[Basil Ransom]

(06-13-2015 05:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:00 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Quote:

But the amount of self-control it would have taken him not to snap was more than an average man could handle; indeed it would have required a Saint-like amount of virtue to not blow up after having his life completely destroyed. As Roosh says, Alex's only crime was being average:

You're being dramatic. He was a mall cop. He got fired. He can get another job. It's not the end of the world. This is a routine occurrence, and the vast majority of people who experience it, men or women, just move on and deal with it. This dude didn't because he was seriously ill.

Or, he had no education and no chance at keeping his girl before pulling his life back together. For a beta male, losing your love is quite literally the end of the world.

Those are still routine situations. Very rarely do they result in people killing someone. Plus there's no indication that he was going to lose his girl. If he had thought so, that's his extreme anxiety.

I'd bet that he wasn't worried about losing his girl - he was indignant that girls were telling him off were something, rightly or wrongly. "Who are they to tell me off, for doing nothing? I'll show her!"

He was an avid gun supporter - nothing wrong with that. But with some people who advocate for 'protecting their rights,' they are quick to perceive slights, disrespect, dishonor, to the point of getting riled up over them and wanting to exact revenge. It happens to me sometimes when I drive or bike. He went on "justice mode" and "corrected" his victim, by killing her.

[Samseau]

(06-13-2015 05:30 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:00 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Quote:

But the amount of self-control it would have taken him not to snap was more than an average man could handle; indeed it would have required a Saint-like amount of virtue to not blow up after having his life completely destroyed. As Roosh says, Alex's only crime was being average:

You're being dramatic. He was a mall cop. He got fired. He can get another job. It's not the end of the world. This is a routine occurrence, and the vast majority of people who experience it, men or women, just move on and deal with it. This dude didn't because he was seriously ill.

Or, he had no education and no chance at keeping his girl before pulling his life back together. For a beta male, losing your love is quite literally the end of the world.

Those are still routine situations. Very rarely do they result in people killing someone. Plus there's no indication that he was going to lose his girl. If he had thought so, that's his extreme anxiety.

Being in love is not anxiety. Also you are right these are routine situations, which is why so many men kill themselves after divorce or kill their wives or kill their entire family. In fact this sort of "blowing up" is rather common. Dude truly believed he was fucked and went nuts.

Really man - the mentally ill explanation makes no sense whatsoever. There is nothing to indicate he was mentally ill. No prior arrests. No drug addictions. Marries an intelligent young pretty girl. Gets along with everyone. You're grasping at straws because you refuse to believe that this is what America is becoming.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-13-2015 05:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:30 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:00 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Quote:

But the amount of self-control it would have taken him not to snap was more than an average man could handle; indeed it would have required a Saint-like amount of virtue to not blow up after having his life completely destroyed. As Roosh says, Alex's only crime was being average:

You're being dramatic. He was a mall cop. He got fired. He can get another job. It's not the end of the world. This is a routine occurrence, and the vast majority of people who experience it, men or women, just move on and deal with it. This dude didn't because he was seriously ill.

Or, he had no education and no chance at keeping his girl before pulling his life back together. For a beta male, losing your love is quite literally the end of the world.

Those are still routine situations. Very rarely do they result in people killing someone. Plus there's no indication that he was going to lose his girl. If he had thought so, that's his extreme anxiety.

Being in love is not anxiety. Also you are right these are routine situations, which is why so many men kill themselves after divorce or kill their wives or kill their entire family. In fact this sort of "blowing up" is rather common. Dude truly believed he was fucked and went nuts.

Really man - the mentally ill explanation makes no sense whatsoever. There is nothing to indicate he was mentally ill. No prior arrests. No drug addictions. Marries an intelligent young pretty girl. Gets along with everyone. You're grasping at straws because you refuse to believe that this is what America is becoming.

Common in the sense that we read about it in the newspaper. Rare in the sense that it happens to <5% of people. If someone from Mars read your apocalyptic narrative, they'd think there were no happy families or healthy young children roaming the streets. You want your apocalyptic narrative to be true, to scare society into changing its ways, but it's a long ways until society is on the brink of collapse from angry men going postal.

