[Nemencine]

There has been a lot written here at RVF about Manosphere's vision of the future: with regards to women hitting the wall, Obesity, IQ distribution, the Race discussion, technological dearth from financial collapse, etcetera.

What i am going to write here will challenge most of these things. What i have written below will go against the grain here. However, everything i have written here is based on hard facts and I limit any fancy extrapolation or hypothetical conjecture.

I will limit my discussion to facts -- scientific facts. The discussion will focus a lot on current scientific discoveries, and how they challenge some dystopian manospheric visions. What most of you imagine the future will be, most likely wont happen. I shall attempt to elaborate on current researches that will seriously affect issues discussed in the Manosphere.

My post will be broken into four parts.

PART A:

#1. ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN'S INCREASING OBESITY/STAYING SLIM/WOMEN HITTING THE WALL

#2. ON DECLINING FERTILITY OF WESTERN WOMEN DUE TO CAREERISM AND BIRTH CONTROL.

PART B:

# 3. THE NEXT PHASE OF FEMALE HYPERGAMY

PART C:

#4. ON IQ SCORES

#5. ON THE ISSUE OF RACE AND RACE-MIXING. POPULATION DECREASE IN WHITE RACE.

PART D:

#6. INNOVATION AND THE GREAT DEPRESSION

Bear in mind that what i am writing below is not some fancy extrapolation into the future e.g. skynet computers. Not at all. What i am writing are actual scientific discoveries and breakthroughs that are already done. Verified. Completed. Not some guess work like skynet.

Check below for the posts:

[Nemencine]

#1. ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN'S INCREASING OBESITY/STAYING SLIM/WOMEN HITTING THE WALL

On RVF, there has been a boatload of threads and posts about how woman will get progressively fatter because of junk food consumption, hitting the wall earlier and playing with cats, etc. How biology cannot be bargained with.

I sincerely doubt that. In fact, i think the opposite will likely happen.

What actual, verifiable fact do i have that makes me think this?

Simply this: there is a gene present in all mammals(humans, rats, donkeys, etc.)that codes for an enzyme called PEPCK-C (phosphoenolypyruvate carboxykinases). It is a metabolic enzyme. When scientist took this gene and over-express it, that is, they alter the gene so that the body makes more of this PEPCK-C protein. They noticed certain striking results in their mice test subjects(Remember, humans have the exact same gene that does the exact same thing. )

These genetically modified mice can:

#1. Run five to six kilometers at a speed of 20 meters per minute on a treadmill for up to six hours before stopping. These genetically engineered rats produce very little lactic acids, which means their muscle doesnt get tired easily.

#2. These genetically modified rats can eat 60 percent more than controls(normal rats), but remain fitter, trimmer, live and breed longer than wild mice in a control group. Fatties would be proud. they can stuff their faces all day and not get fat! Not just that, they will live well past age 100 years and be slim all the way.

#3. Some of the genetically engineered female mice have had offsprings at 2.5 years of age --that is 150% above-- the limit of reproductive viability in normal rats. Normal mice don't reproduce after 1 year. That is, they hit the wall after 1 year of age and become barren. These genetically modified rats can still keep on reproducing at 2.5 years-- that is well past age 1 year. These bitches smashed through the Wall at warp speed and piss on it. Bitches:1, Wall:0 .

You can clearly see the ramifications of this, since this very same gene/protein does the EXACT same thing in humans as in mice. Humans have the exact same gene.

What is preventing scientists from making a "PEPCK-C protein cocktail" from this research, so that women's bodies do not respect the WALL? What is preventing scientists from making an anti-aging formulas from this research? A cocktail that also allows women to remain slim regardless of how many junk food they eat, and yet, still live up to 150 looking youthful? etc.

Remember, this is science that is already confirmed. Not some hypothetical stuff like skynet in the future. This is actual, biological, scientific fact.

Here is a layman's discussion of the successful scientific experiment(you can take a look at it here.). For the scientists on RVF, here is the actual scientific publication.

How long does a successful scientific research usually takes before developing into applicable pharmaceuticals for the average consumer? Hmmm.... tick, tock... tick,tock.... tick,tock....10 to 20 yrs.

Embryonic germline intervention in this case will take less time.... except that we have to worry about the bioethics of genetic engineering.

Those seriously looking forward to a dystopian future where gazillion of women collectively regret their cock carousel riding days, may be in for a surprise. Science and technology will just make women LESS likely to regret their poor decisions going forward, by rendering the wall invisible. PEPCK-C protein is the "anti-wall" protein.


#2. ON DECLINING FERTILITY OF WESTERN WOMEN DUE TO CAREERISM AND BIRTH CONTROL.

There is a recent, and very fun RVF thread on birth control that mocks women with photoshops, etc... The theme is that these women will be childless and regretting their wasted youth, because their focus is misguided. While i strongly share those sentiments, the scientist in me knows that is just a Manospheric wetdream that won't happen.

Why do i say this?

The reason is because i am acutely aware of this hard fact of reality: that the Japanese are already working on extrauterine fetal incubation device aka artificial womb. Here is an article in Nature Journal : http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v43/n4/...8109a.html about it.

It is only a matter of time before the research becomes advance enough for humans..... So that a type A, careerist, feminist lesbian do not need to "burden" herself with the inconvenience of a 9-month pregnancy to have a baby. She can just extract her eggs and fertilize them, and have the clinic incubate them for the next 9 months for her. What will she be doing in the meantime? Partying and clubbing year round. The maternal bond that results from carrying a baby in her womb for 9 months will be missing. She wont be using her own womb, and on top of that, she and her dyke partner can make as many babies as they want-- potentially preventing the declining birth rate in the West.

