[BronzeAgeGuy713]

Do the approaching and asking out, making the first move, do the active pursuing, etc., while women are the passive when it comes to meeting men, why the man has to initiate/escalate, take the lead, lead, etc.

I believe it was Elliot Hulse that said this, but anyway, here it is:

"How a man and woman physically and sexually are expressed says it all.

Penis - Erects, Goes out, Penetrates, Pushes in, Seeks, Discharges, The sperm finds the egg- not the other way around.
Vagina - Softens, Invites in, Sucks in, Allows, Let's go, Takes in, The Egg waits for the sperm- not the other way around."

Do you think that's the basic long and short of it as to why life, reality is the way it is when it comes to the dating game between men and women, as to why men have to do the approaching, asking out, initiating, etc.?

I wish Elliot Hulse told me that earlier, in my teens, it would have helped me to learn to accept and deal with life, reality a lot better earlier, unfortuneately I can't change the post, nobody can. I remember for a while I was angry, bitter, frustrated and even complained(i'm aware of the fact that complaining, whining will NEVER solve anything), but at times I feel I had to vent over the one-sided role that the guy has to be the initiator, feels like women are spoiled in the dating game, but oh well, like I said, that's life, reality for you, fair or not.

I guess it's because I feel I was never a natural and feel I should have been born with "IT".

So do you think Elliot Hulse completely nailed it?

[monster]

Because we are men.

That may seem simplistic but that is just how it is. According to the quantum forces of the universe the feminine energy is receptive and the male energy is action. Yin and yang. This is not "game" but just an immutable law of nature.

FYI, I believe Elliot got this from David Deida which you may be interested in checking out.

[BronzeAgeGuy713]

(06-07-2015 04:59 PM)monster Wrote:  

Because we are men.

That may seem simplistic but that is just how it is. According to the quantum forces of the universe the feminine energy is receptive and the male energy is action. Yin and yang. This is not "game" but just an immutable law of nature.

FYI, I believe Elliot got this from David Deida which you may be interested in checking out.

well I like Elliot Hulse's answer better, it's more specific, like whenever people give a sarcastic reason in which they don't want to explain anything, people will say things like "why is the Sky blue?", and there is actually a reason why the Sky is blue, if you google it, type it in, it will have scientific reasons explaining why.

Even though I have taken more action, done more approaches in recent years, I feel I do it in a reluctant way, as in I do it because I have to, not because I want to.

[BronzeAgeGuy713]

Basically, whenever I get bitter or resentful over this gender role now, it's not out of a little kid tone of it being not fair, it's due to constantly kicking myself for not mastering, conquering this role, area of my life earlier, I feel very behind in the dating game being a guy my age.

In some ways i'm kinda jealous, envious of women because of how they are valued for their youth more than men are.

[studmuffin52]

I am still far happier and grateful to be male than female. Considering everything together (SMV variables), males have the upper hand.

[BronzeAgeGuy713]

as womens mating market value declines as they get older, in some ways I like to think of that as life, reality giving women karma for their lack of initiative towards men, passiveness when meeting men.

[CaracaoSteel]

In a sexually reproducing species (i.e. not asexual, like an aphid), one sex is much more committed in the rearing of young. In most cases, it is the male (seahorse exception). In mankind, the woman is very invested. Because of the large size of the human brain, babies had to be born far more immature than many mammals, even apes (a horse can run with a her within an hour of birth), so that the head can fit through the birth canal. Thus, after nine months (a quite long gestation period), a human female is now beholden to raise a completely useless offspring. The first four years are tough, it needs constant attention, feeding, bathing, clothing. Humans take 18 years to fully develop, and incredibly long time with contemporary animals.

Now, we have sex. Humans are one of a few known species who have sex for fun (dolphins do, for example). So while we may only intend to fuck for pleasure, we are still using the same primordial instincts for reproduction. And even in the most protected situations, pregnancy is possible (aside from being sterile), and women are the selective sex. Why? Because since sex is for reproduction, and we use instincts for much of our sex lives, women are making a decision as with whom to commit nearly two decades' commitment. They want to select the best traits for their offspring.

