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Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs
#1

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

On Heartiste's Twitter feed, I noticed a link to this extremely verbose document. As an atheist attempting to understand the history and other material covered in the bible, I found this entire post striking. I've included key bolded parts in quotes below.

This time period is interesting because it's at the peak of Roman power, and thus at the beginning of its decline. Arguably, the West is in the same state or past it, or can at least be remarked to be in a similar situation and vulnerable to the same diseases of civilization.

http://orthosphere.org/2015/05/16/plotin...nosticism/

Key to the author's discussion is the statements that contemporaries of the Christian sect, the Gnostics, had to say about their attitudes. It's amazingly similar to modern attitudes that SJWs and others have towards society. I believe that Aurini remarked before on the idea that modern atheism or secularism is actually just a branch of Christianity, as it has preserved a lot of the culture within it. This follows in that same vein.

The Gnostics apparently:
Despised beauty for its own sake
[Image: tumblr_lglaq4cvgA1qcvc7qo1_500.jpg]

Did not believe in virtue
[Image: shirtgate3-500x332.png]

Organized rallies against professors they determined their enemies






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The illuminatus, in Plotinus’ words, “Carps at Providence and the Lord of Providence.” So too the illuminatus “scorns every law known to us,” while of “immemorial virtue and all restraint” he “makes… a laughing stock, lest any loveliness be seen on earth.” The doctrine of the illuminatus, making use of sarcasm and denunciation, “cuts at the root of all orderly living.” Or as Plotinus says of the illuminati, “They know nothing good here,” for to acknowledge goodness would be to disavow total moral superiority.

Plotinus notices that the Gnostics avoid giving definitions or explanations. Thus while the Gnostics claim moral superiority to other people, they disdain any discussion of virtue: “We are not told [by the illuminati] what virtue is or under what different kinds it appears; there is no word of all the numerous and noble reflections upon it that have come down to us from the ancients.” If anyone were to inquire directly of the Gnostics about these matters, the Gnostics would reply with their cryptic, “Look to God.” The Gnostic exclusion of the literary archive is particularly striking. In addition to being antinomian and anticosmic in their disposition, the Gnostics, as Plotinus describes them, are also anti-historical. The phrase, “Look to God,” irritates Plotinus because God, in his understanding, is rational and provides definitions and explanations, at least by indirection, through his works. Plato’s dialogues, which Plotinus has studied, are famous for Socrates’ insistence on defining terms precisely.

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When Gnostics say, “Look to God,” they are invoking the knowledge-without-experience, the secret knowledge that the word Gnosis denotes. Such proprietary knowledge they specifically refuse to share with outsiders because possession of it – or the claim to possess it, for that is all that the outsider has on which to base his judgment concerning the claimant – is what differentiates the illuminati from the vulgate. Indeed, the secret knowledge cannot be shared, not even should someone in possession of it feel moved to share it. Thus by virtue (so to speak) of their secret knowledge, the Gnostics consider themselves elect; they are ontologically different from and elevated above ordinary people. Gnostics are thus an extreme in-group phenomenon. Under this conviction of supreme differentiation, they “proceed to assert that Providence cares for them alone.” When the Hidden God abolishes the corrupt world, only those whose being has been transfigured by secret knowledge will remain, and they, too, shall be as gods. Compared to those in whom the secret knowledge does not reside, and who are therefore not transfigured, the illuminati are already as gods. They may mock and revile their ontological inferiors – and invariably they do so.

We have remarked that Plotinus discerns in the Gnostic disposition several types of resentment: Envy of standing and wealth in the social order, with a concomitant and hypocritical advantage-seeking; jealously against the structure of existence, and disdain for the past and for its inheritance in the present. Correlated with “despising the world and all that is in it,” as Plotinus remarks, is the Gnostic orientation to a post-apocalyptic future in whose realization all attitudes contrary to the Gnostic attitude shall be humiliated and banished while the Gnostic antipathy to tradition will be justified in a triumph. Plotinus writes of the Gnostics that, “All they care for is something else [than the structure of existence in the present] to which they will at some future time apply themselves.”