To those dystopians talking about the never-ending declining birth rate in the West; i say fear not, baby factories are coming near you, with buy one, get one free offer.

This is actual science that is going on right now, not some possible future conjecture. Scientists are already making head-ways in artificial womb, and below are some of the pictures of goats being grown in artificial womb....



So, you see, as i read about actual scientific breakthroughs and endeavours, thinking about the social implications through the lenses of Manospheric thought process...... I am forced to conclude again and again, that science and technology will upend Manospheric-inspired dystopian visions.

The biological punishment that Nature inflicts on women who rigorously rode the cock carousel in their youth will be gone. Science/technology is the cheat code in this evolutionary game. There is no day of reckoning coming in the future for irresponsible women's behaviour. Women will get to eat their cake and also have it, unfortunately.

I can hear the objections already: there will be massive financial collapse that will result in wars....... And you think this will slow down scientific discoveries and implementation? Au contraire. Since when in recorded human history has wars not accelerated engineering, science, and technology? If you look at wars in human history, too many countless times, wars has resulted in focused advancement in engineering, technology and science. Wars are battle for survival.... survival is the ultimate necessity .... and necessity is the mother of invention. What makes you think that an upcoming war wont simply results in more technological advancement that will further accelerates women's hyper-gamous instincts, just like world war 2 did?

I dont know how the future will turn out, but i dont think it will be some conservative dystopian future or lindy west's liberal fantasy. It is going to be something different and unexpected.

All i can do in this post is point out successful, ongoing research that will have ramification for the Manospheric vision of society.

[Nemencine]

# 3. THE NEXT PHASE OF FEMALE HYPERGAMY

This may sound strange, but I believe we are extremely lucky to be living in this day and age, in comparison to what is coming for players right around the corner. The 80/20 rule of 80% of bitches getting fucked by 20% of men will take a whole new meaning; becoming 2% of men impregnating 98% of women, the new 98/2 rule. The silver lining is that there is a difference between shagging and impregnating. Soon enough all your apex game, stunning good looks, perfect academic/work credentials will barely be enough, if at all. Why do I say this?

Simple answer: Genetic dating. You think i am exaggerating? It is already here:

There is a new website called SINGLDOUT.COM that uses genetic compatibility to try and match couples. Here is how it works. In 10 to 15 years, i can see this been widespread, fueled by the hamster; and it is clear where the advance version of this is headed: it wont be enough to be good looking, smart, smooth, etc. you will need to score "straight As" on various genetic categories as well.

I believe this will become widespread because of one almighty factor, the factor that is the female HYPERGAMOUS INSTINCT. In 15 to 20years, you wont be able to breed with hot chicks unless you have a solid, top notch genetic profile in addition to apex game and looks. Think about it: All the alpha male attributes of charisma, intelligence, accomplishment, and good looks are all proxies for genetic fitness. What is preventing the hamster from just aiming straight for the source, so to speak, i.e. genetic profiles?

There is no great equalizer waiting around the corner to make things easier in the brutal dating market, on the contrary, the competition will get fiercer.

Because every western female will want a genetic "straight As" man with all the other packages included. Their hypergamy and sense of entitlement demands it. Given the current restrictions on genetic engineering of humans, and the increasingly cheap/accessible genetic profiling techniques; the end result is that if you happen not to born with the "straight As" genetic package, you are fucked.

Expect vicious attacks on paternity tests in the Western world as cuckoldry shoots through the roof. The practice of "alpha fucks, beta bucks" will be taken to the nth degree. Why? Well, in France, it is currently illegal and punishable by jail term for the father to conduct paternity tests on his children(to determine if they are his.). This means that a married french woman can simply go on these dating sites, find a man with "straight As" genetic package, get herself pregnant, and have her beta husband help raise the child. It is a cruel world.

This is a culture of increasing over-sharing. Soon enough, dating websites will start demanding that you submit DNA for confidential analysis. They will analyze it, categorizing how you score on various genetic traits and defects, on a grading scale of "A" to "F"(without revealing the exact details of your genetic sequence). This will allow women to take a look at what is "under the hood" so to speak. A genetic version of "hot or not" website. This is going to be the new paradigm in dating. Your eharmony, okcupid, etc will include categories for your genetic markers. If your genetic profile doesnt matches up well with your stunning looks, charisma, and intelligence; dont be surprise if a bitch doesnt want your seed. She will sees you as a trojan horse. There is no demand too high that the female hypergamy will not lay claim to.

To stand a chance with 7.5s, 8s, and 9s; you will need: Game, Looks, Accomplishment, Lifestyle and "Straight As" genetics makeup. Heaps of men will be relegated to childlessness even though they are seasoned players with good looks and solid careers. That is why i think we are extremely lucky despite the insanity around us. The near future, 15 to 20 years from now, will be far worse. Female hyper-gamy is without mercy.

This is the best of times, and the worst of times.

Game is the great equalizer.....for now!! Soon enough Game will be as tertiary as having a good car or job is in today's dating market. Your genetic profiles will be prime determinant of your chances of passing on your genes. Genetic profile is the bette noire of Game, it will knock Game off its pedestal. Afterall, Game is a just proxy indicator for genetic fitness; actual genetic profiles *shows* that fitness without the use of a proxy.

Of course, if you have zero intent of having children then all these doesnt matter to you. However, these things matter to the world at large and it will have consequences, hence it matters to you.

[Nemencine]

#4. ON IQ SCORES.

