[mvp]

(05-31-2015 12:09 PM)GetinGetout Wrote:  

can anyone here suggest a good flight school/program? im in Socal but can travel for the summer to get some training

ATP, largest flight school, not expensive, offers credit and has very good contacts for when you graduate plus offer you an instructors job if you don't fail more than 3 checkrides. Prepare to work hard as they will kick you off the course if you are not progressing.

Did my flight training there and highly recommend it.

https://atpflightschool.com/

[renotime]

What about guys that fly into war zones or conflict areas? Difference in pay?

[el mechanico]

(06-07-2015 06:08 PM)renotime Wrote:  

What about guys that fly into war zones or conflict areas? Difference in pay?

Yes they're called military pilots.

[renotime]

(06-07-2015 07:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(06-07-2015 06:08 PM)renotime Wrote:  

What about guys that fly into war zones or conflict areas? Difference in pay?

Yes they're called military pilots.

I meant guys in the private sector.

[Cheetah]

(06-07-2015 07:46 PM)renotime Wrote:  

(06-07-2015 07:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(06-07-2015 06:08 PM)renotime Wrote:  

What about guys that fly into war zones or conflict areas? Difference in pay?

Yes they're called military pilots.

I meant guys in the private sector.

If you have a quick turnaround in Somalia, that will probably not warrant any extra pay. If you are to be based in a war zone or conflict area, of course they might have to pay danger money to attract [experienced] pilots.

[Cortés]

Let's say that you are just finished flight school, have all of the proper licenses, and maybe 700 flight hours. How do most pilots go about getting the final 800 or so to be eligible to be an airline pilot? Ive heard of guys getting CFI jobs, but from what I've seen/heard you have to get lucky to get a CFI job.

[LeeEnfield303]

Anyone ask NASA Test Pilot? I heard he crossed the Atlantic before Lindbergh...

[chicane]

I'm a Private Pilot, so here are a few more tips.

If you have the capital, and the time for the lessons, you'll be a lot better off buying a used plane for lessons. Personally, I'd buy a Cessna 172 with an IFR panel, but other folks are big fans of the Piper PA28. Fly a lot. Get your instrument rating and fly even more. Make friends with other pilots and fly as safety pilot when they are practicing IFR flight. When you are done, you can sell the plane for close to what you paid for it. Way cheaper and a lot more available than renting if you are flying a lot. Taking girls up to watch fireworks from the air is also cool.

A CFI or CFII makes total crap for money, but you have someone else paying for the flight hours. Getting those tickets is probably a good thing, but it may or may not be worth doing it for the hours.

A lot of former military wind up going to Emory for a degree. They accept CLEP and DANTES/DSST tests for credit. If you are motivated, you can knock out 60+ hours over a summer, that's less than 2 tests a week. There are some excellent online study guides. Plan on dedicating 50+ hours a week and you will do great.

[Cortés]

^^^great info, exactly what i needed to know. A couple more questions: how easy is it to resell used planes? Do alot of people buy used planes, because I would think there arent that many people looking to buy a used plane at any given time. Also, generally how much would it be to rent out a hangar year round, and where would you go about finding open hangar space? Thanks man, I repped you

[Running Turtles]

The information here is very targeted to the US pilot situation. RIslander did a great job, and from what I know about the US, the info is absolutely spot on.

I'm an airline pilot working for a company in Europe and things can be very different with regards to how you can get in to the industry.

As an example, you'll most likely be making a lot more than $50k after 10 years. On the other hand, costs of training are well above $100k and you will need to be in the top 10% of all pilots to get the good jobs.

I don't think there's enough of an audience here to warrant a EU Pilot datasheet, but if you have any questions, by all means ask or PM me.

