[Ice]

Hi, I have a question and would like to have your opinion on it.

The question is about escalating on dates, and the resistance and "games" it can provoke.

Some background:

It's very easy for me to escalate on dates - I'm basically on autopilot. I normally do 3-4 venue changes with the following structure:

- Meetup at bar: being funny, very light touching
- Second bar: bolder touching. At this point at the latest she knows what's up. If she doesn't resist, I know I can go forward easily.
- Third bar, often with a small dance floor: making out
- Fourth bar, often with a small dance floor: harder make-out, dancing, grabbing ass etc.

The thing is, not that many girls are ready to go home with a guy on a first date. Especially not the younger ones. So that means that the first date often ends at making out. Here is where it can become tricky.

I have noticed that girls after the first date often try to "deescalate". That, for example, can mean taking longer to text back, taking longer to set up a time for a second date, or acting colder and "harder to get" on the second date. Or just generally playing "games".

I think it's pretty obvious why they do it. On the first date, I am often very smooth and dominant and escalate quickly and easily. Maybe it seems a bit "too smooth" for some and they think that I'm a player. Or they don't want to seem too easy, because after the first date they realize that maybe it all went a bit too quickly and smoothly. Probably they can tell that I have done this a couple of times before. I guess they want me to invest more before the next obvious step - i.e. having sex - so that they don't feel too easy and not like "just another notch".

Do you guys have similar experiences? How do you handle this?

I know there is a school of thought that says not to kiss girls at bars / venues, and instead try to get the girl home and then escalate there all the way until having sex. It's generally not a bad idea - I have never tried it myself though. I just see two problems with it: If neither I nor her live in a central area, it's kinda hard to find an excuse for getting back to the apt on the first date. Also, I can imagine it can come across as unnatural and incongruent not to escalate while at a bar / venue. If I'm into the girl, I will naturally escalate, so I would have to make an effort not to. And also, if I cannot get her back to the apt for whatever reason, and I didn't escalate during the date, I will come across as timid, hesitant, and unassertive, even though I'm not.

What are your experiences with this scenario?

[Saweeep]

This topic has been done to death to be honest.

Always escalate.

Always fix up logistics.

[Isaac Jordan]

(11-05-2014 11:31 AM)Ice Wrote:  

The thing is, not that many girls are ready to go home with a guy on a first date. Especially not the younger ones. So that means that the first date often ends at making out.

...

I know there is a school of thought that says not to kiss girls at bars / venues, and instead try to get the girl home and then escalate there all the way until having sex. It's generally not a bad idea - I have never tried it myself though.

You're quoting Tuth's First Date Bang Recipe, and you really ought to give it a shot.

Quote:

I just see two problems with it: If neither I nor her live in a central area, it's kinda hard to find an excuse for getting back to the apt on the first date.

You can't fight the power of logistics. Here are some suggestions, in order of effectiveness:

1) Move to a better location.
2) Go on dates near your apartment (for example, take her for a walk in a park and bring a flask of booze with you).
3) Target girls who live near your venues and use the "I need to use the bathroom" trick to get in once you walk them home.

Quote:

Also, I can imagine it can come across as unnatural and incongruent not to escalate while at a bar / venue.

Your escalation (making out, ass grabbing, heavy petting while dancing) sounds like it's too much for the girls. You're setting off their anti-slut defenses, and that's why you get pushback on future dates. Most girls won't be too keen on going home with you when you've made it clear you're expecting sex. Tone it down to where they're expecting only to kiss and compliance is likely to be much higher.

You don't need much to establish intent-a light touch on the arm or leg, holding hands/arm in arm while walking, strong eye contact. You can be flirty and bold without acting like a sex-crazed player.

[michelin]

Should be moved to Newbies section

[Ice]

(11-05-2014 12:33 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 11:31 AM)Ice Wrote:  

The thing is, not that many girls are ready to go home with a guy on a first date. Especially not the younger ones. So that means that the first date often ends at making out.

...

I know there is a school of thought that says not to kiss girls at bars / venues, and instead try to get the girl home and then escalate there all the way until having sex. It's generally not a bad idea - I have never tried it myself though.

You're quoting Tuth's First Date Bang Recipe, and you really ought to give it a shot.

Quote:

I just see two problems with it: If neither I nor her live in a central area, it's kinda hard to find an excuse for getting back to the apt on the first date.

