[blacknwhitespade]

Bernie has the future of the Democratic Party

I don't normally like to link articles from FoxNews, but I saw the rise of Bernie-esque candidates years ago. Read another article 1.5 years ago when Hillary started planting her seeds and received backlash... from the rising tide of (mostly young people) leading the liberal populist wing of the party. I saw it in Chicago last year when Rahm had to campaign hard to hold off a legit threat from Chuy Garcia, a Sanders/DeBlasio style hard leftist rallying working poor and SJWs. Recently, the far-right nominated a SJW socialist to challenge the moderate Dem who took over Alan West's congressional seat in Florida. The centre-left Clinton New Democrat model doesn't go far enough, Obama wasn't liberal enough for them.

I know lots of liberal young people, actually I'd describe them as more "confused" than "liberal", and they're completely going in the tank with this economic socialism of central planning, massive welfare, and high taxes coupled with the petty tyrannical tactics we've all seen them use on social issues.

The GOP is no doubt a dumpster fire right now, but I see a coming schism in the Democrats if these special interest groups start stepping on each others toes in the quest for their loot. Hopefully, we'll soon have a reformed, tougher Republican Party, or something, to counter this culture shift. Either that, or perhaps it's time to seriously start ramping up my online engineering technical services business plans and relocate to South America.

[Seth_Rose]

True, but who are they going to run? The Democrat party has been isolating strong, white-male leadership for years now. It's why their most liberal man is an aging septuagenarian, a remnant of the Soviet-era, who looks like he's about to fall over and break a hip at any given moment. And HRC is an old-guard Democrat too--not new blood.

Look at the Republican debates over the last 8 months or so. There were a number of young men competing for the nomination. While I abhorred most of them, at least they were charismatic and could presumably be President. What younger, white males in Congress will get a future Democratic nomination?

I realize I'm specifically saying 'White', and while Obama was "black" there are still few black, if any, young black men in Congress. There are currently only 2 black senators out of 100: Tim Scott and Cory Booker. The latter is definitely not far-left and is more of the traditional Democratic crowd.

The Democrats have been haranguing masculine, white males for years. The chickens will come home to roost.

Edit: Re-reading the OP the emphasis is not necessarily on elections, but ideology. That said, in order to implement an ideology someone has to be elected. Sanders is doing quite well yes, but much of that enthusiasm comes from an anti-establishment though process, plus the hatred of HRC. Many traditional liberals/Democrats will not get behind a man like Sanders--he is too far left for them.

Also, if identity politics get even stronger, each faction of the Democratic party (women, blacks, LGBT, Hispanics) may get behind their own candidate, and fail to unify behind a single candidate. I read an article today from the Weekly Standard *GASP* saying that 33% of Sanders supporters wont support HRC. I believe it. I've talked to these people. Republicans are naturally more cohesive, despite what's going on in this primary. The desire to stop HRC will supersede petty bickering.

[BIG BOSS]

Hopefully the Democrat Party wont have a future.

[Avarence]

(04-01-2016 09:51 AM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  

True, but who are they going to run? The Democrat party has been isolating strong, white-male leadership for years now.

(04-01-2016 09:51 AM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  

The Democrats have been haranguing masculine, white males for years. The chickens will come home to roost.

Unfortunately I don't think there will be any consequences. In fact, just the opposite.

The future of America only gets less White... and RVF, ROK, etc.'s existence proves the fact we are losing masculinity and leadership qualities as well.

[cubanlinx]

What is this defeatism? This is for Avarence. The God Emperor Trump has created a movement that can't be stopped. It's literally a regime change that'll happen. You're finally turning to the sane side of things. Also, white people are waking up. Very well evidenced by the crowds with Trump. The change won't happen overnight, but it's taking vague and nebulous shape.

[blacknwhitespade]

I'm seeing more and more growing resentment amongst Bernie supporters for HRC. In January leading up to Iowa, it was an estimated 20 percent of Bernie supporters were #NeverHillary, now March/April some estimates show the number to be above 30 percent. HRC has had to pander hard to SJWs and rumor has it that her original likely plan to pick Julian Castro for VP to stem inroads made with hispanics by Cruz/Rubio/Jeb has changed - she's going to have to put Sanders or (insert far left person with SJW cachet here) on the ticket. Castro is too mainstream Democrat, she needs a far left progressive type to give her campaign energy and momentum. Something tells me there's going to be record low turn-out all around in this election.

