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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-04-2014, 05:54 PM
Saw an article on Lyle McDonald's BodyRecomposition.com site that cited a journal article where they documented that the MAXIMUM possible FFMI (Fat-Free Mass Index) for a male, without using steroids, was about 25 for a low bodyfat percentage (sub-10, perhaps 6-8).
FFMI is calculated by taking your weight in kg, subtracting fat weight in kg, and then dividing by your height in meters squared.
For a 200lbs, with 10% BF, 6' that would be:
(90-9)/(1.83^2) = 24.4
What do you the resident experts (MikeCF??) say on this?
I personally derive some comfort from the idea there's a natural limit you can strive for and, once you've reached it, you can be pretty sure any marginal effort for hypertrophy will be generate very little gain.
My current FFMI is above 25, but my BF% is quite high.
Given my height of 5'10'', my "ideal" weight sans roids would be at 187lbs at a BF% of 7%. My MAX Fat-Free Mass is 174lbs. That's useful to know.
Right now I'm taking it pretty easy. Am supposed to be recomping but I havent got the science down so far.
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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-04-2014, 06:05 PM
I've heard slightly less than this, but I suppose that was also based upon a natural bodybuilder being stage ready. At 6 foot, 183 lbs of lean mass is the most a genetically gifted individual could be, but there are not that many gifts out there that can reach this potential. Steroids even out the playing field in the end, but still, those outliers will always win shows.
Not too many of us want to step on stage, and in all honesty I think most men look better at around 7-9% than being really dry, I'll definitely settle for 200 lbs at 10%.
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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-05-2014, 09:07 AM
Yeah, Zane is usually the comparison I go buy. But he's chemically enhanced. He's probably packing 10-12lbs more muscle than he could without the steroids, since a max FFMI of 25 implies a lean weight of 169lbs. With a BF% of 5% @ 190, he's got 12lbs more muscle than what could be reasonably expected.
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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-05-2014, 09:18 AM
^ The above poster mentioned that he was chemically enhanced. I think that was his point.
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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-05-2014, 11:34 AM
I could've wasted half a sentence saying "as rhodey" mentioned, but I decided to give you boys the benefit of the doubt for being able to deduce that for yourselves.
In addition, rhodey's wrote two contradicting things:
"I find that body fat is often overestimated."
"Again most of us are fatter than we'd like to think."
So I guess he was just really tired when he wrote it
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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-05-2014, 12:19 PM
No formula is going to give you that, unless the input to the formula is "your entire genome".
I have a mate who looks like a tank, same height, and does very little to cultivate that body.
Meanwhile I look like a mantis.
The only way to know would be to go all-out with gym+sleep+diet, plot your lean mass on a chart, and see at what level it starts to asymptote out.
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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-05-2014, 12:23 PM
It was obvious when reading his post that he actually meant "underestimated".
If only you knew how bad things really are.
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Maximum Possible Lean-Muscle w/o Steroid Use
11-08-2014, 10:40 AM
thanks for that, Deluge.
I did a few calculations, and the orginal formula and the one you shared actually give very close results. Did you try it for yourself?
I'm 5'10'' and get a FFM max of 174lbs rather consistenty (for a low bf%), even accounting for the frame. Because the inputs are squared (except height), there's a diminishing return to bone size (heh).
For a higher BF% it's 0.4% for each additional percentage point BF.
so there's a high degree of correlation. In any case, this is enlightening for me - goal is now to recomp until I hit the "goal" weight.
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