[Anonybrit]

I have always thought that facial looks and swagger were basically what gets you girls but I am more and more starting to think that t's actually a guy's physique that plays the primary role in sexual attraction with most girls these days.

Facially I'm alright, probably 7/10, my colouring and features are quite unique (fair skin black hair blue eyes) so if a girl is into that I can go right up to an 8 or 9 in her eyes.. facially.

But I have always been very slim. I'm somewhere between 5'11 and 6 foot, which is fine, height has never been an issue, but I am pretty damn slim (65-70kg). I tried bulking up last year by going to the gym almost daily and it did have a noticable affect, but mostly just tone and that has significantly faded.

So I am starting to think that I should just go on a serious bulk regimen. Not just muscle but adipose too. Girls seem to just want "big" guys these days, even if it's not all muscle. Particularly black girls, who are my favourite flavour it has to be said. I just want to change my body from being slight to being big, I feel like a big guy trapped inside of a skinny body. My attitude and mindset is alpha (albeit a soppily romantic alpha) but my body doesn't reflect this and at the age of 22 this is what's holding me back from enjoying the kind of life I want to lead.

So yeah what do you guys think about all of this? Take me under your wings yo, brother needs some guidance

[Dash Global]

working out helps no doubt. as a man u should want to be strong and well sculpted.

at 6ft u need to weigh 200+. Im 5'9.5 and weigh 185, which im gonna try to bulk up to 195-205.

[thegmanifesto]

I think the muscle thing is one of the most over talked about aspects of the pick up artist world.

I really don't think it matters at all (as long as you are not disgustingly skinny or super fat).

The super yoked look might work well at low end bars and Vegas pool parties but out side of that, not really. (And then you are competing with other guys with the exact same style, so it seems like a wash).

It's kind of like money, it can't hurt.

I am really wracking my brain to think of any guys I know who go lead with the "super in-shape guy Game" and do well. I know way more heavy partiers that do way better than those guys.

Then again, I don't really roll to Jersey shore/Vegas pool party type spots.

At the beach in Southern California, the super huge guy look is definitely out. Surfer/boxer in shape works better.

[Anonybrit]

Yeah I'm not trying to be hench, just "big". Girls seem to look instantly at the dude that takes up the most physical space, particularly black girls man, they are obsessed with it.

Ok so I'm 5'11" and about 67kg right now, with some good-but-nothing-special tone, if I dedicate this summer to just EATING as much as I possibly can, what can I expect to happen to my physique by September?

From that point on I can focus on just maintaining good tone, but I basically just want to be a big guy. I feel like a big guy and my body doesn't reflect that, it's the one thing that knocks my confidence.

[UrbanNerd]

Eh?

All you really need is to stay toned. A good "spit game" can overcome a lot and money does not hurt.

[Anonybrit]

You say that, but slim guys are often ruled out, anywhere from average to built is pretty much even but skinny is pretty much as bad as obese with most girls.

[Caligula]

(06-20-2011 11:16 AM)Anonybrit Wrote:  

You say that, but slim guys are often ruled out, anywhere from average to built is pretty much even but skinny is pretty much as bad as obese with most girls.

Where do you get this from? I'm skinny and have never found this to be an issue.

[Gmac]

(06-20-2011 09:47 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I am really wracking my brain to think of any guys I know who go lead with the "super in-shape guy Game" and do well. I know way more heavy partiers that do way better than those guys.

The closest I can think of is my buddy VK, though I wouldn't consider him a meathead by any means. His body plays a huge role in his ability to attract girls (he definitely gets approached more too), but it's his skill in game that sets him apart from the true meatheads.

I gotta disagree with Dash. 6'0 and 200 lbs+? That's pretty big, a far cry from an "in-shape" benchmark. I think having a bit of muscle and (like we discussed in one of the other threads recently) a flat stomach is the key. A 6 pack isn't necessary, but can definitely help.

I've got a fairly small frame as it is, but at my skinniest (and I mean "scrawny") I was about 6'0 and 145. At my biggest (aka overweight, but proportioned) I was about 190 & 6'2 with not a whole lot of muscle. Now, I'm barely 6'2 @ just over 170 and in the best shape in my life. I'm still bulking up a bit more, but if you ask me the confidence you get from being in great shape far outweighs the perks of having a really built body.

(Now, as for online dating goes, looks/physique are probably your most important feature)

[Anonybrit]

(06-20-2011 12:08 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

Where do you get this from? I'm skinny and have never found this to be an issue.

