[roberto]

I train four or five times a week, loosely based on 5x5. What I'm after is advice on discrepancies in my post set state after squats and bench press. I'm 76KG.

For squats, I'm currently at 122% bodyweight for back squat 3x5 and I follow that immediately with front squat 3x5 at currently 97% bodyweight. These wipe me out, but I feel awesome. I truly appreciate what compound exercises are about after squats.

Bench press is a different kettle of fish. Essentially it doesn't seem to be 'compound' for me. My numbers are weak, stalling at 90% bodyweight for 5x5. I can push and push, but if I'm not going to make it, that's it. And I get straight up. I don't feel exhausted. I don't get anything like the same feeling I do when squatting. I'm not pushing my body as hard as I want to, but I don't know why. I see stars after front squats, bench no matter how much I fail just seems like a walk in the park.

I want to bench hard, I know how important it is for upper body development.

I am:
-pushing with my legs as well
-using a fairly wide grip
-trying to focus on squeezing my pecs
-trying to 'bend the bar in half' whilst bringing it down in a controlled manner.

If anyone has anything to add or can see where I'm going wrong I'd be most grateful.

Thanks guys.

[Saweeep]

I'm not sure you are going wrong; BP will never exhaust the whole body in the same way heavy squats do, especially with a set of 5.

What exactly are you trying to achieve?

[H1N1]

Ok, first paragraph doesn't directly answer your question, but:

It looks like your bench and front squat are roughly the same, which is about right - ie, you're actually probably about as strong as you should be for your current level of development, and have progressed evenly. This suggests you've followed the program well, trained hard, eaten enough, and recovered sensibly.

To try to answer your question:

As CrashBangWallop said, bench is never going to feel the same as the squat. The squat uses almost every muscle in your entire body, whilst moving through a long range of motion. It uses all of your biggest muscles, as well as man smaller ones for stabilisation. By contrast, with the bench you are lying down, using smaller muscles, moving through a shorter range of motion, and consequently stressing the body less.

If you want to feel it more in your chest/feel more pumped afterwards, and it fits your goals, you could try doing some pre-exhaust work on the chest, with some flies, or the rear delts with some raises.

[The Reactionary Tree]

As previous posters have mentioned, bench press will never be as intense as squats (or deadlifts for that matter) because those exercises work nearly every muscle group in the body. If just doing your 5x5 is not cutting it, add in some chest flies, dumbbell presses, and/or dips into your regimen and your chest will be feeling it the next day.

[StrikeBack]

You train to get objective results, not to achieve exhaustion.

[Hades]

Are you military pressing, BTN pressing, or doing any bench press assistance work?

[Windom Earle]

(01-29-2015 02:12 AM)roberto Wrote:  

Bench press is a different kettle of fish. Essentially it doesn't seem to be 'compound' for me. My numbers are weak, stalling at 90% bodyweight for 5x5. I can push and push, but if I'm not going to make it, that's it. And I get straight up. I don't feel exhausted. I don't get anything like the same feeling I do when squatting. I'm not pushing my body as hard as I want to, but I don't know why. I see stars after front squats, bench no matter how much I fail just seems like a walk in the park.

(01-29-2015 06:30 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

You train to get objective results, not to achieve exhaustion.

^ This is sound advice right here, and not to be confused with failure.

As others have said, just because you're not huffing and puffing after reaching failure on your bench press, doesn't mean you aren't effectively stimulating the muscle.

Might be an idea to track your progress carefully over the next few months, including the use of a tape measure.

That's the true indicator (size/mass), not how exhausted you feel.

[kosko]

Bench Press is overrated.

If you want more of a challenge and want more tension on the muscle do the incline bench. Also do standing overhead press as well. I rarley do a flat bar bench, maybe twice a month and magically it still goes up just from doing incline and OHP.

I could never cheat like that with squats, OHP, or a deadlift. Meaning that not doing any of them and just support movements and still see those improve. Will get hate from this but it proves the Bench isn't a real compound movement that builds excessive layers of strength all around the body. It is a fused movement which only increases your bench but it is the biggest ego stroker in the gym.

I only get challenge from the suicide press. That gets a lot of tension on the muscle plus the fact that I don't want to kill myself either gets me extra locked in to the push.

[RexImperator]

If you tighten everything up you can actually get a lot of leg drive on the bench press.

It's my hardest "big three" lift as well, and I find it is very likely to increase when calories are increased and stall when they are dropped.