[spokepoker]

I think all 18yr olds should be required to intern in road repair crews for 2 years before being eligible to going to college.
Free labour for road maintenance, and they learn what it's like to actually work hard.

[Wutang]

Even if Sanders doesn't win the nomination we will be seeing more candidates like him in the next few decades as the millennials today start taking positions of power. It's just pure demographics, more and more people from this generation and younger are buying more into socialistic policies and they're pretty much already sold on progressive when it comes to social issues. There's lots of doom and gloom these days and I'd hate to be another negative Nancy but unless there's a hard turn in the attitudes of young people and teens today I think Bernie's campaign failing is only going to be a temporary setback. There will be more like him and they're going to eventually start winning if just purely due to demographic change.

[rw95]

If Trump does not win this election, a conservative man will never again be elected president in this country. Sadly, even if Trump does get elected, it might not even make a difference. We millennials are probably the first generation to have been indoctrinated by leftist propaganda from every angle: the media, religion, education, etc. It's even worse for the generation after us.

[Samseau]

(04-01-2016 01:12 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

If Trump does not win this election, a conservative man will never again be elected president in this country. Sadly, even if Trump does get elected, it might not even make a difference. We millennials are probably the first generation to have been indoctrinated by leftist propaganda from every angle: the media, religion, education, etc. It's even worse for the generation after us.

I seriously doubt it will get worse for the guys after us, because eventually within 20 years reality is going to bite back very hard. The current unlimited welfare, open borders, money printing scheme isn't sustainable in any sense.

It's just a matter of weathering the storm while the idiots kill themselves off.

[blacknwhitespade]

(04-01-2016 01:12 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

If Trump does not win this election, a conservative man will never again be elected president in this country. Sadly, even if Trump does get elected, it might not even make a difference. We millennials are probably the first generation to have been indoctrinated by leftist propaganda from every angle: the media, religion, education, etc. It's even worse for the generation after us.

There's a conservatism out there amongst Millennials, it's a different kind of conservatism from Reagan/Bush/GWB, not reaganomics, not compassionate conservatism, it's something else that we don't quite have a name for yet. Trump has tapped into it pretty well and has a boiler plate for it, but I don't know if it's ripe enough yet to win the presidency and many downward offices this election. And while Trump is a larger-than-life billionaire needed to ignite this realignment in right-wing politics, for those same reasons and reasons regarding his history, he's probably not electable in the general election this fall. I do think there will be future candidates who will follow in the footsteps of what Trump is laying down here, less personally flawed candidates who could achieve wider appeal, so there is hope for the future.

[rw95]

(04-01-2016 01:48 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 01:12 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

If Trump does not win this election, a conservative man will never again be elected president in this country. Sadly, even if Trump does get elected, it might not even make a difference. We millennials are probably the first generation to have been indoctrinated by leftist propaganda from every angle: the media, religion, education, etc. It's even worse for the generation after us.

There's a conservatism out there amongst Millennials, it's a different kind of conservatism from Reagan/Bush/GWB, not reaganomics, not compassionate conservatism, it's something else that we don't quite have a name for yet. Trump has tapped into it pretty well and has a boiler plate for it, but I don't know if it's ripe enough yet to win the presidency and many downward offices this election. And while Trump is a larger-than-life billionaire needed to ignite this realignment in right-wing politics, for those same reasons and reasons regarding his history, he's probably not electable in the general election this fall. I do think there will be future candidates who will follow in the footsteps of what Trump is laying down here, less personally flawed candidates who could achieve wider appeal, so there is hope for the future.

I disagree. It is Trump or bust this election cycle. Western Europe is gone. The only chance that any aspect of western civilization will survive is if Trump gets into office and saves the US. If Hillary gets elected it is game over for the west. The only good thing that will come out of it is that eventually there will be a hard and permanent return to patriarchy. Unfortunately, it will be under an Islamic caliphate, and everything good western civilization ever produced will be lost forever.

[realologist]

The reason why there are young liberals is because the young are more likely to be liberal and idealistic. When cold hard reality hits, they have to work for everything and people grow then they generally become Republican.

That's why the saying goes

"If you aren't a liberal while young, you don't have a heart. If you aren't a middle-aged conservative, you don't have a head"

Or something like that. These same hardcore Bernie supporters will be on the opposite end by the next election.

