[VincentVinturi]

As men, we're always looking to maximize our resources (time, money, energy) and - equally importantly - limit wastage of those resources, particularly in the pursuit of women.

As I travel around, I realize that some locations are fundamentally more favorable for achieving these goals.

And often, the difference between a 'decent' locale and a great locale is an order of magnitude.

In other words, some places are a poor value in terms of how much you need to expend to "pay" for the product (pussy) and some places are a closeout, midnight "everything must go!" sale.

Example: I live in Bangkok where accommodations are cheap, public transportation is excellent and the ratio of women to men is out of this world.

You'd have to be a total retard to not get more ass than you can handle in the Big Mango.

And, if you have even a modicum of understanding of women, game, and logistics, you can easily get your dick wet every night of the week with a different hottie.

These favorable economics make it possible to get laid a lot with really hot girls without having to extend yourself financially, temporally or energetically.

My go-to move is a meeting at the night market by my apartment. We have a drink or some sushi (rarely more than $10 all said and done), and then if the chemistry is percolating, off to bang we go.

However....

Right now I'm down in Phuket (in the South of Thailand) for a month of training jiu jitsu and getting some sun. Bangkok is great but it's dirty and dark. Not exactly the healthiest place to live.

The street where I'm staying here in Phuket is comprised of 95% men.

Most of them are here with the express purpose of training Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA so you could argue that having women around would be a big distraction.

I'd argue that not having them around is a lot more fucking distracting.

When the occasional woman walks into the restaurant or down the street, all the guys are looking at her like hungry wolves, even if she's just an average looking girl.

Hence, she can be picky, rude, unfriendly, etc., and one of us *will* swoop her, guaranteed. She's in a seller's market and she knows it.

So even if you're driven to get laid and have a good rap, you'll be competing with a lot of dudes for mediocre women

- OR -

You'll be battling insane logistics to meet local girls because this is a big ass island that requires motorbiking all over the place, dodging crooked cops, dealing with monsoon rains and other nonsense.

Last night my Israeli buddy and I went and sat on the corner at a tiny bar with about 5 bar girls, just having a few drinks.

I have no qualms with smashing a bargirl if that's my only option and shoring doesn't work. My dick doesn't care whence the pussy originates. But even the cutest of these chicks was a 6 at best.

And yet, my boner was still in full effect. She told me she was on her period and then wanted me to pay an outlandish fee for the privilege of menstrual sex.

I was still sated from the hot 20 year old I picked up on the beach a few days ago, so banging a bleeding bargirl wasn't at the top of my list. But given the situation, I was tempted.

So the moral of the story is that there's a hierarchy of game. If you're fishing in the wrong pond, you're going to need a shiny, expensive lure to catch a few unsightly guppies.

But if you're fishing in the right pond, you can throw an unbaited hook in and snag a rainbow trout on Monday, a carp on tuesday, a catfish on Wednesday...etc etc

Game is vital, no doubt about it. And wherever you go, you can't bemoan the fact that you're not in ideal conditions; you must adapt to get laid as Roosh recently explained upon his return to DC.

But first things first: location.

If you can pick the right location, you'll be able to save shit-tons of money, get more ass than you ever dreamed of and spend less time than ever getting it.

Gender economics come before pick up skills in the game hierarchy. To have a life full of female abundance, you need both.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Good points.

People discard demographics and local movements of populations which make Game difficult or easy:

Factors like:

- male to female ratio in the population
- immigration levels
- tourists - male/female/couples
- university town
- level of affluence with many career opportunities for women
- local reasons for many women to move to the region/town
- by far higher preference of women for a man of different race than the local one - you get a massively high DHV from the onset

Though I based my decision on different reasons, I am happy that I live in Eastern Europe, where women are slimmer, more numerous and the ratio is way better - thus making Game way easier.

In my opinion the best super-easy-Game in the West would be to create a Playboy kind of super-high-net-worth-lifestyle with bi-weekly parties and plenty of girls just showing up at your mansion. In effect it is a replication of classic Hugh-Hefner-Game. What Dan Bilzerian is doing is quite similar to it, but aided by social media for easy pickings and doing more fun activities than just staying in one place.
Some billionaires are actually creating that kind of environment sometimes also by inviting celebrities as guests for pussy-bait.

But of course that kind of Game would make massive wealth necessary - Hefner can hardly afford it nowadays.

[ASOT]

From my experiences living in Sydney (a market stacked against men) and travelling to various places that are more favourable to men I agree completely.

As someone who operates with the un-baited hook I've seen my notch counts rise in a matter of weeks in certain places, more than it rises in 6 months in Sydney and with less expense, frustration and luck involved.

I think the fishing analogy captures it perfectly.

If you transplant yourself to a city or country where everything is in your favour, as long as you're not a loser and have a basic idea about game (frame, masculinity, having the guts to approach and close, logistics) you'll do well. This is the un-baited hook and certainly doesn't mean being beta or clueless it just requires some basic principles.

Otherwise you'll be pulling out the expensive lure. You've gotta use tools and tricks to turn the stakes in your favour. Whether it be:

- college game, whether being in a campus club or frat or just using heavy day game on a campus
- millionaire game (to extent described by Zelcorpion)
- money game, e.g. central apartment, expensive cars, clothes
- fame game, whether it be widely known celebrity or even lesser known figures in smaller circles
- mass approaching
- appearance game e.g. a god like physique built with gym, test and tren such as what zyzz used
- job game, being in a job that gives you exposure to girls and/or status e.g. promoting like McQueen, also hospitality and tourism jobs.