There have been a lot of electronic ink spilled over IQ ratios and patterns, asian IQs, black IQs, white IQs, hispanic IQs, etcetera. 2Wycked did a solid review post on GATTACA, and the discussion on that thread turned towards the genetic basis of intelligence. Speaking of genetic intelligence, here is a very disruptive news for society:

There is a gene present in many different mammals(including humans) that plays a solid role in genetic intelligence and memory. That gene is NR2B. NR2B stands for Glutamate [NMDA] receptor subunit epsilon-2 gene, or N-methyl D-aspartate receptor subtype 2B.

When scientists took this gene/protein and over-express it, that is, they modified the gene so that the body produce more of this protein(NR2B) above normal levels. What happened? The test subject, affectionately named Hobbie-J, started to exhibit "improved memory performances in novel object recognition test, spatial water maze, and delayed-to-nonmatch working memory test." Basically, it becomes 3 times smarter than average.

For the sake of comparison, if we say that the average IQ of rat is 100; Hobbie-J has an IQ of 300. Guess what? Humans have that exact same gene doing the exact same thing in us.

I have taken the liberty of finding a layman's explanation of what scientists did, you can find it here. For the RVF science majors, here is the detailed scientific publication.

The other interesting thing about the study is that, it was based on just *one* enhancement using what is called CaMKII promoter sequence. Why is this relevant? Because scientists could make things even more interesting by DUPLICATING that enhancement, as such resulting in even greater NR2B protein levels. What could be the effects of that *double enhancement*? 600IQ? or 900IQ?

To give you an idea of what i mean. Here is a normal whippet dog with normal gene muscle:



Below, is a whippet dog with a *duplicate* gene for muscle growth:


(clearly, looking alpha as fuck.)

You see what a single duplication of a normal gene can do?

What do you think will happen with the duplication of an *enhanced* gene? Especially a gene that codes for IQ like NR2B gene? The result? IQ 600? IQ 900?

Again, all this is based on science that is already done successfully. Not some hypothetical stuff like skynet. And that gene is found in humans doing the exact same thing.

And if you are thinking that some wars will prevent this from happening, remember that the last war(ww2) was an eugenics war. And countless modern wars have resulted in focused advancement in science and technology; Any upcoming dystopian war will be any different? Why would it? Because of what? Any upcoming dystopian war will probably accelerate these genetic discoveries and implementation. This is what war does to science and technology -- accelerate their implementation.

A dystopian war will not wipe the state clean, instead it will prompt a massive implementation of scientific breakthroughs. Genetic engineering is such a breakthrough. The implementation of genetic engineering among humans will definitely resulted in the stratification of society. While advances in science always ended up been shared by all; the elite will have first exposure to the benefits of genetic engineering. They will have a MASSIVE edge because they received a head start. This is not the stone age, we are not in 1800s or 10ADs or 60BCs. We are in 2014. There is no wiping the slate to zero. Technology is simply too advanced.

Another consideration are the Chinese. What do i mean? The chinese don't seem to have the same qualms that westerners have, when it comes to genetic tampering. For example, the story of the basketball player Yao Ming: The chinese government specifically chose his parents to breed together so as to produce a gifted basketball playing giant. Looking at Yao Ming record, clearly it was a successful experiment.


And that is the thing though, if there is war like some people in the Manosphere are expecting; what makes anybody think that some foreign government or rich individuals wont simply genetically engineered their own offsprings? To imbue them with stratospheric advantages? Especially, if there is no more government agency to enforce anti-eugenics laws that will imprison you for tampering with human genetics.

Again, the NR2B gene/protein is an actual scientific breakthrough, not some fancy future projections like skynet.

This goes to my view on discussion of genetic intelligence in the Manosphere. When germline genetic engineering or some cocktail protein of NR2B from this research is finally approved; this will render IQ boasting mute. Because you can simply manufacture higher IQ out of almost nothing, so those boasting about their IQs, or trying to preserve their race IQ are just wasting their time.


#5. ON THE ISSUE OF RACE AND RACE-MIXING. POPULATION DECREASE IN WHITE RACE.

There has been some heated back and forth debate on RVF on the status of the white race. The declining birth rate, interracial dating, etc. with some lamenting the impending extinction of whites.

That is not going to happen. Why am I so sure? Well, scientist can simply create genetic whites from any race. Yes, you are reading that correctly: scientists can manufacture white people from any other race, and vice versa. How?

Well, on chromosome #15 in our DNA(we have 23 chromosomes), there is a gene cluster called OCA2. Scientists discover that by simply changing single building blocks of our DNA in this OCA2 region; they can make you whatever colour of the fucking rainbow you wanted. If they change a couple of those building blocks(nucleotides) in that location on chromosome #15, you can change a person's skin colour, eye colour, and hair colour. They can make you from white to black to asian or vice versa. This is already verified and confirmed research.

The dark-skin black beauty with the perfect booty that you are shagging senseless, may actually have been born a blonde, blue-eye in Norway. We've already found the gene that does it, experimented on it in lower animals. This is confirmed. This is biological fact, so it is not a conjecture.

Self-hating minority parents could simply change the genes of their children while still in embryonic stage, to make them white in every other aspect. In countries where whiteness is obsessed over, there will be glut of white babies....from asian parents. And to answer your next question, the "synthetic" whites babies will be genetically in-differentiable from "organic, ancestral" whites. Why? Because DNA is DNA. It is all chemistry. You wont be able to tell the difference phenotypically or genotypically.

With more advances in somatic gene therapy, hey, elliot rodger would be able to turn himself into a blonde man. He will be able to graft the genetics makeups of blonde, northern european Teutonic specimen into his DNA and wipe out his asian genes. That is what that crazy incel fuck wanted, right?

