[AnonymousBosch]

^ Your mate sounds toxic, and you're right to limit his influence in your life if you're working on self-improvement.

[AnonymousBosch]

(03-06-2015 05:55 AM)Aurini Wrote:  

You feel my pain? That sounds a lot worse than my situation.

Yeah, I've been in denial for the last week, but it's just sunk in this morning how entirely-fucked I am.

I now have six weeks to re-record a full-band album into a solo album, whilst holding down my day job, so I'd better lay low for a while. I'll either take some holiday time or just hand in my two week's notice. I was planning on abandoning my country to the wolves sometime this year anyway, so this just accelerates it.

I'm never investing any time or effort into Millennials again, unless they show hardcore dedication to both themselves and anything they work towards, and even then I'd give it serious thought.

Good luck with your project. Like me, I suggest you just knuckle down and do the work.

[Aurini]

(03-06-2015 10:46 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

If my former friend were successful through music, he'd be Alpha. But he's defined himself based on his successful marriage, which is dangerous not only because marital success is subjective but because you can carefully hide all evidence of your failure from others. I've lived in his house long enough to know how crazy his marriage is, but anyone else can judge his marriage by shallow appearances, which they both can easily maintain.

Is this not the very definition of narcissism? Projecting a false front at the world and hiding your secret shame, then raging at those who discover it? The only difference here is that you're seeing the overt mechanics of narcissism in his household, how it's meant to have a pretty facade, but it's a mess behind closed doors.

[GeroMeroHero]

(03-07-2015 03:52 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:46 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

If my former friend were successful through music, he'd be Alpha. But he's defined himself based on his successful marriage, which is dangerous not only because marital success is subjective but because you can carefully hide all evidence of your failure from others. I've lived in his house long enough to know how crazy his marriage is, but anyone else can judge his marriage by shallow appearances, which they both can easily maintain.

Is this not the very definition of narcissism? Projecting a false front at the world and hiding your secret shame, then raging at those who discover it? The only difference here is that you're seeing the overt mechanics of narcissism in his household, how it's meant to have a pretty facade, but it's a mess behind closed doors.

Doesn't everyone do that to an extent? Sans the rage part I suppose but people will still dislike to be found out.
But a prerequisite for narcissism is a lack of empathy too, so there is that difference.

[Aurini]

(03-07-2015 04:54 PM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  

Doesn't everyone do that to an extent? Sans the rage part I suppose but people will still dislike to be found out.
But a prerequisite for narcissism is a lack of empathy too, so there is that difference.

We all have flaws, but the difference between us and SJWs/Leftists is that we try and be honest about our flaws and correct them. Rather than fleeing from shame and constructing a false narrative, we punch through it to understand why we did something we're ashamed of. Ideally we have friends and confidants that we are able to reveal the truth to, because we understand that we need to get on the right track. We accept the fact that self-improvement will be painful.

Note: confession should be a private matter, not a public behaviour. There's an equal-and-opposite extreme to the societal narcissism, that's where you parade your shame around like a badge of honour. Tubleristas will post pictures of their own assholes while screaming "YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME!!!" to avoid actually dealing with their shame; and monks will walk around self-flagellating themselves for their sins instead of correcting them.

[MMX2010]

(03-07-2015 03:52 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:46 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

If my former friend were successful through music, he'd be Alpha. But he's defined himself based on his successful marriage, which is dangerous not only because marital success is subjective but because you can carefully hide all evidence of your failure from others. I've lived in his house long enough to know how crazy his marriage is, but anyone else can judge his marriage by shallow appearances, which they both can easily maintain.

Is this not the very definition of narcissism? Projecting a false front at the world and hiding your secret shame, then raging at those who discover it? The only difference here is that you're seeing the overt mechanics of narcissism in his household, how it's meant to have a pretty facade, but it's a mess behind closed doors.

Absolutely.

If you haven't read TheLastPsychiatrist's musings on narcissism, you should; they're amazing.

The article most relevant to your question is either this one: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/a...ology.html

Quote:

The narcissist feels unhappy because he thinks his life isn't as it should be, or things are going wrong; but all of those feelings find origin in frustration, a specific frustration: the inability to love the other person.

