[CJ_W]

the copyright laws and intellectual provisions in the TPP will have a negative, long-lasting, and international effect on digital rights and access to intellectual property in all of the countries that participate in the TPP.

Help us use the link above to get as many Americans to contact their representative in the House of Representatives and the Senate and kill this thing. It's SOPA all over again, but this time with multiple countries involved.

Relevant links in case they get missed - you can use these to help write / call your Congress people as well as spread the word to your friends and colleagues, who should be encouraged to do the same:

https://www.readthetpp.com/
https://act.eff.org/action/speak-out-aga...-agreement

Feel free to try out the EFF form in the link: https://act.eff.org/action/speak-out-aga...-agreement

This gives you a pre-written letter that will automatically be emailed to both your Senators and your Congressman, based on where you live. Takes only a couple of minutes. If every Congressman received tens of thousands of these over the next several days, that could make a real difference.


P.S. By the way I got this from Voat, and have been following this for about 7-8 months, and the sopa/pipa shenanigans for years. Reddit has been deleting posts that even mention the TPP. Even people like John Oliver who bases their show on bring grosssly overstepping issues has been silent on this. We cant really rely on `champions` any longer, they can be co-opted easily and silenced just as fast.

You COULD ignore this and just go on about your day, untill this thing passes and the first thing they go after are the people who post on the forum, the forum itself, your blogs that help you live location independently etc etc. So this is kind of in your best interests to help stop this.

[Snowplow]

What is with the fake site. I don't have time to visit these garbage links. Couldn't you just state the problem and give us some actual insight. How bout actually giving me an idea on what TPP, SOPA, PAPA & EFF stand for.

Besides that last paragraph reads like a bad infomercial.

[CJ_W]

Further explanation on the TPP by Julian Assange: http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/27/ju...ns_pacific


One glaring problem with this bill (among all the rest) is that a corporation can sue a small town who won't be able to defend themselves financially. It could basically kill any community sponsored initiatives because it cuts into someone's profits.

The heavy intrusion into our internet is of course a large concern.


You like environmental laws? Let's say we enact a law to keep MegaCorp from dumping toxic waste in a swamp. In China, they might not have to deal with that law. The difference is lost profit to them. The TPP allows them to sue the govt. for those lost profits. Not in our courts either. It's arbitration. The people making the decision aren't even citizens and the decisions they make take precedent over current law.

This isn't the end of it either. Put in a new bus line? Well you just took profits from an oil company and probably a car company too. Guess what? You get sued or forced to remove the line.

[lurker]

(06-24-2015 08:00 PM)Snowplow Wrote:  

What is with the fake site. I don't have time to visit these garbage links. Couldn't you just state the problem and give us some actual insight. How bout actually giving me an idea on what TPP, SOPA, PAPA & EFF stand for.

Besides that last paragraph reads like a bad infomercial.

If you take the very brief time to be informed about bills your own government passes, you'll be a better citizen.

TPP is a trade treaty Obama is trying to fast track over the protests of Congress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

SOPA/PIPA is the Stop Online Piracy Act (House)/Protect IP Act (Senate)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_IP_Act

The EFF, the purveyor of the "fake site" you mention, is the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a 25-year-old nonprofit devoted to free exchanges of ideas and free speech across the Internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic...Foundation

By the way, you could have learned all of this in about fifteen seconds of Googling - less time than it took you to write your post.

[CJ_W]

Here`s an infographic that explains the TPP in more detail: https://imgur.com/a/KuERk


Another comic: http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/

Edit: I cant post the whole picture on the thread on this computer. Ill have to do that later.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

TPP is NAFTA on steroids - it will give unprecedented access for multinational corporations to plunder and rape any Western country signing it. Real poverty and austerity will ensue as Westerners may fully compete with 20$/day wages of countries like China.

"Compete - slaves!"

It's a done deal. Even if 20 million would sign a petition, they would ignore it. Even if 5 million came marching down the street they would ignore it and the media might even fail to mention that march - in order not to alert the rest of the population that something is going on.

It's a noble pursuit, but democracy in the current form is a sham. It will go through, the congressman or senator you want to contact has already been paid off to pass it or he will soon - he is just negotiating a better price.

It will take a few years after the TPP comes in full effect, but the effects will be felt soon enough.

