[Centurion]

I strongly suspect Americans, or at least Americans on the internet and those from the Midwest(and likely the South- though I haven't met many) are much, much friendlier and more open than New Zealanders(Aucklanders, at least, but I don't think it's much different in other cities). This was really hard for me to grasp at first because Roosh, Winston Wu and others have all complained about how closed off and unfriendly Americans are, but also how many people I've heard in real life have said how *friendly* Kiwis are, and a lot of them seem genuine. Probably the guys/girls who say it with the most conviction are Scandinavians.

In my personal experience, I've rarely if ever had "real" Kiwi friends or felt a genuine connection that wasn't as a 13 year old or younger in primary/intermediate school. The exception was a group of people who invited me to a warehouse party but later flaked when I tried to reconnect with them. Granted, I've been depressed and I haven't been trying to make friends all my life. But with Americans, having met two groups I was able to bond both times. One group was missionaries from some random church, from all over. But some girls had tattoos/piercings so it's not like they were goody good, just typical Christians.

The other was just recently. A week or so ago I was in a Facebook group about rock climbing and stuff and in my newsfeed there was someone promoting something about outdoor activity trips etc in New Zealand and had posted their new FB group with a bit of a cool "sales" pitch so I figured what the hey. Then she posted about going out on a trip with a few people and I thought that was fun, exchanged details, and went along to that shit.

When I first met up with them it was soon apparent they were American(from the Midwest). I then was thinking how obvious it is that they were American- no Kiwi I know would ever organise fun semi intimate things like this with strangers. For a long time I thought this was my fault in that things were happening but Kiwis wouldn't invite me- but it was becoming more and more apparent that things weren't happening- and NZ culture just seems really simple and boring(and the things they do do are in closed social circles).

Also, barely anyone had commented on the post and no one else other than the group of friends the Americans already knew were going. Partially with my own prompting, but in a way natural conversation, they did seem to think Kiwis were less open and more flaky and less likely to go to do activities with strangers than Americans were. Which did seem to explain why I was struggling so hard. They've been here for a few years and were working on a startup to help organise outdoor activities. Also on flakiness- there was *one* other (Kiwi) girl who said she would be coming along but then when the organiser messaged her wondering if she had gear, she just didn't reply back. I asked about it and she said it seemed really common for Kiwis to do this but less common for Americans to.

So it seems that it's standard for Americans to be trusting of strangers and to go along with them for activities, while it's more standard for Kiwis to go along with their closed cliques and never even consider doing things with strangers. Does anyone else have a similar experience? Why do so many manosphere websites say how unfriendly Americans are when I've felt the opposite? Are the Americans who don't travel different? Is NZ dating/social culture just royally fucked and the US is amazing in comparison?

[Rush87]

That's one thing I will say about Americans… They are friendly as they come. Maybe it's because we're foreigners though. Being part Kiwi myself, I would agree that New Zealanders can be the polar opposite. Rude and arrogant.

[Il Bersagliere]

As much as I'd like to wail on midwesterners for being self-righteous and pretentious, the OP is right. They tend to be a lot more friendlier than New Zealanders. Kiwis tend to be closed off and highly arrogant even though most of the guys are beta incel losers and the women are generally fat fucks. You'd think there'd be some humility in the fucking culture, but nooo.

I'm sure if you search hard enough you can find some genuine people from NZ, but those are probably folks who have been raised abroad or worldly. You guys can keep on searching though, because you'll never catch me near that island (except maybe Invercargill).

[Quaestum]

I can't contribute much in terms of evaluating the friendliness of Americans as I've only met around 10 of them in my life and never have been to the States either; however having lived in NZ as a foreigner for almost three years now I can say something about the Kiwis.

Many Kiwis are really open towards foreigners, there's no doubt about this. I've been given rides on a couple of occasions where nobody in Europe would have blinked an eye on me, people say "hello" on the street (outside the big cities) and will often start a conversation with you, ie when waiting for food at a takeaway. This is very pleasant coming from a "socially cold" country.

Now I'm not sure whether this applies to their own people too; having worked here for 2+ years now and been part of the society, there's also a shitload of people who are outright unfriendly or simply not interested in dealing with anyone than their close friends/family, which lines up with Centurion's experiences. I also wasn't able to make any close local friends, which in part is because of me as I hardly ever go out in the evenings, but also because the few mid-twenties people who are around rather seem to stick to themselves since I did suggest shared activities to a few people. I wonder whether this would be different in one of NZ's few bigger cities such as Dunedin or Wellington.

[CynicalContrarian]

I find a similar level of behaviour with Sydney Sider's in Australia.
Not immediately friendly if you're not in their particular social circle (not to say they can't be friendly, just that they're not inclined to go out of their way).
Quite reluctant to venture beyond their particular niche / corner of the city & their social circle.
Plus, even those who join social groups from say Meet-Up.com, can't be relied upon to attend an event despite setting a yes to the RSVP.
Or their communications are usually centred on themselves rather than the group or the event.