Eventually, i can imagine this being a form of plastic surgery.... and here is where things can get ugly. Why do i say this? You can have whatever colour of the rainbow you wanted, that means, If you want to have deep-green skin, bright radioactive yellow eyes, and spikey red hair. they can also make that happen... And guess what? Your children will inherit them -- the new germline modifications. A total freak show. If you are offended by skrillex haircut, wait till you see this. In fact, scientist already created monkeys that can glow green in the dark, and remember, monkeys are 95% genetically identical to humans. Here is the layman publication, and for the RVF science majors, here is the scientific publication. Oh yes, when that monkey had babies, those baby monkey also glows green in the dark-- The parents has passed on the gene modifications. Here are the picture of the green glowing monkey babies:




So, yeah, you can create a woman with a glowing pussy.

Anyways, this will radically fuck with the conception of beauty. There will be massive glut of whites all over asia and latin american countries. IRTs will be happy. Whites are not going extinct.

Everything i have written above is scientific fact of today. Not some hypothetical future conjecture. France has already carried out live somatic gene therapies, and the OCA2 gene is already discovered. These are actual scientific discoveries and fact of today...

So, yeah, on the issue of race, white people are not going to die out. Science is advance enough to simply manufacture more of them if desired.

The only limitation is the human ethics on genetic engineering....and potential genetic fat tails as i discussed here.


Again, to re-iterate, these are actual science being done NOW! Not some hypothetical skynet of the future. These are verified scientific breakthroughs and discoveries of the PRESENT.

I write this because they are pertinent to issues being discussed in the Manosphere: slimmer women, hitting the wall, immigration/IQs, reproductive viability, etc Even if war broke out like some people are expecting, what is stopping the elite from using their resources to create genetically superior super babies? They can simply use lower class women to carry the embryo/fetus to term. They can partial-birth abort the faulty ones, while keeping the healthy, genetically superior babies for world domination. How is any upcoming war going to level the playing field given these technological advances? or wipe the slate clean given these scientific discoveries?

Yes, the technology and science will spread and eventually benefit everybody, because that has been the history of science... but... it will largely benefit the elite.

[Nemencine]

# 6. INNOVATION AND THE GREAT DEPRESSION

Numerous times on RVF we've all seen posts and threads predicting the coming great decline, and how every thing will grind to a halt when it finally hits. All sorts of conjectures and scenarios on how society will descend into darkness without any innovations in science and technology during such a financial collapse. The thinking seems to be: Since innovations and technology needs capital investment to sustain the people and product needed for the innovations. That means in a great decline, with capital completely dried up, innovations and technology will stagnate and things will fall into a state of disrepair.

After i came across this theme a couple of times, i asked myself: Is any of this seemingly rational conjecture even backed up by any historical facts? That is the gold standard to judge any conjecture or hypothesis: HARD, COLD FACTS.

For my investigation, i chose the Great Depression of 1929 to 1941. It is an extremely severe depression lasting roughly a decade, and historically documented so we can all verify the facts ourselves. I prefer verifiable facts over nice sounding conjectures.

So, what did i find?

While the Great Depression was an extremely annoying irritant to the pace of innovation, however, it did NOT grind innovation to a halt(or did anything even remotely approaching what looks like a halt). In fact, after some initial decline, the rate of innovation stabilizes and keep chugging along: people creative energy merely adapts and re-focus to their current needs and wants-- producing breakthroughs that are relevant to the social stress of their times.

Below is a moving average graph of per capita patents granted by the united states patent office. I have underlined in red the Great Depression decade of 1929 to 1941 :


That graph is from the Brookings Institute. Looking at the graph, a precipitous decline in patents granted happen between 1939 to 1960: a period of actual economic progress since the Great Depression ended in 1941. What makes you think another future financial collapse similar to the Great Depression or worse, will have different result on patents granted?

Patents granted as proxy for measuring the rate of innovation and technology in society.

From the above graph, while the Great Depression did slow down innovations, it did not grind it to a halt or even cause a precipitous decline, despite financial capital drying up.

The massive, precipitous decline in patents granted started with World War 2 in 1939 to 1945, which clearly affects the patent submission to the USPTO. Bear in mind that the war itself generated a boatload of innovations that were not patented, while the war was still being fought.

For those itching for an academic study, there was one done by Harvard Business School that analyzes the pattern of innovations during the Great Depression in terms of quality and quantity. The paper is "Did Bank Distress Stifle Innovation During the Great Depression?". It is only 47 pages, give it a read. They looked at the R & D budget of private and publicly traded companies, and the data from the United states patent office, to reach their conclusion. Yes, there was an initial sharp decline(especially in companies with heavy debt exposure), but it tapers off and stabilizes, and innovation chugs along during the Great Depression.

Another interesting thing about that period is some companies actually invested heavily in innovatiion, e,.g Dupont and IG Farben. That is how Dupont ended up inventing synthetic rubber and nylon which we still uses today; during the Great Depression IG Farben patent introduce sulfonamide antibiotics to the world. Both innovations were ground breaking.

Some of the innovations produced during the Great Depression are: Electron microscope, vitamin C and K, car radio, LSD, the first photocoping machine(xerograph), electric razor, the first helicopter, tampax, nuclear fission, laundromat, supermarket, the first programmable computer(Z1 computer), etc, etc. the list of world changing originality and ideas are long. In fact, wikipedia does a solid job of compiling technological innovations between 1929 and 1941.

