[oldnemesis]

(03-27-2011 04:02 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

So where do you suspect diminishing returns on game is? Judging from some of the older players around here, game gives returns well above the "basic game" level.

To me it is similar to sports. When you learn the basics, as long as you practice, you are receiving benefits. Those include better health, better body shape, larger social circle, and so on.

Now the logical route seems to go up, to professional sports. Imagine it, not only playing your favorite sport, but also getting paid for that. This is the point of diminishing return for the most people. The reason is that to get to that next level would require a lifestyle change, and only few people are willing to do so. Sport is not anymore something you play on Sat with your buddies and go for beer afterward. Now sport is more about practicing things you hate with the people you'd rather never see. And the higher you are, the more time you spent on it. At some moment you find out you're doing it 24/7 and there is no time for anything else. I remember someone recently wondered why some world champion hired an escort. This is exactly the reason. And most people bail out of it sooner or later.

Quote:

I have basic game and I'm not even a little satisfied with where I am right now. I know with better game I would be more women and hotter women.

Yes, you will. However you should be prepared that the quality/quantity of women will increase very slow comparing to the amount of effort you'd be putting into game. Don't expect the same linear scale as it was during learning basic game. Just make sure you are using game, do not let game use you - this seem to be a common problem among PUAs.

There are also other things to think about.

First is your long term goals. Are you sure getting more/hotter women is a reasonable long term goal, worth investing some major efforts? Are you sure you would still consider it important in, let's say, twenty years? This is important question - I remember this was important to me in twenties, but now I'm in mid-thirties and this is pretty close to the bottom on my value scale. It is more of "been there, seen that" now, and if I put any major effort into game, I'm sure I'd regret it now.

Second is that there are other ways to achieve the same results besides game. Making money comes as the most obvious, and most reliable. Traveling to developing countries is another one, also reliable. Learning foreign languages is a possible third way. Did you do the benefits-cost analysis to ensure you've chosen the strategy which benefits you the most?

[Invictus]

(03-27-2011 10:29 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

First is your long term goals. Are you sure getting more/hotter women is a reasonable long term goal, worth investing some major efforts? Are you sure you would still consider it important in, let's say, twenty years? This is important question - I remember this was important to me in twenties, but now I'm in mid-thirties and this is pretty close to the bottom on my value scale. It is more of "been there, seen that" now, and if I put any major effort into game, I'm sure I'd regret it now.

Second is that there are other ways to achieve the same results besides game. Making money comes as the most obvious, and most reliable. Traveling to developing countries is another one, also reliable. Learning foreign languages is a possible third way. Did you do the benefits-cost analysis to ensure you've chosen the strategy which benefits you the most?

Yes and yes.

And what strategies are you talking about?

Are you suggesting making a plan to learn game then following through with it?

For that you'd need a teacher - learning without a proper mentor is tough. I still haven't met anyone in real life with real good game who consistently gets the hot girls. How would you go about doing that? I don't know of anyone here in Denmark.

[Moma]

(03-27-2011 11:10 PM)Invictus Wrote:  

For that you'd need a teacher - learning without a proper mentor is tough. I still haven't met anyone in real life with real good game who consistently gets the hot girls. How would you go about doing that? I don't know of anyone here in Denmark.

What part of Denmark do you live in? Secondly, do you associate with non Danes or is it only Danes? Someone told me that Danes aren't very progressive when it comes to game. They beta their way in and out of fanny..

[oldnemesis]

(03-27-2011 11:10 PM)Invictus Wrote:  

And what strategies are you talking about?

It depends on what you realistically want to achieve. Everyone's goals in game are different; mine, for example, do not include "getting more/hotter women", so my strategy would clearly be different from yours, although we may share some practices.

Quote:

Are you suggesting making a plan to learn game then following through with it?
For that you'd need a teacher - learning without a proper mentor is tough.

Yes, making a plan and sticking to it is mandatory. Having a teacher would be perfect, but not necessary. It is not different from working out in gym or learning foreign language - easier with a tutor, but definitely possible without if you learn the theory (i.e. know what to do), and practice as necessary.

Quote:

I still haven't met anyone in real life with real good game who consistently gets the hot girls.

This is correct, and this is why it is important to make sure your goal is realistic. For example, if your goal is to be able to bring into your bed ANY woman you want, you will fail as this is not a possible goal. Another problem is that getting more women, or getting hotter women is not a specific goal, making it much harder to track your progress.

