[AneroidOcean]

(12-11-2014 04:16 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Still - Sean looks like having the highest level of long-term Game - he met her years ago in her prime, so well-done. Though to be fair, we don't know if he is to inherit 50+ mio. $ in a few years.

Even if he's not from a wealthy family, perhaps he's specifically a capital equipment salesman as their average income is $167k/year. Not too shabby and since all their travel is covered (as well as lodging/food) you could definitely save up a significant portion of that income and invest and become independently wealthy. She's only worth $4 million seems like.

"Capital equipment sales jobs typically require a fair amount of travel, but the sweet spot seems to be for those who spend 50% of their time travelling overnight. This group earns the highest average salary at $167,336.

Source:
http://www.medreps.com/medical-sales-car...ry-report/

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(12-11-2014 05:03 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

...
- When I'm pulling it's generally "In 5mins, lets roll out" there is no BS power games we go, I head straight to the bedroom taking off my cloth as she goes to the bathroom.

That type of stuff comes from experience/growth exploring different concepts. Most people hear socializing/networking and think of this asexual "safe" way of being whereas for me...
...

That's one hell of an escalation tactic - gotta try that one. I too managed to pull in a similar way to my place, but often did not escalate in such a straightforward way.

Good stuff.

[General Mayhem]

(12-12-2014 04:01 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 05:03 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

...
- When I'm pulling it's generally "In 5mins, lets roll out" there is no BS power games we go, I head straight to the bedroom taking off my cloth as she goes to the bathroom.

That type of stuff comes from experience/growth exploring different concepts. Most people hear socializing/networking and think of this asexual "safe" way of being whereas for me...
...

That's one hell of an escalation tactic - gotta try that one. I too managed to pull in a similar way to my place, but often did not escalate in such a straightforward way.

Good stuff.

Do you think that's more effective because if your vibe is relaxed?

He said this:

Quote:

It's a highly interpretative "gray area" allowing you to EASILY meet, flirt and/or get very sexual without coming off as formal, traditional, uptight, or serious

I think having that grey area leads to a lot more flexibility. It's a huge advantage to have the girl guessing what your intentions are, versus having her know from the start that you are thirsty.

I know conventional game says you should be straight forward, but I think that's outdated. There are so many thirsty guys out there and women have caught on.

[Excelsior]

I'm going to go ahead and weigh in on this thread. Much of what needs to be said has been said by Distant Light, but I hope I can contribute meaningfully to the discussion as well.

The biggest issue with these women is access. Yes, "game" (good vibe, sociability, ability to carry a conversation with beautiful women without tripping over yourself, etc, etc) is important, but that is important in the pursuit of any woman. The challenge that distinguishes high end models from other attractive women is access, or the lack thereof.

These women, as Jariel noted, are not merely models in name only. They are distinguished by their ability to regularly obtain paid work. They earn a lot, but they work a lot as well. Fashion is not as glamourous as it seems - the industry crushes a lot of dreams, undercompensates a lot of people, and those few who do make it truly earn their longevity. These models are working out constantly, flying all across the world regularly, doing shoots at all manner of inconvenient times in the morning and events throughout the days, and so on, so forth. Their schedules can be crazy, irregular, and entirely less predictable than they probably would like.

This is what creates the access problem. These girls make time for close personal friends outside of the fashion world, as that time is valuable and limited. The rest of their time is spent with those within the fashion or celebrity world. When you talk about models at the VS level or close to it, you're starting to talk about girls who don't party or socialize in quite the way we're used to seeing. Because of their commitments, they are less often found in the open venues (your standard bars, clubs, run of the mill house parties, etc) regular guys can access and more often found in more exclusive gatherings or events frequented by a disproportionately high number of fashion industry folks and celebrities. Hence the access issue.

When it comes to dealing with this access problem, it obviously helps to have fame or wealth. These things are more likely to get you access, which is why a disproportionate number of the men who do date these women tend to have it. These girls tend to meet men via social circles, either through introduction or chance encounters in the same social settings. Celebrities and wealthy men obviously have an easier time getting into the exclusive events in which these models spend a disproportionate amount of their time, and are thus more easily able to break into their social circles - they meet these girls at events, or are introduced at them, maybe go to the exclusive private get togethers and parties these girls attend later (the ones that are invite only and spread by word of mouth within these social circles; these are events that average joe will likely never know about).