(For a more modern view, here is another 37 pages report by the OECD looking at the pattern of innovations across different countries around 2008 financial crisis.) OECD stands for Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development. They are made up of these countries.

Given these solid, historical facts, i am very hesitant to believe that a great financial collapse will lead to some "dark age" scenario where technological innovations will grind to a halt. I prefer to based my hypothesis on actual, documented historical facts; not nice sounding conjecture.

Science and Technology were not the only thing that kept reaching new height during the Great Depression: It was an important period for analytical philosophy, especially the development of logical positivism. Not just in the narrow field of analytical philosophy, but other great minds and philosophers were in their prime and producing works in philosophy and economics(including John Maynad Keynes and Ludwig von Mises). Take a look at the list.

Even in the entertainment industry, here is what hollywood was doing during the great depression.

In music too: great Jazz musicians like Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington, were producing innovating works during the Great Depression. I am sure, thedude3737, TravelerKai and Feisbook Control can discuss jazz/jazz history in more depth than me.

The Great Depression was from 1929 to 1941, lasting a decade and it happened when society is not as technologically advance as it is now in 2014. Despite that, a lot of great innovations and ideas were produced during that period. Necessity is the mother of invention. As such, I seriously doubt that technology and innovation will grind to a halt if we have total financial collapse. I think we as a species will simply do what we've been doing all along: Adapt.

regards

Nemencine

[Kvothe]

Out of interest, I read once in you post that you are a scientist, but may I ask which field?

[scorpion]

I appreciate the effort you put into these posts, but a lot of this is just laughable scientific utopianism. Further, in many instances your reasoning is only confused, but you seem to draw the exactly wrong conclusion (i.e. your supposition that genetic dating will become common leading only 2% of men to procreate. This is supposed to be a positive outcome for society???). You sound like a modern day Dr. Pangloss.

I am on my way out the door now now, but I will come back to this thread later with more detailed thoughts.

[void]

You describe a "Brave New World". The only way for humans to further evolve is with (genetical) manipulation, as almost no selection towards an improvement of the human race is happening at moment.
This brave new world is only possible with cheap energy, and your innovation chart reflects why there was a lack of innovation in the 1970-1990. The oil-crisis, no cheap energy. A large chunk of the patents after 1990 are software patents. Humanities steps are getting smaller, faster and mostly virtual.
Bet on renewable or nuclear fission/fusion reactors to sustain further progress, or else were back to the 1800s.

[Nemencine]

@ kvolthe

i will send you a PM about my area of specialization.


@scorpion

My post has zero to do with scientific utopianism. there will be negative and positive outcomes. That is what i try to point out here. I point out positives like PEPCK-C gene; and negatives like genetic profiling. It is not black or white.

Perhaps, it wasnt very clear. I use the 98/2 ratio to illustrate a point that the number of men that can reproduce will diminish significantly due to genetic profiling. How much? i dont know. The 98/2 ratio is to make a point about increase competition in the dating market due to genetic profiling.

@ void.

you raise sociological points that will take a lot to respond to. i appreciate the response, but i fear a more detailed response will likely derail this thread.

thank you

Nemencine

[RockHard]

I've been thinking for a while that someone could write a novel along the lines of "The Handmaid's Tale", only in a future where the matriarchy has won.

[Travesty]

I think in the next 50 years the amount of changes we will see in humanity due to genetic and cell manipulation will be staggering.

The changes between 2014-2064 will be multiples of the changes from 1964-2014 in how human society works.

I think it will be a rough road in the next 50 years because as quickly as we changed how we socialize through the internet and phones, how we interact and relate to other humans will change even more by how we structure life.

The only thing I disagree with is the DNA date testing and 2% of men having everything. By the time it comes to that even people with deficient genetics will be able to upgrade theirs. Beyond that a man can only handle so many women. Even if he spent each waking moment 2 hrs a week with each harem member that is 56 total girls. Not gonna happen.

What I do see happening though is an elite caste system based on youth and genetic enhancements that could be extremely divisive in the period of 20-40 years in the future.

As I keep saying I think it is extremely hard to comprehend how important money will be in about 15-20 years. It will be much more important than merely getting the best surgeries, cancer treatment, etc..

[Walderschmidt]

(07-27-2014 04:43 PM)Nemencine Wrote:  

@ void.

you raise sociological points that will take a lot to respond to. i appreciate the response, but i fear a more detailed response will likely derail this thread.

thank you

Nemencine

Use the PM system, my good man.

Wald

[BortimusPrime]

All this genetic manipulation only works if your parents actually plan their pregnancy and pick traits that you actually end up wanting as an adult. Rather than widespread usage in the future all you're going to get is the same screwy Chinese-American parents forcing their kids to practice their violin 10 hours a day, except this time they got started at conception so their little prodigy could have specialized violin-playing tentacles and dog ears for improved hearing, with the same result that the kid burns out in college and his tentacles never again wrap around another violin bow.

[cibo]

There are many things that can be done but are prevented for a variety of reasons by society and government. You're underestimating their affects in your analysis.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Some truly staggering research and thoughts here. Thanks for gathering this.

It's, however, quite depressing.

[Foolsgo1d]

Its not a matter of progress, it is a matter of resistance.

Humans resist change. So some day you make a superior human. Stronger, faster and more intelligent. Whats to say normal humans would accept this? It will be seen as an abomination, a defiling moment in human history and it will be met with violence.

Those who do not hold a religious angle will either hate being replaced or want in on the action.

The result of this will not be good.

[Samseau]

Overall -

Some great points made up above. Rep added. However, just because we can get things to work on animals doesn't mean we're close to getting it to work on humans. Genetically engineered humans is still probably a century away. That said, even if western civ has total death, our scientific ideas may be carried on by other cultures so not all hope is lost.

