[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

Datasheet: Kingston, Ontario

Background: Kingston is a city of roughly 120,000 people that lies on the St. Lawrence River, halfway between Toronto and Montreal. Its small side is belied by its outsized contribution to Canada’s history. Its strategic location at the intersection of the head of the St. Lawrence Seaway and the southern end of the Rideau Canal led Kingston in the 1800s to serve as a strategic military site against the threat of an American invasion of British North America. Among other claims to fame, it served briefly as the initial capital of the united Province of Canada from 1841 to 1844, is the birthplace of Canada’s modern flag (derived from the design of my alma mater, the Royal Military College of Canada), and claims to be the birthplace of the modern game of hockey, Canada’s national past-time. More narrowly, for those of us interested in gaming chicks, some of you may know it as the place which would launch the pickup career of Owen Cook - otherwise known as RSD Tyler, the founder and CEO of Real Social Dynamics (who would start learning game after getting dumped by his girlfriend while attending university here.)

Having used this city as the main incubator of my game skills for the last three years while studying here, and seeing that there exists no current information for it on the forum, I feel like it’d be a good way to give back to the forum to drop some info on this rarely-mentioned but potentially good city.

Why Kingston: Kingston is, first and foremost, a university town. There are three major academic institutions in this city, with students from all across Canada:

Queen’s University. The largest university in Kingston, and likely the sole reason that this city is worthy of a datasheet. Founded by royal charter in 1841, its student body enrolment currently stands at about 25,000 students – nearly one-fourth the total population of Kingston itself. In line with the current trend of declining male enrolment in universities, Queen’s gender ratio currently sits at something like 58% F to 42% M, across all undergraduate programs. Queens usually ranks 4th-5th in most Canadian university rankings, so its students tend to skew disproportionately to the upper-middle class spectrum.

St. Lawrence College. This regional college has a Kingston campus of roughly 4,000 students. Most of the students that go here are from Kingston and the surrounding towns and rural area along Highway 401, the main Toronto – Montreal highway that passes through the city.

Royal Military College of Canada. The smallest of the three institutions, at a student body of roughly 1200 cadets (including yours truly.) Founded in 1876, its flag was the inspiration for the current design of Canada’s national flag. As can be indicated by its name, it serves as the main service academy of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Kingston is a good idea to check out if you’re one of these things:
-Undergraduate Canadian (or international) student looking for a good party town with solid logistics
-Under 30 professional with reasonable game who can travel and is sick of dealing with the pussy wasteland that is Toronto
-You’re of any age but are pretty good at picking up Anglo college chicks (paging Giovanny….)

Best Period to Visit: Without a doubt, the best time to visit is in the period between mid-August and mid-October. This is the time during which Frosh Week, the first week of undergraduate classes, takes place in Canada (specifically, the first full week of September.) During this time, everyone and their dog is going out at night to party, get drunk, and try to hook up – your chances for approaches will be virtually limitless. You’ll have access to lots of drunk freshmen new to the area, without formed social circles, and likely having unrestricted access to alcohol for the first time and wanting to use it – a player’s nirvana. From the time of November – April at least, the weather becomes pretty much intolerable for those not used to Canadian winters – not forgetting the fact that it’s made worse by the fact that Kingston is one of the windiest cities in North America. Nightgame and daygame become progressively more difficult as the biting cold and daily snowstorms frequently become your biggest cockblock. Past April through to mid August is when most students are away from school on holidays and the city goes comparatively dead. Mid-August – mid October is where the fun’s at. (That being said, don’t underestimate the willingness of Kingston students to brave -20C weather in order to get drunk downtown.)

Getting to Kingston: As mentioned above, Kingston lies right on Highway 401, roughly halfway between Toronto and Montreal. It’s about a three-hour drive from both. For those visiting from outside Canada, there are multiple buses that pass through Kingston on their way from either Montreal or Toronto each day. Megabus.ca is a good place to find bus tickets from either city to Kingston. As well, Norman Rogers Airport has multiple scheduled flights each day from Pearson International Airport in Toronto.

The Girls of Kingston: Much as they might be the source of frustrations and struggle on my part, I have to hand it to this city – there’s a pretty good amount of talent here. As usual, your ability to access it depends on your venue selection and level of game, but for the well-rounded player there’s plenty of thin, good-looking pussy to be had. You’ll have to deal with the standard cockblocks, Western attitudes, and fatties, to be sure, and there is still a very prevalent post-drinking fast-food rush that is not only distasteful but an impediment to gaming, but theste are not anywhere near the level that you’d see in a place like Toronto. They can be broken down into four main subsets – Queens girls, SLC girls, RMC girls, and the ‘townies.’