Obtaining regular access to women who are fashion models but not at the VS level or close to it is hard, but doable - Distant Light can show you that. Getting to that elite tier of legitimate, in demand, professional models at or close to VS level and staying there is another story. Your odds are slim, because you'll need access, and that is hard to get without having special circumstances (fame, wealth, etc). These women are essentially celebrities, and average folks only rarely gain access to celebrities in a social setting.

Your best bet aside from getting rich or getting famous is via social circles. If you can work up to the point at which you are on very friendly terms with powerful "connecters", you stand a chance of bumping into these women somewhat regularly, and from there possibly integrating into one of their social circles. From there, maybe you'll get some luck depending on your game. Distant Light mentioned this, and I'd call it the most crucial point of emphasis in this thread - that's the best route for a normal guy to gain access to these women, or any other celebrity women: know the right people (those who are trusted by members of these exclusive social circles), and have them usher you in.

In short (TL;DR):

1. Network to gain access
2. Be social (read: have game)

Easier said than done, but there's the process in a nutshell for a regular guy.

(12-10-2014 12:18 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

The guys in the pics are married to them though - then you can be even fat and shorter, though all of them are multi-millionaires or billionaires, have high social status in their field & are quite Alpha, but I guess your goal is not to marry a Victoria's Secret model.

I never saw a high level model - who have all net worth in the 8 digits at least - being in a LTR with a man below their financial level. I saw beautiful women born into great wealth marry masculine and even poor Alphas, but not models who usually came from humble origins.

This is a bit inaccurate. Elite models with 7 or 8 figure annual incomes have been known to get with men WELL below their financial level. I'll provide examples below.



On top in this photo is Doutzen Kroes with her husband, Sunnery James. She is a VS Angel and one of the highest earning models on the planet (estimate income last year: $8 million). He is a DJ, and not a remarkably well known one at that. The duo he is a part of has merely 67,000 followers on twitter (compared to the 759,000 who follow her). She started dating him in 2009, when she was already a well established model and among the top 15 highest earners in the modeling world (estimated incomes by year: 2007 - $1.5 million, 2008 - $6 million, 2009 - $6 million, 2010 - $6 million, 2012 - $6.9 million, 2014 - $8 million). Sunnery James has never made anything close to what Doutzen has made during the time they have known each other. He's never had anywhere near the fame, and it is doubtful that he comes from a lot of money (Surinamese descendants in the Netherlands rarely do, and if he did its almost certainly not nearly as much as she makes). They are married, and she just had his second child.

Next (middle of the photo) is Candice Swanepoel. Her boyfriend is a Brazilian male model, Hermann Nicoli. He might come from some money (we can't be sure about his background, though odds are he was at least middle/upper middle class in Brazil), but chances are he doesn't come from enough to match the $3 million+ she's been making every year for many years now. She met him when she was 17 (just beginning to model) and he was 23; they've been in an LTR ever since. It is safe to say she has always been WAY above his financial level during their relationship.

Jasmine Tookes, who has walked in several VS shows in recent years and is a VS model, is dating a male model whom she almost certainly outearns (he makes around $265,000; she's almost certainly commanding much higher rates, as tends to be the case with female models relative to their male counterparts)

At the bottom of the photo is Lily Aldridge. Her husband is a somewhat well known musician so she doesn't make my point all that well, though odds are he's not bringing in the $2-3 million+ she pulls every year. What I am trying to say is that models will and often do date below their financial level, especially when the individual they're dating has the kind of occupation that gives them the "access" I mentioned above (ex: male models and DJs are popular choices).

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(12-13-2014 05:31 AM)Excelsior Wrote:  

Obtaining regular access to women who are fashion models but not at the VS level or close to it is hard, but doable - Distant Light can show you that. Getting to that elite tier of legitimate, in demand, professional models at or close to VS level and staying there is another story. Your odds are slim, because you'll need access, and that is hard to get without having special circumstances (fame, wealth, etc). These women are essentially celebrities, and average folks only rarely gain access to celebrities in a social setting.

I agree with your post totally Excelsior. Most of the models I met were more in the category of wannabe or part-time not making a full living off it.

And I agree that I worded my statements regarding dating below their financial level in too absolute terms.

If you have access, 200k comfortable income, an Alpha frame or sexual abundance, then you have of course an option to date or even marry a VS model whose net worth is 20mio$. You are comfortable & high enough in market value, that you can easily pull other girls of similar beauty. She can love you are leave you.