I still think America is fucked, but at least the knowledge gained here will be put to good use elsewhere. Hopefully if America breaks up there will be parts of the nation that still revere scientific research, such as the northeast.


Now, let's talk specifics -

1. The idea that war guarantees scientific breakthroughs is not true. Although SOMETIMES war leads to great innovation, there have been thousands of wars that have resulted in the loss of technology and knowledge.

The burning of the libraries at Alexandria are a good example. The dark ages are another. The death of science in the Islamic world is yet another. There is no inexorable law of progress. Political will to carry out science is just as important as the scientists.

For WW2, many intelligent German scientists were sent to America after the war and produced most of the scientific breakthroughs we have today. There were also the Jewish German scientists who fled to America (e.g., Einstein) and gave us great technology. But the takeaway here is that without a safe political environment for these scientists to run to, these guys may have been killed by war and the knowledge and future technology could have been lost forever.

Let us not forget the hundreds of thousands of Soviet and Chinese intellectuals/scientists who were killed because they did not match the Communist agenda.

2. The idea that this technology will become available to the masses in our lifetimes seems like fantasy to me. You better start saving up millions if you want your kids to be born in a test-tube.

3. Although many other cultures value white-skin, it is not clear if they will change the other parts of DNA normally associated with the white-race. So all that may happen is an Asian or Latino looking dude with white skin. Even still, the idea that women can be genetically modified to be more beautiful is an appealing hope.

4. People back in the 1950's were predicting that there would be flying cars in the future, there was 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc. Sir Francis Bacon used to predict amazing things were coming from science.

Ultimately, if scientific progress is not stopped then it does produce amazing things, but people always over-estimate how fast progress is. Science is not some kind of exponential increase like Ray Kurzweil and other hucksters try to tell us. There is no reason to believe scientific progress will be quick or efficient. It may not be centuries until this stuff comes to fruition. And if the political situation deteriorates, then most of this scientific progress stuff is going away unless carried on by other civilizations.

5. The idea that the Chinese or some other Asian society will carry on Western research (read: White-men research) is also dubious. Currently over 90% of technology comes from Western civilizations. Asians seem to lack the creative gene. So there's no guarantee that other civilizations will take things forward.

6. A great example of technology being lost occurred after the collapse of Rome. The people who replaced the Romans had no idea how to build an aqueduct, or any of Roman's structures. All the engineering was lost, as well as many forms of their governance.

The Byzantines did manage to preserve much of Roman architecture, but even they did not have aqueducts. The Byzantines did have greek fire, but even this technology was lost over time as the Byzantine empire died.

So again, there are numerous examples of technology being lost or destroyed. Scientists are completely at the mercy of politics.


Conclusion -

Much hope lies in technology, but our leadership is retarded and will probably kill things before it can save us. Other cultures may keep our scientific traditions alive but so far no other culture can replicate what Western Civ (Let's be real: White Civ) has accomplished.

Also, other races may be repulsed by our science in general. Who is to say Africans would not be disgusted with the idea of creating white babies in a test tube?

[Switch]

With regards to the artificial womb: that's scary shit. That's straight out of Brave New World.

I think that there's no way of preventing society's progress into some sort of dystopian future. It'

It won't happen very quickly, but within 200, 300 years I can see a society so automated that people just sit around and smoke weed all day and then eventually die. It's kind of sad to think about the future like that, but that's where we're headed.

Our current society is based off of growth, of both the economy and the population. Both cannot keep growing forever. Once we get to the maximum of both, which will probably happen about the same time, there will be a decline as population settles into equilibrium. Once we reach economic and population equilibrium, that's when the dystopia will start. Now I don't have any facts to back up this theory, it's just how I think things are gonna go down. My personal plan will stay the same: stack mad paper so if/when shit hits the fan, i have an escape route to a cabin in the woods with guns, ammo, gold, and non-perishables

[Nemencine]

@Travesty444

Like i reply to scorpion above, the 98/2 is not to be taking literally. I use 98/2 in comparison to 80/20 to show that genetic dating profiles will significantly increase the dating market competition. You are contending against that with a genetic engineering argument.

I disagree. Here is why: Because you need to *first* have advances in genetic profiling before you can have advances in genetic engineering. Basically, genetic profiling precedes genetic engineering for the simple fact that before you can engineer a gene, you first need to profile the gene.

Genetic profiling technology is more advance and cheaper than genetic engineering technology. Profiling comes before engineering. Besides, there are laws against human genetic engineering, but there are no laws against genetic profiling. Except in China where they engage in genetic engineering.

That means that genetic profiling will become cheaper and more widespread for years before genetic engineering even catch up to it. What is preventing women from using genetic profiling in their mate selection strategy? nothing.

I agree that initially there will be a caste system, but the stratification will diminish as the science becomes widespread.... yes, being a rich person will become increasing important. .


@ cibo

I am not underestimating the possibility of a genetic black swan event. Genes can be crazy fucks. It took evolution eons to perfect this. Playing God is dangerous, however, this is not stopping the chinese though. Nonetheless, there are lots of progress that have been made in the area of transgenic research. Rice that can make vitamin A; salmons that are bigger, pinker and more delicious than wild salmons, etc.

@ Handsome Creepy Eel

It is depressing. That is why i was surprised when Scorpion stated i was being utopian. I merely look at a lot of issues discussed in the manosphere, and discuss scientific discoveries that may have potential impact on them.