He's a man in a glass box, unable to connect. He thinks the problem is people don't like him, or not enough, so he exerts massive energy into the creation and maintenance of an identity: if they think of me as X...

But that attempt is always futile, not because you can't trick the other person-- you can, for an entire lifetime, it's quite easy. But even then, the man in the box is still unsatisfied, still frustrated, because no amount of identity maintenance will break that glass box.

If the other person is also in a glass box, then you have a serious problem. If everyone is in their own glass box, well, then you have America.

I guess Facebook is a kind of glass box?

Facebook is a neutral tool, it's what you do with it that matters. You think the "I'm better than everybody!" status updates are evidence of narcissism, and maybe they are, but the deeper pathology exists in those who derive their identities from that online presence while simultaneously retreating from the real world. Show me a man or woman who posts pictures of themselves in bathing suits and I shrug my shoulders. Show me a person who spends more than an hour a day on Facebook and it isn't their job and I'll show you a future divorce even if they're not married yet. Show me a middle aged person who spends >1 hr a day on facebook, and I'll show you someone who has been to a psychiatrist. It's not an insult, it is a statement of fact. Each person tries to find ways of affirming themselves; but when it is done through identity and not behavior, it always leads to misery.

Sure, you can convince 5000 people you're anything. Then what?

It is self-reinforcing. The type of person who withdraws into facebook is already stunted in their potential for happiness; and if you're spending all your energy on facebook then you're not spending it in ways that might actually work. The problem isn't facebook, the problem is you.

But that's how I met my last girlfriend...

Your last girlfriend. Narcissism has a fail-safe: since you know you tricked them to get them, you can't believe them when they say they love you. The fact that she loves you means she's not smart enough to know what love is. That's why you default to measurable quantities of love: how fast did she get into bed with the past guys?

Just because she thinks you're awesome, doesn't mean you can really feel her.

I know I can love, because I love my son and daughter, totally and unconditionally.

And so now I know your kids are young. No matter what you do to them: abuse them, yell at them, neglect them, abandon them, withdraw from them, they will love you unconditionally. But after puberty, when they start to love other people in different ways than you, or more than you (do you remember when you were 17?), even the best parent's status drops. How will your ego defend against that? Sports car and drinking? Cybersex? "I've started smoking pot again, it really helps me unwind."

What can psychiatry do about this?

Do about what? According to it there's nothing wrong with you, don't you see? You're not grandiose. Maybe you get diagnosed with "depression" or a touchy-feely therapist tells you you have "self-esteem issues" but that's like being told you have a hairy back, you make some cosmetic adjustments or you just don't go to the pool, life goes on. Psychiatry has nothing to say about why you get so enraged when you hear about welfare cheats, or how your wife's giggle at that one joke on TV hit you the wrong way, how everyone seems like shallow, phony jerks and no one is worth getting to know-- how adamant you are that the government do X or Y, neither of which are feasible or even matter but to you it's the most obvious thing in the world to do and the fact that they're not doing it must mean they are either idiots or corrupt-- and while you're yelling at the TV or the monitor or in your own head your wife is mauling a vibrator or you don't have a wife at all.

But I never yell.

Your rage may not score on the decibels but it is triple digits on the wattage. Psychiatry can't measure that. And while this rage makes you miserable there's also a societal effect: hating black people, hating white people, blaming Goldman Sachs, blaming your parents, declaring war.

And deserving things: shouldn't you be in a nice car? Nautica/Zegna/Underarmor/Polo shirts? Restaurants? The fact that you can't get them is someone else's fault; but if you get them, why aren't you happier? Meanwhile there are bills to pay.

And you can't make the connection between these things at all. Even as I say it, you resist: it's not that simple, you don't know her, you don't know them......................................... it can't be all me.

It is you, it is all you, it is always you. Isn't it odd how narcissism turns everything inward, except blame?

It's not odd, it is by psychic design, and psychiatry has failed you all in this. If individual narcissism is self-defensive, one might presume that societal narcissism will find it's own way to hide in plain sight. Narcissism became synonymous with grandiosity because that facilitated its measurement. But in so doing, the most significant social pathology in two generations was rendered undetectable.