It might surprise modern readers that Plotinus, a mystic of the Neo-Platonic school, should defend the goodness of the material world, but this surprise would stem from an unfortunate modern misconception about Plato and Platonism. For Plato, as for Plotinus, existence has distinguishable aspects – the sensible and the intelligible – but these aspects belong to a unitary whole. Platonism is not dualism, nor is it world-rejection, despite what Friedrich Nietzsche claims in The Twilight of the Idols and The Anti-Christ.

Addressing the Gnostic loathing for physical reality, Plotinus poses rhetorically, “Who that truly perceives the harmony of the Intellectual Realm [the Ideas] could fail, if he has any bent towards music, to answer to the harmony in sensible sounds?” Likewise, Plotinus asks, “What geometrician or arithmetician could fail to take pleasure in the symmetries, correspondences, and principles of order observed in visible things?” Plotinus claims that the Gnostics harbor hatred even for the cosmetic beauty of comely individuals: “Now if the sight of beauty excellently reproduced upon a face hurries the mind to that other Sphere [the Intellectual Realm], surely no one seeing the loveliness lavish in the world of sense – this vast orderliness, the Form which the stars even in their remoteness display – no one could be so dull-witted, so immovable, as not to be carried by all this recollection, and gripped by reverent awe in the thought of all this, so great, sprung from that greatness.” To revile beauty, a proclivity which Plotinus ascribes to the Gnostics, would be consistent with their attitude of “censure.”

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A certain intellectual democracy is also implicit in the same words, for according to the gist of them non-philosophers, when they respond to cosmetic beauty or the sublimity of nature, respond indeed to the same supernal order as that studied in a more sophisticated way by the philosopher. The ground of philosophy consists in the average person’s openness to reality, his vulnerability to beauty: “The very experience out of which Love arises.” In spurning that experience, and that openness, the illuminati exhibit, as Plotinus puts it, “the perverse pride of despising what was once admired.”

According to Plotinus, Gnostics argue that, “They see no difference between beautiful and ugly forms of body.” It should strike no one, therefore, as unexpected that Gnostics also, in Plotinus’ words, “make no distinction between the ugly and the beautiful in conduct.” This remark communicates with the other, earlier remark in Plotinus’ treatise – the one concerning Gnostic evasiveness about defining virtue. To deny beauty in one aspect of existence, the corporeal, is, in principle, to deny it in all other aspects of existence, as for instance in the moral aspect. To equivocate about quality and degree is, moreover, to attack the connection between hierarchy and order, while at the same time establishing a new, crude hierarchy. In this reactionary conception of and response to hierarchy, one difference alone is paramount: The election of the elite minority, guaranteed by their secret knowledge, over against the damnation of the preterit majority. Plotinus need not be referring to the bearing of individuals, but merely to the doctrine in and of itself, when he invokes the word “arrogant” as a label appropriate to Gnosticism.

Although Plotinus never directly remarks the aggressiveness of the illuminati, the existence of his treatise implies it. Plotinus ran a type of school or college, in whose precincts he lectured on the Platonic philosophy. In the Third Century, Platonism functioned in many ways like a religion or as a coherent ethical system, as did also Stoicism and (increasingly) Christianity. In Against the Gnostics, Plotinus is apparently responding formally to disputatious Gnostic infiltration of his lectures, with disruptive objections and derailing pseudo-inquiries during the question-and-answer.

We can understand such aggression as belonging to the inherent intolerance of Gnostic believers for any interpretation of reality other than their own, an intolerance made worse by the lack of originality in Gnostic doctrine, which appropriates elements of established doctrine and crudely reverses them. By obliterating the model, the sectarian may better advertise his derivative as original. This obliteration of the original is, by the way, the modus operandi of Islam, which, fiercely anti-historical, attempts always and everywhere to destroy any and every vestige of the non-Islamic past. It is entirely possible that Islam is a surviving offspring of Late-Antique Gnosticism. Islam has roots in two Christian heresies that exhibited Gnostic tendencies – Sabellianism and Monophysitism. The Islamic scriptural convention of abrogation, whereby a later Koranic verse abolishes an earlier one, is paradigmatically Gnostic.