[Wutang]

(04-01-2016 01:48 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 01:12 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

If Trump does not win this election, a conservative man will never again be elected president in this country. Sadly, even if Trump does get elected, it might not even make a difference. We millennials are probably the first generation to have been indoctrinated by leftist propaganda from every angle: the media, religion, education, etc. It's even worse for the generation after us.

There's a conservatism out there amongst Millennials, it's a different kind of conservatism from Reagan/Bush/GWB, not reaganomics, not compassionate conservatism, it's something else that we don't quite have a name for yet. Trump has tapped into it pretty well and has a boiler plate for it, but I don't know if it's ripe enough yet to win the presidency and many downward offices this election. And while Trump is a larger-than-life billionaire needed to ignite this realignment in right-wing politics, for those same reasons and reasons regarding his history, he's probably not electable in the general election this fall. I do think there will be future candidates who will follow in the footsteps of what Trump is laying down here, less personally flawed candidates who could achieve wider appeal, so there is hope for the future.

If there's any hope for countering the upcoming leftward swing in politics and culture, I would agree it's not going to be from the right wing in it's current form. The new right wing coalition will be a mix of Ron Paul style libertarians and nationalists/nativists. I don't see the religious right and social conservatism being a part of this. I can't imagine too many people born in the 90s or after having conservatives views on LGBT issues, drugs, sex, and such.

[Gmac]

I've been trailing this topic on the media for a while now too.

America has been growing apart for decades. American values aren't what it used to be, and the left hasn't been further from the right in 50 years. We're already in the middle of a civil war on the streets and on social media. It's the non-confrontational, suburban populations and silent majorities that are now starting to wake up and get involved. We disagree on too many important issues. Shit is getting heated. People are angry.

That anger is going to be unleashed at some point soon. It might be Cleveland at the RNC, or it could be a year or so out... but I envision a lot of extreme violence to come from our own against our own and it's not going to be good. Another democratic president of any form (whether it be Clinton, Bernie, or anyone else) would signify a complete disaster for our country and I mean that in the most sincere way. We've got to reign in the degenerates and extreme leftists. Rob them of every platform and voice. Defeat them on every front. America won't recover if we don't clean our own house... and that's notwithstanding the looming Muslim threat abroad. We need to unify now more than ever.

[Deepdiver]

I love how Bernie Sanders is forcing HRC to swing hard left when the Clinton success model was to campaign to the left and swing to the moderate middle for victory - that model has been shattered.

Bernie is a communist at heart and now calls himself a Dane style democratic socialist - almost as Oxymoronic as a compassionate serial murderer.

Obama raised Federal Income Taxes from 25% under GW to 38.5% plus a 3% surcharge for 41.5% plus an average 16% Obamacare tax and 16% social security and 6% medicare surcharge - and - now Bernie wants to raise the Federal Income Tax to a typical socialist confiscatory 58.5%... Obama drastically increased regulations to solve Global Warming and save the Earth for Islam and ISIS ...

The result under Obama has been a mass acceleration of offshoring of not only US Manufacturing, Pharmaceuticals, Medical Tourism Care and now services companies to much more friendly and cost effective business jurisdictions.

Now imagine the results from Feeling the BERN.

Do the math:

What does the following add up to?

58% plus 3% plus 16% plus 6% plus 16% plus 3% AMT = 102% Federal Tax bueden on Employers

Now tack on State, County, City, Town taxes; Workmen's Comp, Unemployment Insurance, State or City sales taxes and Income Taxes, Property Taxes, taxes on fuel, electricity, phones and cable...

You are pushing 150% taxes yet the Doe eyed Bernie gimme freebies lovers have a rational disconnect between the free money for everyone Bernie rhetoric and the reality of what will happen to the USA when the Berners implement their plans to Bern the last vestiges of US Small Businesses... if you tax over 100% of incomes there are NO profits to live on. Berners will all be moving back into their Mommies and Daddies basements or attics as there will be NO free market jobs created and only SJW government make work programs.

By contrast Trump's tax on ALL business from free lancers to multinationals will be a flat 15% and will cause a literal renaissance in USA jobs creation as the USA becomes one of the most Business Friendly places on the planet when Trump radically reduces the onerous Climate Change regulatory burden foisted on the USA by the America hating Obamunists.

If Bernie Mugabe loving socialists were to succeed the USA would become New Zimbabwe.

Liberal Idealists have a very severe time coping with reality.