Adding volume with back-off sets of 8 can be helpful, as is also doing the inclined bench press. There's definitely lots of carryover from inclined to flat BP.

Right now I do flat on one day, military on another, and inclined on another day. Gives some variety.

[roberto]

Thanks for all the replies. Things are ringing true/good advice in every post.

I am indeed doing OHP as well. Pretty happy with that one, I enjoy it and am currently at 68% bodyweight. If you guys are saying that incline is just as good that suits me. Far prefer incline to flat, but I thought it might cross over with shoulders too much and affect OHP recovery? Is the decline/flat/incline for different parts of your chest just body builder bro-talk?

I find dumbell flies good for chest- I feel 'worked' the next morning. And yes Rex, I am cutting at the moment as it happens. It's most definitely stalled it.

[General Mayhem]

I avoided doing a lot of flat bench during the first 6-7 years of my lifting career. I followed a lot the typical hardcore meathead dogma, "Squat and Deadlift heavy" "Bench is for pussies" "Biceps are worthless" etc.

One day I woke up and stopped giving a fuck. Bench is a great exercise. Maybe it isn't the most functional strength exercise out there, but who gives a fuck. What is anyone really lifting outside of the gym anyway?

Flat bench is the best exercise for your mental well-being. Really. Nothing feels better than having the best bench in your gym. Learn to enjoy it.

I used to deadlift ridiculous numbers and laugh at the dudes on the bench press. It took me a long time to realize that I was just envious. I sucked at the bench so I put all my effort into my lower body. Deep down I was just compensating for a weak bench.

I had to start from the bottom. Learning bench was a lot different from squats or deadlifts.

To get the most out of bench you have to really appreciate good form. Bench is probably the most butchered exercise out there because it seems so simple. Once you learn to set up and flex all the proper muscles it gets a lot more complex, and a lot more fun.

Learning correct form boosted my bench numbers ridiculously.

I've puked, blacked out, nearly shit my pants squatting and deadlifting. You aren't going to get that with bench, it's just not as taxing.

But, if you really take the time to set up and get everything tense, then put an insane amount of mental focus into your form on your bench press you will come up with your muscles shaking and your heart racing. I can even see stars if I am really dialed in.

I don't remember any particular resources I read on how to do it. Your lats are a huge part of it. Learning to lift-off properly can take a long time to really get down. Find some articles and experiment a lot. It worked for me.

The best tip I have for you is to get everything tight before you lift off, lower back, lats, traps, upper arms, forearms, wrists, hands.

Another big one, BREATHE! Big inhale on the negative, blow it out on the positive.

The Incline/Decline debate is interesting. Decline can be customized a lot depending on the width of your grip and what point you are lowering the weight to on your body.

I don't fuck with incline much.

[rhodey]

(01-29-2015 02:12 AM)roberto Wrote:  

I train four or five times a week, loosely based on 5x5. What I'm after is advice on discrepancies in my post set state after squats and bench press. I'm 76KG.

For squats, I'm currently at 122% bodyweight for back squat 3x5 and I follow that immediately with front squat 3x5 at currently 97% bodyweight. These wipe me out, but I feel awesome. I truly appreciate what compound exercises are about after squats.

Bench press is a different kettle of fish. Essentially it doesn't seem to be 'compound' for me. My numbers are weak, stalling at 90% bodyweight for 5x5. I can push and push, but if I'm not going to make it, that's it. And I get straight up. I don't feel exhausted. I don't get anything like the same feeling I do when squatting. I'm not pushing my body as hard as I want to, but I don't know why. I see stars after front squats, bench no matter how much I fail just seems like a walk in the park.

I want to bench hard, I know how important it is for upper body development.

I am:
-pushing with my legs as well
-using a fairly wide grip
-trying to focus on squeezing my pecs
-trying to 'bend the bar in half' whilst bringing it down in a controlled manner.

If anyone has anything to add or can see where I'm going wrong I'd be most grateful.

Thanks guys.

Another thing to consider are your leverages. A lot of people(self included) are not built to be great benchers. Perhaps your arms are relatively long and/or your rib cage is not particularly deep? If so you might expect to progress slower in the bench. It took me 10 years of solid lifting to finally Press 315lb at a body weight of 220. I know will will never be a 400 lb presser.

Still I'm an above average deadlifter partially due those having long arms....

I've since dropped the barbelll Bench because it f'ck with my joints and because I've been focusing more on bodybuilding than powerlifting for the last 5 years.