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Plotinus employs an elaborate metaphor to sum up the hypocrisy, as he sees it, of Gnostic anticosmic complaint. It is as though, he writes, “two people inhabit one stately house,” the house, of course, being the cosmos itself. One of these inhabitants, grumbling about the house, “declaims against its plan and against its Architect, but none the less retains his residence in it.” In doing so, “the malcontent imagines himself to be wiser” than his co-dweller; and he thinks of his inability “to bear with necessity” as a higher wisdom. Plotinus’ word, “necessity,” means the structure of existence, as it is given. The grumbler execrates “the soulless stone and timber” out of which the house is constructed. As for the co-dweller, he “makes no complaint,” but rather he “asserts the competency of the Architect.” Plotinus attributes to the disgruntled inhabitant a type of dissimulated envy, “a secret admiration for the beauty of those same ‘stones,’” whose supposed soullessness and degraded materiality he so volubly and inveterately deplores.

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Plotinus discerned in the Valentinian Gnostics and their writings the traits of an anticosmic attitude as well as of an obsessive antinomianism; he also grasped that Gnosticism was unoriginal, borrowing from established schools while simultaneously denouncing the sources from which it borrowed. Augustine makes similar observations, using a rhetorical structure resembling Plotinus’ parable of the house with two dwellers. Augustine notes that the Manichaeans constantly addressed the Old Testament, not in admiration, but for the sake of condemning the Patriarchs. If a Patriarch had many wives, then the Manichaeans, who abhor procreation, would revile him; if another Patriarch were at first willing to offer human sacrifice, then the Manichaeans would revile him, even though he relented, as God commanded, and afterwards foreswore the practice. For the Manichaeans any goodness save their own is intolerable. Only the revelation of the final prophet can constitute a precedent, as absurd as that proposition sounds.

Augustine writes: “It is as if a man in an armory, not knowing what piece goes on what part of the body, should put a grieve on his head and a helmet on his shin and complain because they did not fit. Or again, as if, in a house, he sees a servant handle something that the butler is not permitted to touch, or when something is done behind the stable that would be prohibited in a dining room, and then a person should be indignant that in one house and one family the same things are not allowed to every member of the household.” This passage captures by metaphor the essentially plundering and resentful character of Gnosticism, which finds every inherited injunction intolerable. Tearing down the institutions, the Gnostic then tries to build new institutions, suiting his own whims, by reassembling the pieces. The result is like a modern sculpture put together according to the aesthetic of “found objects” or asserting the supremacy of a political notion. It is merely an obscene joke.


This was a very interesting read, and continues further, getting into Augustine and other discussion in the comments. This is not some big "oohh look, a conspiracy!" notion, it is only an observation that human behavior has not changed for 2000 years, and there is a distinct precedent for what we are observing and commenting on here.
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#2

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

The gnostics were secretly goddess worshipers. They believed God who created this world is evil but his mother who has sent the brother of this evil god, that brother being Christ, was good. They sort of fallowed a twisted version of Jesus but they didn't give credit to him but to some imaginary feminine idol who was his mother (heavenly mother not to confuse with Mary the earthly mother). They were either against sex and procreation or they indulged in great orgies but were against procreation still, and were generally sad and negative people seeing bad things everywhere, thus coming to hate the God who created the world. This is similar to hate of patriarchy that created civilization and similar to hate of natural order we see SJW displaying.

So yeah good observation, they are similar to SJW, the same spirit might be leading both.
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#3

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

dupe
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#4

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Awesome thread, but thread title is misleading. Gnostics were not Christians, although there may have been a few gnostic sects who claimed they were Christian. But overall, gnostics and Christians were very different and actually waged war against one another quite often if I'm not mistaken.