Queens Girls – these will be your bread and butter. Lots of thin, good-looking girls who love getting drunk and partying. Not much in the way issue regarding races or ethnicities – I’ve seen plenty of black, Asian, even Indian guys having success here. Canadian girls, for all their faults, are relatively race-friendly on the whole, in my experience. As usual, though, expect that the better-looking girls will come with a proportionate rise in attitude from the attention they get from Queens’ guys.

SLC Girls – usually less-well off financially and academically, they’ll be easier to pick-up but the quality will likely take a proportionate slide. I have less experience with these girls than I do Queens girls, but in my time here, by far the sluttiest girl that I’ve banged was an SLC student. Whether you perceive that or not will likely depend on your own experience coming here.

RMC Girls – unless you actually go here as a cadet, don’t bother. In four years here neither I nor any of my close player friends here have seen or heard of an RMC girl get into a hookup with a non-RMC guy. The gender ratio at RMC is something like 4-5:1 in their favour, and that’s with a disproportionate number of guys who are athletic, predisposed to alpha-type leadership qualities, and extroverted-personality types who love drinking and partying. The oft-cited 80/20 phenomena is in full-swing (in fact, that might actually understate it here). For their own part, RMC has bred guys who are capable of both awe-inspiring feats of player-dom and disgustingly horrendous acts of simpery and thirst. Focus elsewhere.

Townies– they’ll be more prevalent when all the students are gone for the summer. My experience tells me that the quality drop-off here is significant. Score them as another likely avoid.

Nightgame: One of Kingston's stronger points is that the nightlife is super-concentrated. Within a one-block radius in the downtown area (the intersection of Princess and Division Streets) is the area known to all who reside here as "the Hub," Kingston's main nightlife area.


Seriously, everything you need is right there.

The area is well-known enough that virtually all the venues in this area are owned by one company, the Hub Group Inc., which runs the nightlife in this area almost as a monopoly. However, there have been venues that have been opening up recently that aren't under Hub Group ownership. There are eight main venues here to be reviewed - four clubs and four bars/pubs.



Clubs:

Stages Nightclub:



The most popular and busiest venue in all of Kingston, it currently stands as the longest continuously-operating nightclub in Canada (having operated under the same name since the late 1980's.) Its name comes from the elevated dancing platforms that lie beside the main dancefloor. This club has been the incubator and testbed for most of my game over the last three years, so it's the venue that I'll have the most detailed information on. (I could probably write an entire free-standing datasheet for this place alone.) Its current weekly lineup is as follows:

- Monday (from mid-April to mid October): Beachslam. Beach-themed party, playing 80's and 90's pop hits (get ready to hear a lot of hits by N'Sync and the Spice Girls.)
- Thursday: Stage Rage. Reduced cost drinks ($2.50 bar-rail as opposed to the usual $5.50). One of the two good nights for Stages on a weekly basis.
- Friday: Ladies Night. Girls get free cover before midnight. This is Stages' worst night, as the large number of girls is more than counteracted by the significantly elevated levels of cockblocking and bitch shields that you'll experience. Girls usually go on Friday nights to dance with their friends and "be seen", not to hook up. Expect mixed sets and large all-girl sets, with unforgivingly ruthless cockblocks at the slightest of approaches.
- Saturday: Synergy Saturday. Nothing special, but for whatever reason, the girls here on Saturday are way more receptive to approaches and way friendlier on this night. Girls so inclined usually reserve Saturday night as their "find-a-hookup" night, in my experience, and they usually come to this place to find it. You'll see way less cockblocking, and more small-number all-girl sets - usually no more than pairs or three-sets. This is likely the best night for getting laid in the entire Kingston weekly lineup.

The downside to this venue is much like what you're going to see with other nightclubs filled with students - it's super-loud, making game difficult to run, and many if not most of the girls are going to be focused on dancing rather than chatting up an interesting, well-traveled foreigner. On the other hand, though, this venue usually holds the best quality in the entire city. As well, there are plenty of areas away from the speakers where it's easier to hold a conversation. Like the rest of Kingston, on a normal night Stages will usually get busy starting at about 11-11:30 pm. The ratio usually starts pretty favourably for guys, especially on the dancefloor where for a period of roughly 30-45 minutes it'll virtually be all girls. Once the flood of guys starts getting in at about 11:45-midnight, the ratio will start to go south. Get your approaches in early while you still can.

