[OregonToSoCal]

I had a first date early last week that I thought went extremely well only to have it slip through my fingers. I think I botched the timing of the pull back to my place. Here's a quick summary.

30 yo blonde from OKC. Really tall (5'11), kind of a Coachella music fan kind of girl. We met for drinks at an upscale wine bar walking distance from my place. From the moment we met I could feel an intense chemistry with her and her eye contact was quite intense. We sat at the bar and vibed over our mutual love of whiskey, music and photography all the while my hands were constantly touching her arms and hands and the strong eye contact continued. I showed her a few of my photos stored on my phone which she really loved. When our drinks were almost done I said:

"Hey, I have quite a few nice images that are printed on metal, you should come see them."
She paused and then said "oh, you mean at your place?"
"Yeah"
"Hmm, I don't think I should be going back to your place on our first date"
I looked at her slightly grinning and said "We'll be fine, I promise"
"I have to get up early, next time...."

So I dropped the subject and we went back to our conversation and then a little while later I took care of the bill and we left. When we got to the parking area our cars were in completely different directions so I said "well if I can't convince you to have another drink with me I guess this is good night." With that I pulled her in and we had a mini makeout session right there in the parking lot. I was the first to pull away and she even had that eyes closed, mouth open, freeze frame look. I said "have a good night" while smirking at her and that was that.

Fast forward to a couple of days ago. I texted her about a trip she took over the weekend and she quickly replied and we went back and forth a few times. Then this:

"I want to hear all about your trip, let's meet for happy hour, what day works for you?"
(Radio silence for a day and a half)
Knowing that texts can sometimes get dropped (I know, long shot) I sent out "So I'm guessing that's a no to HH? lol"
Then this: "Thanks for the invite but I just didn't feel the necessary click the other night to move forward with you, blah blah blah"

I've been on a crap load of first dates, had a lot of first date bangs, even more near misses but this one has stymied me. There most certainly was a big ass "click" in my opinion so I call BS on her line. With the chemistry and vibe we had I figured a second date was a slam dunk.

I'm suspecting I wasn't persistent enough in the pull back to my place and that caused her to go cold? I'm over this girl but I'm always looking to tighten my game and never repeat the same mistake twice. Her vibe, body language and the perceived chemistry leads me to believe this was a technical mistake on my part. Or am I being too hard on myself?

[Frostbite]

From the sounds of it, your assumption is correct.

When she replied to your offer of going to your place, the "hmm" and "shouldn't" indicates that she probably would have, had you been more persistent. And if you had banged her, she'd likely be back for more.

Given time to reflect, because you indirectly suggested sex on the first date, she's probably thinking that you're "just another player" etc. And being 30, is probably rationalising that she should be settling down soon.

This would likely not be the case with someone younger (still in party / slut mode).

Don't lose sleep over it though, on to the next !

[OregonToSoCal]

(06-25-2015 12:06 PM)Frostbite Wrote:  

From the sounds of it, your assumption is correct.

When she replied to your offer of going to your place, the "hmm" and "shouldn't" indicates that she probably would have, had you been more persistent. And if you had banged her, she'd likely be back for more.

Given time to reflect, because you indirectly suggested sex on the first date, she's probably thinking that you're "just another player" etc. And being 30, is probably rationalising that she should be settling down soon.

This would likely not be the case with someone younger (still in party / slut mode).

Don't lose sleep over it though, on to the next !

Good advice Frostbite. I tend to try and have a take it or leave it attitude when it comes to everything from scheduling a date to overcoming LMR. I'm starting to see how I need to be more persistent in these situations as it's already paid off with a few recent women once back at my place. I forget that token resistance can happen at any stage of the date and not just right before sex.

[Phoenix]

I've had this before, it's a case of going over the escalation threshold but it not ending in a bang. Sometimes this is because of her stymying it, possibly because of her issues. She may have been pumped and dumped too much before, so her excitement is tempered by this in a way a teen wouldn't be.

That aside, you shouldn't have done the makeout if she said she wasn't going to come home. That left her with no sexual tension. You could have tried pretending to go into the kiss, then going past to her ear and saying "maybe next time" (all slow and smooth). That would have left her with tension.

Also the date sounded too short. Even a gooey eyes girl can need more comfort. A venue change might have helped.

[Vincent Chase]

Yes with the vast majority of the online girls it's a one shot thing. You either have sex with them on the first date and maybe see them again, or you don't and you get some fluff because she didn't experience connection with you as she did with other men (as in you didn't fuck her). I've experienced both dozens of times. I kissed some non famous actress in New York last week, she said she really liked me then the next day said she'd prefer if we don't see each other again.

I like to employ the RSD method these days of "closing the exits", give her the excuses before she comes with them. I insert somewhere, usually in the early stages of the date that I have to get up early tomorrow and other tidbits, this way she'll be chasing you in addition to qualifying them as much as possible. You can say you're off travelling tomorrow to a business trip in New York for a week to ten days, then it will pretty much be now or never, and women love time constraints as it's an illustration of value, don't make yourself available to her outside the here and now.