@Foolsgo1d

I agree. it will be chaotic. because creating a genetically superior being is potentially signing our death sentence as a species...depending on how many +SD this being is further from us. If it is going to be done at all, it should be done in slow, incremental stages. But, i am not sure the Chinese gives a fuck.

[Veloce]

Major props to Nemencine for putting this together. I don't feel qualified to refute many of the points he brings up, and I'm in agreement with many of his points anyway.

Futurology is endlessly fascinating to me, because the possibilities seem endless. We are in the midst a dramatic exponential curve and it's only going to get exponentially more intense during our lifetime.

Humans came about roughly 200,000 years ago. Our first major development was agriculture about 12,000 years ago.

For roughly 188,000 years, which you can't even comprehend, we lived as hunter gatherers. It took tens of thousands of years to develop metal tools. Innovation happened over hundreds and thousands of years. In only a few thousand years, we arrived at the Industrial Revolution, which accelerated innovation to progress in the span of centuries and decades, rather than millenia.

Fast forward to today, where innovation takes place in the digital realm, and every 20 MONTHS the previous computing power is obsolete. This has led many to start consider the "technology singularity" event, where we eventually create an entity on Earth that is more intelligent than a human.

People tend to think about this new intelligence as some sort of "Terminator" esque entity, but I think the reality is it will be something more along the lines of what Nemencine is discussing; through genetic engineering and the implementation of nanotechnology. The superhuman intelligence will exist in a digital media first; something without form, but eventually it will take shape.

What it will look like, noone knows. But it could be absolutely terrifying. The singularity event will dwarf the agricultural, industrial, and digital revolution in significance, as the world ushers in the first super-human intelligence that we are aware of.

[Renzy]

(07-27-2014 03:27 PM)Nemencine Wrote:  

# 3. THE NEXT PHASE OF FEMALE HYPERGAMY

This may sound strange, but I believe we are extremely lucky to be living in this day and age, in comparison to what is coming for players right around the corner. The 80/20 rule of 80% of bitches getting fucked by 20% of men will take a whole new meaning; becoming 2% of men impregnating 98% of women, the new 98/2 rule. The silver lining is that there is a difference between shagging and impregnating. Soon enough all your apex game, stunning good looks, perfect academic/work credentials will barely be enough, if at all. Why do I say this?

Simple answer: Genetic dating. You think i am exaggerating? It is already here:

There is a new website called SINGLDOUT.COM that uses genetic compatibility to try and match couples. Here is how it works. In 10 to 15 years, i can see this been widespread, fueled by the hamster; and it is clear where the advance version of this is headed: it wont be enough to be good looking, smart, smooth, etc. you will need to score "straight As" on various genetic categories as well.

I believe this will become widespread because of one almighty factor, the factor that is the female HYPERGAMOUS INSTINCT. In 15 to 20years, you wont be able to breed with hot chicks unless you have a solid, top notch genetic profile in addition to apex game and looks. Think about it: All the alpha male attributes of charisma, intelligence, accomplishment, and good looks are all proxies for genetic fitness. What is preventing the hamster from just aiming straight for the source, so to speak, i.e. genetic profiles?

There was a movie called Gattaca that came out almost 20 years ago portraying this type of future. I still remember the scene where a woman goes up to the counter of a lab and has them swab her lips so she can get the genetic profile of the man she had just made out with - the implications being everything alluded to in the post above- that women won't need shit-tests in the future, just a sample of your saliva.

[Foolsgo1d]

Also lets not forget the Dark Ages which followed from the collapse of the Roman Empire. Many years of no development on any fronts bar physical violence.

If our civilization were to hit a major bump in the road it will have a period of extreme violence. Look at the Balkans and Iraq or Syria for examples.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-27-2014 06:21 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Major props to Nemencine for putting this together. I don't feel qualified to refute many of the points he brings up, and I'm in agreement with many of his points anyway.

Futurology is endlessly fascinating to me, because the possibilities seem endless. We are in the midst a dramatic exponential curve and it's only going to get exponentially more intense during our lifetime.

Humans came about roughly 200,000 years ago. Our first major development was agriculture about 12,000 years ago.

For roughly 188,000 years, which you can't even comprehend, we lived as hunter gatherers. It took tens of thousands of years to develop metal tools. Innovation happened over hundreds and thousands of years. In only a few thousand years, we arrived at the Industrial Revolution, which accelerated innovation to progress in the span of centuries and decades, rather than millenia.
..

Who says that mankind has not had one or 2 previous relatively high civilizations and simply degenerated and the continents were mostly destroyed?

There are many books written by high-level scientists among those extremely well-connected ones like Charles Galton Darwin (who worked on the Manhattan project among others) who stated in his book THE NEXT MILLION YEARS (http://75.72.244.165/Sundark/cgdarwin.pdf) that mankind is by far older and had previous extremely advanced civilizations. Within 200.000 years there is plenty of time for civilizations to rise even to interstellar technology-level and to even disappear again. There are plenty of sources on the topics of the pyramids which are scattered around the world and can be found in the number of hundreds even in China - meaning that they were likely built by older human civilizations. Frankly even our civilization - were it not for the extremely high population number and spread - could lose our technological advancement within 2000 years or faster quite easily.

All the points mentioned in the article are valid to a degree. But the conclusions are frankly off to a great level.

