10-05-2016 08:55 AM)Amy Jane Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 09:38 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Everyone puts their best foot forward in the beginning stages of dating, its when the other shoe drops that you see trheir true selves. Thats usually when the crazy comes out.

You judge women so severely. Do you think you are perfect OP? And the same question to this particular poster.

[Dalaran1991]

(10-05-2016 09:06 AM)Khan Wrote:  

I believe this is where it went wrong, except for our character incompatibility. A successful relationship is very much like a dance - the man leads, the woman follows. In my case, she wasn't willing to do any work to follow my lead. Sure, she probably wanted to make things work, but the problem was she thought she doesn't have to invest or sacrifice anything in order to make it work.

Funny you said that because my learning game is simultaneous with my learning salsa/bachata.

Here's some food for thought: imagine it wasn't your LTR, but a toddler. Would a toddler follow your lead, or would it follow its instincts?

And given that a toddler is not inherently bad, and we can raise it to one day become a great man / woman, I find it an interesting thought, because women are overgrown toddler. Which is not a bad thing.

If you cant even "raise" your LTR to be good, its unlikely you will be able to raise a good child.

Women are fucking clueless when it comes to relationships.

My LTR is like yours. She is beautiful and checks all the LTR boxes. She has a good heart, but she has the social awareness of a toddler, and is subjected to temptation, just like a child will eat the first candy given to him. Its your job to train her to be good, to WANT to be with you, to be your girlfriend.
My girl sometimes drives me crazy in her drama bouts and every time after, she would apologize while sobbing and tell me “I don’t understand why I did xyz and it scares me because it makes me think I don’t love you”

It struck a chord within me the first time.

And every time I sat down with her and explain to her how our mind work, how human biology and psychology changes when you are a couple. And every time she is grateful to learn (well, until her next bout of drama. But its important that she doesn’t make the same mistake twice)

Many will tell you that its not your job to teach her how to love you. Niggas be expecting a virgin just wakes up one day and learn how to be pleasant and faithful…. Like alphas are just born out of Chuck Norris' ass and shit like that I’d much prefer me teaching a young clueless virgin to love me, rather than take a girl who “got it” after riding some express cock train.

I know that I will need a virgin to be the mother of my child, and preach what you want, its harder to do it at 40 than at 30. So I’d much rather spend time grooming a girl to be my future wife, and I treat every LTR pre-30 as training ground for it. Working out and learning stuff everyday so far.

Caveat though: if you want to spend this kind of effort, screen screen screen for a girl with good foundation. Virgin AND under 25 non-negociable.

But if you think you will enjoy being alone and sarging it at 60s, none of this applies to you.

[Il Bersagliere]

(10-05-2016 09:12 AM)Amy Jane Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:06 AM)Khan Wrote:  

Dalaran1991, I basically agree with everything you've said.

(10-05-2016 07:09 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

And more often than not you are the one not wanting to make things work, even with the girl does.

I believe this is where it went wrong, except for our character incompatibility. A successful relationship is very much like a dance - the man leads, the woman follows. In my case, she wasn't willing to do any work to follow my lead. Sure, she probably wanted to make things work, but the problem was she thought she doesn't have to invest or sacrifice anything in order to make it work.

I often ponder about it, as before Mrs. Marriage Material I had a brief fling with a girl who was anything but marriage material. However, with her I had both great chemistry and character compatibility. She was actually the complete opposite. Life sometimes truly works in mysterious ways.

I disagree that it's the man leads and the woman follows. And I think that this is where men often go wrong with women. They think of what they want, their way, and the woman's flaws etc etc.

A relationship is an equal dance.

When we reach a world where people treat each other with respect, pride and dignity, both genders will benefit.

[griffinmill]

I was in a LTR for around 7 years and finally broke free in about 2013. This was a gambit as I could have just cashed my chips in with this young and attractive girl and set up a home with her. The girl was unfortunately a little neurotic and very controlling and jealous. Being young and having had few reference experiences, I stuck it out with her for longer than I should have. Having had limited experience with women in my youth, I longed to make up for lost time.