[OregonToSoCal]

(06-25-2015 12:45 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

You could have tried pretending to go into the kiss, then going past to her ear and saying "maybe next time" (all slow and smooth). That would have left her with tension.

I'm absolutely stealing this move! If she's not going to come home with me I really don't give a shit if I kiss her or not. Years ago I was all about 'the kiss close' but a girl kissing me without the bang is useless to me.

(06-25-2015 12:45 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Also the date sounded too short. Even a gooey eyes girl can need more comfort. A venue change might have helped.

You're right it was short. We met up at around 9pm and it was pushing 10:30 when we were done so a venue change would have been too tight for a weeknight. But my last bang (the very next day after this girl) we started early, did the venue change and it was a textbook first date bang. Live and learn...

[ordinaryleastsquared]

(06-25-2015 12:06 PM)Frostbite Wrote:  

From the sounds of it, your assumption is correct.

When she replied to your offer of going to your place, the "hmm" and "shouldn't" indicates that she probably would have, had you been more persistent. And if you had banged her, she'd likely be back for more.

Given time to reflect, because you indirectly suggested sex on the first date, she's probably thinking that you're "just another player" etc. And being 30, is probably rationalising that she should be settling down soon.

This would likely not be the case with someone younger (still in party / slut mode).

Don't lose sleep over it though, on to the next !

This and also kissing her in the parking lot gave her all the validation she was looking for without the actual act of sex (which of course for women means more emotional baggage for them, risk of pregnancy etc etc).

That's why in most situations I take the time honored advice and only escalate in a place where sex can happen, and if she doesn't accept an invite back to my pad, I bid her a fond evening and try to set up a dinner date at my place next.

[redbeard]

Seems like two big mistakes.

1. Didn't bounce to another venue. Her interest could have been slipping and a bounce (and more alcohol) would loosen her up more.

2. Didn't handle your baiting well.

Quote:

"Hey, I have quite a few nice images that are printed on metal, you should come see them."
She paused and then said "oh, you mean at your place?"
"Yeah"
"Hmm, I don't think I should be going back to your place on our first date"
I looked at her slightly grinning and said "We'll be fine, I promise"
"I have to get up early, next time...." Dodgy

"Yeah." Don't leave it open ended like you did. That leaves her to make a decision right that moment. You should slowly be dropping your bait through the date and then at the end of the night, say "oh hey remember that thing I talked about earlier? Come by yada yada yada."

So instead of saying "yeah" you say "yeah" and then talk about your photos in order to change the subject.

The key is to have her thinking about sex without her knowing it. And then, when "it just happens."

[kaotic]

Yup, I never makeout with a girl unless she's comfortable in my bed, it's dark, and I have a background movie on.

If a girl said that to me I'd totally use the "maybe next time" line, that's killer Phoenix !

I love playing their own games, they get all cute faux offended. When in the date did you offer her to come to your house ?

When I talk about coming over, I drop bait here and there, movies, music, cool things I have (your photos) etc.

I always venue change once, to test out how they feel and ALSO to see if they comply and drive with me, and leave their car at the other bar.

THEN I say -slap the bar- "you know what screw it ! let's go check out X and watch X at my house!" -smile/grin- see how they respond.

I've had this not work a handful of times versus having them come over and get the bang.

This helps set the wheels in motion.

You know it could be multiple things:

-You didn't build enough comfort, despite lots of kino. (Afterall you're just another guy to her online)
-Venue change was mentioned, which means more drinks.
-Well she's 30, the hamster date warrior is experienced, she knows the score.
-She had a slut epiphany or something else in that hamster of hers.

[OregonToSoCal]

I appreciate all of the good feedback gents! I read somewhere that the best coaches don't necessarily teach everything but instead remind their players of what they already know but have forgotten. And, yeah this is one of those times. From what everyone has said I need to:

1. No kissing on the date unless she's back at my place or I'm at hers. If she refuses to come back to my place I'm going to do Phoenix's 'kiss tease'.

2. Do a venue change. I'm not sure how to swing that if the date starts late on a weeknight but I'll figure it out...

3. Work my bait in more subtlety and not force her into a yes/no decision.

One final question for you guys (@Kaotic you already answered in your reply) but do you propose the bounce back to your place while you're still sitting at the bar or on the walk back to her car? I've done both but am thinking the walk back may be better since it gives her less chance to think about it and back out?

[heavy]

(06-25-2015 01:14 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

"Yeah." Don't leave it open ended like you did. That leaves her to make a decision right that moment. You should slowly be dropping your bait through the date and then at the end of the night, say "oh hey remember that thing I talked about earlier? Come by yada yada yada."

So instead of saying "yeah" you say "yeah" and then talk about your photos in order to change the subject.

The key is to have her thinking about sex without her knowing it. And then, when "it just happens."

Genius. A real player, that redbeard.

[kaotic]

(06-25-2015 01:14 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

"Yeah." Don't leave it open ended like you did. That leaves her to make a decision right that moment. You should slowly be dropping your bait through the date and then at the end of the night, say "oh hey remember that thing I talked about earlier? Come by yada yada yada."

