[Pinocchio]

(04-24-2015 09:34 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

How big a factor is Mayweather's age? 38 is getting old.

they're roughly the same age

[Pinocchio]

i really hope pac wins, my prediction is mayweather on points.

[Merenguero]

(04-24-2015 03:35 PM)Pinocchio Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 09:34 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

How big a factor is Mayweather's age? 38 is getting old.

they're roughly the same age

As far as I'm concerned, Mayweather's age isn't a factor. He is arguably better than he was at 28 or 18. Remember, the guy doesn't drink, smoke, or do drugs, and probably trains harder than any other fighter, maybe harder than any other fighter ever. All that combined with his great defense which hasn't subjected him to having to take many hard shots is the formula for lasting for several decades in this sport. I'm about the same age as he is and feel stronger than ever. Many eighteen year old guys would love to be in the shape I'm in. Age is grossly overrated.

I'm completely baffled by the whole ticket and viewing party deal. Tickets for everything were supposed to go on sale yesterday at 6:00 P.M. eastern time. I didn't even know that, but just happened to go to the ticketmaster website just a few minutes after everything supposedly went on sale. The system wouldn't let me buy tickets for any of the viewing parties and would only let me buy packages for tickets to the fight including some dinner or something. The worst possible seats were just under $8,000 each. This definitely wasn't a scam, since the tickets were being sold by ticketmaster. I'm now seeing tickets to the viewing parties on secondary markets, some of which may be a scam and some of which are not. I haven't seen anything sold for Bellagio (including Hyde), Monte Carlo, or Hustler Club. In the past, I have bought tickets for the Monte Carlo viewing party on the hotel website. As of now, the hotel website doesn't mention a viewing party. The Hustler Club party is usually pretty low key and will probably be available through the club's website.

[MidWest]

(04-24-2015 03:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 03:35 PM)Pinocchio Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 09:34 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

How big a factor is Mayweather's age? 38 is getting old.

they're roughly the same age

I'm about the same age as he is and feel stronger than ever. Many eighteen year old guys would love to be in the shape I'm in. Age is grossly overrated.

Its interesting you say that. I remember a few years ago I took a weightlifting class and the professor told us that men start losing their strength at 28. That supposedly our prime years for strength are between ages 22 and 28 so really only about 5 to 6 years before we start to decline. I'm freaking out because I'm 26 now, so apparently according to him I have two more years of my prime to be in shape.

I never quite understood that because many many athletes today really hit their "prime" much older in terms of athletic ability. Mayweather started to get better and better as he aged in my opinion and so did Pacquiao. Hell look at Juan Manuel Marquez, I think he was 39 or 40 when he knocked Pac-Man out.

[la_mode]

This fight is overhyped. Mayweather easily. Pac could pull off the upset via decision but he got rocked by Marquez last time, who isn't nearly on the same level as Mayweather.

Depending who you ask, Marquez beat him twice.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(04-24-2015 05:32 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

This fight is overhyped. Mayweather easily. Pac could pull off the upset via decision but he got rocked by Marquez last time, who isn't nearly on the same level as Mayweather.

Depending who you ask, Marquez beat him twice.

Is that really the way it works? I mean Joe Frazier convincingly beat Ali, then Foreman absolutely destroyed Frazier, and then Ali beat Foreman.

[Merenguero]

(04-24-2015 05:16 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 03:50 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 03:35 PM)Pinocchio Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 09:34 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

How big a factor is Mayweather's age? 38 is getting old.

they're roughly the same age

I'm about the same age as he is and feel stronger than ever. Many eighteen year old guys would love to be in the shape I'm in. Age is grossly overrated.

Its interesting you say that. I remember a few years ago I took a weightlifting class and the professor told us that men start losing their strength at 28. That supposedly our prime years for strength are between ages 22 and 28 so really only about 5 to 6 years before we start to decline. I'm freaking out because I'm 26 now, so apparently according to him I have two more years of my prime to be in shape.

I never quite understood that because many many athletes today really hit their "prime" much older in terms of athletic ability. Mayweather started to get better and better as he aged in my opinion and so did Pacquiao. Hell look at Juan Manuel Marquez, I think he was 39 or 40 when he knocked Pac-Man out.