[RawGod]

I've often thought that NAFTA/GATT was the biggest historical turning point in the last, say 40 years. Bigger than 9/11, on par with or bigger than the end of the Cold War. While we obsess over trannies and mass shootings, these are the things that really determine what kind of society we live in. TPP is the next stage for the corporatism and free-floating capitalism that rules our destinies.

I agree with Zelcorpion that it won't be stopped by democratic or any other means. But at least we should understand the age we live in. And that is - again - the primacy of free-floating global capital and borderless labor markets. Enabled by fractional reserve banking, it destroys religion, nation, community, all traditional forms of human society in favor of profits for usurers and owners of capital. All people must be reduced to atoms floating in the ether of capitalism - equal and free, under the greater yoke of the system, free of the bonds of family, tribe and location.

[Phoenix]

Man I hate governments. I'm going to have to start analyzing how my Internet connection and various accounts work so I can get the right bulletproof VPN privacy system etc. The day isn't far away where using the internet will be like speaking your mind in the book 1984.

[CJ_W]

(06-25-2015 01:51 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

I've often thought that NAFTA/GATT was the biggest historical turning point in the last, say 40 years. Bigger than 9/11, on par with or bigger than the end of the Cold War. While we obsess over trannies and mass shootings, these are the things that really determine what kind of society we live in. TPP is the next stage for the corporatism and free-floating capitalism that rules our destinies.

I agree with Zelcorpion that it won't be stopped by democratic or any other means. But at least we should understand the age we live in. And that is - again - the primacy of free-floating global capital and borderless labor markets. Enabled by fractional reserve banking, it destroys religion, nation, community, all traditional forms of human society in favor of profits for usurers and owners of capital. All people must be reduced to atoms floating in the ether of capitalism - equal and free, under the greater yoke of the system, free of the bonds of family, tribe and location.

So basically, I should be working on my writing/marketing/product creation skills. . .doing that now, hopefully I can get myself set up before this shit starts going into effect.

[lurker]

(06-25-2015 02:55 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Man I hate governments. I'm going to have to start analyzing how my Internet connection and various accounts work so I can get the right bulletproof VPN privacy system etc. The day isn't far away where using the internet will be like speaking your mind in the book 1984.

They work because the government you "hate" researched them, developed them, provided them uninterrupted bandwidth in the radio spectrum, and subsidized them for decades.

[Darius]

(06-25-2015 01:22 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

TPP is NAFTA on steroids - it will give unprecedented access for multinational corporations to plunder and rape any Western country signing it. Real poverty and austerity will ensue as Westerners may fully compete with 20$/day wages of countries like China.

"Compete - slaves!"

It's a done deal. Even if 20 million would sign a petition, they would ignore it. Even if 5 million came marching down the street they would ignore it and the media might even fail to mention that march - in order not to alert the rest of the population that something is going on.

It's a noble pursuit, but democracy in the current form is a sham. It will go through, the congressman or senator you want to contact has already been paid off to pass it or he will soon - he is just negotiating a better price.

It will take a few years after the TPP comes in full effect, but the effects will be felt soon enough.

You have honestly turned into a Negative Nancy. You are simply a Propaganda tool for those you claim to dislike.

Someone creates a thread and tries to do something. All you do is play the part of Chicken Little and tell everyone the sky is falling.

Do you intend to do something or help your oppressors place the shackles around our necks?

[TheWastelander]

This is not capitalism. This is cronyism and corruption. Free trade is nations agreeing to eliminate tariffs and restrictions on the import and export of each others' products. This is a deliberate power grab covering all sorts of nonsense and is fundamentally harmful to the American people.

I used the form in the third link since it took all of ten seconds but my senator already voted for the fucking thing and my opinion on this doesn't matter to him. He's running for President and there's a good chance he might win, so he wants the TPA authority to determine trade deals all on his own.

[Tim in real life]

I was just keeping up with this on Twitter and found out this morning it got passed.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-25-2015 11:20 AM)Darius Wrote:  

You have honestly turned into a Negative Nancy. You are simply a Propaganda tool for those you claim to dislike.

Someone creates a thread and tries to do something. All you do is play the part of Chicken Little and tell everyone the sky is falling.

Do you intend to do something or help your oppressors place the shackles around our necks?

No - I simply am aware of how deep the control matrix goes. It goes beyond some lobbyists who influence politicians.

If you think that the FED is independent, that the president and congress are truly ruling and the parties have highly different agendas, then you have much to learn.

