[robreke]

Someone once said in response to one of my questions about wouldn't a girl perceive that (some question about running daygame) as rude/unthoughtful:

Their response: "Pickup IS rude."


Perhaps so. You're interloping on a stranger's day out of the blue.

Do women perceive it as such or only the ones that find you unattractive? I think we know the answer to the latter part of the question. I think there are many times, however, where it could start off in the rude camp and lead to success.

I think there is value in knowing how a girl's mind generally is working during the opener and rest of the approach. It could aid in calibration.

What do you think the stages are the average girl's thought process goes through in a standard day game approach and when she realizes it was all just because you find her attractive how is she thinking?

What are the thoughts that make her start to get nervous and want to walk away?

The below assumes an indirect day game approach. The girls' thought processes would of course be different for direct approach and most likely night approach since women have a pre conditioned mindset on what guys in bars or clubs are after.

So, assuming indirect daygame, I think they are, in order from your opener all the way through to either her getting comfy with you or walking away:


*mild surprise ( depending on your opening skills) that all of a sudden someone is asking her a question or making a comment.

* a feeling of civil courtesy/ social etiquette in answering you or responding.

* slight cautiousness or wariness when you continue to talk about whatever it is.

Here is where the two paths can diverge. It could be one of nascent interest moving toward attraction or one where their wariness and lack of interest ultimately lead to them wanting to be somewhere other than talking to you. We'll explore the nascent interest path first:

* Nascent interest - as you ramble or ask intriguing questions or tease her about something ( probably the best) provided she's not off put by your vibe or look, the opportunity for her to be charmed by your words. Her thinking "what a fun interesting thing is happening to me today"....ie, a strange man talking to her.

I think if you can get here....to the nascent interest point, it's more or less 'don't fuck it up game' to get the number. From here the next phase would be:

* (possible feeling for some women ) :mild excitement on some level.

* some level of attraction or perhaps flattery that you're talking to her and finding an interest.

* her sense that there's a sense of rapport and the beginning of a connection between you and her. If this fire is nurtured through good game on your part then:

* She feels comfort - this is where the odds of the number becoming a date/non flake become markedly better.

Now down the Negative path of no interest:


Her cautiousness and wariness lead to:

* The beginning of discomfort or awkwardness. She's decided she's not attracted on some level. She's not comfortable with you continuing to talk. She may begin to avoid eye contact, angle her body away or just say something like "thanks" and walk off. Obviously a lost cause at this point.


Maybe many of you more experienced members have "interviewed" women you later bedded and have better insights than me. I've done this with a few girls I've been with and some of what they told me is on the list.

[Menace]

rob it is really kind of pointless to try and figure out a girls "thought process," to the extent such a thing even exists. It's more of an emotive process. Women will deny that they find thing X attractive and at the same time respond positively to it. It's just how they are.

Too much thinking is not conducive to the seductive process, in my experience.

[Pride male]

Depends who is doing the picking up.

[Cheetah]

I happened to stumble across the blog of a girl that I daygamed and got the number. The daygaming was a blogpost and it was mostly described with sweet music and puffy clouds. This was before I knew that there is no point in even glancing at the blog of a prospect.

If you daygame and the girl says that she is very appreciative of the seduction and find it bold but good, but declines with some boyfriend reason or whatever. Just ignoring it doesn't work. What can you potentially have done wrong or do 'expert' daygamers also face this every now and then?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Fundamental Laws of Pickup for Women

I. "If a good-looking wealthy male hits on me, he's an alpha."
II. "If a good-looking wealthy male hits on every girl but me, he's a misogynist."
III."If a male hits on a girl, he's a douchebag rapist"


Fundamental Laws of Pickup for Men

I. "The ability to pickup a woman is positively correlated to her weight."
II. "The ability and desire to pickup a woman based on weight is inversely correlated."
III."Big biceps are needed for the initial and bedroom pickup."

[rebelofbabyloin]

All good when a money clip shows up.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(03-10-2015 02:39 PM)Menace Wrote:  

rob it is really kind of pointless to try and figure out a girls "thought process," to the extent such a thing even exists. It's more of an emotive process. Women will deny that they find thing X attractive and at the same time respond positively to it. It's just how they are.

Too much thinking is not conducive to the seductive process, in my experience.

That's true. I did only hundreds of approaches and even I know that asking women about it is stupid.