You can't fight the power of logistics. Here are some suggestions, in order of effectiveness:

1) Move to a better location.
2) Go on dates near your apartment (for example, take her for a walk in a park and bring a flask of booze with you).
3) Target girls who live near your venues and use the "I need to use the bathroom" trick to get in once you walk them home.

Quote:

Also, I can imagine it can come across as unnatural and incongruent not to escalate while at a bar / venue.

Your escalation (making out, ass grabbing, heavy petting while dancing) sounds like it's too much for the girls. You're setting off their anti-slut defenses, and that's why you get pushback on future dates. Most girls won't be too keen on going home with you when you've made it clear you're expecting sex. Tone it down to where they're expecting only to kiss and compliance is likely to be much higher.

You don't need much to establish intent-a light touch on the arm or leg, holding hands/arm in arm while walking, strong eye contact. You can be flirty and bold without acting like a sex-crazed player.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense - thanks.

I think it's really fun to escalate quickly on dates - sometimes it works well - but I think you're right that overall it's probably counterproductive. It's probably smarter to tone it down. But I often find that girls actually do enjoy a quick escalation - I don't get much pushback while on a first date.

[kaotic]

(11-05-2014 11:31 AM)Ice Wrote:  

It's very easy for me to escalate on dates - I'm basically on autopilot. I normally do 3-4 venue changes with the following structure:

- Meetup at bar: being funny, very light touching
- Second bar: bolder touching. At this point at the latest she knows what's up. If she doesn't resist, I know I can go forward easily.
- Third bar, often with a small dance floor: making out
- Fourth bar, often with a small dance floor: harder make-out, dancing, grabbing ass etc.

-Why so many venues ? I do at most 2 or 3.
Sometimes I'll even makeout after the first venue, then bounce us back to my pad and bang.

Quote:

The thing is, not that many girls are ready to go home with a guy on a first date. Especially not the younger ones. So that means that the first date often ends at making out. Here is where it can become tricky.

What kind of girls are you going for ?

Believe it or not - plenty of girls will go home with a guy on the first day, especially younger ones. IF you game them right, have high SMV, and frame it right.

-How old are you ?
-How old are these girls ?
-What type of area do you live in ?

Quote:

I have noticed that girls after the first date often try to "deescalate". That, for example, can mean taking longer to text back, taking longer to set up a time for a second date, or acting colder and "harder to get" on the second date. Or just generally playing "games".

Descalating is a shit test from them to see if you'll still try and won't back down.
Believe it or not sometimes a girl wants to bang you on the first date (if you play you cards right of course) and if you don't make strong moves (don't fuck up game) then you blow it and they lose interest.

Quote:

I think it's pretty obvious why they do it. On the first date, I am often very smooth and dominant and escalate quickly and easily. Maybe it seems a bit "too smooth" for some and they think that I'm a player. Or they don't want to seem too easy, because after the first date they realize that maybe it all went a bit too quickly and smoothly. Probably they can tell that I have done this a couple of times before. I guess they want me to invest a bit more before the next obvious step - i.e. having sex - so that they don't feel too easy and not like "just another notch".

-How are you being dominant ?
-What's your definition of smooth ?

I had girl last night tell me "she's trying something different" and wants to have guys wait to have sex with her - 2 bars, dropping red pill knowledge on her, and 2 hours later she was swallowing my future children after I banged her twice.

Do you guys have similar experiences? How do you handle this?

Quote:

I know there is a school of thought that says not to kiss girls at bars / venues, and instead try to get the girl home and then escalate there all the way until having sex. It's generally not a bad idea - I have never tried it myself though.

Why not try and find out ? Both schools of thoughts have worked for me.

Quote:

I just see two problems with it: If neither I nor her live in a central area, it's kinda hard to find an excuse for getting back to the apt on the first date. Also, I can imagine it can come across as unnatural and incongruent not to escalate while at a bar / venue.

-I live in a suburb, logistics can be a nightmare but I make it happen.
-There are plenty of ways to probe for IOI's showing she'd like to come over.
-I've had girls drive 45-60mins to come see me, 75% of the time they come to me, 25% of the time they meet me near my work, I rarely go to her.