The 3 examples you pointed out are true in the pure monetary category, but they are:

- DJ - mid-level even with "only" 67.000 Twitter followers is millionaire with a high SMV and access to celebrities. Why should he care if she has 10 times the money he has?
- Male model - the same - she may be worth 20 times his, but you can bet your ass off that he can work in the industry much longer and still has access to best poon for years to come. Also high market value and sexual abundance. If he retains a strong Alpha frame, then she can be a billionaire and he will still be the boss in the LTR.
- Caleb Followill - yes, he may not be worth 20+ mio. $, but he is a bloody musician and makes his living off it. Do I have to spell out the fascination that women have with musicians - even semi-successful ones?

All 3 examples are men with very high SMV, enough cash to be comfortable and enough access and maybe some Game to sleep with 100 8-9s each year without cold-approaching 3000/year. Yeah - I agree and concede that my statement was too extreme.

However if you are a mid to low level corporate drone making 70k a year and having 2 weeks holidays per year, I seriously doubt that you can pull anyone even remotely similar to those women - access or no access. And by pull I mean in this case pull into a LTR or marriage. A ONS - sure - if you meet her at a party, strike her fancy and Game her - you can fuck her.

The truths of the sexual market apply to the models too, though agreed - they are not really based on money alone - some fame, Game, some money, Alpha state - all of that matters too. I personally would give all 3 of those men a 9-10 sexual market value regardless whether there are guys like Leo DiCaprio around or Clooney with an off-the-scale value.

The reason is that they could - if they wanted to - have access to dozens of 9s every year without much effort. So yes - if you are one of them you can pull a VS who has more money than you but not really much higher REAL sexual market value - especially since theirs starts to wane in their end 20s too.

[Pride male]

For regular guys...a miracle.

[Distant Light]

(12-12-2014 12:43 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 04:01 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 05:03 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

...
- When I'm pulling it's generally "In 5mins, lets roll out" there is no BS power games we go, I head straight to the bedroom taking off my cloth as she goes to the bathroom.

That type of stuff comes from experience/growth exploring different concepts. Most people hear socializing/networking and think of this asexual "safe" way of being whereas for me...
...

That's one hell of an escalation tactic - gotta try that one. I too managed to pull in a similar way to my place, but often did not escalate in such a straightforward way.

Good stuff.

Do you think that's more effective because if your vibe is relaxed?

He said this:

Quote:

It's a highly interpretative "gray area" allowing you to EASILY meet, flirt and/or get very sexual without coming off as formal, traditional, uptight, or serious

I think having that grey area leads to a lot more flexibility. It's a huge advantage to have the girl guessing what your intentions are, versus having her know from the start that you are thirsty.

I know conventional game says you should be straight forward, but I think that's outdated. There are so many thirsty guys out there and women have caught on.

For both aspects it's completely a "mindfuck" for them where essentially their seducing themselves in their own head. To them it's sort of like "this guy can give 2 fucks" but when they interact and observe me it's such an enjoyable experience. So for them it's not pressure and complete freedom of choice on their part.

Which is why MANY chicks always tell me they want to have a long term relationship BUT they understand I don't believe in such things...So their just willing to hookup because at the end of the day it's much more relaxing for her than going on some date or hanging with some dude who REALLY WANTS TO FUCK.

Quote:

These women, as Jariel noted, are not merely models in name only. They are distinguished by their ability to regularly obtain paid work. They earn a lot, but they work a lot as well. Fashion is not as glamourous as it seems - the industry crushes a lot of dreams, undercompensates a lot of people, and those few who do make it truly earn their longevity. These models are working out constantly, flying all across the world regularly, doing shoots at all manner of inconvenient times in the morning and events throughout the days, and so on, so forth. Their schedules can be crazy, irregular, and entirely less predictable than they probably would like.

This is what creates the access problem. These girls make time for close personal friends outside of the fashion world, as that time is valuable and limited. The rest of their time is spent with those within the fashion or celebrity world. When you talk about models at the VS level or close to it, you're starting to talk about girls who don't party or socialize in quite the way we're used to seeing. Because of their commitments, they are less often found in the open venues (your standard bars, clubs, run of the mill house parties, etc) regular guys can access and more often found in more exclusive gatherings or events frequented by a disproportionately high number of fashion industry folks and celebrities. Hence the access issue.