His murdering someone over a firing is prima facie evidence of mental illness. That he had no priors, that we, a bunch of internet nobodies, know of, doesn't mean much. What exactly he had, I don't know. We've all experienced tribulations like he did. In the face of them what did we do? We laughed, we cried, we got angry, we worried. And that was about it. This dude up and murdered someone. Not a typical response. Suicide is far more common, but still rare.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-13-2015 05:12 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 04:11 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this guys "look" both genetically, in stature and in attire in this photo stand out to me. The guys I've known to have this look are what I'd call "kings of the nerds" meaning that they are the alphas of the fedora wearing crowd. Its this kind of dude where he has this strange ego because he bangs all the "hottest" LARP and chubby cosplay girls...whereas outside of the nerd realm those girls are a 5 or 6. His ego gets way too big because his normal competition are fat neckbearded dudes with passive attitudes and brutal social skills where his short man complex and asberger-ish outgoing nature push him to be outgoing...without understanding that in the rest of a society he is still seen as a weirdo.

Given the stereotype I have placed on him, having him snap over a transgression is plausible. He's got an oversized, out of touch ego and when someone trips him up he's both outraged at the affront and outraged that he is being punished for "playing by societies rules". Like "How dare that chick try to ruin my life or act this way" vs. a red pill mindset of "I'm not surprised at all that some bitter cunt is trying to ruin my life for no reason"

[Black Knight]

(06-13-2015 06:05 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this guys "look" both genetically, in stature and in attire in this photo stand out to me. The guys I've known to have this look are what I'd call "kings of the nerds" meaning that they are the alphas of the fedora wearing crowd. Its this kind of dude where he has this strange ego because he bangs all the "hottest" LARP and chubby cosplay girls...whereas outside of the nerd realm those girls are a 5 or 6. His ego gets way too big because his normal competition are fat neckbearded dudes with passive attitudes and brutal social skills where his short man complex and asberger-ish outgoing nature push him to be outgoing...without understanding that in the rest of a society he is still seen as a weirdo.

Just wanted to say I thought this was great insight. Met many of these people and this is spot-on.

[Samseau]

(06-13-2015 05:49 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:30 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:00 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

You're being dramatic. He was a mall cop. He got fired. He can get another job. It's not the end of the world. This is a routine occurrence, and the vast majority of people who experience it, men or women, just move on and deal with it. This dude didn't because he was seriously ill.

Or, he had no education and no chance at keeping his girl before pulling his life back together. For a beta male, losing your love is quite literally the end of the world.

Those are still routine situations. Very rarely do they result in people killing someone. Plus there's no indication that he was going to lose his girl. If he had thought so, that's his extreme anxiety.

Being in love is not anxiety. Also you are right these are routine situations, which is why so many men kill themselves after divorce or kill their wives or kill their entire family. In fact this sort of "blowing up" is rather common. Dude truly believed he was fucked and went nuts.

Really man - the mentally ill explanation makes no sense whatsoever. There is nothing to indicate he was mentally ill. No prior arrests. No drug addictions. Marries an intelligent young pretty girl. Gets along with everyone. You're grasping at straws because you refuse to believe that this is what America is becoming.

Common in the sense that we read about it in the newspaper. Rare in the sense that it happens to <5% of people. If someone from Mars read your apocalyptic narrative, they'd think there were no happy families or healthy young children roaming the streets. You want your apocalyptic narrative to be true, to scare society into changing its ways, but it's a long ways until society is on the brink of collapse from angry men going postal.

His murdering someone over a firing is prima facie evidence of mental illness. That he had no priors, that we, a bunch of internet nobodies, know of, doesn't mean much. What exactly he had, I don't know. We've all experienced tribulations like he did. In the face of them what did we do? We laughed, we cried, we got angry, we worried. And that was about it. This dude up and murdered someone. Not a typical response. Suicide is far more common, but still rare.

Well, who knows I'm just speculating. I put my guesses down in writing so I can evaluate my thinking later. I do hope I'm wrong though.

[Checkmat]

I am amazed at the intellectual and mental gymnastics some posters here are going to to defend this murderer.