If you simply want pec size- you dont have to bench - at all IMO. Dips and Dumbbell press will do it for many lifters. If you are an aspiring powerlifter and MUST bench I suggest you check out Paul Carter's website - Lift Run Bang. Do A search on Bench press tips - loads of good info.

[The Reactionary Tree]

OHP will become a very humbling exercise as you build it up. Eventually you will reach a sticking point where it will seem impossible to add more weight to the bar. It is quite possibly one of the hardest lifts to progress in. There is correlation between your OHP and bench press.

As for incline and decline press, I generally hear that declined bench press is pretty much useless. In Rippetoe's Starting Strength, he pretty much reaches the same conclusions. Incline will incorporate more upper pecs and the shoulders. Incline will be helpful for moving along both your bench and OHP (though honestly your bench will help your OHP as well).

I wouldn't skip the bench press but I would add additional exercises if you are seeking to build up the size/appearance of your chest muscles. Now if you are trying to just increase the amount you can bench, then I would add in a lot of tricep work since that plays a pretty heavy role in your bench press as well.

[Bushido]

(01-30-2015 07:03 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

Now if you are trying to just increase the amount you can bench, then I would add in a lot of tricep work since that plays a pretty heavy role in your bench press as well.

This x10. My bench stalled for ages until I started doing a Triceps day of various heavy skullcrusher exercises with maybe some close grip bench and pulldowns thrown in. But the skullcrushers were what changed things for me. My bench shot up by 10lbs within a couple of weeks after making this change and continues to improve.

Don't forget to do your dips after bench on Chest day either.

[rudebwoy]

Incline bench is the best exercise for chest.

[JohnVereen]

I did this exercise for my chest. Very good.

[roberto]

Gents, thanks so much for the tips. I see what you mean re triceps, my buddy is benching more than me at less bodyweight. He uses a narrower grip and it's clear from watching him that he's using his arms more than his chest.

If I'm honest I'm really looking just to build my chest more. I'll switch to incline bench and be sure to hit em with dumbell flies or dips as well.

[heavy]

I've been hitting lifting for a while now, but I just started my first workout plan this week.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beginner...ase-4.html

Incline flys
Incline bench
Cable crossover (love this)

As others posted, you'll never get full body exhaustion from upper body, but...if you do want to feel exhausted, every so often throw in a burnout workout.

I did this last week on incline dumbbell bench, doing 8 reps, grabbing lighter weights, 8 more, lighter weights, etc until I couldn't get 10 pounders up. That'll get you that feeling.

[StrikeBack]

If youŕe desperate to get exhausted, you can always try GVT 10x10 for bench. Probably wont be able to hold your fork for dinner that night nor wipe your arse the next morning, but youĺl feel the burn for sure!

[The Reactionary Tree]

(01-31-2015 12:04 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

If youŕe desperate to get exhausted, you can always try GVT 10x10 for bench. Probably wont be able to hold your fork for dinner that night nor wipe your arse the next morning, but youĺl feel the burn for sure!

German Volume Training (GVT)

[alexdagr81]

given your percentages, your bench is actually fine.

[redbeard]

I'm on the anti-flat bench team.

It's the only exercise that has consistently irritated my otherwise healthy shoulder. I could take the time to learn good form...but fuck it. There's other ways to hit chest. Dips will work wonders.

Say what you want about B&D but I've been doing this routine and have loved it.

http://boldanddetermined.com/2011/02/02/...big-chest/

Something about these three movements provides variety and a great pump. I like going real heavy on incline DB press, really pushing, then calming down and doing Gironda press slowly with lots of SQUEEZE in the chest.

[turkishcandy]

What is the difference between incline bench press and incline dumbbell bench press in terms of effectiveness? Which one is better for the chest?

(01-29-2015 11:15 AM)kosko Wrote:  

If you want more of a challenge and want more tension on the muscle do the incline bench.

[turkishcandy]

(02-01-2015 10:04 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

What is the difference between incline bench press and incline dumbbell bench press in terms of effectiveness? Which one is better for the chest? I'm also struggling with the bench press, so I need to do the most effective exercise to train my chest.

(01-29-2015 11:15 AM)kosko Wrote:  

If you want more of a challenge and want more tension on the muscle do the incline bench.

[alexdagr81]

Dumbbells give the chest more of a stretch and you can control tempo better. If you do barbell inclines, then closer grip will use more upper chest than shoulders.