------------------

This one:
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/02/t...demic.html

Quote:

How can a man who thinks "my wife is way smarter than me!"

or the guy who thinks, "I'm no ladies' man, but I would never use a woman, even if I could!"

or the woman who thinks, "I know I'm not a model, but I'm an attractive, intelligent, independent woman"

-- how can they all be narcissists?

I. I. I. Me. I. Me. I. I. I. I. Me. Me. Me. Enough, we get it, we all know who you are.

It's why happiness always seems out of reach, why love seems elusive or complicated. And sometimes why other people get hurt.

III.

Grandiosity is only one possible manifestation of a psychic process that went awry. The essence, the defining characteristic of narcissism is the isolated worldview, the one in which everyone else is not fully real, only part a person, and only the part the impacts you.

Narcissism is self-protective. It simultaneously allows for the reduction of the other to prop status, while reassuring you that this perspective is not wrong or dangerous because it's not about superiority.

You went to Haiti to help the refugees; great. You may have done it because you want to help; or you may have done it because it identifies you to yourself and others as a kind person, selfless, a helper. Which was it? The former comes from an external ethical structure that informs behavior. The latter is an internal identity that demands validation.

NB: the Haitians don't care either way, just show up.

Narcissism is morally neutral. Only the results can be judged. But it usually predicts: if the boat starts sinking, identity first.

--------------

Or this one: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/10/t...issus.html

-------------

Or this amazing one: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/06/a..._look.html

-------------

The relevant parts of both articles, (relevant with regard to Jordan Owen and my former best friend), both point out the heavily identity-focused aspects of both men.

Jordan Owen screwed you, because he doesn't want to be seen as either a Roosh-supporter, Roosh-enabler, or Rape-supporter. And my former best friend doesn't want to talk to me, because I can reduce him to impotent rage by making him look frightfully stupid and self-absorbed in fewer than three questions/sentences.

Questions like, "Why didn't you just marry your ideal woman, instead of marrying the complete opposite of your ideal woman in order to craft her into your ideal woman?" are extraordinarily triggering for him.

So are sentences like, "It's rather ironic that your claim to love her as a person rests completely upon your deep commitment to change her into a completely opposite woman under your direction. Most women would define that as hatred, not love."

So, especially, are sentences like, "Here's this 25-year old woman I'm getting to know. She's interested in me romantically, and she's extremely smart, highly positive, hard-working, ultra low-notch count, and fourteen years younger than me, a.k.a. right around your age." (My loudest, most explosive implication would be, "She's the exact woman you've been claiming to want your entire life, but your entire personality structure is so repulsive to her that she'd want nothing to do with you. She prefers me over you, despite (or because of?) my constant use of Asshole Game and despite (or because of!?!?) the existence of my Mistress, the 25-year old woman I've been sleeping with for four years!")

Jordan and my former best friend can't handle the competition, but they nonetheless choose to compete. And we can beg and plead that they not make enormous asshats out of themselves, but they'll do it anyway because they've got their heads in the clouds and their noses in the air, but they don't have their feet on the ground.

And I understand our initial desire to not crush them like bugs, but we need to out-compete them. Reality will crush them just as surely as it'll float us to the top. And when we get there: brag.

[Aurini]

(03-07-2015 06:03 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

The Last Psychiatrist is awesome.

I love his stuff; thanks for the particular links, I'll reread him every so often as a form of mental hygiene, to make sure I'm not going down any of those paths.

I've been thinking about bullying recently, in light of all the SJWs on GamerGhazi taking Jordan's side, as well as a few Neomasculine/Red Pill men who think I was unnecessarily harsh with him (to those men I say: we were raised by TV, school, and the culture at large to be sensitive, whiny narcissists; we were raised to be pussies. I've spent my entire adulthood training myself to be less of a pussy, so I understand where you're coming from, but blunt truth is not cruelty).

Modern bullying relies upon the exploitation of one's own weakness. The stereotypical jock giving the nerd swirlies is almost entirely a thing of the past, the closest we get nowadays is boys who were raised slightly less pussy than everybody else offending the nerd's self-image.

The real bullying is coming from those in weak positions preying upon the strong (oh, the irony of an Ayn Rand fan doing this...). When we in the manosphere write about domestic violence law, or false rape allegations, divorce proceedings, censorship, et cetera, this is what's at play. In a court of law, the only facts presented are the immediately relevant ones; but victimhood bullying is a pattern of behaviour that months or years of experience to adequately demonstrate. Only a crazy woman would attack a boyfriend who weighed twice her size, after all - what proof do you have that she's crazy?