If you truly believe that you can vote yourself out of this by casting your ballot for one of the hand-picked candidates who in the end have to tow the party line, then be my guest. I will see how it will work out for you.

It will take much much more to topple this system - currently I see it only possible with a super-aware population that rises up in unison (fat chance), the absolute elite (not the politicians) changing their minds and giving us interest free money and prosperity (even fatter chance) or something drastic and bizarre like an Alien invasion. Otherwise our system is one of the best ones ever devised and orchestrated in history - and most of it in secrecy, which is impressive.

As a positive note - even their system will fall sooner or later despite all that careful planning, but it may take a while. It certainly won't fall by trying to stop the TPP, which is only one step on the agenda - one that the public has no say in and most people are not even aware of being signed.

[Blunt]

(06-25-2015 01:22 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

"Compete - slaves!"

But a perfect description of the nature of TPP.

[Darius]

(06-25-2015 12:26 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(06-25-2015 11:20 AM)Darius Wrote:  

You have honestly turned into a Negative Nancy. You are simply a Propaganda tool for those you claim to dislike.

Someone creates a thread and tries to do something. All you do is play the part of Chicken Little and tell everyone the sky is falling.

Do you intend to do something or help your oppressors place the shackles around our necks?

No - I simply am aware of how deep the control matrix goes. It goes beyond some lobbyists who influence politicians.

If you think that the FED is independent, that the president and congress are truly ruling and the parties have highly different agendas, then you have much to learn.

If you truly believe that you can vote yourself out of this by casting your ballot for one of the hand-picked candidates who in the end have to tow the party line, then be my guest. I will see how it will work out for you.

It will take much much more to topple this system - currently I see it only possible with a super-aware population that rises up in unison (fat chance), the absolute elite (not the politicians) changing their minds and giving us interest free money and prosperity (even fatter chance) or something drastic and bizarre like an Alien invasion. Otherwise our system is one of the best ones ever devised and orchestrated in history - and most of it in secrecy, which is impressive.

As a positive note - even their system will fall sooner or later despite all that careful planning, but it may take a while. It certainly won't fall by trying to stop the TPP, which is only one step on the agenda - one that the public has no say in and most people are not even aware of being signed.

Your so "aware" that you fail to realize that you are a part of the problem and that you are being used as a propaganda tool by those in power.

Your basically saying we have already lost give up all hope now.

It's the equivalent of saying don't learn game women are only going to get worse.

You come into a thread that at the very least spreads awareness and say all hope is lost.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-25-2015 03:51 PM)Darius Wrote:  

Your so "aware" that you fail to realize that you are a part of the problem and that you are being used as a propaganda tool by those in power.

Your basically saying we have already lost give up all hope now.

It's the equivalent of saying don't learn game women are only going to get worse.

You come into a thread that at the very least spreads awareness and say all hope is lost.

Going over and watching some Infowars will certainly solve it all.

Listen - hope is intrinsic in the system, but being naive is not the way forward.

If all the people were similarly aware as me, then yes the system would stop, because no one would be voting and we would all know what the solution would be. And there are definitely things that the real elite are afraid of - when everyone knows what is going on and unites under clear understanding of the reality - then the elite might change things out of fear of losing their lives the next day. Heck even their effective armies and the police would stop following certain orders. Then it would be game over. But that is nowhere in sight here.

Stop making mindless accusations and equating me with some propaganda tool. I think that the people trying to stop things like the TPP are doing good and worthy work, but I just know that it won't be enough. Awareness for now is more important. In a way they raise a few points, but miss the major ones.

The Occupy Wallstreet had nothing except a general discontent - they were like leaves in the wind - easily swayed by this or that move. In the end they were swept away like leaves, because they did not know what the fuck they were demanding anyway.

Vapid accusations won't change anything. Again I repeat - you have no idea how deep the system goes and how strongly it is entrenched by now.

[Darius]

(06-25-2015 04:08 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Stop making mindless accusations and equating me with some propaganda tool.

That is exactly what you are when discourage other people.

The people in control want people defeated, hopeless and fearful. Which is what posts like your original one in this thread spreads. You may not be aware that you are a propaganda tool but that's what you unwittingly become when you discourage others.

[kaotic]

Noone gives a shit about the TPP duh, they want to yell about a piece of cloth that offends them !