[BronzeAgeGuy713]

found this interesting article:http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/06/when-women-pursue-sex-even-men-dont-get-it.html?mid=yahoostyle

[Mister X]

The way I've always seen it is - guys have the chance to fuck whoever it is they approach. Women only fuck guys from the group of dudes bold enough to approach her.

You don't want girls to do the approaching. Because if you think they expect too much from men now, it'll be much worse, as I can assure you not a single girl would approach your average, basic, everyday man.

But the way things are set up - Mr. Average can get laid if he...has the balls to go for it.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(06-07-2015 04:42 PM)BronzeAgeGuy713 Wrote:  

Do the approaching and asking out, making the first move, do the active pursuing, etc., while women are the passive when it comes to meeting men, why the man has to initiate/escalate, take the lead, lead, etc.

I believe it was Elliot Hulse that said this, but anyway, here it is:

"How a man and woman physically and sexually are expressed says it all.

Penis - Erects, Goes out, Penetrates, Pushes in, Seeks, Discharges, The sperm finds the egg- not the other way around.
Vagina - Softens, Invites in, Sucks in, Allows, Let's go, Takes in, The Egg waits for the sperm- not the other way around."

Do you think that's the basic long and short of it as to why life, reality is the way it is when it comes to the dating game between men and women, as to why men have to do the approaching, asking out, initiating, etc.?

I wish Elliot Hulse told me that earlier, in my teens, it would have helped me to learn to accept and deal with life, reality a lot better earlier, unfortuneately I can't change the post, nobody can. I remember for a while I was angry, bitter, frustrated and even complained(i'm aware of the fact that complaining, whining will NEVER solve anything), but at times I feel I had to vent over the one-sided role that the guy has to be the initiator, feels like women are spoiled in the dating game, but oh well, like I said, that's life, reality for you, fair or not.

I guess it's because I feel I was never a natural and feel I should have been born with "IT".

So do you think Elliot Hulse completely nailed it?

Do you think that's the basic long and short of it as to why life, reality is the way it is when it comes to the dating game between men and women, as to why men have to do the approaching, asking out, initiating, etc.?

Not only is it the reason behind how men and women interact when it comes to mating, it's the reason virtually everything around you was built and designed by a man.

Although "man" is a noun, it should also be considered a verb along the lines of "to do" or "to take the initiative." In other words, to be a man is "to do," but to be a woman is "to be." While there are exceptions (lazy men and ambitious females) that doesn't change the general rule.

The reason what Hulce said comes as a surprise is because we're told lies about it in school. Men and women do not have the same ambitions, focus, or even abilities. If men started behaving like women, all reproduction and productivity would cease almost completely.

Feminists shame approaching for the same reason they whine incessantly about all of men's creations while still using them: jealousy. "Approaching is bad!" Yet without it they wouldn't have been born. "The Internet is sexist!" Yet what do they use to communicate? Don't buy into their crap, and if you're still in school and reading this, step back and question what they're teaching and why.

So approaching should not be looked up an something you do. It should be part of your being, just as creating, building, or coming up with ideas is part of your persona.

Addendum: There is a metaphor for all of this in the art world.

If you look at art throughout the ages, men have largely been depicted in action, while women have been shown lying on couches and the like. There is a reason for that. Men look best in action; women look best reclining in Playboy poses. Conversely, women often look ridiculous in "in action" shots and men look sloth-like lazing about.

Remember that if you're putting together an online dating profile.

[mardan]

very simple
whoever holds what the other party wants can sit back and wait for the ones who want what they have come to them

we all want more poon than they want it in them

[Phoenix]

This is universal for species in which the female invests more in the reproduction than the male. The female merely tries to place herself near the best men and presents 'approach invitations'.

There is nothing right or wrong about this, it is just a law of biology.