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#5

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Quote: (06-02-2015 02:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Awesome thread, but thread title is misleading. Gnostics were not Christians, although there may have been a few gnostic sects who claimed they were Christian. But overall, gnostics and Christians were very different and actually waged war against one another quite often if I'm not mistaken.

Not sure I agree there. There were definitely non-Christian Gnostics, but the Valentinians were the most populous Gnostic branch (IIRC) and they were explicitly Christian (although perhaps not doctrinally so). That the early church was intent on distinguishing Gnostics from Christianity is something I take as evidence not that they were incompatible and opposed belief systems, but that these two groups were overlapping quite a bit.

As for whether Gnosticism has anything to tell us about SJW - Probably not. SJWs are, almost by definition, historically ignorant and driven by their own emotions and neuroses. If you ask a SJW about the Nag Hammadi codices they are going to give you a blank stare.
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#6

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Some Gnostic texts even influenced other major religions centuries later. For example, the infancy stories of Jesus in the Quran (he could speak as a baby, he created a bird out of clay and breathed life into it, etc.) were taken from the Gospel of Thomas, a book in circulation by Gnostic communities in Egypt and the Arabian peninsula around the time of Mohammed. Good article about it here: https://futiledemocracy.wordpress.com/20...the-quran/
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#7

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Quote: (06-02-2015 01:25 AM)Mage Wrote:  

The gnostics were secretly goddess worshipers. They believed God who created this world is evil but his mother who has sent the brother of this evil god, that brother being Christ, was good. They sort of fallowed a twisted version of Jesus but they didn't give credit to him but to some imaginary feminine idol who was his mother (heavenly mother not to confuse with Mary the earthly mother). They were either against sex and procreation or they indulged in great orgies but were against procreation still, and were generally sad and negative people seeing bad things everywhere, thus coming to hate the God who created the world. This is similar to hate of patriarchy that created civilization and similar to hate of natural order we see SJW displaying.

So yeah good observation, they are similar to SJW, the same spirit might be leading both.

''heavenly mother not to confuse with Mary the earthly mother''

Unfortunately the title for Mary which is "Queen of Heaven" may suggest that the church did not escape Gnostic influence. Which is not far off from heavenly mother.
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#8

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Quote: (06-02-2015 04:27 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

''heavenly mother not to confuse with Mary the earthly mother''

Unfortunately the title for Mary which is "Queen of Heaven" may suggest that the church did not escape Gnostic influence. Which is not far off from heavenly mother.

This may be and may not be Gnostic influence. The simple truth is that the binary nature if human sexes is present at all times and at all times there are those who would try to move away from a masculine God in order to revive goddess worship either by forming new cults or within the frame of current mainstream religion.
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#9

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

I don't buy all the arguments of the early church against the group that is called Gnostics now.

The early church lumped in pretty much everything together with them and made up stuff that they were eating babies (sounds familiar with modern propaganda).

The early Christian Gnostics were actually supposed to be similar to the New Testament with the main difference that they did not think that Jesus was THE SON OF GOD, but a man who achieved a high state of consciousness - a saint if you will - and we could achieve that too.

Also they did not believe in eternal hell and damnation, but in reincarnation. The early church was supposed to have moved brutally against them.

There may have been other sects in those early times, but that is the gist of it.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/Lost-Doct...ity003.htm


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In the Secret Book of John, reincarnation is placed at the heart of its discussion of the salvation of souls. The book was written by 185 AD at the latest. Here is the Secret Book of John's perspective on reincarnation:


"All people have drunk the water of forgetfulness and exist in a state of ignorance. Some are able to overcome ignorance through the Spirit of life that descends upon them. These souls "will be saved and will become perfect," that is, escape the round of rebirth. John asks Jesus what will happen to those who do not attain salvation. They are hurled down "into forgetfulness" and thrown into "prison", the Gnostic code word for new body. The only way for these souls to escape, says Jesus, is to emerge from forgetfulness and acquire knowledge. A soul in this situation can do so by finding a teacher or savior who has the strength to lead her home. "This soul needs to follow another soul in whom the Spirit of life dwells, because she is saved through the Spirit. Then she will never be thrust into flesh again." (Secret Book of John)

Personally that makes more sense to me than the current dogmas taught by the church - one life, then hell or heaven forever etc.