[chicane]

(06-25-2016 07:52 AM)Cortés Wrote:  

^^^great info, exactly what i needed to know. A couple more questions: how easy is it to resell used planes? Do alot of people buy used planes, because I would think there arent that many people looking to buy a used plane at any given time. Also, generally how much would it be to rent out a hangar year round, and where would you go about finding open hangar space? Thanks man, I repped you

New planes are extremely expensive. A used Cessna 150 can be bought for $10-20K. Personally, I recommend a 172, it will be a lot more comfortable and a better platform for getting an IFR rating, plus much nicer for taking trips in. I think Trade-A-Plane is still the top place to buy and sell planes. I also want to point out that while glass panels are something to drool over, you want to get lots of flight hours for not a lot of money, so look for a dual NavCom with ILS. GPS is really handy, but one that is rated for Instrument flight is going to be a LOT more expensive than a simple hand held unit. So, to answer your question, selling a used plane isn't all that tough, but may take a couple of months.

As far as hangar space, it really depends on where you are. Lots of planes are just tied down,not hangared. Pick up a set of reflective window shields to keep the temperature down.

Also, there is a lot of work you can do yourself on a plane, not everything has to be done by an A&P. In fact there are some places where you can do owner assisted annuals and save money while learning a lot about your plane.

And the single most important bit of advice I got from an instructor "When you take your checkride, make sure to do everything smoothly".

[Cortés]

^^^ interesting. Would you tie down the airplane at an airport or something? How much would that cost?

[chicane]

(06-26-2016 01:13 PM)Cortés Wrote:  

^^^ interesting. Would you tie down the airplane at an airport or something? How much would that cost?

It varies a lot by location and type of airport. A major metropolitan airport can easily run several hundred dollars a month. A small private grass strip further out in the country could be less than $100/month.

On that topic, I strongly recommend that you get comfortable with smaller airstrips. 2000' is a lot of runway for a small single engine plane, even if it doesn't feel like it at first. It will make you a lot more precise in your approaches and landings. I got used to taking the first turnoff at most large airports I landed at after training at small airports.

Arranging for an instructor at a small airport can be a bit more difficult, but it's not uncommon to find a retired CFI who will instruct you.

[cosworth]

I own 2 planes , one a jet the other a piston prop . A lot of my friends fly for UK airlines and RAF .
If you talk to most of them now , they wish they had gone into business / finance made a tonne of money and just flew for fun ..

[Running Turtles]

(06-27-2016 09:11 AM)cosworth Wrote:  

I own 2 planes , one a jet the other a piston prop . A lot of my friends fly for UK airlines and RAF .
If you talk to most of them now , they wish they had gone into business / finance made a tonne of money and just flew for fun ..

Couldn't agree more. Business is a shitload harder than flying though!

Good thing about flying for a living is that you have a lot of free time to start something on the side. Doing it successfully is the tricky part.

[Duke Main]

This thread deserves a bump. If you're interested in becoming a pilot, other than actually going out and flying, one of the best ways you can invest your time is to attend a conference like this one. https://fapa.aero/future/future-landing.asp

Even if you're not ready to get hired by the majors or regionals you can network with other pilots as well as hiring managers and other industry insiders.

[kamoz]

(06-27-2016 04:39 PM)Running Turtles Wrote:  

Business is a shitload harder than flying though!

Good thing about flying for a living is that you have a lot of free time to start something on the side. Doing it successfully is the tricky part.

True and true. Although in professional flying you have a medical to keep up and have to watch out for violations, overall it is a very easy stress-free job. And yes, lots of free time to do something on the side as opposed to slaving away in front of a computer for 12 hours a day with a boss looking over your shoulder. A lot of pilots, especially those from the 'lost decade' (2001-2011) have done a number of things on the side such as real estate or starting businesses.

To give people an idea (for airline flying at least), a 'busy' schedule is 12 days off (which can fall anywhere, not necessarily weekends). The other days in which you 'work' may be on average 3 legs of flying, which may amount to 6 hours of actual work that day. The rest of the time you're either at home or at the hotel. If you can keep your work mobile on a laptop you're golden.