AleHouse:



The other major nightclub venue in the Hub. I used to go to this place more often, but started to drift away from it to Stages as time went on. It's still a place worthy of checking out, but my experience tells me that the social circles are usually stronger on average here as opposed to Stages.

What is specifically notable for this venue, however, is its Tuesday country-themed music night - Tumbleweed Tuesdays. This single night usually gets the highest-tier of quality that you will find for nightlife here in Kingston - my friends would usually rave endlessly to me about how much hotter the girls were at "Tumble" as opposed to the other nights. Other than Tuesday, it's only open on Friday and Saturday nights as well.

The Spot Nightclub:



The smallest of the four nightclubs being reviewed here, it was up until recently the only venue within the Hub area owned independently, outside of the control of the Hub Group Inc. In contrast to the other clubs, the Spot usually charges no cover and the drinks are usually about a third less. However, the downside to that is that the talent here takes a slide. As well, the small, almost cramped size of the venue means that it is hard to run approaches here without being soon noticed by other people as doing so. I find that this place is usually best for getting there early before the rush, quickly pre-drinking if you haven't already done so, and running a warm-up approach or two before heading over to one of the other venues.

Fluid Nightclub



This is the newest addition to the Kingston nightclub lineup - having just opened last year. Also not owned by the Hub Group, so its drinks are relatively cheaper than Stages or Ale. Logistically speaking, this is the best structured nightclub, with only two straight bars for everyone to get drinks from, meaning you can make plenty of bar approaches. However, it isn't as popular with the Kingston students as Stages or AleHouse is, since it's still not nearly as well-established. Crowds here tend to be spillover that couldn't get into either Stages or Ale since the lines were too long. On the other hand, though, this is a good place to end the night or venue-change if you've had no luck at the other venues or need to bounce a chick away from her friends before going home with them. I believe that it's usually only open on Friday and Saturday nights.



Bars/Pubs:

Canteen: The most popular bar-type venue here in Kingston. It's a sub-part of AleHouse, and shares the same building with it, with outside seating out front. There are lots of tables, and social-circles will likely be harder to crack then at any of the clubs, but the lower volume and bitch-shields will likely make it easier to run game. Since there is a high volume of students here and the quality's still good, if you're over 30 and/or can't stand or don't fit into nightclubs, this is likely the best venue for you to run game in Kingston.
Grizzly Grill: This venue is where Kingston's over-30s demographic come to drink. The quality here is terrible - don't bother running game here. On the other hand, the upstairs area - with lounge seating and pool tables - is perfect as a date venue.
The Brass Pub: More sports-bar oriented, it's also not that good a place to run game, as it'll mostly be a sausagefest. This is a great place to go with your buds and watch the hockey game - less so to chase chicks. Their nachos are insanely good, though. Highly recommend them.
The Brooklyn: This used to be an insanely sketchy biker/skinhead bar that got turned into a pretty cool-looking venue. If the Canteen isn't giving you any luck, I'd suggest coming here as a second option if you feel compelled to avoid the nightclubs.

Outside of the Hub, there are two venues - one club, one bar/pub - on the Queen's University campus which are exclusive to Queens' students. I can't say anything as to them since I haven't been, but from what I've heard they're nothing to write home about.

Daygame: For the last three years I've mostly focused on nightgame, so my daygame knowledge is comparatively limited, but Kingston still holds potential in that regard. Along Princess and on Division Street (between Princess Street and Queen's University) there are at least three Starbucks that usually have plenty of attractive college females come through during the day. As well, the campus area of Queens' is pretty good as well, so long as the weather is favourable (which itself can be a pretty tall order.) GALNUC-style indirect game will do you fine here - Canadian girls are little different from American girls in that regard.

Online: Tinder. Don't bother with anything else. It's exactly like everywhere else for quality. If it works for you elsewhere, it'll work here.

To Sum Up: Kingston offers potential for the game-conscious male, whether in your early 20's and looking for a good place to go to university, or as an older guy who has plenty of game experience under his belt. Anyone with specific questions that I haven't been able to answer above, feel free to PM with your comments and I'll answer them as best I can.