[It_is_my_time]

I have long expected that the next Democrat move would be another Obama, but this time a Hispanic version. Speaking Spanish on the campaign trail and spreading the same empty rhetoric of "hope" that Obama spread.

I don't know anyone specifically that fits this description, but I am sure there are a few of them out there that will be ready by 2020 or 2024.

[blacknwhitespade]

(04-01-2016 04:01 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 01:48 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 01:12 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

If Trump does not win this election, a conservative man will never again be elected president in this country. Sadly, even if Trump does get elected, it might not even make a difference. We millennials are probably the first generation to have been indoctrinated by leftist propaganda from every angle: the media, religion, education, etc. It's even worse for the generation after us.

There's a conservatism out there amongst Millennials, it's a different kind of conservatism from Reagan/Bush/GWB, not reaganomics, not compassionate conservatism, it's something else that we don't quite have a name for yet. Trump has tapped into it pretty well and has a boiler plate for it, but I don't know if it's ripe enough yet to win the presidency and many downward offices this election. And while Trump is a larger-than-life billionaire needed to ignite this realignment in right-wing politics, for those same reasons and reasons regarding his history, he's probably not electable in the general election this fall. I do think there will be future candidates who will follow in the footsteps of what Trump is laying down here, less personally flawed candidates who could achieve wider appeal, so there is hope for the future.

If there's any hope for countering the upcoming leftward swing in politics and culture, I would agree it's not going to be from the right wing in it's current form. The new right wing coalition will be a mix of Ron Paul style libertarians and nationalists/nativists. I don't see the religious right and social conservatism being a part of this. I can't imagine too many people born in the 90s or after having conservatives views on LGBT issues, drugs, sex, and such.

I said 4 years ago that the future of the GOP was John Huntsman with some Ron Paul sprinkled in. I'm skeptical of that recipe now, and I have a feeling after Cleveland and the General Election, I'll be sure that won't be the future of the party, especially if the Bernie/de Blasio/Warren faction of the Democratic Party continues to gain prominence. The future of right-wing politics will be a sharp, common sense, rugged individualism, a vestige for anyone who doesn't feel comfortable with the progressive machine. This will include libertarians, nativists, religious/social conservatives, and certain pro-enterprise types. Fiscal and personal responsibility, common sense foreign policy, trade, and immigration, religious civil liberties, 1st and 2nd amendment rights, etc. The key is finding a coalition that can be broad enough to win elections, including the Presidency. Disapproval from many traditional GOPers aside, Trump has a gender gap, race gap, and a bit of an age gap. Perhaps he can shore up those gaps with his VP choice and however he choose to pivot towards the general election. A future opposition party to an increasingly leftist Democratic party will have to bring in more females and non-whites. The GOPe has actually made some efforts at this by promoting people like Rubio, Ayotte, Steele, etc. If they play their cards right, a future GOP could pull in a surprising variety of people alienated from the excesses of leftists.

[Libertas]

It's a realigning election. We're overdue, so it's going to get heated.

My opinion is that the new GOP will be a party animated by the spirits of Andrew Jackson and Theodore Roosevelt. Their focus will be on an "American folk" nationalism that is skeptical of both big government and crony capitalism. Questions over taxation and regulation won't be axiomatic but rather if they make sense. The Democrats will be animated by the ghosts of Franklin Roosevelt and William Jennings Bryan. They'll focus questions of, to them, economic fairness economics and disproportionate racial outcomes of certain policies.

I have a feeling that both the religious right and religious left - SJW's will be expelled from their respective parties at some point. We're sort of seeing the beginnings of that now on the right.

But maybe that's too optimistic.

[Leonard D Neubache]

I think a lot of people here are putting the cart before the horse.

"If Trump fails then etc etc etc", or, "if Hillary wins then etc etc etc."

The fact of the matter is that Trump didn't create a political movement. He just put a circle around it and gave it a democratic vehicle.

The idea that if Trump loses then his supporters are simply going to go home for 8 years or indeed forever is crazy talk. This movement of centrist nationalism is building, with or without a voting booth.

The other claim that if Trump loses this election that America will simply become a brown nation now and forever is also short-sighted. It's born of the notion that the USA will outlast the very sun that warms our planet, an assumption that survives no serious scrutiny.