Apart from some Daygame prone streets in London most women don't get approached very often.



And unless you are a fat disgusting slob, then most women like being approached if you have some minimum Game.

Sure - if she gets approached only by dudes way below her attraction threshold AND with bad Game, then she will not like it as much, but even then I would not discount it completely, because you see - even when an obese ugly guy tells her how pretty she is, then she will like it.



Don't listen to what women tell you OP!

I saw once a vid of Krauser he cut together with all the girls smiling and loving it who were approached by him on infields. As long as men don't cross boundaries (try to hold her, run after her, block her, be angry with her etc.) and learn from the good guys out there, then such an interaction will only improve a woman's life even if she rejects you. Tinder messages are not substitutes to real men saying nice things to her.

Also you have to realize about Daygame is that it is one of their fantasies to meet their prince charming on the street - "they just bumped" into each other. Yeah - he doing his 20th set today and 2450th in the last years, but it "just happened".

[Pride male]

Slightly off topic. Has anybody got a lay from cat calling?

[Cobra]

^I don't do it but a few attractive girls at work say they get cat called if anything.

In talking to one of them, I realized not many guys hit on her with "game" instead.

[1818Steve]

(03-10-2015 04:12 PM)Pontifex Maximus Wrote:  

Fundamental Laws of Pickup for Men

I. "The ability to pickup a woman is positively correlated to her weight."
II. "The ability and desire to pickup a woman based on weight is inversely correlated."
III."Big biceps are needed for the initial and bedroom pickup."

Yes, but with AW core strength is even more important.

[Cheetah]

(03-10-2015 02:39 PM)Menace Wrote:  

rob it is really kind of pointless to try and figure out a girls "thought process," to the extent such a thing even exists. It's more of an emotive process. Women will deny that they find thing X attractive and at the same time respond positively to it. It's just how they are.

Too much thinking is not conducive to the seductive process, in my experience.

Agreed. The premise of the OP requires pickup to be logically analyzed from the woman's point of view. Not gonna happen. They don't think that way.

Pickup from man's point of view
Step 1
Step 2
Step 3

Pickup from woman's point of view:
sweet music and puffy clouds (credit to Cheetah for this perfect description)

[WestIndianArchie]

1. Do women perceive it as such or only the ones that find you unattractive?

Trick question.

Done well, she turns from a cold stranger to attracted.

2. I think there is value in knowing how a girl's mind generally is working during the opener and rest of the approach. It could aid in calibration.

You are right, there is value in knowing how a particular girl's mind works, or how the average girl works - but it's unknowable.

What you think you glean from body language is a clue, but it's usually a guess. You understand body language best when you know a particular person over time. Sometimes the resistance you get initially is that a chick is startled that someone is approaching her - because she in fact has her own life and is thinking about everything else in the world but you.

If you get bad signals from body language before your rap is over, before you get a chance to go back and forth, before you get a chance to ask her the buying question - you will eject before you know if you could have been successful.

It really depends on the camp that you're in.

I'd say the majority of guys who run game don't think you can change a mind during an approach, all you can do is uncover interest.

If that's how you approach the game, then almost by default, you'll take any sign of resistance, hesitation, or anything but her total submission as a negative sign.

And that method is okay. There really are enough girls out there that you can run a short set, ask the buying question, and move on to the next chick if this one doesn't bite.

The other camp thinks that you can change a girl from neutral to positive by what you say and do.

The danger with "conversion" is really wasting time on girls because your rap is not hitting the right notes. Refining your rap might get better results eventually, but most of the time you're fumbling around for the right mix of delivery, content, and body language before you reach the level of confidence through competence.

Basically you can
- eject too soon
- stay too long

If you're in a low density environment, I think it behooves a player to at least try conversion. If it's a high density environment, then it makes sense to look for immediate cooperation.

3. What do you think the stages are the average girl's thought process goes through in a standard day game approach and when she realizes it was all just because you find her attractive how is she thinking?

She may not realize it. She may realize it.
It might be flattering.
It might be annoying.

But her initial emotional state when you start your approach is not something you can control. Her subsequent emotions after you start getting at her is something you can influence based on what you say.

4. What are the thoughts that make her start to get nervous and want to walk away?

This guy has a gun?
A knife?


5. Maybe many of you more experienced members have "interviewed" women you later bedded and have better insights than me. I've done this with a few girls I've been with and some of what they told me is on the list.