[CactusCat589]

It seems like an overreaction, yet it must feel like the world was crashing down on him. If his resume can only get him these kinds of jobs where he's working in public venues, then having sexual harrassment on his file is actually a huge blow. Not only that, but now the cat's out of the bag and his wife knows he's out there trying to tap new strange. If she leaves him, he stands a 0% chance of finding an equivalently pretty girl. So this is a blow to him both professionally and personally.

He's a male 5, he did as well as he could have, finding a pretty girl taller than he is and essentially guaranteeing his kids would be better-looking. He should have quit while he was ahead. Or not been a retard and approached people when he wasn't on his shift, and at a different mall.

Bottom line is this guy is an idiot who couldn't accept his mistake.

[Gopnik]

Has the original article been edited? I can't seem to find the mentioned quote about sexual harassment complaints in the link provided by Roosh.

As much as I enjoyed "The Denouncer" I think these two situations are not as similar as it appears to be. In Roosh's blog post, the man lost his job for posting a politically incorrect statement on a fb photo whereas here the killer got fired for allegedly sexually harassing other employees (i.e in a way, not doing his job properly). Whether the claims were true or not we don't know yet but I think losing your job after expressing your beliefs in a relatively private setting outside the office (going against the wide spread pc group-think) is a step above of what happened here.

EDIT: Roosh's quote is from a jezebel article: http://jezebel.com/iowa-mall-shooting-mo...1711118147 (the link in the OP doesn't mention sexual harassment at all)

[Roosh]

Quote:

Has the original article been edited? I can't seem to find the mentioned quote about sexual harassment complaints in the link provided by Roosh.

I mixed up my links. The quote was in another article which I can't find.

Edit: found it. It was strangely deleted but I archived the google cache

https://archive.is/dnLPs

[Basil Ransom]

She's the kind of chick that could be a 7, but dorks herself up so much she usually looks like a 5. Especially when you hear the way this kind of girl talks.

[Mr West]

Aside from the very obvious (that is, the minute you cross the line from thinking about murder to actually committing murder out of rage/revenge, you officially crossed the line into the "mental illness" category).

Can we honestly say that violence is not a thought that crosses the mind when someone does something equivalent to destroying your life? I haven't read the details of the story but from what I understand:

1. He worked as mall cop (e.g: at the lower portion of the economic spectrum).
2. The guy was short and a wierdo (possible napoleon complex + some sort of mental illness).
3. Probably a "nice guy" floor mat, that people mistakenly think (time and time again) are incapable of erupting.

Now imagine someone with no idea of repercussions (a woman) puts some broke, mentally ill man, on blast over "harassment allegations" and making a big enough fuzz to get him fired. I have no idea how legitimate the allegations are, for all I know this poor girl that was shot was out with her little niece and this man went ahead and described very perverse sexual acts in their presence thus warranting the harassment allegations. But if it resembled anything like bad game or harassment from the NY video, I can't help but imagine this young woman was probably approached by this autistic character, and being a woman devoid of knowing repercussions, made a huge deal about an awkward interaction and tried to ruin his livelihood on the basis of "creepiness", with us knowing how it all ends.

I am not defending his actions and I think dying at 20 years old is such a sad tragedy that this guy deserves life in prison. Having said that if my theory is correct, what we have here is a case of another individual that never learned what repercussions are, testing the limits of another person. A sane mature man in his 20s, would never go out of his way to ruin someone's life over an interaction. Most men by that age have witness at least once what another man will do when unnecessarily provoked.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-13-2015 09:28 PM)Mr West Wrote:  

I am not defending his actions and I think dying at 20 years old is such a sad tragedy that this guy deserves life in prison. Having said that if my theory is correct, what we have here is a case of another individual that never learned what repercussions are, testing the limits of another person. A sane mature man in his 20s, would never go out of his way to ruin someone's life over an interaction. Most men by that age have witness at least once what another man will do when unnecessarily provoked.

I must be an insane man. If I got shitty service somewhere, I might inform the manager. If the employee in question gets canned, so be it. I should not have to fear that my life is at stake for doing so, and safeguard the mediocrities of the world. And this would be highly exceptional if danger did come to me as a result, so probabilistically speaking, it's not very likely either.

But yes, blame the corpse for doing something fairly routine.

[KorbenDallas]

Basil,

Your opinion concerning telling the manager is a fairly common one, but disregarding the thread topic I'm curious as to why you do it, since, I'm the type of person who basically never complains. I just don't go back to a place I don't like.