What's a not busy schedule? Sitting reserve. Basically you're a backup pilot in case a pilot with a schedule calls in sick or misconnects. In that case you're basically being paid to sit at home on call. There may be cases where you don't get called for an entire month!

(12-20-2017 10:10 AM)Duke Main Wrote:  

This thread deserves a bump. If you're interested in becoming a pilot, other than actually going out and flying, one of the best ways you can invest your time is to attend a conference like this one. https://fapa.aero/future/future-landing.asp

Even if you're not ready to get hired by the majors or regionals you can network with other pilots as well as hiring managers and other industry insiders.

This thread does indeed deserve a healthy bump. In the U.S. we are seeing perhaps the biggest hiring boom for the airlines in aviation history. Now couldn't be a better time to get onboard. Where regional pilots use to start on a salary in the high teens and low 20's, starting salaries are now in the 50's and 60's. Add to that sign-on bonuses of $20k or more, and retention bonuses each year of around the same in many cases - it's hard to beat. And don't forget earning potential. Regional captains top out in the low 100's, which is about the same as many non-management white collar jobs, but you're working nowhere near as hard. At the majors (American, Delta, United) salaries top out in the 300's and even 400's.

[gracy]

(11-06-2014 05:05 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

First off I want to say this forum has been incredibly helpful to me. There's a great group of men on here that provide insightful, interesting and useful information and I am eternally grateful. Its a place where men can be men and no one bitches at us for it. I always felt the shame society placed on me for acting like a man and now I couldn't give two shits. The red pill was surprisingly easy to swallow and every day I see things in a different light and I'm better off for it.

With that said, I would like to contribute back in the best way possible. So, I wrote a datasheet on how to become an airline pilot. This is for training in America. Foreigners can train here, but have to jump through the usual visa and department of homeland security hoops. I do not know any useful information on this process.

About me: I am an airline pilot in my late 20's. I started flying when I was 16, have a four-year degree and started flying commercially at age 22. I am here to explain how to become a professional pilot in the most cost-effective and efficient way possible. I have broken this article down into several subsections.



Understanding the Commercial Industry:

You have three major airlines: Delta, United and American. You have two major cargo carriers: UPS and Fedex. These are generally considered the top careers in aviation.

You have multiple low cost/medium size airlines: Southwest, Jetblue, Frontier, Spirit, Alaska etc. They tend to pay well but the salary caps are not as high as the majors.

You have multiple regional carriers. As a passenger, you'd most likely never know you were on one. They fly for the majors in their paint schemes. Examples are Endeavor, Horizon, ExpressJet and Skywest. The majors pay the regionals a set rate to fly specific routes. Most of these companies have no real assets and essentially provide leased aircraft and skilled labor. The vast majority of pilots will fly at a regional carrier before a major.

Salary and Benefits:

Salaries (Annual):

First year regional first officer: 18-22k Yes, you read that correctly.
Third year regional first officer: 30-40k
Fifth year regional captain: 65-85k

First year major first officer: 45-65k
Third year major first officer: 100-140k
Fifth year regional first officer: 120-150k
Tenth year regional captain: 160-200k
Twentieth year regional captain: 200-250k

DISCLAIMER: There is no guarantee your career will progress in this fashion. Many people find themselves stuck as a regional first officer for over 10 years making under 50k. Many people never make it to a major.

Medical and Dental: Generally speaking, these are the same benefits provided to a white-collar professional.

Flight Benefits: All pilots, both at a regional and commercial level, receive flight benefits on the airline they fly for. For example, as a Delta pilot you receive Delta flight benefits. As a regional pilot flying for both Delta and American, you receive benefits on both airlines but at a lower boarding priority than those who are actual Delta or American employees. Generally speaking, this travel is free. It is standby and you only get a seat if one is open. Employees are ranked based on date of hire. This also allows for first class travel on a space-available basis. This is called non-revenue travel (non-revving).