It depends on the person, but for guys like Hopkins and Mayweather, both of whom I think live really healthy lives, age had never really been a factor. Now that I think about it, all those years of dancing have messed up my knees. I've been doing hard cardio every day for many years and from cardio, my knees are fine. If I start dancing too much, it messes up my knees to the point where I can no longer run. I very rarely dance nowadays, so it's not really a factor. I figure if I have to choose between the two, it's better to run and lift weights than to dance.

[Legendver2]

As far as motivation goes, I think Mayweather would be more motivated to win in an effort to not tarnish is still undefeated record.

[WanderingSoul]

(04-24-2015 06:02 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 05:32 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

This fight is overhyped. Mayweather easily. Pac could pull off the upset via decision but he got rocked by Marquez last time, who isn't nearly on the same level as Mayweather.

Depending who you ask, Marquez beat him twice.

Is that really the way it works? I mean Joe Frazier convincingly beat Ali, then Foreman absolutely destroyed Frazier, and then Ali beat Foreman.

No, but JMM is a counter puncher and that's what gave Manny problems. Mayweather is a better counter puncher than JMM and the best defensive fighter in the game, so to me the JMM fights are why I think Mayweather is going to win fairly easily.

[The Father]

(04-24-2015 06:39 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 06:02 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 05:32 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

This fight is overhyped. Mayweather easily. Pac could pull off the upset via decision but he got rocked by Marquez last time, who isn't nearly on the same level as Mayweather.

Depending who you ask, Marquez beat him twice.

Is that really the way it works? I mean Joe Frazier convincingly beat Ali, then Foreman absolutely destroyed Frazier, and then Ali beat Foreman.

No, but JMM is a counter puncher and that's what gave Manny problems. Mayweather is a better counter puncher than JMM and the best defensive fighter in the game, so to me the JMM fights are why I think Mayweather is going to win fairly easily.

JMM is an aggressive, hard hitting counterpuncher. Mayweather not that aggressive. Guys with fast hands who keep busy give Mayweather trouble -that's Manny. The only question is whether he can keep it up past 5 rounds. Floyd tends to figure guys out after 4-5 rounds.

[The Father]

(04-24-2015 09:48 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 06:39 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 06:02 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 05:32 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

This fight is overhyped. Mayweather easily. Pac could pull off the upset via decision but he got rocked by Marquez last time, who isn't nearly on the same level as Mayweather.

Depending who you ask, Marquez beat him twice.

Is that really the way it works? I mean Joe Frazier convincingly beat Ali, then Foreman absolutely destroyed Frazier, and then Ali beat Foreman.

No, but JMM is a counter puncher and that's what gave Manny problems. Mayweather is a better counter puncher than JMM and the best defensive fighter in the game, so to me the JMM fights are why I think Mayweather is going to win fairly easily.

JMM is an aggressive, hard hitting counterpuncher. Mayweather not that aggressive. Guys with fast hands who keep busy give Mayweather trouble -that's Manny. The only question is whether he can keep it up past 5 rounds. Floyd tends to figure guys out after 4-5 rounds.

Also, the other thing nobody is talking about, out of politeness I guess: JMM was so obviously juiced in that last fight. Like Manny appears to have been as he climbed from a shitweight to 147 pounds. The night JMM knocked out Manny, Erik Morales tweeted "The Mexican pharmacy beat the Phillipino pharmacy".

[Saweeep]

Does anyone know if the fight is being broadcast in Thailand and if so what channel?

[Kamikaze]

There are so many threads on this fight right now that I didn't know where to post this. But this trailer, combined with the first 4 minutes of the documentary below, are the reason I'm pissed Showtime is involved with this in any way. HBO is the fucking kingpin of boxing shows and documentaries. The production value is insane, as well as the level of detail.

I didn't think I could be more excited by the fight as I've been looking forward to this ever since Pac stopped Cotto. But HBO managed to do it. They are the fucking masters.

For the record, I've been flip-flopping on this for a while. But I'm making my pick, whatever.

Mayweather split or majority decision.