[scotian]

First off remember that the US is a country of well over 300 million and NZ is less than 5 million, so its harder to generalize the US folk. I've been in hostels where two Kiwis randomly met each other and the first question they asked was "where did you go to school?" and sure enough through a few degrees of separation, they knew each other, that doesn't happen too often with people from the US. This probably happens in Oz too and for the UK folk, they have the whole class based thing going on with accents, schools, etc.

Now, as far as friendliness goes, it's a cultural thing. From what I've observed by traveling and meeting people from all over the Anglosphere, there's two camps: the North Americans and the Brits/Irish/Aussies/Kiwis

Us Yanks and Canucks are very friendly, its borderline phony but when you meet us, we're generally pretty open and friendly. To us, everything is "awesome", "so cool", "oh man that's fucking rad!!!". Meanwhile the Brits, especially the English and to a lesser extent the other ones I mentioned in the above camp are less gregarious and out going. An Englishman is less likely to blow smoke up your ass and tell you how cool your latest adventure, project, etc is. He'll tell you to your face that he thinks its lame, maybe call you a cunt and then turn around and walk away.

Of course there's plenty of exceptions to the above, some of the coolest, chill people I've met were Brits and some of the biggest dickheads I know are Canadian. But generally, there's a distinct cultural difference where us North Americans can be very out going and friendly even if they don't like you and the Brits/Aussies will just tell you to fuck off. An example of this is a subject that's been discussed often on here: the British accent carries a lot more weight in the US/Canada than a North American accent does in the UK when gaming women abroad and meeting new people in general.

[Foolsgo1d]

Whoa there Scotian. American accents in London may not be so rare but if you stepped up North I guarantee you there are plenty of women who'd melt on hearing a nice yank accent.

There was an American in my Lacrosse team and there was another at Leeds Met. Girls were easy for them, just as a decent looking Brit in the US would have it.

[Fortis]

I've only met two Kiwis in my life and they were both really stand-up guys. I was new to my city and the dude showed me around to all the good spots to eat, drink and hang out. He still regularly hits me up to chill. So I really can't talk trash.
The other guy was just a cool dude to drink a few beers with and talk shit. I can't really say I've had a bad experience with Kiwis.

They can be sort of closed off but they seem to open up to you once they figure you're cool and can take a joke. They remind me of Australians in that they love a good joke and can heckle quite well. Might just be a cultural thing.

I'd say the friendliest people I've met have been from Australia for sure. Great people.

[Mentavious]

Yeh Australian, Kiwis, and Brits have been the most open and friendly to me when I've traveled.

[Onto]

The US is a very big place and people will differ between regions (North/South/East/West/Center) and then they will differ again based upon the size of the city or if they are from the country. Then from there you will have differences just based on the kind of person they are and their age.

I've never been to Australia but hung out with several when I was in the Philippines. The older ex-pats (60+) were more reserved and took longer to open up, but once the did they were friendly both individually and in a group. The younger ones were sailors in the Navy, and individually were more friendly and open right away, but in a group and drunk they could be real unfriendly assholes.

My experience is a small sample size, but I do think age, present circumstances (on vacation or local), and if they are alone or in a pack will affect how friendly people are. I've noticed people tend to behave differently when they are alone vs in a group.

[Centurion]

A few comments on things.

Yes I do think Kiwis like talking to foreigners and like being open on a superficial level. It's probably more than they do to locals. But I think many foreigners say to me they've found it hard to make friends with local Kiwis, and a lot that do are mainly the guys they work with, I didn't really notice many of them having Kiwi friends outside of work. So there's a difference between being friendly in a casual way and a way that makes you feel like you're truly friends with them. That's what I meant by Americans seeming more friendly- they seemed more real and less superficial, believe it or not. But many people say the opposite- maybe it's either that Kiwis are more friendly to foreigners or that I just have a real "American" personality.

That's really trippy to me that people won't start a conversation with you in Europe. Which part? Weirdly, while I still talk to some people on the street in NZ, I've thought of NZers as cold to strangers, but maybe in other places it's much worse.

It's not surprising that Australia/UK would be about as cliquey as NZ.

@Scotian It's really interesting hearing about that. Probably from stereotype I do think UK/Aus guys would definitely be "mean" in that way. I don't believe NZers are- I think Kiwis mock the Poms/Aussies for that. I do feel that I've got a "connection" with Americans in a way I don't with other Anglo nationalities- although I'm not socially aware enough to know for sure it's not "faking" or blowing smoke up my ass. My suspicion is it's real that they're open.

@Fortis/Menta/Onto I think you guys are right in that Kiwi guys by themselves or in a small group of friends especially overseas/travelling would really show you around and be hospitable. Also in the small towns they tend to be really inviting, so I've heard. When they are in a "pack" or you trying to break into their group it does seem really difficult to do it as that's when I said in the OP- they just don't seem to care about doing things with strangers.

[Ethan Hunt]

It's funny this thread should appear. Just saw my dad last week and he just came back from a month long holiday to NZ. He said it was a great holiday and would recommend going. Not once did he mention the friendliness of the people.

[spi]

Being from NZ myself, I've found it to be the opposite (well from my traveling point of view anyway)

When I encounter Americans, it depends (as I suppose it does with any group). Sometimes they all seem to be having a good time already, they don't need another addition to their group.