[BronzeAgeGuy713]

that's why I don't really have any sympathy, empathy, compassion for women as their mating market value declines as they get older, because women don't know the pain, frustration men have to go through when it comes to having to always be assertive, taking action, approaching and asking out, leading, stepping out of your comfort zone, some guys don't develop these traits until later on in life unfortuneately, which i'm slowly developing sadly, and the reason why i'm sometimes envious of how women are valued for their youth more than men are is because I feel women are much less prone than men are to being late bloomers in the dating game, later bloomer as in not becoming a 25+ year old virgin/never been in a relationship before.

Just as life is not fair in general, that's an example of how life is not fair for women, because they lose their mating market value as they get older for the most part.

[Phoenix]

Sure but that's life. I don't fully blame women either. Everyone starts off from a foundation of ideas that come from moral and intellectual authority figures (teachers, parents, figures on TV etc). Unfortunately most of those figures are preaching immoral garbage.

The ideal risk-adjusted mating strategy for women is to have first sex after marrying the highest quality man she can secure around 20 years of age. To this end, authority figures (especially parents, who have a genetic-line stake) should council their daughters to think and behave persuant to this. They should not be encouraging superfluous career and education ambitions that detract from this.

I accept my place, women should accept theirs. I do not aspire to be a strong and fit man, with a good career and financial success, and with admirable traits and skills, for the sake of it. Those things will go with me to the grave afterall. I do so because those things are persuant to my ultimate reproductive success (quality of woman and position of the offspring).

I think the primary cause of the current social malais is simply lazyness. People have become unhinged from reality and their best interests because no one goes to the effort to know what those things are.

[Pride male]

It sucks that men have to approach, initate, get an erection and pump away whilst women do next to nothing . But women dont want to be called sluts.

I suspect it would feel awkward if women approached men and initiated sex. Imagine a girl stroking your thigh and then says, 'Fuck me.' Looks weird.

On the other hand super alphas like Dicaprio get women who initiate sex to them more than your average guy.

[MdWanderer]

(06-08-2015 07:21 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

I suspect it would feel awkward if women approached men and initiated sex. Imagine a girl stroking your thigh and then says, 'Fuck me.' Looks weird.

Seems to happen regularly with 40+ year old divorcees.

[Samseau]

sperm cheap eggs expensive

[BronzeAgeGuy713]

the sperm goes after the egg, the egg does not go after the sperm, I would say that is a fair, good analogy. I will admit, it gets annoying, irritating, frustrating whenever people say it is never too late or you have plenty of time, better late than never, it's not a race, YA WELL IT FUCKIN' MATTERS TO ME!!!!

[BronzeAgeGuy713]

the reason why is because I have often felt for a while now, that if I ever do fix my issues with women and I start having the dating life/sex life I always wanted, I will never be able to heal the mental wounds, mental scars of what I missed out on when I was younger, as in I didn't have a girlfriend when I was in my late teens or early 20's like most guys do, I feel like if I ever do get a girlfriend, and i'm with her holding hands in public and I see all these couples out there younger than me, it will be a painful reminder of what I didn't get to have or experience earlier.

That's why I have often felt unmotivated to take action to fix my issues with women, because i'll always be behind, I can't be like most people, I hate being different.

[Samseau]

(06-08-2015 04:15 PM)BronzeAgeGuy713 Wrote:  

the reason why is because I have often felt for a while now, that if I ever do fix my issues with women and I start having the dating life/sex life I always wanted, I will never be able to heal the mental wounds, mental scars of what I missed out on when I was younger, as in I didn't have a girlfriend when I was in my late teens or early 20's like most guys do, I feel like if I ever do get a girlfriend, and i'm with her holding hands in public and I see all these couples out there younger than me, it will be a painful reminder of what I didn't get to have or experience earlier.

That's why I have often felt unmotivated to take action to fix my issues with women, because i'll always be behind, I can't be like most people, I hate being different.