This is 100% right...

Working models and top tier models rarely go out, you will only find them at openings, their bdays or friends bdays, promotional/branding events, and when they're just visiting.

The "darkside" is the fact that many models are struggling/broke which is why usually a "rich guy" is so much more worthwhile than a random/normal guy because it's the difference between going back to their small EE/Midwest/Brazilian town and extra years living in some top tier city. (A few double up as escorts) A cool ass rich guy would CLEAN UP.

Thing is, it's this reality that causes a vibe of "abundance" within the men of these realms because the hotties I knew/met in 2011 for the most part MAJORITY disappeared. 2014, new ones popped up and like one Director Of Marketer once said "As I get old, their age remains the same".

I know with full confidence that at 45-50 with the connections I have I will STILL be able to roll up and meet some young model type.

Quote:

However if you are a mid to low level corporate drone making 70k a year and having 2 weeks holidays per year, I seriously doubt that you can pull anyone even remotely similar to those women - access or no access.

The truths of the sexual market apply to the models too, though agreed - they are not really based on money alone - some fame, Game, some money, Alpha state - all of that matters too. I personally would give all 3 of those men a 9-10 sexual market value regardless whether there are guys like Leo DiCaprio around or Clooney with an off-the-scale value.

The reason is that they could - if they wanted to - have access to dozens of 9s every year without much effort. So yes - if you are one of them you can pull a VS who has more money than you but not really much higher REAL sexual market value - especially since theirs starts to wane in their end 20s too.

It's possible JUST less-likely...

One of my good friends used to date a model chick who he actually meet by LUCK when he ended up at the opening of a new nightclub. Chick was very feminine back then I didn't live this lifestyle so to me it was like "Damn, this girl is a keeper!!" (Super affectionate)

Their is a sub-set of guys who more or less hookup with way more hotties due to their social abilities, they are the glue that keeps all together, celebs are part of "their" entourage. (Bald guy in OP is perfect example, I used to see him out everyday)

P.S...This might be his new girl although I'm more impressed with the fact that he is connected to so many other "connectors" that if he decided to never meet a new person again he will STILL always have access to basically any celeb/model he so chooses. (From their it would just come down to his personality and how he is)

[Excelsior]

(12-13-2014 06:01 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

The 3 examples you pointed out are true in the pure monetary category, but they are:

- DJ - mid-level even with "only" 67.000 Twitter followers is millionaire with a high SMV and access to celebrities. Why should he care if she has 10 times the money he has?

I think you're overestimating James' wealth a bit. I am pretty sure James isn't a millionaire. At the very least he wasn't anywhere near one early on in their relationship. He has 67,000 followers now, many probably thanks in large part to the notoriety his attachment to Doutzen gives him. In 2009, this woman was pulling in $6 million. I wouldn't be surprised if he managed 1-3% of that figure that year as a DJ with little notoriety outside of some Surinamese and Amsterdam neighborhoods, and even that might be optimistic (DJs, by and large, very commonly make chicken scratch; he may very well have had a day job at the time). He still isn't very well known at all, but she promptly married him and had a baby anyway.

He was a reasonably successful DJ at the local level (in some portions of the Amsterdam party scene, perhaps known a little in Suriname), which is what gave him "access". DJing is cool, which does mean high SMV. I'm very confident that he was not pulling in a ton of money though, and probably still is not - she probably has FAR more than merely 10 times his wealth (she's making $6-8 million consistently, while I'd bet he's barely hitting the low six figures, if that). Again, James is not even really a D-list celebrity.

He got to Doutzen via access, smv, and game, as he's simply never had much cash. Again, access is the big key and, when combined with some decent game, can overcome a lack of real wealth (especially if the access is gained in a somewhat high SMV position, i.e. DJ, male mode, photographer, promoter/connector, etc).

Quote:

Male model - the same - she may be worth 20 times his, but you can bet your ass off that he can work in the industry much longer and still has access to best poon for years to come. Also high market value and sexual abundance. If he retains a strong Alpha frame, then she can be a billionaire and he will still be the boss in the LTR.

Makes sense.

Quote:

Caleb Followill - yes, he may not be worth 20+ mio. $, but he is a bloody musician and makes his living off it. Do I have to spell out the fascination that women have with musicians - even semi-successful ones?