HSLD

[scotian]

Nice data sheet, very well organized with the pics and maps, it could be used as a template for future travel write ups. Now about Kingston, I've never been but have heard a bit about it from guys I work with, given its proximity to the USA border, do any drunk under-21 American skanks go up there to party and get wasted? I know that some border towns out west and in Quebec are pretty good for that. I've heard that there's some really nice places outside of the city which are cool to visit in the summer, particularly the Thousand Islands and Gananoque, the pictures I've seen look like your quintessential scenes of the great Canadian outdoors. The boys from work also tell me that there's some slutty Franco-Ontarioenne chicks running around down the road in Cornwall. I don't spend much time in Upper Canada, its fucking huge but there are definitely some nice spots down there and Kingston appears to be one of them.

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

(04-24-2015 06:47 PM)scotian Wrote:  

given its proximity to the USA border, do any drunk under-21 American skanks go up there to party and get wasted?

There are very few Americans that come to Kingston to drink, but I have seen a couple chicks here over the years. If there are Americans in Kingston, they tend to usually be American soldiers stationed at Fort Drum in upstate New York, which is about an hour away by car. As well, during the winter semester there's a weekend where RMC has a weekend exchange with West Point - a lot of West Pointers come to party up here and get away from the suckfest that is West Point.

HSLD

[rcraig33hb]

Good job on this data sheet HighSpeed_LowDrag!!!

+1 from me. There are many data sheets on places that are commonly traveled or over saturated with excess detail...includes me writing one on Davao...lol.

This is refreshing and well put together!

[Nascimento]

Very well-put datasheet!

[Mentavious]

Sounds like my scene.

[ManAbout]

(04-24-2015 06:47 PM)scotian Wrote:  

Nice data sheet, very well organized with the pics and maps, it could be used as a template for future travel write ups. Now about Kingston, I've never been but have heard a bit about it from guys I work with, given its proximity to the USA border, do any drunk under-21 American skanks go up there to party and get wasted? I know that some border towns out west and in Quebec are pretty good for that.

You don't even have to go to border towns. Montreal is full of under 21 American skanks from Boston and NYC. Quebec City to some extent as well.

[Rang off the Pipe]

Exactly. But if I'm in Quebec I probably wouldn't be going after standard American/Canadian girls I can find elsewhere. I'm a little surprised you mentioned Quebec City though, with its more significant language barrier and farther distance from any large American city. I do know its a significant tourist destination.


In any case, great datasheet. More information about a place not often mentioned never hurts.

[MrRoundtree]

He meant Quebec girls go to Montreal to party sometimes

[Saruman]

Amazing data sheet !

I will need to try this city out only 2h37 from Montreal by train !

[rudebwoy]

HLSD - nice report. Is it worth the drive from Tdot?

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

(04-25-2015 12:15 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

HLSD - nice report. Is it worth the drive from Tdot?

I'd say yes, but it'll be best during the early September period (Frosh Week.) The entire city basically goes nuts during that week - it's pretty wild. You won't get the full experience right now since all the students are starting to leave for their summer holidays. But considering what I saw in TO, anything is likely to be an improvement.

I've never really seen non-students try to run game on students here, but if you were so inclined I'd play up the "traveling businessman' angle huge. Go out looking well-dressed and set yourself apart from the drunk schlubs.

This place would be best for young professionals who can still pass themselves off as being student age. Guys like Nascimento, Saladin, ONE-A-DAY ... you guys would likely kill here with the weaponized level of game you've developed from being in Toronto. Plus I'm pretty sure you'll see a bump in quality from Toronto anyways.

So yeah - I would definitely recommend all Toronto RVF'ers to try it out.

HSLD

[beta_plus]

While HighSpeed_LowDrag has put together an excellent sheet for Kingston and does provide some warning of its difficulties, as a Queen's Alum who spent 5 years there in the 90s and goes back usually once a year, I have to strongly advise forum members to avoid Kingston unless their game is good enough for Toronto. Kingston women are extremely difficult to game and have hypergamy that seems to defy reality. When I was there, they were obsessed with height and looks (though not money). If you weren't 6'2" you could pretty much forget about a girlfriend and if you wanted one who looked decent you had to be quite handsome as well. I remember girls who I wouldn't look twice at in DC saying that their "friends" wouldn't even talk to a guy under 6'3". A forum member has told me privately that it's now cliquey and social status & wealth obsessed as well.