Bro, I didn't lose my virginity until I was 24... and yet here I am, with some of the highest rep on the forum from any game posts. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and find a place to make approaches and hone your game. Keep trying until you succeed and find a niche. Or die whining.

[Brian Shima]

(06-08-2015 06:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 04:15 PM)BronzeAgeGuy713 Wrote:  

the reason why is because I have often felt for a while now, that if I ever do fix my issues with women and I start having the dating life/sex life I always wanted, I will never be able to heal the mental wounds, mental scars of what I missed out on when I was younger, as in I didn't have a girlfriend when I was in my late teens or early 20's like most guys do, I feel like if I ever do get a girlfriend, and i'm with her holding hands in public and I see all these couples out there younger than me, it will be a painful reminder of what I didn't get to have or experience earlier.

That's why I have often felt unmotivated to take action to fix my issues with women, because i'll always be behind, I can't be like most people, I hate being different.

Bro, I didn't lose my virginity until I was 24... and yet here I am, with some of the highest rep on the forum from any game posts. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and find a place to make approaches and hone your game. Keep trying until you succeed and find a niche. Or die whining.

I am curious as to how it took you that long to lose it? And how did you make the change to be a successful PUA? That is AMAZING dude.

[Samseau]

(06-08-2015 08:02 PM)Brian Shima Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 06:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-08-2015 04:15 PM)BronzeAgeGuy713 Wrote:  

the reason why is because I have often felt for a while now, that if I ever do fix my issues with women and I start having the dating life/sex life I always wanted, I will never be able to heal the mental wounds, mental scars of what I missed out on when I was younger, as in I didn't have a girlfriend when I was in my late teens or early 20's like most guys do, I feel like if I ever do get a girlfriend, and i'm with her holding hands in public and I see all these couples out there younger than me, it will be a painful reminder of what I didn't get to have or experience earlier.

That's why I have often felt unmotivated to take action to fix my issues with women, because i'll always be behind, I can't be like most people, I hate being different.

Bro, I didn't lose my virginity until I was 24... and yet here I am, with some of the highest rep on the forum from any game posts. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and find a place to make approaches and hone your game. Keep trying until you succeed and find a niche. Or die whining.

I am curious as to how it took you that long to lose it? And how did you make the change to be a successful PUA? That is AMAZING dude.

About a year and a half of studying game from 22.5-24.

[Phoenix]

Yeah it's never too late. I hadn't even kissed by 24, and managed to flip that whole situation on its head. OP needs to stop being a sook. Forcible and multi-pronged action, now.

With regards to 'never had it in youth' feeling, you find that after you change it doesn't even feel like you are the same person. For instance, I generally refer to the early 20s and teen Phoenix as 'him', rather than 'me', because that person is simply so unrecognizable and incomprehensible now. For that reason you stop seeing it as 'why did I fail/go without', and see it as 'why didn't his friends and family help guide him', 'if I'd been there he wouldn't have suffered', and 'I can't change what happened to him but I can redouble MY successes' etc.

[CactusCat589]

Yes. Be grateful for it, because 99% of us would not be approached if women were responsible for initiating. Think of everyone you've been to a party or club and seen the most attractive girls swarmed, but the not-so-good-looking ones neglected. It'd be the same if it were the other way around, but much worse.

If you're lucky enough to have the quality of genes that girls approach you (twice or three times a night out or something), you should commit to approaching anyway.

The most realistic thing you can expect is for girls to be receptive and make it easy to talk to them. But you must go up to them and start talking.

[Dalaran1991]

Everyone forgot an overlooked aspect: if girls were doing the initiating, RVF members would be fucking bombarded with invitation/approaches from landwhales and troglodytes, while the cute girls would only approach the hottest looking guys.

No, just no. I prefer to be the initiator and only approach the girls I think look cute. Fat and ugly women can stay out of my reality.

I guess this is the same "problem" hot girls have. they get bombarded by guys they dont want, but unlike us they get an ego boost and attention whoring out of it.