[Olympus Squared]

Hey guys, I'm writing this to share my experiences and hopefully provide a little motivation for others who may question why being successfully single (i.e. having women in your life with out being in a relationship with them) is the optimal place to be, especiall when you're younger.

A bit about me, I'm 25, a few years out of college and couple months out of a 3+ year relationship... Before this relationship I did well with girls, with the exception of my freshman and sophmore years in college... Not sure what happend, I went through a very shy and introspective phase, and the reckless abandon attitude that helped get laid when I was younger dissipated.

The only girls I hooked up with were ones who initiated the sexual encounter (this happend twice) or girls I met in class and got to know slowly over time.

In my Junior year of college, I transfered from a big urban (and lame commuter) university to a smaller liberal arts school, and within a couple months I worked at the best bar in this college town and had some awesome lays before settling down with the aforementioned girl...

SO, what I can share about my experience is that:

1) Relationships will in some ways hold you back from attaining your goals in life, whatever they may be. Relationships make you too comfortable and therefore inhibit you from pushing yourself to the fullest.

2) Relationships cost money and time that could be spent in ways that will benefit you in the long run, as opposed to simply appeasing your gf.

3) If you are faithful to your gf, you will more likely have to give up sexual experiences with attractive women, as I did, and now kick myself for...

4) Relationships limit your degrees of freedom, socially, professionally, geographically, etc.

5) Being in a relationship for a long period hurts your game with new girls and leaves you with emotions that inhibit new experiences with women.

6) Finally, and most importantly, relationships that begin when your in you early 20's will not likely last. And if they do, it is my experience that they don't work particularly well for both parties. Lots of change happens between say 23 and 33, not to mention 33 to 43. The girl you fall for may become a completely different person in due time, and the last thing you want to be is the guy who works his ass off to support a chick, loosing all you game and looks in the process, while your wife goes off and gets banged by more interesting men.

Anyhow, just the thoughts of a guy seeing a lot of his buddies get married, while I become single again and more primal...

[Screwston]

Good info man. You're going against the grain when u decide to live a playa lifestyle like everyone here. I refuse to put my heart in the hands of a girl

[CJ]

I went through almost the exact same things as you described, except for transferring schools, and I was never shy in college. Still same basic outline.

I disagree with you though. I think you should definitely date in your teens and 20s. I wish I hadn't for so long through the end of college, but I learned a lot about myself and what I wanted and did not want from a woman in my lengthy (year+) relationships.

Addressing each of your points/concerns:

1) Achieving Goals - A determined person is still going to push through any difficulties in their relationship and achieve their goals.

2) Cost - Your earning potential when you're young is generally much lower than when you're out of college. So, the money really shouldn't be an issue at that age.

3) Missing out on sex - You can make up for this later. The nice thing about pretty girls is there's an endless supply of them.

4) Freedom - This one I agree with. Even if you're in control there's always going to be compromises about your freedom.

5) Emotional Damage - While relationships certainly cause your game to digress (unless you stray), it only needs the right spark to be rekindled. As for severe emotional baggage, that sounds like more of a chick thing to me.

6) Not Enduring - Of course most people are not the same person when they're 30 as they were when they're 21. You shouldn't be. The idea is you "grow" together. If you grow apart then you just have to be mature enough to move on. Most men don't tend to get less interesting or lose their looks with age, if you do it's your own fault for not keeping up in the gym and with your diet.


Bottom line is, game isn't for everyone anyway. In fact most people actually want to settle down and raise a family someday, so I no longer judge them for that. Myself, I prefer this lifestyle, but I'm only certain of this because I reached this decision through past experiences.

Regardless, you shouldn't go through life regretting your previous relationships. You obviously learned something from them, and should draw upon that as to why you're a better person today. Unfortunately, you seem to still have the "I'd take it all back if I could" attitude. Speaking from experience, losing that mentality is extremely liberating.

[oldnemesis]

(03-30-2011 11:29 PM)Olympus Squared Wrote:  

A bit about me, I'm 25, a few years out of college and couple months out of a 3+ year relationship...

Assuming that "a few" means "less than two", I'd say you got a problem right here.
Relationship is a tool. Like a hammer, or a knife. As with any tool, you can greatly benefit from it if you're using it properly. And you can do damage to yourself or others if you are not. Just to counter those points of you:

Quote:

1) Relationships will in some ways hold you back from attaining your goals in life, whatever they may be. Relationships make you too comfortable and therefore inhibit you from pushing yourself to the fullest.

Long-term relationship provides a good platform for the prosperity; it is a well-known knowledge that married couples money-wise typically do better than singles. This is mostly due to specialization of labor and utilizing the benefits.

Quote:

2) Relationships cost money and time that could be spent in ways that will benefit you in the long run, as opposed to simply appeasing your gf.