-Personal excuses to bounce back to my pad:
"I make this bad ass drink" "
"Top 5 movies, go !">"Oh I love that movie" "That's bad ass, you know what, fuck all this, let's go watch it at my pad and drink."
"I wanna show you something real long black and hard (my ar-15 I built)"

-General excuses:
You play the guitar. (girls love music)
You make a great cocktail or have this rad bottle of wine.
You want to cook dinner (personal and sometimes sexual experience)
You want to show her your photos/artwork/etc.
You want her to meet at your pad so you take one car (less chance of DUI)

Always push and escalate as much as you can, I use my Blitzkrieg method (NOTE: This is after seeing IOI's, kino, sexualized conversations, etc) I can usually tell if a girl would be down for it or not, a girl will be more forgiving to a man who escalates and she shoots him down, than a guy who doesn't make a move:

Kissing instantly turns into neck biting and hair pulling which turns into groping all in a matter of seconds. Her emotions/chemicals will firing like crazy - more than likely she hasn't experienced this before or in a long time.

LMR and her descalating doesn't phase me one bit, I adjust my game/frame, and carry on as usual.

There are plenty of threads on here of how to follow up with a girls, how to bounce back to your pad, how to deal with shit tests (deescalation), not to mention the ever so famous "first date bang recipe" thread.

[Ice]

(11-05-2014 12:53 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Quote:

The thing is, not that many girls are ready to go home with a guy on a first date. Especially not the younger ones. So that means that the first date often ends at making out. Here is where it can become tricky.

What kind of girls are you going for ?

Believe it or not - plenty of girls will go home with a guy on the first day, especially younger ones. IF you game them right, have high SMV, and frame it right.

Believe it or not sometimes a girl wants to bang you on the first date (if you play you cards right of course) and if you don't make strong moves (don't fuck up game) then you blow it and they lose interest.

-How old are you ?
-How old are these girls ?
-What type of area do you live in ?

Yes sure, sometimes girls are willing to go home on a first date - I'm just talking about the other cases.

The girls' ages can be anything from 21 to 34.

I live in New York.

(11-05-2014 12:53 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Quote:

I have noticed that girls after the first date often try to "deescalate". That, for example, can mean taking longer to text back, taking longer to set up a time for a second date, or acting colder and "harder to get" on the second date. Or just generally playing "games".

Descalating is a shit test from them to see if you'll still try and won't back down.

Quote:

I think it's pretty obvious why they do it. On the first date, I am often very smooth and dominant and escalate quickly and easily. Maybe it seems a bit "too smooth" for some and they think that I'm a player. Or they don't want to seem too easy, because after the first date they realize that maybe it all went a bit too quickly and smoothly. Probably they can tell that I have done this a couple of times before. I guess they want me to invest a bit more before the next obvious step - i.e. having sex - so that they don't feel too easy and not like "just another notch".

-How are you being dominant ?
-What's your definition of smooth ?

It's just very easy for me to lead the interaction. I generally have a rather dominant personality and also verbally I'm pretty good at leading conversations etc.

[Catch 22]

This varies a lot by location, too. I found I moved too quick for a lot of women in DC. Second date most often was notch day for me in DC. Now in Tampa, I'm moving way too slow. Had one lay where about an hour into meeting her and her friend, I'm dancing with her and her friend starts dancing with this other guy. About 30 mins later, she and I have only made out and her friend and the guy leave and go to one of their cars. I put two and two together and pull out the brilliant line, "We should go do that, too." SNL in the car. 23 years old, I think, so pretty young.

You need to kill this thought ASAP, though. Not true; it's only in your head.
"The thing is, not that many girls are ready to go home with a guy on a first date. Especially not the younger ones. So that means that the first date often ends at making out."

[Ice]

(11-05-2014 01:22 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

This varies a lot by location, too. I found I moved too quick for a lot of women in DC. Second date most often was notch day for me in DC. Now in Tampa, I'm moving way too slow. Had one lay where about an hour into meeting her and her friend, I'm dancing with her and her friend starts dancing with this other guy. About 30 mins later, she and I have only made out and her friend and the guy leave and go to one of their cars. I put two and two together and pull out the brilliant line, "We should go do that, too." SNL in the car. 23 years old, I think, so pretty young.

You need to kill this thought ASAP, though. Not true; it's only in your head.
"The thing is, not that many girls are ready to go home with a guy on a first date. Especially not the younger ones. So that means that the first date often ends at making out."

Yeah you're right, it really depends on the girl. But in my experience it's either SNL or then if you go the date route then it's second or third date, rarely first. I had this experience in all of Germany, Switzerland, and the US.

But I think I will need to try Tuth's First Date Bang Recipe.