What's the point of complaining? Having worked in a restaurant, you're not going to fix the problem, its the culture of the restaurant, so why bother? It won't fix the bad food or the shitty service to complain.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-13-2015 09:59 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

Basil,

Your opinion concerning telling the manager is a fairly common one, but disregarding the thread topic I'm curious as to why you do it, since, I'm the type of person who basically never complains. I just don't go back to a place I don't like.

What's the point of complaining? Having worked in a restaurant, you're not going to fix the problem, its the culture of the restaurant, so why bother? It won't fix the bad food or the shitty service to complain.

You could get restitution. You could get the person fired or disciplined. Or perhaps you posted it in a Yelp review or something, and thereby inform others. I've almost never regretted speaking up, I've only regretted staying quiet. If I see someone do something wrong, I'd rather see it addressed and not have it happen again to someone else.

I don't think I've ever done it at a restaurant, but I'm not opposed to it.

I did a brief stint in retail. Based on my experience, it all depends on the manager. If he makes it a priority to have good customer service, he'll do something. If he doesn't give a shit, he probably won't do anything.

Keeping quiet though will certainly do nothing. The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease, but the quiet one never will.

[KorbenDallas]

Not ever going back does something. They go out of business.

Now back to the topic at hand....

I don't think there is enough information to make a truly informed comment on this case. A lot of thought provoking speculation though.

[memcpy]

This story reminds me of what happened to my friend and I'm sure other guys who work any checkout lines at grocery stores.

One day a female co-worker is on her break and decides to buy some chips or something.

My friend innocently said, "hey yeah, I'll check you out." Proceeds to ring up her chips.

The following day he gets reprimanded for sexual harassment for his comment. Had to apologize, but luckily that was all that happened.

The guy in the story probably did something similar-- just a passing comment he thought nothing of.

[Mr West]

(06-13-2015 09:53 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

I must be an insane man. If I got shitty service somewhere, I might inform the manager. If the employee in question gets canned, so be it.

That makes sense, and I have personally gone this route myself a few times to complain about bad service at various places. But would you accuse a bad employee of say, inappropriate misconduct just because he had a crappy personality or attitude? I certainly wouldn't. He might have being weird, I might even complain about his service if it makes sense. But would I ever conflate a bad interaction into something else just to get someone fire? I don't think I would.

(06-13-2015 09:53 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

I should not have to fear that my life is at stake for doing so, and safeguard the mediocrities of the world. And this would be highly exceptional if danger did come to me as a result, so probabilistically speaking, it's not very likely either.

But yes, blame the corpse for doing something fairly routine.

If the guy was legitimately going around on the job doing what would merit sexual harassment complains, I agree with you one hundred percent. My problem is that nowadays most women go through most of their life thinking there are no repercussions for a lot of the uncalled things they do like trying to ruin your livelihood, image, career for no other reason than because you pissed them off. A sizable percentage actually, make it to adulthood with no knowledge of consequences.

They go through life being able to get what they want in critical moments by dropping buzzwords with authority figures like "harassment" or "inappropriate" or "my safety" or just straight up crying to make people do what they want, and it works.

I remember my junior year biology professor in high school. The guy was a prick, he lost work turned in to him and expected you to either do it again or get a respective zero for work HE LOST. I complained to the administration once after the prick refused to do anything about giving me a grade for work I had already completed, but it was three of the females in the class that would file inappropriate misconduct complains (a very serious charge) for no other reason than the guy being a real prick. They were willing to twist the truth just to get their way. Which is my point.

I have no idea just how valid the harassment complains against this dude actually are (for all I know, they might as well be true) but given my experience, it wouldn't surprise me if as I said, she experience some awkward approach by this dude and instead of moving on with her life or calling him out, she was so mad she dropped the "harassment" buzzword to management just to teach this man a lesson (not expecting any sort of consequence for threatening the livelihood of a broke, mentally ill man).

I sure as hell hope it was a case of a wack snapping for no reason at all.

[MMX2010]

(06-13-2015 10:17 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

Not ever going back does something. They go out of business.

Yes, but why? Do you "magically" expect business-owners to know why they went out of business, or do you not think that customer-complaints are helpful to determining why they went out of business?