I am a fan of the debrief.

I ask chicks about me, when they knew they liked me.

The responses I get don't really comport with what I think happened in the set.

She says she liked me when I approached her.
I think that she was hesitant and skeptical based on her body language.

I know I turned a corner when I said something she didn't expect me to say.
She doesn't remember what I said at all.

Part of the problem with game, which we addressed before
- you don't know why you were unsuccessful
- you don't know why you were successful
- she doesn't really know why you she likes you, doesn't like you

I've told this story before.

Dude takes a chick out.
She's not really feeling him.
A couple months later, she sees him out on the town handling his B.I., and suddenly she's in love with him.

I see this couple's baby pics on my FB feed every day.

The game lessons are that
- You can't look for confirmation,
- You can't depend on preliminary feedback.
- You have to go into the situation confidently, even if there's really nothing you should objectively rely on.

It's paradoxical that you have to believe in a process when the outcomes only seem related in an abstract way.

You have to build your tree house on the thinnest of reeds.

"She's not walking away, therefore she's attracted"

WIA

[aphelion]

Women's biggest quest in a man is to find authenticity. An authentically strong, authentically well-connected, authentically well off man.

This is why women shit test, because they are testing authenticity just like kicking tires on the car you want to buy at the car lot. They're not hoping to break you, they're hoping you don't break.

The reason that women don't like PUA/TRP stuff is because the very thought of practicing to become good with women is anathema to them. Now she doesn't trust what's happening to her because it's not 'REALLY YOU'.

Just like one of the 48 Laws of Power is to 'make it look effortless', you have to make pickup seem effortless to women. You are selling the concept that you are inherently smooth and confident and everything, and not that you had to 'try hard' to get to where you were.

[General Stalin]

This is a difficult to answer question especially considering a lot of it depends on the girl's personality, individual tastes, and social savvy.

I will say that this question alone is what discourages a lot of over-thinkers from running game and approaching in the first place - hell it certainly did for me and does still. The idea that you're transparent and women are cognizant of the fact that you are indeed trying to "game" them and that your scheme may look obvious.

As has been stated by a few already; women don't see the interaction in logical steps I'm sure. It's all comes down to attraction really. If your approach goes well, either by her being attracted to you from the onset or by you building attraction with good rap and body language, then she will merely see the interaction as some awesome guy who just swept her off of her feet randomly on the street while she was going to class/work/coffee/brunch/whatever. If you're approach goes poorly then she will likely see it as some loser who tried to pick her up and she turned him down.

Think of it this way:

When you number close a girl then go hang out with your buddies, you might say "yeah I opened this girl outside the Starbuck's downtown and got her number" "Yeah I snagged this girl's number at the gas station on the way here" etc.

When a girl gets approached then gets to her brunch with her grrrls or whatever she might say something like "omg I met this cute guy on the way here." They think of it more romantically/emotionally.

[civpro]

They perceive it as they would a salesman. That is what you are and the product you're selling is yourself. If you are an inferior product or she's been subject to one too many sales calls then you're forgettable and the worst of all things: annoying, desperate, pathetic, etc. If however she's looking to buy and you happen to fit the bill, then all of a sudden she's all ears.

[Giovonny]

If you are attractive to her, physically and emotionally, she will like it.

If you are unattractive to her, physically and/or emotionally, she will not like it.

If your game is good, she is more likely to like it.

If your game is bad, she is less likely to like it.

If she is mentally or emotionally unstable, who the fuck knows?!?!? (just move on the the next one!)

----

I don't care how "women" perceive pick up..

I only care about my next approach.

[Fortis]

A lot of them think it is really weird stuff:

I was out last night and a girl was like, "was that a neg?"

I'm like, "What's a neg?"

and she looks so relieved that I haven't heard of that. Naturally, My player power level is higher than her girl game level, but a lot of women ARE game aware, so you have to be aware of that and disarm them at times.

[Pride male]

Some dont like the attention until the Wall and they become invisible.

[Dusty]

If you have her bent over the couch taking it doggie, you have some assurance she perceived the pickup well.

[XXL]

Girls either enjoy talking to you or not. In both cases it doesn't matter what they think then and there.

By saying "rude" they mean it's preplanned manipulation aka the guy is busy running game [unnatural] instead of being focused on the girl in front of him [natural].

When you ask girls about guys chatting them up they always say it FELT this or that.