And of course there is a saturation problem - the hot women you'd like to get now would probably be just ordinary after you progress in your game. If you do not control yourself, you'll end up in the infinite loop spending more and more of your time to get hotter and hotter women - and still feeling unhappy about it because there are always even hotter women.

[Saladin]

Game really helped me find out about inner game and forced me to change my behaviors for the better. Working on my inner game has helped my self esteem and the way I feel about myself.

That is worth millions itself to me, I've become a better person because of it. I am far less negative than I used to be even though I do have bouts of negativity.

In a way, over obsession with game can be turned into obsession with self improvement and this can help a persons life in many ways. In fact I have started trying out mediation because of the good things I have heard about it. I'm considering signing up for comedy and yoga classes to help improve myself and my game. You can say game helps business because selling yourself is essential, and therefore it can help a self doubting person like me. Hell, learning about social conditioning helped me ace my last english assignment!

[Screwston]

I agree with torontokid. After finding this forum, I'm becoming an overall better person because of working on my game more than ever. Working out, taking care of my face (no homo), deciding to go back to college so I can see the world, socializing more, going to places I used to never hit up. I'm just in a better mood than I used to be.

[oldnemesis]

It looks to me like you guys are talking about learning game in general, while the thread is about over-obsession with the game. Those are different things.

[Invictus]

Well, I guess the ultimate goal is to be able to successfully game girls of Victoria's Secret attractiveness. I'm not talking about a relationship with one, but bedding girls that hot somewhat consistently would be the ultimate evolution of game. I don't see this happening for another few years, though.

The goal is not to be a "prisoner of circumstance". Forced to settle because of limits to game abilty.

How would you go about designing a "strategy" to learn game. I've read quite a few books and self-help material, and they all value in one way or another, but it's hap-hazard and not very organized.

I understand "game" as far as routines go only get you so far. To hold on to a real hottie you actually have to be genuinely AWESOME guy - a guy with real character.

[Moma]

(03-28-2011 05:32 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

Game really helped me find out about inner game and forced me to change my behaviors for the better. Working on my inner game has helped my self esteem and the way I feel about myself.

That is worth millions itself to me, I've become a better person because of it. I am far less negative than I used to be even though I do have bouts of negativity.

In a way, over obsession with game can be turned into obsession with self improvement and this can help a persons life in many ways. In fact I have started trying out mediation because of the good things I have heard about it. I'm considering signing up for comedy and yoga classes to help improve myself and my game. You can say game helps business because selling yourself is essential, and therefore it can help a self doubting person like me. Hell, learning about social conditioning helped me ace my last english assignment!

I agree with torontokid and I applaud his efforts.

[Moma]

(03-29-2011 09:56 AM)Invictus Wrote:  

Well, I guess the ultimate goal is to be able to successfully game girls of Victoria's Secret attractiveness. I'm not talking about a relationship with one, but bedding girls that hot somewhat consistently would be the ultimate evolution of game. I don't see this happening for another few years, though.

The goal is not to be a "prisoner of circumstance". Forced to settle because of limits to game abilty.

How would you go about designing a "strategy" to learn game. I've read quite a few books and self-help material, and they all value in one way or another, but it's hap-hazard and not very organized.

I understand "game" as far as routines go only get you so far. To hold on to a real hottie you actually have to be genuinely AWESOME guy - a guy with real character.

Look at the principles outlined by in Roosh's book, Bang.

For me this is how it works. Make the most of your natural look as possible.
That means, wear nice clothes. Work out and get a nice body (if possible). Bathe and apply deodrant. Brush your teeth.
Do everything possible that can increase your chances.
Then go and open, open, open.
It's still a numbers game but the little details mentioned can help you reduce the amount of approaches needed in order to close. Follow them.

In terms of the strategies, I think Roosh's Bang outlined them pretty well.

As you continue your work, you will become attuned to feel and know which lizards are vulnerable for your needs and wants. There are plenty of Victoria Secrets that you can splice.

Stop putting women on a pedestal. I've seen women as hot as can be, very humble due to the fact that they are poor and of lower status due to economic restriction.

It's all about supply and demand. These women would be nothing if not lionised by all the beta males.

The reality is, you won't get ALL of the women. However, with the right mindset, it's IMPOSSIBLE for you NOT to get SOME of the women.

[Gmac]

(03-29-2011 12:34 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(03-29-2011 09:56 AM)Invictus Wrote:  

Well, I guess the ultimate goal is to be able to successfully game girls of Victoria's Secret attractiveness. I'm not talking about a relationship with one, but bedding girls that hot somewhat consistently would be the ultimate evolution of game. I don't see this happening for another few years, though.