When I broke up with her in 2013 I fucked 20 women in that one year alone, which was a considerable achievement considering up until that point in my life before the break-up I had only fucked around 6. Most of my notches then (and still do) come from online, but coincidentally (and I think I'm not alone in thinking this) online hit its peak around this time and it's been downhill ever since.

My LTR was a good girl in many ways (very caring) but I always knew I could do better. I wasted too much time with her. She met someone else within a week or two of splitting up with me (yes, really... and there could have even been some overlap, who knows). They got married this summer.

I haven't entered into anything long-term with any other girl. I'm happier now then I've ever been. I suppose I would like something more permanent at this stage, but it's not causing me any major distress, and am having fun dividing my time between plates, and meeting new ones. I'm 38. If I had met my LTR now, I'd have lasted about a week before bailing on her. There would have been many red flags. The mistakes we make in our youth.

[iknowexactly]

(10-05-2016 09:12 AM)Amy Jane Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:06 AM)Khan Wrote:  

Dalaran1991, I basically agree with everything you've said.

(10-05-2016 07:09 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

And more often than not you are the one not wanting to make things work, even with the girl does.

I believe this is where it went wrong, except for our character incompatibility.

I disagree that it's the man leads and the woman follows. And I think that this is where men often go wrong with women. They think of what they want, their way, and the woman's flaws etc etc.

A relationship is an equal dance.

When we reach a world where people treat each other with respect, pride and dignity, both genders will benefit.

"A relationship is an equal dance." If both parties were rational actors.

Nice of you to crash our party, will mods ban her already, we have to listen to this naive tripe all day in the Femcentric world.

While 90%+ of workplace deaths are men, you have no idea what you are talking about, Amykins. Women are children who have been humored to an excessive extent.

[Phoenix]

(10-05-2016 09:12 AM)Amy Jane Wrote:  

I disagree that it's the man leads and the woman follows. And I think that this is where men often go wrong with women. They think of what they want, their way, and the woman's flaws etc etc.

And women do exactly the same. They're happy to take everything they can get, even if they kill men in the process (Robin Williams), but woe betide a group of men thinking the same way.

(10-05-2016 09:12 AM)Amy Jane Wrote:  

A relationship is an equal dance.

Funny you say that, given that almost all partner dances have the man leading .

(10-05-2016 09:12 AM)Amy Jane Wrote:  

When we reach a world where people treat each other with respect, pride and dignity, both genders will benefit.

Only if both genders stick to their roles. Get back in the kitchen and leave politics to the men, unless you're willing to spread them in Cologne, leftist!

[General Stalin]

Things I've learned from long term relationships:

1.) Everyone is selfish and will always default to their best interests.

2.) On a long enough time-line, you can and will get tired of anyone. The pussy gets boring, their personality becomes grating, and you will long for something fresh and different at one point or another.

3.) A relationship of a very extended time (multiple years) can only really continue to be valuable if you start a family. Otherwise you both stagnate with one another and one or both of you will grow to resent the other. Family is the next logical step after the honeymoon-effect has faded.

4.) After the first 6 months, any given female will typically not go as far to impress you as she did prior. On average, a typical woman will expect more from you for the same or less from her.

5.) A female is really only worth hanging with for a long time if she actually adds considerable benefit to your life beyond regular sex. Having something cute on your arm who you spend money with a couple times a week a good relationship does not make. She needs to be "in your corner" and actually make your life better than it was besides just being decent company.

6.) The things you do that she doesn't like will matter to her far more more than the things you do that she does like. Negatives weigh more than positives, especially later on.

7.) It is unfair and shitty of you to waste her time if you don't want the things she wants.