If you're in a monogamous relationship, you are not wasting your time and money on pursuits, approaches, dates, which gives you more time to work on your goals. Spending time on "appeasing your gf" is a waste anyway. Even if you're not into monogamous relationship, you waste significantly less time and money, because a "fucking a new girl this week" task is not a high priority one. As a result, you may only pick up low-hanging fruits, and instead of running a net through the sea of women you'd work on a strategy which would maximize the number of low-hanging fruits available for you.

Quote:

3) If you are faithful to your gf, you will more likely have to give up sexual experiences with attractive women, as I did, and now kick myself for...

You don't have to be monogamous if you don't want to. It is not a requirement of a relationship.

Quote:

4) Relationships limit your degrees of freedom, socially, professionally, geographically, etc.

It depends on your partner. As I said multiple times, choose carefully. If you like to travel, having a relationship with someone who's afraid to leave her town makes little sense. If you relocate to a different country, however, being in a relationship makes the relocation significantly less stressful.

Quote:

5) Being in a relationship for a long period hurts your game with new girls and leaves you with emotions that inhibit new experiences with women.

I don't think so. It is more like your values change when you grow up.

Quote:

6) Finally, and most importantly, relationships that begin when your in you early 20's will not likely last.

I agree with that, but my reasons are different. People in early 20s are generally too immature to be able to choose a relationship partner wisely. For example, they tend to be concentrated on appearance, which has a very limited value in a long term relationship. Peer pressure also plays major factor there, and in vast majority of cases it is a negative factor.

[flashbang]

I often wonder what kind of person I'd be now if I'd ever been in a relationship for longer than 1 month

One important thing to mention here is "hunger". Being in a relationship satisfies the emotional needs to an extent and kills the drive to push yourself out of the comfort zone and improve youself. Same shit happens with women getting fat because the pressure is no longer on.

I'm 25 as well. It's a very young age and a beautiful time to be alive! Thanks for an original and eye-opening thread!

[Olympus Squared]

Thanks for the interesting responses. I should have clarified a bit. Relationships are not bad for you IF you know how to handle them in the most mature of ways. To do so requires a lot of confidence, which on some level is correlated with your ability to attract and interact with women. Unfortunately most guys I know that are younger and in LTR's are just not there...

Quick example. I'm into outdoor sports, whitewater kayaking, climbing, snowboarding, etc. Early on I took my ex on a couple of very beginner level trips (climbing and kayaking) and on both occasions she completly freaked out, shut down, and embarassed me infront of friends. I 'should' have taken that a terrible omen and left, but I didn't.

Why? I enjoyed the emotional support and connection we had. Sure, it helped me concentrate on my academic research, and later on, my career. But at what cost?

Bottom line is, I don't think relationships are bad by neccessity, I just think most guys, myself included, are not at the point in there lives at this age to handle them in a way that does not require sacrifices. Sacrifices that, in the long run, do more harm than good. Just my opinion.

[D. Goodnuts]

"I agree with that, but my reasons are different. People in early 20s are generally too immature to be able to choose a relationship partner wisely. For example, they tend to be concentrated on appearance, which has a very limited value in a long term relationship."

You summed up the most important thing I've learned so far regarding relationships.

The challenge is to ensure that you can recover from those immature decisions. I married at 23. I'm 32 now and I'm kicking major ass in many areas of my life. I'm still however paying for some of those decisions from my 20's. $$$ helps to make life a bit more tolerable when you're still paying for past decisions.

[Gmac]

(03-31-2011 10:40 PM)Olympus Squared Wrote:  

Thanks for the interesting responses. I should have clarified a bit. Relationships are not bad for you IF you know how to handle them in the most mature of ways. To do so requires a lot of confidence, which on some level is correlated with your ability to attract and interact with women. Unfortunately most guys I know that are younger and in LTR's are just not there...

Quick example. I'm into outdoor sports, whitewater kayaking, climbing, snowboarding, etc. Early on I took my ex on a couple of very beginner level trips (climbing and kayaking) and on both occasions she completly freaked out, shut down, and embarassed me infront of friends. I 'should' have taken that a terrible omen and left, but I didn't.

Why? I enjoyed the emotional support and connection we had. Sure, it helped me concentrate on my academic research, and later on, my career. But at what cost?

Bottom line is, I don't think relationships are bad by neccessity, I just think most guys, myself included, are not at the point in there lives at this age to handle them in a way that does not require sacrifices. Sacrifices that, in the long run, do more harm than good. Just my opinion.

I've managed to maintain my independence/distance in my current LTR, but I'm in my late 20s. I was pretty bad 5 years ago, so I agree with the topic but I'd change it to "younger 20s."

[Moma]

(03-31-2011 04:54 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

You don't have to be monogamous if you don't want to. It is not a requirement of a relationship.

First of all, I don't know where you live or the type of females you deal with but the whole idea of monogamous relationships is generally the concept of being with one woman.

Open relationships are not as easy as you claim to find. There are also psychological notions that come into play. MOST women are not comfortable, if they really care about that man, knowing that he is out there hammering a new lizard every other weekend.