As the documentary points out, Mayweather is a boxing savant, a genius who was figuratively born in the ring. There's a reason Mayweather calls Pacquiao reckless... everything Mayweather does is calculated and anticipatory. Few fights have ever had such a glaring difference in styles at this elite, all-time great level. The closest example I can think of is Leonard-Durán (Here's hoping May-Pac shakes out the way of Leonard-Durán 1, and not 2...). They both have natural talent, but honestly Pacquiao edges him based purely on power. Mayweather edges him on ring IQ and, perhaps an underrated attribute, size. He looks huge next to Pac.

The other thing that kept pulling me towards Pacquiao is he seems to be more of a 'normal' person who only gets motivated by certain tasks. I think part of his decline in recent years has been age and all those wars he's been in, but also the fact that he's been sort of going through the motions of his career. I would say the decline is 25% attributed to a physical decline, 75% to motivation.

Now, Pac will be as ready as we will ever see him, at this stage. Would he have had the same motivation and had a higher ceiling in 2010 after Cotto? Sure. But this is the absolute best we're getting out of Pac. However, we're also going to see the absolute best from Mayweather, who in some ways has also been going through the motions. For example, I don't think Cotto had any business making that fight close... in my opinion Floyd literally let him.

So the questions of motivation are a wash. Historical antecedents are also a wash, because Mayweather will not trade with Pacquiao, period, the way Leonard did with Durán in their first fight. Mayweather is smarter than Leonard, if not as talented.

It comes down to each fighter's advantages, and I think Floyd's are more pronounced. He will take it. But it will NOT be easy, as some have suggested. I would not be surprised if Pac did take a decision, especially if he comes out guns blazing and is able to average at least 80+ punches/round, which will be hard.

If Pac can score 7 100+ punch rounds, he's very likely to win. I just don't think we'll see that, partly due to Pac not being the same, and also due to Mayweather diffusing it.

Can't wait till Saturday, shiiiiiiiit

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(04-24-2015 05:32 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

This fight is overhyped. Mayweather easily. Pac could pull off the upset via decision but he got rocked by Marquez last time, who isn't nearly on the same level as Mayweather.

Depending who you ask, Marquez beat him twice.

That's kind of bullshit. Marquez was juiced to the gills when he knocked out Manny. He was faster and stronger at 40 than ever before, hired a PED specialist as his new trainer, and he was covered in tell tale steroid acne.

[WanderingSoul]

You think JMM was on PEDs but not Manny?

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(04-26-2015 08:36 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

You think JMM was on PEDs but not Manny?

I think that JMM certainly was, and on heavy doses of multiple compounds.

Manny? Maybe, maybe not. It seems he has used during much of his career, but I suspect (based on photos of him not looking that great, and watching some clips of how he was in the fight) that he was either using a lot less or not at all during this time. Maybe he was worried about a positive drug test affecting his political career.

I read some comment after the Manny knockout that said that the Mexican pharmacy had beaten the Philippines pharmacy that night. lol

[Saweeep]

^^^ there isn't a top boxer (or sportsman in general) in the world not on gear.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive I'm afraid.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(04-26-2015 08:59 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

^^^ there isn't a top boxer (or sportsman in general) in the world not on gear.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive I'm afraid.

True.
For example, I want to know how Michael Phelps beats the drug testing. He is supposedly watched so closely that I suspect some sort of official corruption. Maybe he gets warned before tests, maybe the person collecting his samples tampers with them, I don't know.
Knowing the true story of what he takes and how he gets away with it would be a fascinating look at the highest levels of international sport and how the most closely monitored always seem to be one step ahead.

[Saweeep]

I have no evidence for this but I think the sports bodies are complicit.

It's in their interests to have record breaking, super physique owning media stars.

Follow the $$$

[Kamikaze]

What do legends say?

Tally:

ODLH: May
Mosley: May
Cotto: Doesn't pick, but safe to say May (he's trained by Freddie, doesn't want to say Pac)
Hatton: May
Marquez: May
Tyson: Pac
Foreman: Pac
Lewis: May
Hopkins: May

If you look around for more vids, Ray Leonard and Roy Jones also pick May.

The most interesting point was raised by ODLH, and that's that May doesn't handle jabs very well, which is kinda true as evidenced with ODLH and Cotto. That would leave him open to what was originally Pac's greatest, and only, weapon once upon a time... the straight left. Don't know how much to put in that, but I found it interesting.