All 3 examples are men with very high SMV, enough cash to be comfortable and enough access and maybe some Game to sleep with 100 8-9s each year without cold-approaching 3000/year. Yeah - I agree and concede that my statement was too extreme.

Then we're in agreement, as that was my main point. Access is probably more crucial than money when it comes to reaching these women. Money, of course, tends to make access much easier to obtain, but if you have relatively little money and somehow obtain access, you can succeed.

Quote:

However if you are a mid to low level corporate drone making 70k a year and having 2 weeks holidays per year, I seriously doubt that you can pull anyone even remotely similar to those women - access or no access.

I agree that your typical low/mid-level corporate drone would have a very hard time getting close to these women. I disagree as to the reasons why.

The low level corporate drone is not going to have a hard time because he makes $70k. As noted above, I highly doubt that Sunnery James was making much more than that when he and Doutzen Kroes got together. Many of the young male models these girls date don't get much more than that either, and the same goes for many of the photographers, club promoters, and others who sometimes date high end models on the low for decent lengths of time.

The reason the low level corporate drone is going to have a problem is because of access. The low level corporate drone isn't making much less than the DJ or the photographer, but he simply doesn't have the means to break into the social circles that these girls roll in. He goes to normal clubs and meets normal girls (these are venues only very rarely frequented by these high end models), while the photographer/male model gets invited via word of mouth to exclusive get togethers at which he might happen to bump into some of these high end models on a more regular basis.

If you are a low/mid-level corporate drone and you somehow have access (ex: you somehow have become close to a very powerful connector), you can overcome this problem. I'm sure it has happened before and continues to happen today, but the odds are very small because men in such a situation are just rarely connected like that. It is very hard for them to get access, but much easier for the male models, club promoters, photographers, DJs, etc. Hell, even the bouncers at the big clubs probably get more access.

That's the real issue - average-joe corporate just can't get connected/network the way some of these other men can. Again, if he can overcome that problem he might have a chance, but that's a very tall order.

[General Mayhem]

(12-11-2014 05:03 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

For both aspects it's completely a "mindfuck" for them where essentially their seducing themselves in their own head. To them it's sort of like "this guy can give 2 fucks" but when they interact and observe me it's such an enjoyable experience. So for them it's not pressure and complete freedom of choice on their part.

Which is why MANY chicks always tell me they want to have a long term relationship BUT they understand I don't believe in such things...So their just willing to hookup because at the end of the day it's much more relaxing for her than going on some date or hanging with some dude who REALLY WANTS TO FUCK.

Damn, this thread has gathered way more value than I thought it would.

I'm going to steal a page from your book and give it a try.

The rest of this thread too, it is motivating to see what you can do with tight game.

Thanks everyone.

[DVY]

Haven't swooped any VS models but have swooped a fair amount of print and minor runway models.

For me its Clubs and high-end Bars.

I've usually walked up to girls and just spit a little of verbal game "Hi, I'd love if you came and join US. I am over here *point at table*. Just come grab a drink. No strings attached."

Its strange that "No strings attached" seals the deal every time BUT if you really think about it thats the glue. Then grab her by the hand and walk her to your spot.

No obligations, no fucks given. Come or don't come. Ill bring her to the table, introduce her around, pour her and her GFs a drink. If any of her GFs don't drink, Ill let them know that I can roll them a joint later. Then go socialize w/my friends. Be hospitable, be friendly, be fun. I have zero social expectations of her EXCEPT to be polite.

This weekend, I pulled 12-14 girls unto the b-day table we were at from my trips to the bathroom and back. I paid exactly 0 dollars for that table, but did drop a 20 dollar tip to the promoter.

Honestly its all about friendship, fun and letting loose. I break this rule occasionally if I meet a girl I just LOVE, but that rare.

Think about making the night enjoyable for the girls, for your friends and lighten the load for the promoters/connectors. Help them help you.

That mentality alone will get you SOOO FAR in nightlife.

[Rush87]

I would 100% disagree with it requiring "an insane amount of game".

Hotter girls don't require superior game. IMO all girls respond to an above average level of game [On average].

Where it gets difficult is when a girl is well above your level of attractiveness. Essentially a guy needs to make up the gap elsewhere.

That can be looks, money, success, game, confidence etc. If a guy has access to Victoria Secret models he isn't going to have to be joe perfect in the game department. He is just going to need to have 'decent' game and a few qualities which make him desirable to the girl.

Good luck getting access to them though lol. They work insane schedules. Really their closest friends only have regular access to them.

[sandman972]

I think getting women of this quality is definitely has to do with fame, money, looks, game etc. but more connected to their access to this caliber of women on a daily basis.

I remember a while back I was reading a Roosh post about how to get hot women, and his answer was simple: Talk to more hot women.

The simplicity of that answer really put it all in perspective. I can tell you that if every 6 or 7 that I spoke to when I go out gaming was an 8 or 9, by probability I would have alot more sexy women in my notch count. However the reality is, the average girl Im exposed to IS NOT an 8+.
Im sure this varies depending where you live/where you go out, but generally I think that's a fair statement to say.

The point Im trying to get at is this : I know when I go out, women find me attractive, Im confident about my game, and I have the tools to lay some sexy women, but when I find myself going home with a 6 or 7, I always think about how many 8+'s I spoke to that night, and the answer is not many or not enough. Nor is it my fault, as I would have approached them but the scarcity of this quality leaves me with no other choice sometimes (which is why Iv concluded my only other option at this moment in my life is to seriously dive into day-game, and I dont do it enough).

So when I see some guy that is less alpha than me, lower game than me, I do ask myself " Just how in the hell is she with him?" , but I also remind myself that he probably has an access to beauty that I dont have or is having the luckiest night of his life.

[jariel]

(01-05-2015 02:13 PM)sandman972 Wrote:  

The simplicity of that answer really put it all in perspective. I can tell you that if every 6 or 7 that I spoke to when I go out gaming was an 8 or 9, by probability I would have alot more sexy women in my notch count. However the reality is, the average girl Im exposed to IS NOT an 8+.

That's real talk from Sandman.

I've said this a million times, but the best looking chicks at average clubs are 7's. The lack of access to 8s and up is the main reason why strip club game is on the rise.

A chick recently took me out to a spot where there were at least five 8s and up, the chicks in there were so bad the place was packed until 5 A.M., and that was on a Tuesday night. There aren't too many venues an average Joe can get into and actually be able to converse with chicks of that caliber of attractiveness.

Note: I don't condone trickin' off your money at strip clubs nor buying pussy, let's be real, most aren't spending the money to get real action from the chicks, if anything, it just gets them horny enough to go home and fuck their below-average chick and they can fantasize about what they saw in the club while doing it.

[Merenguero]

I don't even know what a VS Model is, but I would guess that we are talking about the most attractive type of women. Get in shape, catch a flight to Miami, go to the beach, and fearlessly approach. I've never heard a guy who has taken those steps complain that there are no women in the United States or that it is impossible to meet or swoop models.

[jariel]

(01-05-2015 05:32 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

I don't even know what a VS Model is, but I would guess that we are talking about the most attractive type of women. Get in shape, catch a flight to Miami, go to the beach, and fearlessly approach. I've never heard a guy who has taken those steps complain that there are no women in the United States or that it is impossible to meet or swoop models.

The OP is referring to a Victoria's Secret Model.

[Sidney Crosby]

[xpatplayer]

Excelsior nailed it with the access part. That's important, the same way being in a fraternity is important to swoop the best sorority chicks. You need access to the very-high-end if you want the best chances at swooping these chicks, who are essentially supermodels. This access could be money or could be connections.

Once you're in, remember that these girls are used to being treated like supermodels. They know that millions of guys jerk off to them when their girlfriends or wives leave VS catalogs back home. They know that they can stop traffic. They also know that most people treat them differently as a result and they can sense it.

What you need to do is treat them like any other chicks. Don't treat them in a special way and don't discuss their jobs. They want a guy they're attracted to and the best way to deattract them is to treat them even slightly different. By different, I mean to pedestalize. You wouldn't want to treat them like the 6 you met on OKC, even though the basics remain the same.

[General Mayhem]

(01-06-2015 11:57 AM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

Excelsior nailed it with the access part. That's important, the same way being in a fraternity is important to swoop the best sorority chicks. You need access to the very-high-end if you want the best chances at swooping these chicks, who are essentially supermodels. This access could be money or could be connections.

Once you're in, remember that these girls are used to being treated like supermodels. They know that millions of guys jerk off to them when their girlfriends or wives leave VS catalogs back home. They know that they can stop traffic. They also know that most people treat them differently as a result and they can sense it.