Maybe it's a black girl thing? I tend to go for the thick, big bootied, big tittied black chicks and this requirement is very nearly universal amongst them.

Bare in mind I am not talking about becoming a meat head, I am skinny, talking about becoming a guy you look at say "he's a big dude" but that's it. Not looking to become a BB.

[Screwston]

I didn't start working out until recently and never had a problem with my skinny ass. I'd rather be slim and muscular like bruce lee than some huge tree. I'm 5'8 and about 160 pounds. Why are you stuck on this mentality that girls only like big guys and won't fuck with skinny ones?

I've said it before on here how black girls have always had a thing for me since middle school. Maybe its your style that's holding you back.

[Tony Snow25]

I noticed those super yoked dudes on Jersery shore were hooking up with some foul scaliwags. I agree with G, dudes that have an athletic physique like guards in basketball or boxers are better off than some steroid monkeys.

[Anonybrit]

(06-20-2011 12:45 PM)houston Wrote:  

I didn't start working out until recently and never had a problem with my skinny ass. I'd rather be slim and muscular like bruce lee than some huge tree. I'm 5'8 and about 160 pounds. Why are you stuck on this mentality that girls only like big guys and won't fuck with skinny ones?

I've said it before on here how black girls have always had a thing for me since middle school. Maybe its your style that's holding you back.

Well I dress smart casual, I have the mysterious romantic persona down pat and I'm a student doctor so.. style isn't really an issue xD To be honest i have never had an issue getting a girl I want, but my last relationship (3+ years) ended badly and my ex said some nasty things that have rocked my confidence so it's probably down to that really..

But yeah I am just after looking athletic and having more presence.

[thegmanifesto]

"but my last relationship (3+ years) ended badly and my ex said some nasty things that have rocked my confidence so it's probably down to that really.."

And...we get to the bottom of it.

Don't sweat it holmes, the cure-all is to swoop new girls.

Always has been, always will be.

[UrbanNerd]

(06-20-2011 02:24 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"but my last relationship (3+ years) ended badly and my ex said some nasty things that have rocked my confidence so it's probably down to that really.."

And...we get to the bottom of it.

Don't sweat it holmes, the cure-all is to swoop new girls.

Always has been, always will be.

Yeah, the more women you interact with, you will see how their preferences vary. I know women who do NOT like the body-builder types. If I were to take a "shot in the dark" on what I "think" most women like it would be the basketball point-guard type.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-20-2011 09:32 AM)Anonybrit Wrote:  

But I have always been very slim. I'm somewhere between 5'11 and 6 foot, which is fine, height has never been an issue, but I am pretty damn slim (65-70kg). I tried bulking up last year by going to the gym almost daily and it did have a noticable affect, but mostly just tone and that has significantly faded.

I just want to change my body from being slight to being big, I feel like a big guy trapped inside of a skinny body. My attitude and mindset is alpha (albeit a soppily romantic alpha) but my body doesn't reflect this and at the age of 22 this is what's holding me back from enjoying the kind of life I want to lead.

I feel the exact same way, that my body doesn't reflect my strong frame of mind. If you feel like more size will make you more confident, it probably will. It has for me. Your swagger will improve, and your presence will grow.

I have a gangly frame, was 130 at 6'1" in high school, 145 prior to lifting, and now at ~190. I'm guessing you have a small frame too. Given that, you will probably never be "too big," without the aid of steroids. You could get to 85 kilos, and still not look that big.

Girls want a man who makes them feel feminine. That's hard when the guy is the same size or smaller. A strong vibe can overcome it somewhat, but the less you have to overcome, the greater the chance of success.

When you want to know what a girl likes, look at the guys she wants. Look at the alphas in her sphere. For black girls, 50 Cent is probably a good benchmark:



For the average white girl, something like the dude from the Bachelor:


The bachelor is easily 200 lbs on a 6' frame, and lean. 50's a little thicker. Anyone who doesn't think these guys are, relatively muscular, is plain wrong*. The bachelor is far more muscular than the average guy, yet he's nowhere near looking "too" muscular. And it's still a body that requires a ton of training to achieve, for most guys. He still looks good in a suit too. I'd guess a 42-44" chest is ideal.

*When you say "big," plenty of people think of say, 50 Cent plus 20 lbs or more. That's why they knock it.

[dk902]

I'm with G and others in that I don't think the meathead look is be all and end all. Nonetheless, I think putting on a few kilos of lean muscle never hurt nobody.