The plans are spelled out by the monetary and scientific elite quite clearly - the goal is a Brave New World basically with the attempt to change most men into meat-robots without much free will.

http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Futu...1611450136 Jacques Attali - high level EU official above all politicians, CFR, Bilderberg etc.

http://www.cfr.org/defense-strategy/dcdc...036/p13101
DCDC Global Strategic Trends Programme, 2007-2036 - high level military doc on predicted future trends - link on gov-website no longer active, but document can be found here: http://cuttingthroughthematrix.com/artic...3jan07.pdf

[Wutang]

"The plans are spelled out by the monetary and scientific elite quite clearly - the goal is a Brave New World basically with the attempt to change most men into meat-robots without much free will. "

Sometimes in my my paranoid and conspiracy theory-ish moments I wonder if a lot of the attacks that have come against the idea of free will has been encouraged by the elite cultural programmers.

[Nemencine]

@ samseau.

I am going to segment the post. separate the scientific from the historical. I will reply to the scientific first, then reply to the historical examples second.

(07-27-2014 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Overall -

Some great points made up above. Rep added. However, just because we can get things to work on animals doesn't mean we're close to getting it to work on humans.

Thanks for the rep.
Indeed, successful animal testing is not necessarily successful human testing: we can create a cancer drug that will work in rats, but will not work in humans. However, The PEPCK-C and NR2B gene experiment are different in away. What do i mean? It was a gene upregulation experiment. A gene that is already present and performing the same function in humans changed to do it better. All that the experiments did is make it *increase* its original performance. Like nitrous to make a car go faster.

It is one thing to introduce a completely different gene(Nissan car engine into a toyota car); it is another to just boost an already present gene(nitrous a toyota car engine). Boosting an already present gene is much more likely to work than introducing a foreign gene and hoping it sticks.

The PEPCK-C and NR2B gene experiment is a like nitrous a car engine to work faster.

Take the case of Liam Hoekstra. He has two mutated muscle gene, he was born with six packs and he is insanely strong.



Scientist has already mutated in mice to create super strong mice, the exact same gene mutation that Liam Hoeskstra has. They havent done a human experiment, luckily, Nature provides one in the person of Liam Hoeskstra. Which provides a positive proof that if a gene performs the same strongly homologous function in mice( or monkey) as it does in humans; it is a fair chance that if you mutate the human gene you can get a similar results to the one you get in a mutated monkey or mice.

Another case is that of Eero Mäntyranta of Finland. He won 7 medals in the olympic. One of the most successful skiing champion in the world. He has a mutation in his red blood cells gene, causing his red blood cell to carry 50% more oxygen than normal human being.

The case of Liam Hoekstra and Eero Mantyranta are both mutants of upregulation. The NR2B and PEPCk-C experiments are mutants of upregulation too. Upregulation of gene activity in genetic experiments are more likely to work than not.

Nonetheless, genes can be fiendishly complicated mess, as i explained here. Some genes are easier to understand, some are totally not.

(07-27-2014 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Genetically engineered humans is still probably a century away.

Yes and no. It all depends on what you are genetically engineering. If you give me 50 or so fertilized human eggs, after a couple of misses, i will produce for you another Eero Mäntyranta mutant. How? I can simply subclone Eero Mantyranta mutated gene and use a vector to insert it into the embryos. Bunch of them will fail, of course; but a couple will be successful. These kinds of mutation are easier because you are simply upregulating an already present gene. Mutations that are more difficult are the ones involving introducing a jellyfish gene into a monkey or a human.

Taking a gene that naturally occurs in humans and simply increasing its production rate is much easier, and have a higher likelihood of being successful.

(07-27-2014 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

2. The idea that this technology will become available to the masses in our lifetimes seems like fantasy to me. You better start saving up millions if you want your kids to be born in a test-tube.

France and UK already performed successful somatic genetic engineering to cure little children with SCID. Here is the French results; and here is the UK results.

So, yeah, they've done partially successful studies on humans.. obviously, there will be longitudinal study on these children.

Nonetheless, i doubt that wide-scale genetic engineering in the western world will become available in our lifetime. The western world is strongly against genetic engineering is more or less.

(07-27-2014 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

4. People back in the 1950's were predicting that there would be flying cars in the future, there was 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc. Sir Francis Bacon used to predict amazing things were coming from science.Ultimately, if scientific progress is not stopped then it does produce amazing things, but people always over-estimate how fast progress is. Science is not some kind of exponential increase like Ray Kurzweil and other hucksters try to tell us. There is no reason to believe scientific progress will be quick or efficient. It may not be centuries until this stuff comes to fruition.
And if the political situation deteriorates, then most of this scientific progress stuff is going away unless carried on by other civilizations.

It is one thing to based extrapolation on current scientific fact e.g. google glass will eventually become google contact lenses. That is sensible. It is another thing entirely to base extrapolation on absolutely nothing. e.g. flying cars, lightsabers. My post is based on current, verified science; not star wars science.

Absolutely, you need the right political environment. In france you can do somative genetic engineering, in america you cannot. Different political climate. But my point is this: if you have complete chaos as conservative dystopians are predicting, what is preventing a bunch of millionaires and billionaires from moving and guarding a bunch of islands. Then performing genetic engineering there? nothing. They can create there own political climate to pursue their own science.

(07-27-2014 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

5. The idea that the Chinese or some other Asian society will carry on Western research (read: White-men research) is also dubious. Currently over 90% of technology comes from Western civilizations. Asians seem to lack the creative gene. So there's no guarantee that other civilizations will take things forward.

I am not well versed on this kind of racial topics, so i cannot properly address it. I will say this though, from my own anecdotal experience, my graduate science classes are filled to the brim with asian students. They dominated completely. I have performed scientific research with asian students, and they are creative and innovative. Besides, if you do a search in scientific journals, you will see a lot of asian names doing ground breaking, creative scientific research.

Next, i will reply to your historical examples: