[Veloce]

I know a lot of guys use peanut oil or coconut oil for high heat cooking, but I actually don't find coconut well suited for this purpose as it has a smoke point at 350F, and when I'm searing a steak I go well above that point. Peanut oil is good but runs expensive (as does coconut oil).

It's surprising to me that rice bran oil isn't more popular. It has a much higher smoke point (450F) and is almost completely neutral in flavor. I like extra virgin coconut oil raw to use as an anti-inflammatory, amongst other benefits, but I'm not sold on its cooking properties. Rice bran oil is also about half as expensive, depending on where you're buying it.

Read up on its other benefits on its wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_bran_oil

As a professional and home cook, it's my preferred cooking fat, and I think more people don't use it because they've never heard of it. It's not commonly available in standard grocery stores; you have to go to asian markets to find it. There are organic producers of it as well, including here in California. I highly recommend you do your own research and give it a try. It is perfectly suited for searing, sauteeing, wok frying, and deep frying. An incredibly versatile fat that does not easily go rancid.

[Gunner]

I love peanut oil for my steaks, previously I used grapeseed but the high content of poly fat made me switch.

[komatiite]

Thoughts on grapeseed? I buy expensive GS oil and find it still smokes a lot.

[kbell]

Aren't there more AGE's formed from cooking super high? The 06 ratio looks bad, http://preventdisease.com/news/13/021113...ges.shtml, and its likely to have industrial chemicals in it from not being cold pressed.

[kmhour]

I use coconut oil sometimes for quickly cooking eggs (get it good and hot and drop eggs in and they'll cook in a matter of seconds), but find it definitely imparts a coconut taste that isn't really something I'd want to give a nice steak.

[Veloce]

(11-24-2014 06:54 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

Thoughts on grapeseed? I buy expensive GS oil and find it still smokes a lot.

For cooking oils, you want fats that are higher in monounsaturated and saturated fat. Polyunsaturated fat-based oils aren't the best from a health perspective.

Performance-wise, grapeseed is great though. I've used it extensively in professional kitchens and many French chefs swear by it. Rice bran is healthier though due to the higher ratio of monounsaturated and saturated fat.

I read the point about the Omega3/6 ratio being off...no matter what fat you choose, high heat cooking is something that should be done sparingly and your diet should not be based off of it. I already take an Omega supplement and I typically don't eat high heat-cooked food on a daily basis.

But if you ARE going to cook with high heat, I believe rice bran is the way to go. I should have emphasized that point in the beginning. Seared steaks, wok fried foods, and deep fried foods are clearly unhealthy, but they are made more so by the use of corn oil, hydrogenated oil, and other garbage fats. So for THESE cooking purposes, I recommend rice bran oil.

And of course, don't forget to baste with butter

When I'm sauteeing vegetables, I do a reverse process than what most cooks do, even in professional kitchens. Often for a side of sauteed spinach or greens, cooks will heat up a bit of oil in a pan until smoking, sometimes using olive oil as in Italian kitchens, which is a terrible practice. When the pan and fat are hot, they'll throw in the greens and put in a little bit of water in the pan to generate a flash of steam and help the greens wilt.

I do it the opposite. I get the pan screaming hot, then put in the water and as it's evaporating, throw the greens in to wilt quickly. Then before the water evaporates, which would cause the greens to stick to the pan, I put in about a half tablespoon of fat; either olive oil, butter, or rice bran oil depending on how much longer I'm going to cook the greens or vegetables. If it's a short cooking time, I'll use olive oil; since it doesn't cook as long the flavor is preserved and it's getting heated to under 200F instead of 350F+ as it would in a screaming hot pan without food in it.
If it's a longer time, like for broccoli, I'll use rice bran oil.

[Veloce]

(11-24-2014 07:18 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Aren't there more AGE's formed from cooking super high? The 06 ratio looks bad, http://preventdisease.com/news/13/021113...ges.shtml, and its likely to have industrial chemicals in it from not being cold pressed.

Plant fats don't have to be cold-pressed to be free of industrial chemicals. There are several extraction methods but you are correct that the use of hexane as a solvent probably isn't the best for you. If this was a major concern for any potential customers, I'm sure you could research specific brands that don't use hexane as a solvent to extract their rice bran oil.

[kbell]

I've been curious about tallow. Supposedly it can handle high heats, and it was the fat McDonalds used to use when their fries were excellent. Although the highest I can get heat safely with a fry daddy which caps at 375F which takes forever to deep fry.

I like my steaks broiled or bbq with wood chips. Both aren't very high in extra fat. Never seared a steak before.

[Veloce]

(11-24-2014 10:25 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I've been curious about tallow. Supposedly it can handle high heats, and it was the fat McDonalds used to use when their fries were excellent. Although the highest I can get heat safely with a fry daddy which caps at 375F which takes forever to deep fry.

I like my steaks broiled or bbq with wood chips. Both aren't very high in extra fat. Never seared a steak before.

tallow and leaf lard basically act as hydrogenated oils, they are the original highly stable fat that solidify at high temperatures. The obvious benefit is they are unprocessed and not nearly as poisonous as hydrogenated plant oils.

That said, tallow is almost entirely saturated fat. I know the recent literature shows that saturated fat is good for you in limited quantities, but there's a limit to everything. For certain applications, like pastry (tallow and lard are amazing for pie dough) I give it the thumbs up, but I don't think you'd want to use it as a cooking fat on a regular basis.

375 is about as high as you'd want to go for deep frying. What are you frying that you want to go higher?

[kbell]

Sweet potatoes fries and russets. I do it rarely for making homemade french fries. Its a ton of work, not healthy, and my family can eat about 5 lbs of it faster than I can cook it. Once it cools though it loses its flavor. I've been using peanut oil when I deep fry though. Sweet potatoes themselves never get crispy.

The oil gets solid at high temperatures? That's weird its solid at room temperatures as well.

[Duke Castile]

Veloce, lately I have been cooking uncured bacon (free of all the crap) and then using a small part of the leftover grease to sear and then cook my steaks.

This gives it a nice flavor and it seems to handle the high heat also.

Thoughts?

Also check out what I did over in the "bone broth" thread.

[Kangaroo]

How about cooking steak on a frying pay on a gas stove with with olive oil, not recommended?

[kosko]

(11-24-2014 11:11 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Sweet potatoes fries and russets. I do it rarely for making homemade french fries. Its a ton of work, not healthy, and my family can eat about 5 lbs of it faster than I can cook it. Once it cools though it loses its flavor. I've been using peanut oil when I deep fry though. Sweet potatoes themselves never get crispy.

The oil gets solid at high temperatures? That's weird its solid at room temperatures as well.

If you want your sweet potato fries to get crispy you should Blanche then first. You can Blanche them in oil until they start to get soft, bring them up, cool down, drop again to finish frying for a few more minutes till they are crispy.

You can Blanche them in water also but its more work since you have to let them air dry well to get as much outter moisture off so you don't blow up your fryer from all that excess water.

Double frying is the best way to get them crispy since you gotta get as much starch out they won't crisp.

[Veloce]

(11-24-2014 11:11 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Sweet potatoes fries and russets. I do it rarely for making homemade french fries. Its a ton of work, not healthy, and my family can eat about 5 lbs of it faster than I can cook it. Once it cools though it loses its flavor. I've been using peanut oil when I deep fry though. Sweet potatoes themselves never get crispy.

The oil gets solid at high temperatures? That's weird its solid at room temperatures as well.

sorry, when I said "high temperatures", I mean room temperature.

Are you double/triple blanching the potatoes or coating them in any kind of starch? I know it's more work but as long as you're making the effort of making fries...

For the ultimate fry try the following, and feel free to make a 2 day process out of it to make it easier: Cut the fries into 1/2" sticks, lay them in a single layer, and ideally you want to steam them for 20 minutes. If you cant steam them, cook them in water until they're about 3/4 of the way cooked. If they're too soft they'll fall apart. Remove with a slotted spoon and put them on a wire rack and leave them in the fridge for a couple hours, ideally overnight. The dry environment of the fridge will wick away excess moisture.

At this point, there is the optional step of coating your fries in starch; there is a specially made product called Crisp Coat UC that commercial fry manufacturers use: http://www.modernistpantry.com/crisp-coat-uc.html it's basically amylose (technically a resistant starch) and tapioca maltodextrin (an additive used in a lot of food products, it's perfectly harmless and a very versatile additive) Once the fries are tossed in this powder you would blanch them in oil for 3 minutes at 325F, let them cool and crank up your fryer to 375, and then fry them again until golden brown. Promise you they'll be the best fries on earth.

[Veloce]

(11-25-2014 05:07 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

Veloce, lately I have been cooking uncured bacon (free of all the crap) and then using a small part of the leftover grease to sear and then cook my steaks.

This gives it a nice flavor and it seems to handle the high heat also.

Thoughts?

Also check out what I did over in the "bone broth" thread.

Bacon grease is good for 1-2 cooks after rendering. If you're specifically going to save the fat, then I suggest cooking the bacon low and slow at first to render the fat, strain and save the fat, and then crank up the pan to crisp up the bacon. The rendered fat will be more stable that way.

Just replied to the bone broth thread.

[Veloce]

(11-25-2014 07:28 AM)Kangaroo Wrote:  

How about cooking steak on a frying pay on a gas stove with with olive oil, not recommended?

Olive oil is not a good fat for high heat cooking. If you're gently sweating some shallots and spinach it's perfectly fine.

[kosko]

Rice Bran Oil is good for the skin also. Its full of Vitamin E with is good for the skin, plus it adsorbs much better than coconut oil.

[Ensam]

Avocado oil has the highest smoke point (520 F) of the common cooking oils.

[Duke Castile]

(11-25-2014 06:55 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

Avocado oil has the highest smoke point (520 F) of the common cooking oils.

That's interesting. I just bought some and had no idea.

[komatiite]

I have been cooking everything with RB oil, really liking it.

I just found an old Lodge Dutch oven that I got years ago, it's super rancid smelling, the seasoning must be bad. I just scrubbed the fuck out of it with steel wool, and now is sitting in my hot oven to burn off the rest of the crud on it. I am going to try out how rice bran oil works as a seasoning.

[kbell]

If you refrigerate the peel sweet potatoes do they get those oxidization brown spots that happens to them when they are out for say 10 minutes?

[Veloce]

(02-22-2015 10:18 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

I have been cooking everything with RB oil, really liking it.

I just found an old Lodge Dutch oven that I got years ago, it's super rancid smelling, the seasoning must be bad. I just scrubbed the fuck out of it with steel wool, and now is sitting in my hot oven to burn off the rest of the crud on it. I am going to try out how rice bran oil works as a seasoning.

Yeah just crank that sucker super hot and hit it with water and pour it off, should root out all the old fat. Do it a few times, reseason and you should be good to go

[Veloce]

(02-22-2015 10:22 PM)kbell Wrote:  

If you refrigerate the peel sweet potatoes do they get those oxidization brown spots that happens to them when they are out for say 10 minutes?

I'm pretty sure they will. If you want to cook a big batch of sweet potatoes, just roast or boil them in their skin, cool them, and then store them with the skins on and peel to order.

However, the flesh will still darken due to absorbing some of the dark pigment from the peels. The only way you could delay this process is to coat the peeled potatoes in some sort of acid wash after peeling, like malic/citric/ascorbic acid diluted with some water. But slightly oxidized sweet potatoes won't really have a worse flavor.

[Gunner]

Veloce, what do you think on peanut vs rice bran oil for searing steaks?

[Veloce]

(02-23-2015 10:35 PM)Gunner Wrote:  

Veloce, what do you think on peanut vs rice bran oil for searing steaks?

peanut oil is great for high heat cooking, it's just usually more expensive.