The TPP does give rise to interesting questions of how it'll affect the states like NAFTA did.

I don't like it, this isn't a good thing in my book. Thing is sure it might secure some jobs, but you'll sure as hell hurt other jobs.

[CJ_W]

(06-25-2015 05:06 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Noone gives a shit about the TPP duh, they want to yell about a piece of cloth that offends them !

The TPP does give rise to interesting questions of how it'll affect the states like NAFTA did.

I don't like it, this isn't a good thing in my book. Thing is sure it might secure some jobs, but you'll sure as hell hurt other jobs.

Thing is a lot of it is secret as well so we dont really know what is is in the bill besides the leaks and what some of the politicians against it have said.

Funny thing about the confederate flag thing, is I STILL dont know anything about that story as Ive been watching this and not watching TV.

[kaotic]

Everyone on my FB fees is screaming about the flag, noone talks about the TPP.

You know it's bad when the public isn't allowed to see it. I wish wiki leaks or anonymous could of hacked these fuckers and released it all the to the public.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-25-2015 06:13 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Everyone on my FB fees is screaming about the flag, noone talks about the TPP.

You know it's bad when the public isn't allowed to see it. I wish wiki leaks or anonymous could of hacked these fuckers and released it all the to the public.

Wikileaks is offering 100.000$ for the full text. So far - only parts are released. It is about far more than trade - free movement of labor as well as many stifling regulations for everyone except big corporations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-t...rade-deal/

At a recent poll in Canada most did not even hear of it:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trans-pa...-1.3116770

But I am sure they know all about Bruce Jenner and the confederate flag. You know - news that count vs. those that will actually impact them for decades.

As far as petitions go - I see those massive petitions and even demonstrations in Europe. They have sometimes millions signed which oppose some law. Then you see the president / prime minister taking all those millions of signed petitions with great fanfare. The very next week the law passes as planned.

Even in Spain and Portugal when millions went to demonstrate against austerity, it was as if nothing happened. There was no common goal.

The only time I saw a clear resolve and obvious signs was when the people of Iceland came with torches towards the parliament and demonstrated against the bank bailouts.



But that was one point of the agenda and they were all united against it. It was possible in a small country of 300.000 citizens. Sending emails to politicians won't effect anything, because both parties have to vote for it. You literally have no choice. If 50 million marched towards the White House with lit torches in opposition to the TPP - that might rattle them, but not petitions. The only petitions that pass are the meaningless ones or those which they have instigated themselves.

[Hotwheels]

(06-25-2015 06:13 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Everyone on my FB fees is screaming about the flag, noone talks about the TPP.

That's not by chance.

Quote:

You know it's bad when the public isn't allowed to see it. I wish wiki leaks or anonymous could of hacked these fuckers and released it all the to the public.

So much for the most transparent presidency ever.

[Libertas]

Well, they passed fast track the other day, a Republican Congress hamstringing itself to give the President more power when they've tried to stop him on anything for years. That is very telling. But it only passed by a razor thin margin, which shows that some of the campaigning is having an effect, just like it did with SOPA/PIPA years ago.

I'm not flying a white flag yet.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-25-2015 01:51 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

I've often thought that NAFTA/GATT was the biggest historical turning point in the last, say 40 years. Bigger than 9/11, on par with or bigger than the end of the Cold War. While we obsess over trannies and mass shootings, these are the things that really determine what kind of society we live in. TPP is the next stage for the corporatism and free-floating capitalism that rules our destinies.

I agree with Zelcorpion that it won't be stopped by democratic or any other means. But at least we should understand the age we live in. And that is - again - the primacy of free-floating global capital and borderless labor markets. Enabled by fractional reserve banking, it destroys religion, nation, community, all traditional forms of human society in favor of profits for usurers and owners of capital. All people must be reduced to atoms floating in the ether of capitalism - equal and free, under the greater yoke of the system, free of the bonds of family, tribe and location.

If there were borderless labor markets I might be in support of this. It certainly hasn't become easier to move from one country to another...well maybe if you have a few million for an investor visa, but I think that is also the point of these laws...free movement of the rich and business but restricted movement of labor.

If labor was not limited it would never make sense to move a business unless it was closer to markets or resources. Instead what you'll get is people locked in their own borders and businesses that rotate regions, china for example where they will stay until wages climb to a certain point, then head back to America where wages have fallen and governments are begging them back with crazy tax breaks.