But being proud of your physique and comfortable in your own body has so many benefits. So your game and confidence will automatically improve once you have the body you want. Your testosterone levels will be higher and you feel better about yourself, what's not to like? Currently I'm in good shape and in decent size 190lbs, 5"10, but there's always room for improvement.

My advice: do plenty of reading on the subject, as you would do here with game. I've been lifting weights for about 4 years and there is no substitute for plenty of hours spent under the bar, as with game being in the field.

Also to bulk up it really isn't about doing isolation exercises, e.g. dumb-bell curls, tricep kick backs. You want to go hard and heavy...base your routine around heavy compound lifts..bench press, deadlift, squats and military press. These should be the staple of any gym goer. Don't be one of those guys who doesn't do his legs, a balanced physique is everything. Diet is also key, something I could improve on myself, as it's not always 100% clean. Dips and chins are also great exercises.

The main problem I think with so-called 'skinny' guys is they are worried about 'losing their six pack.' This is inevitable if you're bulking you will lose some 'tone'. I think women would much prefer a bigger physique than skinny and six pack - think big round shoulders and a good back as opposed to a textbook six-pack. I can't stress how much benefits there are to regularly lifting heavy weights, I can't understand why someone wouldn't.

Some good resources for you:

Elite FTS - for beginners, intermediate and advanced lifters alike. Some solid non-bs advice on there.

T-Muscle - for more intermediate and advanced lifters, don't be put off by the bodybuilding focus, this is a very good resource.

A routine I would highly recommend - Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 'How to build Raw Strength' this can be found on elitefts as a pdf (Strength = Size). I've been doing it for a year and a half and have gotten great results, I deadlifted 420lbs for 3 reps the other day.

Read anything Dave Tate writes.

Last thing, if you want to bulk you can't go wrong by eating everything in sight, seriously. As you're body needs huge amounts of calories.

I don't want to hi-jack the thread but that's my two cents, happy to give more pointers if anyone is interested.

[thegmanifesto]

I guess there are two issues at work here:

1. If being bigger will make you feel better about yourself.
2. If women find bigger guys attractive.

If it will make you feel better about yourself, and give you more confidence, then by all means, do it.

If you think girls will be more attracted to you solely on that issue, I disagree (although, some subsets or groups my find it attractive, and like I said before, I don't run in those circles).

[Anonybrit]

Well you guys are mentioning the basketball figure a lot, I'm not American but I think that probably corresponds more or less the the footballer figure here in Europe, and that's what I'm talking about really. I do not want to look like a bodybuilder, I know more girls that hate that look than like it, but I'm pretty sure, deep down, all girls would pick athletic over skinny. It will improve my confidence and if you saw my frame I think you'd agree, but it's going to take some work because I am naturally slim.

It's hard though, I work long hours all the time.

In terms of my ex, she brushes up to an 8, maybe even 9. She can have near enough anyone she wants and since I left her and fucked up her self esteem that's exactly what she has been doing, and I've been sitting on my ass moping for 6 months so things have got to change. That said I don't party (not in this town anyway) and I don't have any interest in caucasian girls (this town is 99% white) so I am confined online right now, I have about 7 or 8 girls ready to pull the trigger on for a meet (all attractive, smart and DTF) but these confidence issues are holding me back.

[dk902]

Yes I agree, I don't think you have to look like a bodybuilder, but their techniques and methods for working out are definitely not to be ignored. I think there is a definite misconception regarding this area.

"It's hard though, I work long hours all the time."

Sounds like an excuse to me mate, if you want something badly, make time for it, it's the only way you can succeed. There are days when I feel fucked up, tired and stressed and I don't want to exercise, but I force myself to and I feel 100% better for it after. I think those sort of occasions in life can teach you a lot, from going to the gym I have learnt a lot about mental toughness, dedicating yourself to something and perseverance - made me realise that with hard work much is possible. You may have to make sacrifices along the way but if it's want you want, then go after it, that's what separates the men from the boys.

Good luck.

[Anonybrit]

(06-20-2011 04:07 PM)dk902 Wrote:  

Yes I agree, I don't think you have to look like a bodybuilder, but their techniques and methods for working out are definitely not to be ignored. I think there is a definite misconception regarding this area.

"It's hard though, I work long hours all the time."

Sounds like an excuse to me mate, if you want something badly, make time for it, it's the only way you can succeed. There are days when I feel fucked up, tired and stressed and I don't want to exercise, but I force myself to and I feel 100% better for it after. I think those sort of occasions in life can teach you a lot, from going to the gym I have learnt a lot about mental toughness, dedicating yourself to something and perseverance - made me realise that with hard work much is possible. You may have to make sacrifices along the way but if it's want you want, then go after it, that's what separates the men from the boys.