Also it is hard to compare actual notes when almost anything about those groups was compiled by the early Christian church as it was consolidating a hold on the religion. Some time ago I studied those texts as I researched early Christian texts and found many more such excellent examples of love, understanding and spiritual teachings. Only later did I find out that the Roman church had an own interpretation of the Gnostics which somehow focused on human sacrifice, eating of babies etc - so far it reminds me of the fake Iraqi accounts of Kuwaiti babies being thrown on the street to die (all proven to be false propaganda). Now imagine - that shit happened just decades ago and they pulled it off. What are the chances for the early Christian church to manage faulty accounts to scare the population from the Gnostics as they were just creating a unified lore among various early sects? They would write the worst things just to scare the common folk away from that - even if the Gnostics used actual words of Jesus as some claim, the church would use every mean possible to enforce their doctrine.


Personally I would not give credence to that or even compare them to the doctrine of the SJWs, which are decidedly marxist.
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#10

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Interesting, Zel. The timeframe for this period is very interesting to me. There must have been a lot going on politically at the time, and something that has colored my reading of the NT is the approximate date of the main gospels, which were written decades after the death of Jesus. That's a lot of time for the oral history of his words to spread and get modified, as well as politics to become heavily involved. Hence, the existence of different sects and disinformation.

Anyway, I'm not making a claim to know a lot about this subject or to be anything other than someone who read this and found it interesting.
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#11

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Quote: (06-02-2015 12:19 PM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  

Interesting, Zel. The timeframe for this period is very interesting to me. There must have been a lot going on politically at the time, and something that has colored my reading of the NT is the approximate date of the main gospels, which were written decades after the death of Jesus. That's a lot of time for the oral history of his words to spread and get modified, as well as politics to become heavily involved. Hence, the existence of different sects and disinformation.

Anyway, I'm not making a claim to know a lot about this subject or to be anything other than someone who read this and found it interesting.

People often forget that the reason the gospels can only be dated after 70 AD was because before that date, the Jews hunted down any followers of Christ and burned their books. It wasn't until Jerusalem fell against the wrath of God by the Roman's hands were Christians able to produce the works created by the apostles without being hunted down all the time.

Hence, the Book of Matthew (I consider it to be the best gospel, hands down) is also the earliest one we can date back to around 77 AD or so.

This wasn't because people decided not to write anything for 77 years, but because once major Jewish power was eradicated could the word of Christ be told without persecution. So in reality, most of what you read in the Gospels is probably very close to what was written right after the death of Christ.

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#12

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

This is basically the neoreactionary position on leftism isn't it?
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#13

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

I'm going to come at this from a different angle. Even if the Gnostics weren't Christians, it doesn't negate the fact that the current 'Church' has been compromised. By who? We don't know, we only know that these people are the ones pushing liberalism down our throats, and playing with scriptures. People should start by looking into Sedevacantism. The Church is no longer to be trusted. I thought this was common sense nowadays.

There are groups you can talk to, they will find you, if you are willing.

Out of the woodwork, into the night, onto the moonlit veranda.
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#14

Jawdropping similarities between ancient Christian sect and modern SJWs

Quote: (06-02-2015 02:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Awesome thread, but thread title is misleading. Gnostics were not Christians, although there may have been a few gnostic sects who claimed they were Christian. But overall, gnostics and Christians were very different and actually waged war against one another quite often if I'm not mistaken.

St. Paul spent most of the latter part of his ministry fighting this heresy.

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