What you need to do is treat them like any other chicks. Don't treat them in a special way and don't discuss their jobs. They want a guy they're attracted to and the best way to deattract them is to treat them even slightly different. By different, I mean to pedestalize. You wouldn't want to treat them like the 6 you met on OKC, even though the basics remain the same.

Exactly.

The takeaway I got from this thread is that social circle game will always be important for the international playboy. I think some people think it ends after college. Fuck that.

[Excelsior]

(01-06-2015 12:13 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

(01-06-2015 11:57 AM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

Excelsior nailed it with the access part. That's important, the same way being in a fraternity is important to swoop the best sorority chicks. You need access to the very-high-end if you want the best chances at swooping these chicks, who are essentially supermodels. This access could be money or could be connections.

Once you're in, remember that these girls are used to being treated like supermodels. They know that millions of guys jerk off to them when their girlfriends or wives leave VS catalogs back home. They know that they can stop traffic. They also know that most people treat them differently as a result and they can sense it.

What you need to do is treat them like any other chicks. Don't treat them in a special way and don't discuss their jobs. They want a guy they're attracted to and the best way to deattract them is to treat them even slightly different. By different, I mean to pedestalize. You wouldn't want to treat them like the 6 you met on OKC, even though the basics remain the same.

Exactly.

The takeaway I got from this thread is that social circle game will always be important for the international playboy. I think some people think it ends after college. Fuck that.

You're correct. It is difficult to understate how misguided those who dismiss the value of social circle game really are. It is crucial at all levels - high school, college, and well beyond that.

The fact that we're on a forum that heavily emphasizes international game should only highlight this. Social circle game is especially crucial for foreigners in distant lands. The fact is that if you are in a foreign land and you want access to the most attractive, high quality women in that society (not mere groupies or unspectacular looking girls just looking to sate their curiousity), you need to know people.

Unsurprisingly, most very attractive and high quality girls around the world are not willing to just jump on the first foreign dick they see for shits and giggles. Quite the contrary - they're probably more wary of foreigners than anything. These men from abroad are unusual to them, strange, don't understand their language and customs that well, and aren't quite as used to their country as they are. Why bother with these foreigners when these beautiful, high quality women have access to elite men from their own society who aren't strangers?

The answer to that last question is social circle game: if these women can see that these "strangers" have been accepted by social circles consisting of their compatriots and peers (who are not strange and who they trust and respect), then they'll probably be more open to associating romantically with this foreigner. There'll be less social stigma (girls abroad are often judged for hooking up with foreigners, but that's less likely if this foreigner has been socially accepted) and she'll fell less out of her element (non-strangers accept this foreign stranger, so maybe he isn't so strange after all). Plus, integration into foreign social circles can make it easier for you to learn about and internalize the cultural nuances necessary to best integrate yourself into the foreign society/culture (thus looking less out of place and maximizing potential social and romantic success).

Great social circle game is the ultimate force multiplier - it massively improves your results wherever you are whenever you have it.

You don't have to travel to take advantage of it either. If you're a regular young professional guy and you want regular access to a lot of high quality, model-caliber women, you're most likely to get that via social circle - these girls aren't in clubs as often as many others, and even when they are they tend to prefer pairing with men who are already "vetted" by their peer group. They're harder to approach for men who aren't pre-selected.

Aside from the access it gives you, social circle game cuts down on your own workload. High quality women are more likely to be presented to you in a good social circle (through the social circle's connections - friends of friends), and you will not have to spend as much energy going to locate them. The energy you spend convincing them to be open to you will be lower as well, since you'll already be pre-selected or "vetted" with your existing connections to the social circle (people she likes, trusts and respects have accepted you, making it easier for her to do so).

TL;DR: Social circle game is crucial no matter who or where you are. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Distant Light]

Some solid stuff in here

Which as much as my focus and interest tends to go ashtray (high end scene doesn't play amazing music, atleast for me) when I'm actually there in the right setting I always am reminded "nothing else can compare to the quality".

NYE I purposely went to a house party type of event (chick who invited me was a model) and then decided to head over to my usual venues, went in free ($300 for a ticket) and PACKED with hot chicks. Not even 15mins in a rather short but hot russian chick (signature long pony tail) was hovering. (I was whacked out my mind way before even showing up)

Saw a few friends and was reminded that no matter how much I distance myself I will always comeback...