Good luck.

... Can't argue with that. Let's do it.

[UgSlayer]

At your frame, there's a pretty big difference between 65 and 70 kg. Honestly, being skinny isn't that big of a problem when it comes to girls. Some girls do have a physical type that they can't get away from, but taht is a very small percentage.

But I hear what you're saying about trying to get bigger. My best advice is to do compound exercises and eat a lot. If you're trying to put on a lot of mass, it's not really what you eat, but how much. So every chance you get, stuff your face.

Also, compound exercises such as squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, cleans, jerks, and basically anything where you use multiple large muscle groups increase your body's production of testosterone increase your potential for muscle growth.

Cut out any cardio, eat a lot, and lift heavy using the exercises listed above for a while.

Re: time constraints: you'll spend a lot less time in the gym trying to put on mass than trying to cut out fat. You shouldn't rest more than 2 minutes in between sets and you should be out of the gym in under an hour and a half (most of the time you'll be out of the gym in under an hour). Any more than that, and you're wasting time.

I wish you luck

[speakeasy]

Putting on some strength and bulk is never a bad idea. The stronger you look, the less likely you are to get fucked with. You don't have to look like an Olympic weight lifter or anything. There's an excellent thread in the lifestyle subforum on lifting weights.

I don't know why this whole "skinny" thing has been such a fad lately. Skinny guys wearing skinny jeans and tight v-necks...10 years ago people would've assumed such guys are gay.

[Tim9000]

[Deleted]

[Chad Daring]

(06-20-2011 02:34 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(06-20-2011 09:32 AM)Anonybrit Wrote:  

But I have always been very slim. I'm somewhere between 5'11 and 6 foot, which is fine, height has never been an issue, but I am pretty damn slim (65-70kg). I tried bulking up last year by going to the gym almost daily and it did have a noticable affect, but mostly just tone and that has significantly faded.

I just want to change my body from being slight to being big, I feel like a big guy trapped inside of a skinny body. My attitude and mindset is alpha (albeit a soppily romantic alpha) but my body doesn't reflect this and at the age of 22 this is what's holding me back from enjoying the kind of life I want to lead.

I feel the exact same way, that my body doesn't reflect my strong frame of mind. If you feel like more size will make you more confident, it probably will. It has for me. Your swagger will improve, and your presence will grow.

I have a gangly frame, was 130 at 6'1" in high school, 145 prior to lifting, and now at ~190. I'm guessing you have a small frame too. Given that, you will probably never be "too big," without the aid of steroids. You could get to 85 kilos, and still not look that big.

Girls want a man who makes them feel feminine. That's hard when the guy is the same size or smaller. A strong vibe can overcome it somewhat, but the less you have to overcome, the greater the chance of success.

When you want to know what a girl likes, look at the guys she wants. Look at the alphas in her sphere. For black girls, 50 Cent is probably a good benchmark:



For the average white girl, something like the dude from the Bachelor:


The bachelor is easily 200 lbs on a 6' frame, and lean. 50's a little thicker. Anyone who doesn't think these guys are, relatively muscular, is plain wrong*. The bachelor is far more muscular than the average guy, yet he's nowhere near looking "too" muscular. And it's still a body that requires a ton of training to achieve, for most guys. He still looks good in a suit too. I'd guess a 42-44" chest is ideal.

*When you say "big," plenty of people think of say, 50 Cent plus 20 lbs or more. That's why they knock it.

This is a great point.

Another point that needs to be made was shown well between Dash and Gmac. Dash says 200lbs is good for 6' while Gmac says thats to big, but really thats a matter of body type.

Im just under 6'3" and I did really badly for many years and I think A LOT of it had to do with the fact that on top of my height, I have a big frame. A tall big frame with little to no muscle looks shite. Worse with fat.

Figure out and match your body type. The guys who are "Too big" tend to go over their body type. You see a lot short Napolean Syndrome guys who fall into this category. 5'4" at 220lbs, built like a pitbull, he looks ridiculous.

[tjuan]

It makes a huge difference. Being in shape, standing with good posture (read roissy's post) is my favorite form of peacocking -- girls definitely notice.

That said, it makes a huge difference for me because fitness is important to me. Knowing I'm in the top percentile (for my area) gives me confidence. Is it the confidence or the body that the girls notice.. doesn't matter. btw, I'm referring to a footballer/soccer build.