The simple fact is that in Kingston like Toronto the average man is MUCH more attractive than the average woman, regardless of racial/ethnic background. A slender 5+ is going to have her pick of the litter and you'd better be ready to compete. To put in a context Americans can understand, imagine if Ithaca, NY had not only Cornell but West Point as well, and average male height was at least a few inches higher.

Owen Cook (aka Tyler Durden) is a Queen's alum from Ottawa. I do not consider that a coincidence.

If you are considering attending university in Canada and are not military, you should look elsewhere to schools in Montreal like McGill and Concorida, and out west to schools in the Prairies.

It's a shame about the women because the nightlife is superb for such a small place. Kingston has many top class restaurants and fun (if sometimes cheesy) bars and clubs. In the summer, the weather is idyllic and there are many lovely places to have a drink outdoors.

Looking back, I sometimes wonder if the hottest girl in town when I was there was Karla Homolka.

[Rang off the Pipe]

I know what you're referring to when you mention Ithaca, but I'll clarify it for folks that might be reading. Cornell is known for having many good-looking and fit guys (personal experience based on my travels and talking to friends) but also a sub-par female student population and all the baggage of an Ivy league. With that in mind the partial comparison with it and Kingston is a bit frightening to think about.

[CH-Toronto]

Just want to chime in and say great data sheet as well!

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

Thinking on what's been mentioned above, I would actually advise anyone reading the datasheet to take beta_plus's comments under some advisement.

I've spent 5 semesters here at Kingston (2.5 years - last semester was my exchange in Hamburg.) In that time, after throwing myself hard into nightgame (usually going out on Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays at a minimum), I've gotten 10 notches from Kingston, none of those being higher than a 7. That works out to about one new notch every two months (at four months to the semester.) That's with the advantage I have of being in the military and attracting chicks who self-select for military guys - at least three of those notches I know were attracted to me in varying part on that basis.

On the other hand, I'd say I'm of average facial looks - at best. I've gotten looks of disgust from girls in Stages and AleHouse more often than I'd actually care to admit. A lot of times, it can be crushing on the ego. But there are plenty of times where I've gotten interest from girls way more attractive than I am handsome. I've been told multiple times from cadets here that I do way better than people would expect of me at first glance. And there are guys here who have better physiques and looks than myself who absolutely demolish this town at will.

Be cognizant of what's been mentioned above, but I fully believe Kingston is worth at least a try for many Toronto/Ontario hands on this forum.

HSLD

[Dr. Howard]

I've always thought of kingston as the 'penitentiary town" which would make me leery of local girls, like other prison towns in the US where people 'get out' and hang around in the town that they were released in.

Any of that in Kingston?

[scotian]

(04-25-2015 10:38 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

I've always thought of kingston as the 'penitentiary town" which would make me leery of local girls, like other prison towns in the US where people 'get out' and hang around in the town that they were released in.

Any of that in Kingston?

[beta_plus]

(04-25-2015 10:38 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

I've always thought of kingston as the 'penitentiary town" which would make me leery of local girls, like other prison towns in the US where people 'get out' and hang around in the town that they were released in.

Any of that in Kingston?

One of the weirder experiences I have had was when I partied with friends in Kingtson in '09 and a guy came up to our group who reaked ex-con saying "wow, you're a really good looking guy. Kind of like Paul Bernardo".

I hadn't lived in Canada for nearly 10 years at the point and it took a few seconds for me to remember who he was.

Needless to say, we politely excused ourselves and bounced.

Please do not read this as a post of me trying to claim how good looking I am.

[Saladin]

(04-25-2015 07:41 PM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  

On the other hand, I'd say I'm of average facial looks - at best. I'v gotten looks of disgust from girls in Stages and AleHouse more often than I'd actually care to admit. A lot of times, it can be crushing on the ego. But there are plenty of times where I've gotten interest from girls way more attractive than I am handsome. I've been told multiple times from cadets here that I do way better than people would expect of me at first glance. And there are guys here who have better physiques and looks than myself who absolutely demolish this town at will.

Be cognizant of what's been mentioned above, but I fully believe Kingston is worth at least a try for many Toronto/Ontario hands on this forum.

HSLD

Student towns can be tough cold approach wise(but reasonably easy with social circle game). From what I've noticed being muscular plays a much bigger role with younger girls. Hence the importance of hitting the gym and dressing in a manner that flatters your body.