Edited to add: Basil Ransom, this is the first time I'm reading extended posts of yours on any topic. Thanks for providing your insights here.

[CH-Toronto]

When the Onion predicts the future it's funny. When Roosh does it- it's scary. Fuck, a painful story. Not a justified murder, but it's sad for all parties involved.

[la_mode]

So, if prostitution was legal, he could have banged a woman he found attractive every now & then, and this probably wouldn't have happened.

[iknowexactly]

(06-13-2015 09:28 PM)Mr West Wrote:  

Aside from the very obvious (that is, the minute you cross the line from thinking about murder to actually committing murder out of rage/revenge, you officially crossed the line into the "mental illness" category).

This. If mental illness is pragmatically defined as being unable to function in a given society, then murder is just about the most dysfunctional thing you can do. It means lifetime exile generally.

A large percentage of mental illness is personality disorder. You see it all the time in people who are achieving below their intellectual capability because of being really disagreeable in some way. Some characteristics can play well in one setting ( getting the dork girl here) but ruin you in others ( "showing a bitch.")

A lot of people see mental illness as solely psychotic disorders. That's sort of like saying only fatal heart attacks and cancers are real illnesses.

If he killed the woman because he though she was the vanguard of invaders from Mars, that's a mental illness AND a psychotic disorder. It might even not be technically murder if he wasn't capable of intent.

If he murdered her 'cause "bitches need to be put in their place and he's just the one smart enough to do it"; that strongly points to a personality disorder.

On the other hand, if he got in an argument with her and picked up a vase and hit her once in rage, and it happened to kill her but he hadn't planned it, that might be manslaughter, and he might not have full fledged anti-social personality disorder. Typically, however a person who does this has a history of bullying and qualifies for ASPD.

I've been through these kinds of discussions hundreds of times conferring with other professionals. It how I made the money to be sitting here in the Philippines.

Sorry to go off thread a bit, but it makes sense to consider which cultures this happens in.

Here the girls are really quite polite and apologetic when they turn you down. They seem to sincerely dislike doing it. I don't get mad at them.

I'm getting burnt out on the pollution, but this is a magical place.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(06-13-2015 04:42 PM)rpg Wrote:  

You know I think I was in this guys shoes once on some level. Only married a year, I really wanted to bang one of my wife's friends. Bad. Being married young only fuels the fire to fuck around. A man wants to work magic on other women. An early twenties guy is horny as the sun is hot.
Something clicked. If you really want to fuck around. Go far away from home and fuck someone you will never see again. This guy seems to have tried to get it on where he made his paycheck and it blew up in his face as would have happened to anyone else.

The expression you're looking for is "Don't shit where you eat." It's meant to describe exactly what you're driving at. In other words, if you're married in Brooklyn, for example, be sure to do your fucking around in Queens or the Bronx.

In a sane world, this would be one of the first lessons fathers teach their sons. It's eternally good advice that even extends beyond women into the professional realm (i.e. don't mix your day job and freelance work).

[Aenigmarius]

Using this article/incident to analyze and discuss the general state of our society or other more meta concepts is useful and important.

However, I think trying to analyze or draw conclusions about this particular guy or the "facts" of this particular incident is futile.

We're seeing this through the lens of the media, which means we are getting maybe 80% of the story, probably less, and even what we are getting is probably at least half out of context or downright wrong.

You cannot read an article or see a report on the news and assume you are getting the whole story, or the correct facts. Part of this is because of media bias, but another part of it is that most "reporters" are not particularly smart and are usually pretty lazy. They don't care what is really going on, or what the "truth" is, they just want to write a story that their editor will publish. The truth, the facts, the whole story... none of that shit matters to them.

[The Father]

(06-13-2015 12:10 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Like rape, does the term sexual harassment prettymuch no longer have any real meaning?
IE it's safe to assume there's no chance this guy actually touched her or said anything overtly lewd?

As somebody who's been job hunting for some time now picturing being fired, in this job market, over some twit finding you "creepy"... Sad to say I'm finding it hard to blame him.

"I don't know what you mean about the word 'rape' not having meaning anymore. It means whatever it means to each woman. Stop raping me with your comments"
- Avg western woman