All US carriers have an agreement to allow each other to jumpseat. For example, a Delta pilot can request the jumpseat on an American jet. Or even a UPS jet. There are one or more extra seats in the cockpit that only pilots may ride in. If there are seats available in the cabin, you will be expected to take one of those. This is a free benefit.

Lastly, you can buy standby tickets on most airlines around the world for about 10% of the ticket price. You will be the last to board and you do not pay if you do not ride.

To put this in perspective, I flew my own airline to Bangkok in first class round trip. I had to pay taxes, a rountrip cost of around $45. I then bought a standby ticket on Thai Airways from Bangkok to Chiang Mai for around $30. The public price from Thai Airways website was around $70.

Training and Education:

Medical Requirements: You must have vision correctable to 20/20, good color vision and no significant health problems. Some health problems can be waived. You must qualify every year and every 6 months if over 40. Here is more information: FAA Medical Requirements

College:
Most employers require you to have a bacheror's degree. The major is of minor importance, however having a science based degree, such as engineering, mathematics etc, will help. A good GPA will certainly help but a weak one will not kill you.

There are aviation degrees, such as Aeronautical Science or Aviation Science, and IMO are generally worthless. The classes are fun and interesting but are redundant when you consider the flight training you will complete. I highly suggest majoring in another field as this will give you options should you fail your medical or decide flying isn't for you. Let me say that again: MAJOR IN SOMETHING OTHER THAN FLYING PLANES. With that said, aviation colleges such as Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Purdue or University of North Dakota are excellent colleges with other options available.

Flight Training: You will be required to obtain a series of licenses before you can be employed as a professional pilot.
Private Pilot: This is the first step. You will learn to fly, fly solo, navigate air space and land safely in the event of an emergency. This takes most people around 60 hours of flight training and costs around $8,000-12,000.
Instrument Rating: This lets you fly in the clouds where you cannot see outside. 40 hours of flight training, $6,000-8,000.
Commercial Pilots License: Self-explanatory. Now you can fly and get paid for it. 40 hours, $6,000-10,000. Requires 250 hours total flight time, which you can log by buying or renting an aircraft. Total cost up to this point around 30k.
Multi-Engine License: This allows you to fly planes with more than one engine. Generally required for commercial aircraft. $6,000-8,000.

Now you need to pay your dues and build flight time. With these licenses you can get paid to do so, but you won't get paid much. To fly for a regional you need to accrue 1,500 flight hours. If you graduated from an accredited flying school, this requirement can be reduced by several hundred hours.

Paying Your Dues:

Flight Instruction: This is the most common route. You can train for the CFI (Certified Flight Instructor) certificate, which will allow you to teach students how to fly. This will cost around $6,000... and adding instrument instructor and multi-engine instructor will cost around $4,000 each. Expect to make anywhere between 15 and 50 dollars an hour depending on your location, but most will make around 20-25. This is a highly-stressful job as teaching people in an airplane is not easy work. Not only are you expected to teach effectively, as these students are often paying over $200/hr, you are expected to ensure the safety of the flight. You can expect to be drenched in sweat after many of these flights.
Part 135: This is generally the best route. You will fly small puddle jumpers around as charter pilots. You'll probably make less than instructors, but you won't have to pay for an instructor's license. Can be a blast... by far the most fun I've had in my career.
Other Commercial Flying Flying skydivers, towing banners, crop dusters or pipeline patrol. Pays shit and you'll work hard.

International Airlines: The Middle East and China are thirsty for western pilots. Emirates, Qatar Airways and multiple domestic Chinese airlines will pay 150-250k (tax-free) for your skills. You'll have to live there. The Middle Eastern airlines run a first class operation but the gigs in China can be shady.

Military: This is the best route. Try out for ROTC or apply directly. They'll pay for your training and you'll owe 10 years. When you get out you'll be competitive, but not as competitive in as in the past. Airlines tend to prefer civilian pilots from the regionals. Military cargo and refueling pilots are preferred over the fighter guys... as the former have experience operating as a crew.