If a man goes into an exclusive relationship, expecting that promiscuity can be easier negotiated, I'd love to see that.
It can definitely happen but those are rare occurrences.

That's like finding a woman who is comfortable with you banging her, her hot MILF, daughter (if of age of consent), sisters, female cousins, any female acquaintance or friend without any emotional ties to your physical infidelity.

I am sure some of the players here have done it (sheet, I heard of a guy who knocked up a mum and her daughter simultaneously) but on average, that's a tough cookie to find.

However, I could be wrong and I would encourage input from all the playas on the board. How many of you guys have a main squeeze on the sidelines who fully knows that you smash other things?
And if you do, how easy is it for you, upon finding a woman is worth keeping as the main (meaning no condoms are used on her) who is comfortable knowing that you swoop on weekends and in other countries gathering flags?

Banging a lot of women (which can be accomplished either through game *easiest to obtain*, status or money *both harder to acquire than game*) does a very important thing.

It devalues a component that doesn't matter to much in a relationship which is lionizing the pussy. A lot of guys feel a sweet snatch with maximum snap back and they start rationalising why they should be with the woman.

When a guy sees little value in pussy i.e. he knows that he can absolutely get pussy ANYTIME he wants from women he is totally attracted to, then a woman CANNOT use vagina as a bargaining chip.

With many women, the loss of the vagina as a bargaining tool leaves them helpless.

When this is the case, the woman is forced to have something else to bring to the table than just her tits and ass. Suddenly a man's visors are lowered and he can see what her worth really is.

I, however, it is good to have been in a few LTR's just to see what it's like to commit to one female for an extended duration of time.

Although, I have never married, just due to the fact that I have pounded women from different backgrounds in different countries AS WELL AS having been in a few LTR's with women of totally different backgrounds, enables me to gain an understanding of woman's psychology as a gender and also the influences on the female psychology based on her cultural background.

I have been able to diagnose marital situations and advise married men AND women as well as look rationally into why women and men stay together. A lot of people buy into this crap of blind love and think that it will carry them through all and beyond and if it fails, they say "Oh well, it didn't work out" or "I fell out of love with him"

I attribute this ability and understanding to having and continuing to pursue the art of game.

Game is psychology. Understanding psychology of women. In fact, by understanding the psychology of women, you can actually control and subdue a lot of men.

I've known guys growing up who had me written off as whatever, actually subdued when they saw the quality of women I would draw back to my lair.

This was with no material gains, no car, unwillingness to spend big money on dates i.e. buy her a drink etc etc.

A proper wifey cannot be guaranteed. Luck still plays a part. However, I like the quote that attributes luck to what's left after preparation. Having game is being prepared. Pursuing game is the art of preparation (which involves practical and understanding the theory) one is able to not only understand and thus marry their needs and wants together but also pick the right woman that will most likely sustain these needs/wants for the long run.

[oldnemesis]

(04-01-2011 10:20 AM)Moma Wrote:  

First of all, I don't know where you live or the type of females you deal with but the whole idea of monogamous relationships is generally the concept of being with one woman.

The way you said it becomes a very vague concept. Could a dude think about other women? Have them as a friend? Go out with them? Where do you draw the line, and why?

Even if you limit it to "having sex with only one woman", it also has some of variations. For example, is masturbation allowed? Using sex toys? Those technically are "having sex". What about a threesome with your girlfriend and another girl? Getting a lap dance in a strip club? I guess you'd accept at least some of those activities, while there are people around who accept none of them.

Quote:

Open relationships are not as easy as you claim to find.

I did not claim they are easy to find. I said they are possible to find, and my personal experience - and personal experience of some people I know - supports it. Note that most men, at least here in US, are definitely not looking for open relationships.

Quote:

There are also psychological notions that come into play. MOST women are not comfortable, if they really care about that man, knowing that he is out there hammering a new lizard every other weekend.

Indeed, if she stays at home and does nothing. However if she lived a wild party life before meeting that man, she may also be out hammering a new stud every other weekend.
Also she may be not comfortable with it, but still accept it as a matter of life - the guy she is attracted to is like that, she cannot change him, and she does not want to leave him because of other positive valuable qualities he has. As I have said several times, women are much more practical than a lot of men, and while she will try to get as much as she can, she often will accept significantly less that what she tried to get.

Quote:

That's like finding a woman who is comfortable with you banging her, her hot MILF, daughter (if of age of consent), sisters, female cousins, any female acquaintance or friend without any emotional ties to your physical infidelity.

Not really. For example, typically people in open relationship keep a low profile, and do not share this information with anyone who have no legitimate reason to know - which almost always includes friends, family, colleagues and employers.

Quote:

When a guy sees little value in pussy i.e. he knows that he can absolutely get pussy ANYTIME he wants from women he is totally attracted to, then a woman CANNOT use vagina as a bargaining chip.

Yes, she still can. What seem to happen at that moment is that the guy get attracted to a specific woman who is not affected by game. Now for him it is a challenge, and he falls for it - and for her. Again, see "The Game". This is part of psychology.