[Khan]

(10-05-2016 09:45 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(10-05-2016 09:06 AM)Khan Wrote:  

I believe this is where it went wrong, except for our character incompatibility. A successful relationship is very much like a dance - the man leads, the woman follows. In my case, she wasn't willing to do any work to follow my lead. Sure, she probably wanted to make things work, but the problem was she thought she doesn't have to invest or sacrifice anything in order to make it work.

Funny you said that because my learning game is simultaneous with my learning salsa/bachata.

Here's some food for thought: imagine it wasn't your LTR, but a toddler. Would a toddler follow your lead, or would it follow its instincts?

And given that a toddler is not inherently bad, and we can raise it to one day become a great man / woman, I find it an interesting thought, because women are overgrown toddler. Which is not a bad thing.

If you cant even "raise" your LTR to be good, its unlikely you will be able to raise a good child.

Women are fucking clueless when it comes to relationships.

My LTR is like yours. She is beautiful and checks all the LTR boxes. She has a good heart, but she has the social awareness of a toddler, and is subjected to temptation, just like a child will eat the first candy given to him. Its your job to train her to be good, to WANT to be with you, to be your girlfriend.
My girl sometimes drives me crazy in her drama bouts and every time after, she would apologize while sobbing and tell me “I don’t understand why I did xyz and it scares me because it makes me think I don’t love you”

It struck a chord within me the first time.

And every time I sat down with her and explain to her how our mind work, how human biology and psychology changes when you are a couple. And every time she is grateful to learn (well, until her next bout of drama. But its important that she doesn’t make the same mistake twice)

Many will tell you that its not your job to teach her how to love you. Niggas be expecting a virgin just wakes up one day and learn how to be pleasant and faithful…. Like alphas are just born out of Chuck Norris' ass and shit like that I’d much prefer me teaching a young clueless virgin to love me, rather than take a girl who “got it” after riding some express cock train.

I know that I will need a virgin to be the mother of my child, and preach what you want, its harder to do it at 40 than at 30. So I’d much rather spend time grooming a girl to be my future wife, and I treat every LTR pre-30 as training ground for it. Working out and learning stuff everyday so far.

Caveat though: if you want to spend this kind of effort, screen screen screen for a girl with good foundation. Virgin AND under 25 non-negociable.

But if you think you will enjoy being alone and sarging it at 60s, none of this applies to you.

Very interesting viewpoint. Thank you for sharing this, I'll have it in mind in the future.

[griffinmill]

(10-05-2016 12:59 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

It is unfair and shitty of you to waste her time if you don't want the things she wants.

When you're young, and when the years fly by like weeks, you blink and you've been in a LTR for 2 years. You blink again and another year has gone by. While you're in a relationship you become so entangled and co-dependent that it becomes harder and harder to remove yourself even though your gut is screaming at you to do so. You rationalise that things aren't so bad, that maybe she is the one, that it's hell out there on the dating market, and then another year has gone by.

Ultimately though, it's not only her time that has been wasted, but your own. It's tragic and unfortunate, but very easy to waste valuable years with a girl who isn't right for you - and yes, shitty of you to waste her time too.

[John_Galt]

(10-05-2016 08:35 AM)Palo_alto Wrote:  

Question to you,

When screening for an LTR. Do you openly ask questions that may bother you down the line?
Example: How many sex partners have you had?

This is a question every man has to answer for himself. Would you rather be ignorant, and blissful? Or face the ugly, cold, hard reality?

Ignorance is only blissful when you don't feel the effects of the truth you're unaware of. Unfortunately, on a long enough timeline, these facts you ignore and remain unaware of WILL affect your life in negative ways. A girl who's banged a guy in a club and cheated on exes etc has a different mentality than a girl who's never been with another man. (Not saying all virgins are perfect, but 95% of the time they are better than the average slut).

If you're going to spend YEARS of your life, and possibly consider a girl for marriage, I recommend screening HARD and HEAVILY for the traits you value (as well as the ones you wish to avoid). Now, if you aren't ready to be married, but do want a deeper emotional connection, obviously you can lower your standards somewhat, but be aware that the girl is not someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. In other words, curtail your emotions and don't get too attached. I'd also recommend keeping at least one other girl on the side if the girl you're seeing isn't marriage material, as this makes it infinitely easier to get back into the game when things end.

To conclude, I'd like to voice my agreement with the sentiment some of the other posters have made: Wasting a girls valuable reproductive years is indeed a shitty thing to do. However, I trust that most of us can discern whether or not a woman is a carousel rider or actually looking for marriage. If a girl is a carousel rider, I see no harm in letting her ride on your particular stick for longer than the usual period. This is my opinion and others are more than free to disagree.

[XPQ22]

(10-05-2016 05:21 PM)John_Galt Wrote:  

Wasting a girls valuable reproductive years is indeed a shitty thing to do. However, I trust that most of us can discern whether or not a woman is a carousel rider or actually looking for marriage. If a girl is a carousel rider, I see no harm in letting her ride on your particular stick for longer than the usual period. This is my opinion and others are more than free to disagree.

Depends on their demographic, IMO. For my part I find it absurd that never-married women in their early to mid 30s want to get miffed at me because I'm not interested in wifing them up after six months. They're the same girls who at age 27 were probably hard on the carousel, figured they could ride it till five minutes before the park closed and that they could jump off under the gun and everything would some how play out alright.

Maybe you don't actually want kids, miss. Maybe you have some anxiety issues going on or whatever, worrying that maybe I do think you're the right one but just need a little more time and can't deal with the uncertainty of how it might play out. Anyway, you should probably talk to a therapist about that.

From my point of view all that concern is a YP, not a MP. What I do know is that trying to front really hard and go high-pressure sales, letting it be known that you have all these other options coming in is for me not a good tactic to use to try and close the deal - guess it's unlucky that out of all the men in the world you tried to use that tactic on RVF forum member...

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Lord if only I could bottle up all of these hard earned lessons in this thread (along with my own) and condense them down into a readable format.

The next generation needs access to the LTR handbook we never had

[The Black Knight]

1. LTRs are generally pointless/not worth it unless you see the woman as a "mother of my children" candidate. The LTR should end immediately if the woman displays non-MOMC actions. Do not rationalize any bullshit behavior. Maintain your standards at all times and deal with violations swiftly.

2. Never live with a woman that isn't a "mother of my children" candidate. No amount of money you save is worth the eventual trade-offs and bullshit.

3. When a woman has checked out, she has checked out. When that burning desire is gone, it's gone. Accept it immediately and eject. Don't fight it. Assume she gives zero fucks about you and your welfare once she has checked out and protect yourself accordingly.

4. Relationship leverage is everything. If you live in the west, it's extremely difficult to maintain superior leverage over a chick. Everything is working against you: the culture, the courts, her friends, her family, the dating market etc. You must do everything possible from Day 1 to establish superior leverage and maintain it with a good buffer. It should feel like a privilege for her to be with you; not the other way around.

5. Once a woman senses you're afraid of losing her, you have lost leverage probably for forever.

6. Men and women are NOT equal. NEVER accept that paradigm and all that stems from it from anyone.

7. Women need to come to the table with their shit together attitude wise on day 1. Fuck this "I'm gonna train them" bullshit. You can slightly mold people but I'm not in the business of un-fucking 20+ years of poor parenting and militant feminist programming.

8. Those who want respect, give respect. As a man though, limit your generosity and overly nice behavior even with women who treat you good. She has a 100+ orbiters willing to move planets to give her whatever she wants; don't be them or associate being like them in any way. Again, you are doing her the favor showing her any attention.

9. Avoid women completely who are significant liabilities to your health, safety, or money flow. Victim complexes, history of drama with ex-BFs, history of police action against an ex or exes, mental disorders, self-destructive tendencies, losers who have a lot to gain from an unplanned baby, and generally most 30+ women. Don't even ONS these women. Treat your jizz like it's the keys to your bank account for the next 20 years. You wouldn't let anyone handle something so important, right?

10. Women who come from broken homes are generally broken people with only rare exceptions. Pay very close attention to how they interact and respect their parent(s)/family members, why so, and is their attitude justified. Avoid those that give respect to broken/fucked up parents and relatives unless you want a girl who will expect you to be loyal to her when she acts shitty towards you. Bottom line: a shitty upbringing usually leads to shitty women.

11. Never be afraid to walk away. Ever. "Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner"

[Dalaran1991]

(10-06-2016 12:19 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

2. Never live with a woman that isn't a "mother of my children" candidate. No amount of money you save is worth the eventual trade-offs and bullshit.

Never live with your LTR, period. Until you have decided that you are marrying her.

Quote:

7. Women need to come to the table with their shit together attitude wise on day 1. Fuck this "I'm gonna train them" bullshit. You can slightly mold people but I'm not in the business of un-fucking 20+ years of poor parenting and militant feminist programming.

If she already has poor parenting and militant feminism conditioning, why are you even talking to her? The first order of business for LTR is proper screening. Only THEN can you talk about training or not. Women IS my business and I treat it as such, and I'm damn well sure you dont walk out of your own start-up the moment it is failing. Only when you know for sure it's not gonna work.

Your points are well taken but I feel like a lot of the women with the traits you describe should not even be in the "plate" category, let alone LTR. Good points to keep in mind for screening though.

The problem is not LTR itself, just like marriage is not a problem. The problem is that people get sacked up with shitty girls who have no business being in LTR to begin with, then they say LTR are shit. Thats like picking a bad shoe that hurt your feet then say shoes hurt your feet, just wear sneakers.

One of my LTR went to shit but thats due to poor screening on my part, not the LTR itself. I learned plenty from it and carry the lessons over to my current one.


There are plenty of women who have good foundation for LTR, and one such trait is that she is willing to learn and follow a good lead. There are even women who are pretty and actually dont go out that much nor use online dating. I'm slowly discovering this segment, will put together a datasheet when I learn enough. Doubt it works in the Anglosphere though.

People need to chill out and stop seeing everything as a struggle for power and control (even though it mostly is). LTR gives you great lessons about yourself, and just how weak/vulnerable you can be when you are with someone for an extended period. That's something that plating and ONS could never teach you.

Heck, this thread with valuable lessons would not even be possible had people not been in LTR.

And despite what we preach here, there are more serial monogamists than hardcore players.

[The Black Knight]

(10-06-2016 02:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 12:19 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

2. Never live with a woman that isn't a "mother of my children" candidate. No amount of money you save is worth the eventual trade-offs and bullshit.

Never live with your LTR, period. Until you have decided that you are marrying her.

I disagree. You live with them to verify they are legit THEN you decide whether starting a family with them/getting married or not. You never know what kind of random shit could come up when you live with somebody despite the best screening techniques.

(10-06-2016 02:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Quote:

7. Women need to come to the table with their shit together attitude wise on day 1. Fuck this "I'm gonna train them" bullshit. You can slightly mold people but I'm not in the business of un-fucking 20+ years of poor parenting and militant feminist programming.

If she already has poor parenting and militant feminism conditioning, why are you even talking to her?

The thread title was: "Things I've learnt after breaking out with LTR. What have you learnt?"

The things I've learned over the years also come from my pre-red pill days. I was explaining how a woman needs to come to the table with a good foundation (like you described) and one shouldn't waste time with chicks that are so far gone attitude wise. There are PLENTY of of people on this forum/who read this forum who still believe you can unfuck a militant feminist and/or some chick who has serious upbringing issues/red flags and have a successful LTR them.

Generally speaking, this sort of stuff cannot be fixed. Of course, I know this now but again, the thread is about lessons you learned.