I need to try out Kingston, as well as other smaller towns in Ontario.

[N°6]

I became man in CFB Kingston when I was there with the British Army.

The woman in question was in the RCAF and from Montréal so I apparently broke the gender ratio. The accent soaks knickers in North America, add a uniform then there is very little you need to do.

In the AleHouse (above), my unit challenged the USMC a drinking game but it declined so we started singing 'God Save the Queen' and the Canadian punters in the bar joined in. Later that night the local police had to fish the US Marines out of the St Lawrence River.

Good times.

[Nascimento]

The thing with college towns is exactly related to what Saladin mentioned above.

Social circle game is king.

I know exclusive spots in Hamilton that cater to a very heavy university crowd. It's literally insane how many attractive young girls you'll see inside one bar. You could approach in the high double digits if you wanted to, without having a girl you've previously approached seeing you do it.

But, it's hard. Girls, even though they might like your vibe, find you attractive, don't want to be judged by their friends for interacting with an outsider. Or even worse and more frequently, their friends will stop them from doing so. Even if you're seen as a cool guy. "Don't worry, he's cool" has been said about me by girls in my defence to her friends on several occasions, but it's usually not enough.

I've lost count how many times I've had a very keen girl physically dragged away from my by her 2 or more friends, when the girl was still grabbing onto my hand and trying to resist with an expression saying 'sorry, but my friends!!'

Girls' uni night out will almost always win.

Sometimes though, you will get the girl that tells her friends to piss off. When this happens, it's awesome. Other times her friends will leave you alone. Other times her friends will love you and you'll get double make outs, then you'll attempt a double pull, and if you're me you'll fail miserably

My success rate has actually gone down at these uni nights out. I used to have a gang of 3-4 guys I'd roll with that were very connected in the scene. Meeting girls was effortless.

Nowadays on solo nights out or with one or two buddies, my success rates are higher at the regular clubs on Saturday nights. Less girls, still attractive ones, worse ratios, but girls are more down to meeting outsiders, even if they are university age. Venue choice matters.

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

(04-27-2015 07:23 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

Or even worse and more frequently, their friends will stop them from doing so. Even if you're seen as a cool guy. "Don't worry, he's cool" has been said about me by girls in my defence to her friends on several occasions, but it's usually not enough.

I've lost count how many times I've had a very keen girl physically dragged away from my by her 2 or more friends, when the girl was still grabbing onto my hand and trying to resist with an expression saying 'sorry, but my friends!!'

Girls' uni night out will almost always win.

This. If there was one thing that I would say would make me less likely to recommend Kingston to anyone on the forum, it would be this. This behaviour, unfortunately, is endemic to the girls in this city.

It's not like you can call out the cockblockers for being anti-social like Roosh recommended on the blog once upon a time. If even one of her friends in her group do not like you, they will brusquely pull her away, without any hesitation, and without any chance on your part to call them out. The snatch-and-grab takes place in a matter of seconds. It's crab-in-the-bucket behaviour if I've ever seen it. And you can't the CB tell off without looking desperate for following her.

It's something that you just have to learn to deal with. It's frustrating, but all you can do is grit your teeth, esccalate/get the phone #s early, and keep going.

HSLD

[Saladin]

Ha Incidentally I remember this french girl I was talking to in a bar in Toronto. Her friend came by and was like "We're leaving now" and started to drag her away.

I really loudly just yelled out "YOOOO, RELAX. Give us a minute."

It was pretty fucking loud and started the friend and she just fucked off outside giving me time to get this girls number. I felt like a boss that time. Something I learned from Manwhore, the whole befriend the friend strategy sometimes is a bad move, and its better to be aloof or just call the friend the fuck out. That whole "be polite" thing doesn't work, you literally have to startle the fuck out of them. Especially with these younger girls who feel entitled to just cockblock you and their friends.

Kept texting her but nothing came off it. But if you're at a less loud bar that's a maneuver you can pull off fairly easily.

The worst is when the friends come out of nowhere and violently rip the girl away from you. If a guy friend of mine did that to me I'd fucking go nuts on him, but I guess girls let their friends treat them like shit.

[TheWhiteWolf]

I'm 6 foot two and a fairly good looking still I find myself amazed at the height and looks of the average male here. Girls here are spoiled by the attention they receive from tall good looking men. As a result you often see guys dating way below their level. The only redeeming factor about Kingston is the university scene