Of course, Mosley brought up that Pac's also extremely susceptible to the overhand right, and that's May's money punch as well. Shiiiiiiiit

[MidWest]

A lot of you guys are throwing the PED accusations. Do we have any evidence that JMM was juiced? And does Boxing have some kind of regulation or policy against juicing? Can't think they would just let them take steroids just like that.

[The Father]

(04-26-2015 12:44 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

A lot of you guys are throwing the PED accusations. Do we have any evidence that JMM was juiced? And does Boxing have some kind of regulation or policy against juicing? Can't think they would just let them take steroids just like that.

No hard evidence, just circumstantial. A few years ago, he hired a guy named Angel Hernandez as his trainer. This sent shock waves through the sport since Hernandez, who was previously known as Angel Heredia, was at the center of the BALCO steroid scandal and had to turn government witness to avoid going to jail. He confessed to juicing up Usain Bolt, among others. Anyway, Marquez hires him as his "strength coach" and IMMEDIATELY goes from a flabby 140 pounds to a ROCK -SOLID, ripped, muscular 147 pounds at 39 years of age. I'm sure this was all just an amazing coincidence :/

As to your other question, I see you are new to the wonderful but frustrating sport of boxing, my favorite sport. Let me answer your question this way: Boxing regulates PED's the way Mexico City regulates cops shaking down gringo tourists for phony "speeding" incidents: It turns a blind eye. With the same effect: While this may seem financially "expedient" in the short run (so major fights don't get cancelled), in the grand scheme of things it actually reduces the amount of money in the sport b/c the sport can't return to the mainstream with all this taint hanging all over it. When you consider that the major sanctioning bodies are mostly based in Latin America, this isn't a surprise (WBC - Mexico, WBA - Panama, etc).

[The Father]

(04-26-2015 08:36 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

You think JMM was on PEDs but not Manny?

I don't think Manny has been on juice for some time now. I guess he realized the $$$$ he would lose from losing his image would outweigh the dollars he would lose from losing a fight or two (which he has). The fact that he knocked out EVERYONE from 2005-2009 but hasn't had a knockout in FIVE YEARS suggests he isn't juicing now.

But early in his career, I think he MAY have been juicing. Not sure. On the one hand, it's not typical to go from 106 to 147 and GAIN punching power. And as I said, he went on this ridiculous KO string but then just as suddenly lost punching power.

NOW, on the other hand, he was VERY young when he weighed 106...he got into the sport as a boy, like a lot of poverty stricken fighters did. So maybe it was his natural growth that did this for him. I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd say its 60-40 he was juicing earlier in his career. The fact that he wins nearly all of his fights lately without juice suggests he is a great fighter without juice, just not a devastating KO puncher like GGG. And that's good enough!

[The Father]

(04-25-2015 11:48 AM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

There are so many threads on this fight right now that I didn't know where to post this. But this trailer, combined with the first 4 minutes of the documentary below, are the reason I'm pissed Showtime is involved with this in any way. HBO is the fucking kingpin of boxing shows and documentaries.

TOTALLY agree!! HBO has been so professional, while the Showtime special was amateurish and totally shilled their fighter. It pretended this was "the Mayweather fight" and didn't mention Pac in anything more than a glancing way until about 10 minutes in! The HBO production was MUCH more balanced and professional.

Showtime has always been a third-rate boxing network; I've told the story here several time where Jim Gray interviewed a latino fighter, who started speaking in Spanish (as they almost all do). And Gray said "Speak English - our viewers speak English". HOW ABOUT YOU INVEST IN A TRANSLATOR, SHOWTIME?! And, not all of your viewers in the Southwest speak English. VERY amateurish and very 1962. It treated latin fans like the kitchen help when they are the backbone of the sport right now. YOU, the network, need to spend the very few $ it takes to get a translator and THINK AHEAD that a young fighter from Mexico might not speak English, DUMBASSES!

[Fortis]

Eh, I think every fighter is/was juicing. There is no way around it. The kind of money they have at stake is enough to feed their families for generations to come. When the stakes are that high guys will do crazy shit to ensure victory. Do I know that they're juicing 100%? No, but I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if every top fighter has been juicing at some point.

Either way, I'm throwing in my lot with Mayweather. Pacman is good, but I think Mayweather is the kind of fighter than can weather his blows and take him out in the mid to late rounds.