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-07-2015 04:56 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

Some solid stuff in here

Which as much as my focus and interest tends to go ashtray (high end scene doesn't play amazing music, atleast for me) when I'm actually there in the right setting I always am reminded "nothing else can compare to the quality".

NYE I purposely went to a house party type of event (chick who invited me was a model) and then decided to head over to my usual venues, went in free ($300 for a ticket) and PACKED with hot chicks. Not even 15mins in a rather short but hot russian chick (signature long pony tail) was hovering. (I was whacked out my mind way before even showing up)

Saw a few friends and was reminded that no matter how much I distance myself I will always comeback...

Your lifestyle coaching may not be that bad - you could monetize it similar to Christian McQueen offering it to wealthy Betas or guys learning Game, who want to get a feel for it. You would have to go out with another bloke that way, but it might net you easily 6 figures in a year while offering some really helpful coaching service.

Those guys might be able to copy that by going the "cool businessman" kind of route later on.

I met a few of those guys who tried such a Game in Warsaw. One dude flew over from London almost every weekend and had bottle service at the Platinium club in Warsaw. Problem is that Poland does not have much of a club culture, he himself was a rather sombre guy and to top it off he was not only overweight, but bordering firmly on the obese. Even in Warsaw girls were not impressed with him sufficiently.

For all other guys without boat-loads of money your route of becoming a night club "brand" as a cool "in-guy" is easier said than done. It's not impossible but very likely much harder than running Daygame or Nightgame in the bars of NYC.

But if you ever offer that kind of NYC VIP night game product I would be interested - I expect it to be costly, but that's fine.

[WestIndianArchie]

(01-07-2015 05:07 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

For all other guys without boat-loads of money your route of becoming a night club "brand" as a cool "in-guy" is easier said than done. It's not impossible but very likely much harder than running Daygame or Nightgame in the bars of NYC.

I seriously wonder if this is teachable.

WIA

[DVY]

The moment you start regularly start paying for bottles expect to stay a bottle client.

Its much better to grease the promoter and sit at his table.

Thats basicaly nightlife 101.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-07-2015 11:47 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-07-2015 05:07 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

For all other guys without boat-loads of money your route of becoming a night club "brand" as a cool "in-guy" is easier said than done. It's not impossible but very likely much harder than running Daygame or Nightgame in the bars of NYC.

I seriously wonder if this is teachable.

WIA

It's hard if you are introverted - essentially you put on an Extrovert's skin and play it for the night similarly to an actor - doing some magic white powder helps with that. Long term I doubt that guys will be able to pull it off effectively as they won't enjoy the process much.

The guy I mentioned in the Warsaw clubs - he was too laid back and introverted to run club Game. He would have been better served at renting a good central apartment in Warsaw and running weekly parties there as a host. He could have paid a student connector to organize a surplus of girls.

But alas - back then I did not have a clue about official Game teachings and such ideas would not cross my mind and his neither.

[Downtown]

I had a chance once. I dated a Vogue covergirl for a little while. We only dated for about a month and I've wracked my brain trying to figure out what I did wrong. Truth is, I didn't do anything wrong. I played it right and tight and yet I still couldn't make it happen.

I'm definitely upper middle class. I make well into the 6 figures. I'd certainly be considered alpha by all normal standards. I have perfect logistics and know game.

I just couldn't compete with her memories. I couldn't compete with the guys who have the apartment in paris, country home in the french countryside and the villa in Bali. This shit is real. I've got a great home in a great town in the best neighborhood. But thats it.

Talking to her seemed like she was name dropping all the time, but she wasn't, she really was friends with such and such grammy winning world famous rocker and said rocker's wife is her best friend. She really was backstage at Jay Z and Beyonce in Paris. She really did attend that event the other night with the president.

There was nothing I could do.

Granted, she was a little bit older (30) and was already looking into the future where her looks and fame didn't carry the day for her. She was looking for an Alpha/Fame/Provider type.

I just couldn't make it happen. I've debriefed it many times trying to ID what I did wrong but I really dont think there was much I could do.

Russian super models are there are own special class of game. Game, I don't have. Give me your standard american 8 and I've got no problems, but this globe trotting cover girl stuff I just couldn't manage.

Sadly, I doubt I'll get many more chances to refine my russian super model game haha.

Oh well!