The flyover states are very white and they will not go quietly into the night simply because Washington DC holds a knife to the throat of the beloved union. If the east and west coast were jettisoned then White-Republican America would have a rough trot for a few decades, but Black/Brown-Democrat America would utterly implode in short order.

[Fast Eddie]

(04-02-2016 03:37 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

I think a lot of people here are putting the cart before the horse.

"If Trump fails then etc etc etc", or, "if Hillary wins then etc etc etc."

The fact of the matter is that Trump didn't create a political movement. He just put a circle around it and gave it a democratic vehicle.

The idea that if Trump loses then his supporters are simply going to go home for 8 years or indeed forever is crazy talk. This movement of centrist nationalism is building, with or without a voting booth.

The other claim that if Trump loses this election that America will simply become a brown nation now and forever is also short-sighted. It's born of the notion that the USA will outlast the very sun that warms our planet, an assumption that survives no serious scrutiny.

The flyover states are very white and they will not go quietly into the night simply because Washington DC holds a knife to the throat of the beloved union. If the east and west coast were jettisoned then White-Republican America would have a rough trot for a few decades, but Black/Brown-Democrat America would utterly implode in short order.

The non-flyover states were also very white, until they weren't. And they went "dark" very quietly. Uber "hard core" Texas is one of the most demographically changed states in the union, it's literally just 2 or 3 election cycles away from turning democrat because of the Hispanic tsunami, and no one there made or makes a peep about it. What makes you think the milquetoast white cucks in the midwest are going to put up any greater resistance than the states that went before them?

I don't want to say this in the Trump thread, but I feel that Trump's chances of becoming president are less than 1 in 5 right now. Our best case realistic scenario is a Hillary presidency neutered by continued GOP control of congress. Worst case scenario is Sanders in the oval office and democrats in control of both the house and senate, with the addition of the inevitably hard-bolshevik supreme court justice such a situation would entail.

Right now, I'm actually more concerned with the democratic race than the Republican one because I'm more or less convinced no matter what happens going forward, the democrats are winning the presidency. I just hope it will be Hillary and not Sanders.

[Sherman]

(04-01-2016 06:02 PM)Libertas Wrote:  

It's a realigning election. We're overdue, so it's going to get heated.

My opinion is that the new GOP will be a party animated by the spirits of Andrew Jackson and Theodore Roosevelt. Their focus will be on an "American folk" nationalism that is skeptical of both big government and crony capitalism. Questions over taxation and regulation won't be axiomatic but rather if they make sense. The Democrats will be animated by the ghosts of Franklin Roosevelt and William Jennings Bryan. They'll focus questions of, to them, economic fairness economics and disproportionate racial outcomes of certain policies.

I have a feeling that both the religious right and religious left - SJW's will be expelled from their respective parties at some point. We're sort of seeing the beginnings of that now on the right.

But maybe that's too optimistic.

I don't see Trump as skeptical of the concept of "big" government. He wants to take government and make it more efficient and have it work for the people. The way I see it, we have two parties with politicians who serve the donor class, i.e. the elites and globalists. Ordinary voters have no effect on policy. So the US gets involved in perpetual wars to secure power for the elites, but this actually has no benefit for the workers who suffer.

Under both parties, the middle class have their jobs taken away and they are pushed into poverty. The only difference between the parties is that the Democrats are willing to throw the losers a few bones so they can survive, while the Republicans just want them to die and go away. Under this system, it actually makes sense for a white blue-collar worker to be a Democrat. Trump needs to destroy the Republican party and replace it by a national socialist party, which Trump basically is. Then it will be a party protecting the country and patriots from globalism and crony capitalism.

[Hannibal]

An elderly loser and his band of degenerates.

Sanders accomplished jack shit as a senator for what, 23 years?

He only has 300k net worth and he gets paid 150k a year to lecture people like me about how white people don't know what it's like to be poor.

I cannot believe there are actual voters out there willing to put this guy in charge. He can't even balance his own checkbook and they want to give this communist half (or more) of their paychecks?

There's an infographic around here about who spends the most on votes. Trump spends the least and Bernie spends, unsurprisingly, the most by a fairly large margin. Who knew, socialists are terrible at managing money.

[germanico]

(04-01-2016 11:16 AM)Avarence Wrote:  

Notice how the only bar getting larger is Hispanics.

Justsayin'

[temsike]

In the USA money talks far too loud. Again. One of the USA's two political parties is going to have to either elevate the vote's voice or diminish money's.