However I once met a group of siblings traveling (two sisters and a brother) and when I met one sister on her own walking around Bratislava, she wasn't really talkative. Later at a train station when I met all three, her two siblings were quite talkative and friendly.

However whenever I encounter another kiwi while traveling, quite often it quickly escalates to 'yea man, we should get lunch after the walking tour' and you become best friends for that day. Only in two instances I think, I got a cold reaction from a fellow Kiwi (both females).

I think perhaps when you're traveling on your own, perhaps (well I do anyway) you try harder and put more effort into trying to meet new people. Whereas when I'm already with others, since I'm not by myself, I usually don't really bother that much. It has happened every now and then and it is quite cool to be able to bring people who are traveling alone into your group.

I've found South Africans, Australians and Kiwis (being the English speaking southern hemisphere) all seem to connect on some level as strangers when traveling.

[Centurion]

It's not necessarily that I'd get a cold reaction from Kiwis but more that it's a cordial but superficial type of reaction. It's likely in part because I've got a very American personality. It seems if you have a UK/Aus/NZ(probably SA too) type of personality you wouldn't have the same experience as me. Probably Kiwis when travelling also would be more open than they do back at home.

[bootyhuntah]

One thing that struck me as very different between Americans or Kiwis/Aussies was not necessarily the difference in friendliness per se, but the difference in the value of "community" between us yanks and the aussies/kiwis.

Example: Americans typically are slightly more wary of helping a distressed person pulled over to the side of the road in their car. Many think of this situation, "It's not my problem," or "That is what AAA (roadside assistance service) is for," or "I'm not helping them because they could be a psychopathic murderer." But more often than not, we usually do not think to investigate why exactly someone is pulled over on the side of the road with their car. Whereas in NZ or OZ, I found that generally people are more concerned for this same distressed person in their car on the side of the road. I was this person on more than a few cases (once with a flat tire, other times just lost), and within seconds in one case, somebody stopped to make sure I was OK and didn't need any help. I've never received unsolicited help like this living in the USA.

Also, I find that people from vastly different social strata rarely mingle or socialize in the USA; you typically won't see the CEO of a company having a friendly chat with the janitor of their office building. Whereas in Australia, I find that social strata is typically less of a factor for determining who you socialize with, if that makes sense. On a related note, Aussies/kiwis seem to generally have less self-importance than American folks who can be guilty of taking themselves too seriously and socially shunning people of lower social stratas.

Friendliness can be a tricky thing to define across cultures. However, there is an overwhelming sense of community or mateship in OZ and NZ that is generally lacking in American culture. In Australia and NZ, the common man is generally engaged and looked after by his fellow mates, regardless of social status. I find that in the USA, there is much less of a feeling of obligation for helping the community, and social status has a much higher value when it comes to determining who you socialize with. In structured social situations, many Americans are actually very warm, outgoing and amiable; although, at times we can be standoffish when it comes to engaging a stranger and this can be perceived as indifference or unfriendly sometimes for the reasons mentioned above.

[Centurion]

@bootyhuntah
I guess it's probably true that Americans are more weary of helping distressed people or only mix with their own social class. With social class it's really because Aus/NZ doesn't really have social class- the more cynical part of me says because they all want to drag each other down in a milder form of Jante Law(I think they call it Tall Poppy Syndrome here). While Americans believe in the American Dream and are very workaholic.

I can't say my experiences line up much with what you're saying, although I'm talking about something different. In terms of a "connection" or real friendship Americans do it better. Mainly because Aus/NZers don't seem to be open to actually being friends with strangers.

[Quaestum]

(03-13-2016 04:26 PM)Centurion Wrote:  

Yes I do think Kiwis like talking to foreigners and like being open on a superficial level. It's probably more than they do to locals. But I think many foreigners say to me they've found it hard to make friends with local Kiwis, and a lot that do are mainly the guys they work with, I didn't really notice many of them having Kiwi friends outside of work. So there's a difference between being friendly in a casual way and a way that makes you feel like you're truly friends with them.

That's exactly my observation too (or I'm just not as social yet as I should be). After two years I've got one guy at work now which whom I might do something outside of work, however he's a father of two so that will be pretty limited too. I'm attending a social event with some graduates at my workplace tomorrow, two of them brand new. They both live in different towns but I'm curious to see whether I'm able to make any connections with them, one of the guys seems cool. Apart from that I don't really know any local Kiwis, let alone in my age.

Centurion Wrote:

That's really trippy to me that people won't start a conversation with you in Europe. Which part? Weirdly, while I still talk to some people on the street in NZ, I've thought of NZers as cold to strangers, but maybe in other places it's much worse.

Germany, but it depends where you live of course. I suppose it's less likely in the cities, and we're not really known for being outgoing when meeting someone - same as the Scandinavians really. This has been mentioned on a couple of occasions here over in the Travel forum.

[The Beast1]

Exotic foreigner effect. You'll get love as a foreigner in an entirely new place.

As an American who grew up in the Midwest, i'd disagree with you on your thesis that Americans in that part of the country are nicer.