Employment Outlook: Now is a better time than ever to become a commercial pilot. Commercial Pilot certification is at an all-time low. Of 11,700 pilots at Delta Airlines, 8,600 are set to retire by 2030. If you are hired now at a Major Airline you will be in command of a 300+ passenger, international jet, earning a salary of around 200k in 15 years time. All the other airlines are looking at similar attrition. The regionals can't fill their seats and are offering significant signing bonuses.

Well that's about it. Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer em!

I am just interested in pilot training. Your post has given me an awesome knowledge of to get started as a commercial pilot. Thanks

[puckerman]

I know a guy who was in his 50's and owned his own plane doing aerial photography. He loved his job. People pay a lot of money for aerial photographs. He also got lots of pussy--much of it younger.

[Sebastian]

I don't know why no one asks about fun stories with flight attendants...ha

It is true that looks don't matter to work as flight attendants in states.

But some other countries especially asian ones, you have to be basically Pretty to work there.


I heard about a guy working for budget airlines as a pilot. This lady thought he makes a lot of money since he was a 'pilot', slept with him, found out he was not that rich and wanted to accuse him of raping her.

[zatara]

(12-23-2017 07:56 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

I know a guy who was in his 50's and owned his own plane doing aerial photography. He loved his job. People pay a lot of money for aerial photographs. He also got lots of pussy--much of it younger.

Aerial photography is probably going to do about as well as being a travel agent in the next decade. High quality drones are heating airplane/helicopter photography and video alive at the moment.

[d3traktion]

For current pilots, how difficult is it to maintain relationships as well as the pilot career? I assume you miss a ton of holidays and important milestones in a child's life (if you have kids).

Also, pilots are just reading books while they are cruising? is this for real? you can just read in the cockpit?

I'm almost 30 and strongly considering a change in career, hell, with the whole job outlook looking great over the next fifteen years, becoming a pilot is a something i've gotta think about. I also noticed flight schools like ATP do offer a first lesson/first flight thing for around 150$ here in California (gotta look into it more, but assume you go up and decide if flying is something that even interests you), maybe thats the first step for those that are on the cusp.

[torridon747]

Is there any way to get your training paid for by one of these companies?

[General Stalin]

Looks like one of RIslander's first posts. Cool!

Not sure how much the commercial airline pilot landscape has changed over the past 4 years (if at all) - but this career sounds like awful ROI. $60k and tons of unpaid time investment to get into it, and then you are making practically minimum wage for years before you can make anything respectable. Sounds like most guys don't even hit the 6-figure mark for at least a decade+ after they are done all their training. Not too mention all the negative bits about the industry as a whole. No thanks. Seems like there are better ways to see the world and make a nice wage with a flexible schedule.

[d3traktion]

(07-19-2018 11:03 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Looks like one of RIslander's first posts. Cool!

Not sure how much the commercial airline pilot landscape has changed over the past 4 years (if at all) - but this career sounds like awful ROI. $60k and tons of unpaid time investment to get into it, and then you are making practically minimum wage for years before you can make anything respectable. Sounds like most guys don't even hit the 6-figure mark for at least a decade+ after they are done all their training. Not too mention all the negative bits about the industry as a whole. No thanks. Seems like there are better ways to see the world and make a nice wage with a flexible schedule.

I think this has changed a lot over the past four years. One of the schools I was looking in (ATP) is around 80k for the 9month training course (this includes CFI for a year and half getting paid 40k and you can check off your flying hours while you do this, so you're not paying separately for your hours). It seems as though most people when they sign with their first regional airline are making 50-60k starting out now. Perhaps I am wrong but there is going to be a pilot shortage in ten years and now is a good time to get in (from what most of what I have read).

Maybe a current pilot or someone in a program can clear this up?