None; as The Last Psychiatrist says, modern Narcissism is stealth Narcissism.

This whole GamerGate thing is about a bunch of steal narcissists playing to victimhood. All you have to do to push that narrative is find a bunch of guys acting like assholes in a video game, and there you go. Demonstrating that these feminists/SJWs/etc were provoking attacks upon themselves, behaving passive aggressively, and being utterly unreasonable is HARD.

And at the end of the day, there's an impossible divide that cannot be reconciled through facts or reason. The SJWs genuinely believe that they're the victims, while the rest of us seem them as the bullies. It's as impossible to resolve as a debate with a post-modernist who says that the statement "2+2=4" is a cultural construct being hegemonically imposed upon the world, not a derivation of Absolute Truth. Their world-view can be utterly consistent and coherent (thought it's founded upon denial of truth), but when you start looking into Godel's incompleteness theorem you realize that OUR Truth is just as faith-based as their own.

Mind you - our truth builds bridges, raises happy children, and leads to mental peace, while theirs destroys societies and leads to misery and suicide, but again, that's just subjective evidence. You can't prove a man wrong if that man rejects reason.

As a side note: is there anybody on here who could give me a tiny bit of legal council, say, hypothetically, regarding a Cease and Desist letter?

[BortimusPrime]

(03-07-2015 08:07 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

As a side note: is there anybody on here who could give me a tiny bit of legal council, say, hypothetically, regarding a Cease and Desist letter?

It's only scary if you get a lawyer to write and sign it. Especially if he's got a name that's both intimidating and Jewish, like Pierce Hyman.


I read the skype transcript and I can't see how people are arguing that you were harsh with Jordan. He was doing something that was screwing your business project, and then stonewalling with minimal answers when you tried to talk to him about it like a surly teenager.

[Aurini]

(03-07-2015 08:27 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

(03-07-2015 08:07 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

As a side note: is there anybody on here who could give me a tiny bit of legal council, say, hypothetically, regarding a Cease and Desist letter?

It's only scary if you get a lawyer to write and sign it. Especially if he's got a name that's both intimidating and Jewish, like Pierce Hyman.


I read the skype transcript and I can't see how people are arguing that you were harsh with Jordan. He was doing something that was screwing your business project, and then stonewalling with minimal answers when you tried to talk to him about it like a surly teenager.

You say that, but you're not a pussy.

From what I understand, a C&D is merely one lawyer's opinion on the situation - a statement of what they'd argue in court, based upon case law. They could be wrong about the law or even wrong about the facts; essentially the power of a C&D comes from their reputation - and if it wasn't written by a lawyer, it's just empty paper.

[BortimusPrime]

Even if you get a lawyer to draft the letter the point of the cease and desist is to intimidate the other party, so if he thinks you won't actually hire the lawyer to file a suit then it's unlikely to work anyways.

Plus if Jordan's the target I suspect there's an ego element there that will just exacerbate things. I had a friend go bonkers on me (in retrospect I think he had a manic episode) and what really fundamentally ended the friendship was that once his behavior had crossed a line where I couldn't let it slide anymore or else I'd become a pussy, his own ego simply wouldn't let him back down from what was a reasonable demand ("get out of my apartment now"). This was simply because I was demanding it and he really couldn't accept taking an order from me under any circumstance, even one completely within my right to give.

[Benoit]

Aurini, at first I thought you were using the wrong communication style, but I just finished listening to Matt Forney's podcast comparing him to Elliot Rodger, and now I understand why you were so insistent on getting an answer to each of your questions.

Given how often Jordan Owen drifts away from the point into unrelated digressions, I can see why you had to take such a 'demanding' tone and push him into positions where he had to respond directly.

That this has damaged the movie project at such a late stage is unfortunate, but having been in a similar situation - constantly having to hold my tongue around someone so irrationally volatile - it's the right decision to get out of the toxic situation so you can think straight.

[spokepoker]

Can you settle things down enough to get the remaining footage?
What animations do you need? What music do you need? What needs to be done to finish the movie?