So instead of saying "yeah" you say "yeah" and then talk about your photos in order to change the subject.

The key is to have her thinking about sex without her knowing it. And then, when "it just happens."

Nailed it. Bait is always key, one moment they're in your room checking out cool shit you have, the next thing you're having a drink watching a movie, and woah I didn't expect this to happen.

I don't ever suggest, I TELL them what we're doing next, you can't suggest their thoughts, you guide them. Of course I say it with a grin or a semi serious tone to push the envelope.

[WestIndianArchie]

Sounds like you had good *date* but I didn't read much in terms of manipulating the conversation and situation to your advantage. I don't see a lot of game. I see some, but not a whole lot.

Did you draw her out?
Did she tell you a dirty little secret?
How much did she volunteer, and what did you do with it?

Still even if/when you do all of that, you might not.get the bang or the second date.

One of the lessons here is that a player can have a good time with a broad, drink, touch, make out.. and end up with nothing to show for it.

A chick can play along but end up not being moved at all. The connection meant nothing to her.

WIA

[OregonToSoCal]

(06-25-2015 02:45 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Sounds like you had good *date* but I didn't read much in terms of manipulating the conversation and situation to your advantage. I don't see a lot of game. I see some, but not a whole lot.

Did you draw her out?
Did she tell you a dirty little secret?
How much did she volunteer, and what did you do with it?

Still even if/when you do all of that, you might not.get the bang or the second date.

One of the lessons here is that a player can have a good time with a broad, drink, touch, make out.. and end up with nothing to show for it.

A chick can play along but end up not being moved at all. The connection meant nothing to her.

WIA

WIA I ran my usual first date game. I engaged her from the beginning, had her do about 70% of the talking, she told me about her childhood, her failed marriage, her disappointment in the majority of men, gender role reversals etc. We're both passionate music fans and I think we hooked the most on that topic but looking back who the hell knows?

[WestIndianArchie]

You work any compliance into the night?

Also, bitches be crazy

[OregonToSoCal]

(06-25-2015 03:30 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

You work any compliance into the night?

Also, bitches be crazy

Good question. I think I did a pretty decent job of leading as the first venue we were going to hit ended up closing early so I had to think on my feet and quickly decided on the next place which she complimented me on.

Up until recently I was never a believer in the venue change and thought it was a waste of both time and money. Then I went back and looked at my dates where I DID do the venue change by happenstance and not as part of a strategy and my close rates were markedly higher. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I had a date with a different girl the very next day and I could feel that after our first stop she wasn't quite ready to come home with me so I said let's check out the new brewery across the street. After the second venue she followed me home with no objections and then once back at my place the LMR was easily handled and she ended up staying over night with me. I think with the girl in question, my screw up was in not setting the bait properly, kissing her before isolation and not doing a venue change. Good lesson learned...

But yeah, no arguing with bitches be crazy

[Bacchus]

This situation where I had a decent date with an online girl and couldn't get her out again has happened quite a few times. I've always assumed that she caught another dick.

And if she did, he's just hopped to the front of the line, ahead of you and everyone else on her radar. You're dealing with girls that without any effort on their part have a vast network of potential suitors, and plus new options every day. 100+ messages online. Every guy who looks in her direction at the bar. Any one of them could be the one to capture her loins along with her heart. And you're falling in line with each one of them without the bang.

The solution is to sell out on the first date as much as possible. Either you take it to the hole or you flame out trying.

[Hardy Daytona]

(06-25-2015 11:15 AM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

"Hey, I have quite a few nice images that are printed on metal, you should come see them."
She paused and then said "oh, you mean at your place?"
"Yeah"
"Hmm, I don't think I should be going back to your place on our first date"
I looked at her slightly grinning and said "We'll be fine, I promise"
"I have to get up early, next time...."

I would have gone with the Bill Murray in Groundhog Day line: "Oh I don't think you should either. That's why I'm just going to show you this one thing and then kick you right out."

[TripleG]

(06-25-2015 03:22 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

(06-25-2015 02:45 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Sounds like you had good *date* but I didn't read much in terms of manipulating the conversation and situation to your advantage. I don't see a lot of game. I see some, but not a whole lot.

Did you draw her out?
Did she tell you a dirty little secret?
How much did she volunteer, and what did you do with it?

Still even if/when you do all of that, you might not.get the bang or the second date.

One of the lessons here is that a player can have a good time with a broad, drink, touch, make out.. and end up with nothing to show for it.

A chick can play along but end up not being moved at all. The connection meant nothing to her.

WIA

WIA I ran my usual first date game. I engaged her from the beginning, had her do about 70% of the talking, she told me about her childhood, her failed marriage, her disappointment in the majority of men, gender role reversals etc. We're both passionate music fans and I think we hooked the most on that topic but looking back who the hell knows?

I think it's to your benefit that you didn't bang this girl. Many red flags: Not only is she 30, but already a divorcee and from the sound of it ("her disappointment in the majority of men") has ridden the cock-carousel extensively. I think you're better off concentrating on day-game as from my experience online game can bring some crazy girls.