[KingOfFire]

The role of Alpha males in traditional society is clear - to mate with the women and lead the members of the tribe.
But what is not discussed so much is what is the role, if any, of the beta and gamma guys. How does the tribe treat them, and what happens to them?

[BortimusPrime]

The beta's role is to prep the bull, and the gamma's role is to hide in the closet and watch.

[Rhyme or Reason]

To have their heads smashed on the nearest rock by an alpha

[Dusty]

Read Brave New World.

[RIslander]

I'm thinking the post count to create a new thread needs to be raised...

[Lagavulin]

(07-07-2016 05:00 AM)KingOfFire Wrote:  

The role of Alpha males in traditional society is clear - to mate with the women and lead the members of the tribe.
But what is not discussed so much is what is the role, if any, of the beta and gamma guys. How does the tribe treat them, and what happens to them?

They are the tribe. The definition of an alpha male is the dominant male within a group - there can be only one.

Other males could and would challenge the alpha, somebody had to lose. Didn't mean they were all pussies.

This has changed as society has evolved but traditionally there was only one alpha.

As for what they did within the tribe, got on with life as best as they could would be my guess. Hunt as a group, mate with the alpha's leftovers...

Doesn't really matter does it.

[weambulance]

[RexImperator]

If we are using Vox Day's hierarchy, then Betas and Deltas are like officers/enlisted in the army. I think Vox Day's "Delta" is like a Heartiste Beta.

Omegas are like hermits, philosophers, mystics, living in the desert. The good ones would be like Diogenes or St. John the Baptist.

Sigmas are bad boys/rebels. Heartiste calls them a "renegade alpha".

Gammas...maybe comedians?

[The Man w/ the Golden Gun]

We make fun of them already.

[Fortis]

If everyone is alpha, then nothing gets built because alphas use betas for building and carrying out their ideas.

Gammas are interesting. They're essentially men who think like women. That may sound 100% negative, but I think it does serve a role in society. They're schemers and, sometimes, visionaries.

Whenever I think of guys behind world crises and things like that I always think of those gamma fucking schemers. When exposed for what they are they are dealt with quickly, but (like the women they imitate) they're often surrounded by people who buy into their bullshit and will willingly protect (white knight) them.


Think of Littlefinger in GOT. He's a super high level schemer who affects effects the world on a massive level. By pitting stronger people against eachother. He'd get fucked hard if anyone other than Varys knew what he was up to, but his feminine cunning is way too high level for 99% of westeros to even catch on to.

[911]

(07-07-2016 06:06 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

Waiter!... There's hair in my burger!

[Khan]

Depends on what do you consider 'traditional society'. Pre-civilization tribes with hunter-gatherer groups, or a patriarchal civilization built on marriage, monogamy and religion?

[Mage]

There are underdogs in every social setup, that's just life.

[H1N1]

We all exist on a spectrum (some of us on more than one ). The idea that people fit into neatly delineated categories bears no relation to the world as I continue to experience it.

[nomadbrah]

Lot's of nonsense about this alpha, beta, omega thing.

First of all, the fundamental base of all humans is the tribe of 20-30 people or so, all humans evolved this way. Tribal societies did not fully understand procreation and sex, in particular it's highly unlikely the first humans understood the role of sperm in fertilization. This meant tribes raised children as a group and unlike pseudo-science in early PUA bs, there would be no sickly, weak omegas in tribal societies. Cripples and weaklings would be killed at birth. In fact Cro-Magnon man of Europe had a larger brain than modern humans, they were smarter, they were around 5'10'' in height on average. That's a taller, smarter, probably better looking group of people now.

In addition, tribal societies were extremely close knit, even people who killed someone in the tribe were usually not killed, but banished (which usually meant death). Social cohesion to such a degree is only possible with sexually satisfied members. More likely there was a lot of fucking going on. It's most likely that there was some kind of marriage, but wife swapping and extramarital affairs were probably common, as is the case of people such as Eskimoes up until recently.

The omega is the result of domestication and agriculture. A society with agriculture has to understand the role of male fertilizer in reproduction and in addition, with farming comes permanent land settling and heritage. Thus the need for patriarchy. With patriarchy comes sexual control of women. In addition, as farming grows strong, cities form and when cities form, it allows specilization because of food surplus. Mutations which would have been useless during hunter gatherer times, suddenly can survive such as sycophants and 'intellectuals'. In time, the physically weak, but intellectually smart begin to devise religion and particularly religious caste systems to syphon resources for themselves.

With the death of religion, these omega manipulators now run to SJWism which is nothing but puritan religon under the guise of tolerance.

[Mage]

(07-08-2016 07:01 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

In addition, tribal societies were extremely close knit, even people who killed someone in the tribe were usually not killed, but banished (which usually meant death). Social cohesion to such a degree is only possible with sexually satisfied members. More likely there was a lot of fucking going on. It's most likely that there was some kind of marriage, but wife swapping and extramarital affairs were probably common, as is the case of people such as Eskimoes up until recently.

I am very skeptical about everyone being sexually satisfied in a swinger community. There are dominant males whom women want to fuck and lesser males whom women would rather avoid.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(07-07-2016 07:01 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

If everyone is alpha, then nothing gets built because alphas use betas for building and carrying out their ideas.

Gammas are interesting. They're essentially men who think like women. That may sound 100% negative, but I think it does serve a role in society. They're schemers and, sometimes, visionaries.

Whenever I think of guys behind world crises and things like that I always think of those gamma fucking schemers. When exposed for what they are they are dealt with quickly, but (like the women they imitate) they're often surrounded by people who buy into their bullshit and will willingly protect (white knight) them.


Think of Littlefinger in GOT. He's a super high level schemer who affects effects the world on a massive level. By pitting stronger people against eachother. He'd get fucked hard if anyone other than Varys knew what he was up to, but his feminine cunning is way too high level for 99% of westeros to even catch on to.

I disagree with you completely especially the bolded. Cunning, intelligence, and being a visionary are the farthest thing from female traits. Women have a crabs in a bucket mentality where their intelligence is to equalize every other female to below their level or at it if they can't.

Men on the other hand like to exceed their station. Littlefinger is "alpha" because of that.

On the gamma male. What purpose do they serve when they can't even get off their ass and do something or excel at something(besides being social) so much so that they can't do anything else? Well they become your bureaucrats and dominated Human Resources departments till women came into the picture. So yes they do think like women, but because they hate everyone else for ever having more enjoyment than them.

They're nitpicky and very precise about their perceived rules so they become those annoying fucks. They're necessary due to the fact that they completely push the supposed natural order. Just look at the face of the guy that stands behind the counter at the DMV. That's your gamma in action.


My personal take on the hierarchy is:

Alpha- Leaders and Rule Setters
Betas- Second in Command and getting people working on the details of the will of the top dog
Gamma- Your bureaucrats(intelligent, neurotic, and much less fun than the everyone else to be around which is why they're basement dwellers and generally everyone else ranks higher on the totem pole in that regard)
Delta- worker and average joe
Sigmas-Revolutionaries, rebels, artists, and musicians(aka functional outcasts with express vision note the use of the term "functional" as most "artists" as they label themselves produce trash)
Omega-Criminals, hermits, social outcasts, cultists, and other associated malcontents/failures of the system

How the Manosphere views it:

Alpha- Someone who gets laid and gets paid

Beta- Someone who is one or few steps away from getting laid and getting paid

Gamma- Neckbeard who won't be getting paid or getting laid ever.

[The Beast1]

(07-07-2016 05:00 AM)KingOfFire Wrote:  

.
But what is not discussed so much is what is the role, if any, of the beta and gamma guys. How does the tribe treat them, and what happens to them?

Their role is to open stupid threads like this and to miss the massive point that "alpha" is situational.

[Beijong]

(07-08-2016 07:01 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Lot's of nonsense about this alpha, beta, omega thing.

First of all, the fundamental base of all humans is the tribe of 20-30 people or so, all humans evolved this way. Tribal societies did not fully understand procreation and sex, in particular it's highly unlikely the first humans understood the role of sperm in fertilization. This meant tribes raised children as a group and unlike pseudo-science in early PUA bs, there would be no sickly, weak omegas in tribal societies. Cripples and weaklings would be killed at birth. In fact Cro-Magnon man of Europe had a larger brain than modern humans, they were smarter, they were around 5'10'' in height on average. That's a taller, smarter, probably better looking group of people now.

In addition, tribal societies were extremely close knit, even people who killed someone in the tribe were usually not killed, but banished (which usually meant death). Social cohesion to such a degree is only possible with sexually satisfied members. More likely there was a lot of fucking going on. It's most likely that there was some kind of marriage, but wife swapping and extramarital affairs were probably common, as is the case of people such as Eskimoes up until recently.

The omega is the result of domestication and agriculture. A society with agriculture has to understand the role of male fertilizer in reproduction and in addition, with farming comes permanent land settling and heritage. Thus the need for patriarchy. With patriarchy comes sexual control of women. In addition, as farming grows strong, cities form and when cities form, it allows specilization because of food surplus. Mutations which would have been useless during hunter gatherer times, suddenly can survive such as sycophants and 'intellectuals'. In time, the physically weak, but intellectually smart begin to devise religion and particularly religious caste systems to syphon resources for themselves.

With the death of religion, these omega manipulators now run to SJWism which is nothing but puritan religon under the guise of tolerance.

You lost me when you put on your fedora. Every successful tribe anywhere had a version of religion, ie, a connection to the creator and respect for natural laws

[Basil II]

In traditional/patriarchal societies the gap between alpha and beta is not easily discernible as it is in modern day (ie, alphas enjoy female attention, betas do not)

When monogamy is enforced and 90% of men can expect a wife and regular sex then there is no more distinction between alpha/beta among the male populace. Alphas of patriarchal societies will be very few in number, as will be the gammas who are quickly banished. What role does that leave the betas? Same as everyone, contribute to nation and family.

[nomadbrah]

(07-08-2016 08:50 AM)Beijong Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:01 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Lot's of nonsense about this alpha, beta, omega thing.

First of all, the fundamental base of all humans is the tribe of 20-30 people or so, all humans evolved this way. Tribal societies did not fully understand procreation and sex, in particular it's highly unlikely the first humans understood the role of sperm in fertilization. This meant tribes raised children as a group and unlike pseudo-science in early PUA bs, there would be no sickly, weak omegas in tribal societies. Cripples and weaklings would be killed at birth. In fact Cro-Magnon man of Europe had a larger brain than modern humans, they were smarter, they were around 5'10'' in height on average. That's a taller, smarter, probably better looking group of people now.

In addition, tribal societies were extremely close knit, even people who killed someone in the tribe were usually not killed, but banished (which usually meant death). Social cohesion to such a degree is only possible with sexually satisfied members. More likely there was a lot of fucking going on. It's most likely that there was some kind of marriage, but wife swapping and extramarital affairs were probably common, as is the case of people such as Eskimoes up until recently.

The omega is the result of domestication and agriculture. A society with agriculture has to understand the role of male fertilizer in reproduction and in addition, with farming comes permanent land settling and heritage. Thus the need for patriarchy. With patriarchy comes sexual control of women. In addition, as farming grows strong, cities form and when cities form, it allows specilization because of food surplus. Mutations which would have been useless during hunter gatherer times, suddenly can survive such as sycophants and 'intellectuals'. In time, the physically weak, but intellectually smart begin to devise religion and particularly religious caste systems to syphon resources for themselves.

With the death of religion, these omega manipulators now run to SJWism which is nothing but puritan religon under the guise of tolerance.

You lost me when you put on your fedora. Every successful tribe anywhere had a version of religion, ie, a connection to the creator and respect for natural laws

Haha, I am not a fedora atheist, quite the contrary, I am talking about the clergy of religion later on, such as priestly cults who use 'hidden knowledge' to gain power.

[EDantes]

From what I read about anthropology there were not clearly defined "roles" in traditional hunter-gatherer society, but the more "alpha" a man was, he would have the first pick of women, and the rest would be handed down accordingly.

Men who couldn't keep up with the male roles such as hunting would be relegated to the "female" roles such as foraging; it was basically meritocratic.

[eatthishomie]

They really hold society together if you think about it.

A big component of the upcoming societal collapse will be the raw deal betas are getting now because they really do the behind the scenes work that allows women and alphas to flourish.

[KingOfFire]

(07-08-2016 07:01 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

...there would be no sickly, weak omegas in tribal societies. Cripples and weaklings would be killed at birth.

The omega is the result of domestication and agriculture.

I agree with the second point you make above, but it describes the emergence of the "omega" from domestication and agriculture. My question is what is the mechanism by which this occurs?

i.e. what forces act upon offspring in civilized culture that results in some of them becoming omegas. Versus what forces act upon offspring in purely uncivilized society that results in NONE of them becoming omegas?
Is it that the weak omegas are killed off (your first point), or is there more to it?

Maybe the answer is weak parenting in civilized society, that parents don't put enough stress on those children who go on to become omegas, so they don't get toughened up.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(07-09-2016 04:01 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

They really hold society together if you think about it.

A big component of the upcoming societal collapse will be the raw deal betas are getting now because they really do the behind the scenes work that allows women and alphas to flourish.

It really makes you think. In my dad's day, beta game worked. It's no wonder so many dads are unable to offer good advice about chicks to their sons.