The goal is not to be a "prisoner of circumstance". Forced to settle because of limits to game abilty.

How would you go about designing a "strategy" to learn game. I've read quite a few books and self-help material, and they all value in one way or another, but it's hap-hazard and not very organized.

I understand "game" as far as routines go only get you so far. To hold on to a real hottie you actually have to be genuinely AWESOME guy - a guy with real character.

Look at the principles outlined by in Roosh's book, Bang.

For me this is how it works. Make the most of your natural look as possible.
That means, wear nice clothes. Work out and get a nice body (if possible). Bathe and apply deodrant. Brush your teeth.
Do everything possible that can increase your chances.
Then go and open, open, open.
It's still a numbers game but the little details mentioned can help you reduce the amount of approaches needed in order to close. Follow them.

In terms of the strategies, I think Roosh's Bang outlined them pretty well.

As you continue your work, you will become attuned to feel and know which lizards are vulnerable for your needs and wants. There are plenty of Victoria Secrets that you can splice.

Stop putting women on a pedestal. I've seen women as hot as can be, very humble due to the fact that they are poor and of lower status due to economic restriction.

It's all about supply and demand. These women would be nothing if not lionised by all the beta males.

The reality is, you won't get ALL of the women. However, with the right mindset, it's IMPOSSIBLE for you NOT to get SOME of the women.

What works for me is just not giving a fuck about consequences. It's easy to over analyze and get anxious when you obsess or over-think game. If it was really that complicated, you wouldn't see so many fuck ups pulling women regularly. That's not to say it's easy to master, but even a little game can go a long way.

[oldnemesis]

(03-29-2011 09:56 AM)Invictus Wrote:  

How would you go about designing a "strategy" to learn game. I've read quite a few books and self-help material, and they all value in one way or another, but it's hap-hazard and not very organized.

Well, there is definitely a lot of different ways, as well as a lot of different games. Day game is different from night game, night bar game is different from resort night game, gaming chicks in their 20s is different from gaming chicks in their 40s, gaming in Russia is different than gaming in US and so on. My conclusion is that the best way to learn is to either copy someone successful whose style and targets are similar to yours, or through trial and error.

Now how to design the strategy? After a few practice rounds you should know your weak points. Concentrate on them. Appearance issues? Join the gym, visit a stylist, get new clothes. Communication issues? Attend the communication courses, maybe see the therapist. Too much tense? Fly to Thailand for a week and fuck five girls every day. And so on.

Quote:

I understand "game" as far as routines go only get you so far. To hold on to a real hottie you actually have to be genuinely AWESOME guy - a guy with real character.

Well, there are several ways to do so:

- A lot of Eastern Europeans and Russians are begging girls which here in US would be considered "of Victoria's Secret attractiveness" - apparently with the little game, mostly through their social circles. So learn Russian/Romanian/Bulgarian, move there for a year, and make it happen.

- A lot of Westerners do the same in Philippines/Thailand, while spending very little money (by US standards).

- It is possible even here in US, but I guess you're looking for something around $500/hr and up. May be cheaper outside CA/NY though.

As you see, there are a lot of ways to achieve your goal as stated. This is probably not what you were looking for, but I brought it as examples of how I think. Meaning, I approach the target from different angles. This is why you need to be more specific with your goals, including the qualities you have (and think you have utilize for the goal), qualities you don't have but like to develop, and qualities you are not going to develop (for example, making a lot of money, or learning Russian).

[wolf]

(03-29-2011 09:56 AM)Invictus Wrote:  

Well, I guess the ultimate goal is to be able to successfully game girls of Victoria's Secret attractiveness. I'm not talking about a relationship with one, but bedding girls that hot somewhat consistently would be the ultimate evolution of game. I don't see this happening for another few years, though.

The goal is not to be a "prisoner of circumstance". Forced to settle because of limits to game abilty.

How would you go about designing a "strategy" to learn game. I've read quite a few books and self-help material, and they all value in one way or another, but it's hap-hazard and not very organized.

I understand "game" as far as routines go only get you so far. To hold on to a real hottie you actually have to be genuinely AWESOME guy - a guy with real character.

I get a sense that you don't bang too many women, no offense. My strategy would be to have more sex with regular looking girls while building experience and slowly transition to cuter and then "hot" women.

[Invictus]

None taken. I don't have any girls in my orbit, no. But I'm backpacking right now. I've gotten plenty of ass on this trip - I'm trying to graduate to the real hotties. I've had enough "regular" girls.