My long term goal is to make a good income wih IM and move permanently to a better environment, but in the mean time I'm going to ditch my current job that gives no social interaction and seek for myself a job working in a university where I'll have hot students and young colleagues around me every day. A sort of mixed college and job game that won't leave me relying on lucky approaches after work and lucky ONSs in clubs.

To those in a shitty environment, what is your expensive lure that brings you a flow notches ??

[RockHard]

Great point. Extreme examples in the US would be Alaska or the Dakotas, or the mountain towns in Colorado during the off season.

There are lots of outdoorsy places where the M/F ratio is skewed. Being some kind of tour guide (rafting guide, fishing guide, or off road / ATV tours are examples) would be great. Women that are in the mountains are much more likely to do an organized event. Where guys would throw the ATVs on the trailer and go ride, girls won't do that - they'll either join a group of guy friends or they'll book a guided tour.

[Brodiaga]

I've been to Bangkok and Phuket and agree 100%. However, Phuket is still many times easier than the US when it comes to picking up girls.

[Parlay44]

I think the media and internet has made the world a smaller place and women think they are more valuable than they actually are in their small local market. The ratios don't even matter anymore. We're in a pussy inflation bubble. I'm just waiting for it to pop.

[Brodiaga]

(07-26-2014 01:59 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

I think the media and internet has made the world a smaller place and women think they are more valuable than they actually are in their small local market. The ratios don't even matter anymore. We're in a pussy inflation bubble. I'm just waiting for it to pop.

It takes just one short trip to Asia to realize that location matters a lot even though everybody uses the internet and the same or similar social networks and dating apps all over the world.

If I had to guess how much easier it is to get laid in Asia, I would say the difference between a Western country and a South East Asian country could be as high as 10X or even more.

[Distant Light]

Agreed...Location = Logistics...They both go hand in hand...

A guy living in vegas who has a hard time getting into the good clubs vs a guy in san francisco going to very artsy parties will have 2 different experiences about their region...

This reminds me of my boy in Odessa who mentioned the club he was at had TONS OF MODELS. There is only 1 place in NY that could be consistently similar. It is rare, to find an environment like that outside of very select few cities and venues.

Another things about location, I've never had a favorable place to bring women back home. With the exception of public sex and bringing 2 women to my house...I ALWAYS GO TO THEIR PLACE...If I were to have a better location, I would basically be "locking-in" days for women to come over.

P.S...At my peak when I was going out alot, I was leaving with a chick EVERY NIGHT but sometimes it just wasn't possible to go home with the chick.

[soup]

(07-26-2014 10:04 PM)Distant Light Wrote:  

Agreed...Location = Logistics...They both go hand in hand...

A guy living in vegas who has a hard time getting into the good clubs vs a guy in san francisco going to very artsy parties will have 2 different experiences about their region...

This reminds me of my boy in Odessa who mentioned the club he was at had TONS OF MODELS. There is only 1 place in NY that could be consistently similar. It is rare, to find an environment like that outside of very select few cities and venues.

Another things about location, I've never had a favorable place to bring women back home. With the exception of public sex and bringing 2 women to my house...I ALWAYS GO TO THEIR PLACE...If I were to have a better location, I would basically be "locking-in" days for women to come over.

P.S...At my peak when I was going out alot, I was leaving with a chick EVERY NIGHT but sometimes it just wasn't possible to go home with the chick.

Which place in NYC?

[GauchoNomade]

Agree with the OP

Travelling to SEA (will be based in SG) this winter to have my "real" first Asian experience

I like EE women (Russian +++ and Polish ++) very much, I would like a place in SEA were EE women are also plentiful

Thailand
Philipines
Laos
Myanmar
Taiwan

I will spend 4 months there

ps: Spain is a dumpwhole for women

[Suits]

I've lived a lot of places in the last ten years and definitely agree with this assessment.

I have gotten to the point where I can barely even be bothered trying to meet women during a six month stretch in the USA, as I'm well aware that as soon as I'm in a better location, my efforts will be rewards 3X.

Some of this comes down to not just the facts of the location, but also the personality of the man involved.

I do very well in Hong Kong, much better than anywhere in the world, because I seem to vibe very well with the women there, but other guys claim better luck else where.

[Travesty]

Agreed no contest location is the #1 concern, hence Roosh's travels.

No point in mining for a gold in a place that doesn't have any no matter how good your mining skills are.

Someone that doesn't post much posted a quote I found very interesting something like:

"I lost all the romantic notions I had towards game when I found it comes down to logistics and a numbers game."

Those 2 elements are not 100% of game success of course, but boy do they make a majority chunk of it up.

[Nomad77]

It's not that men in America don't know this. It's that, for many, they are unable to do anything about it by moving out of the country. I know Miami is one of the worst cities in the US for me but I have to remain here because I built a business here - at least for now. A lot of men are in this same position because of their jobs.

[Sebastian]

People want to live around people in the same league or people they want to be associated with.

For example, just driving few miles (even few blocks) from high prime area, the housing cost can drop drastically. Dont people know about it? Why people want to stay there even though they can barely afford it?
It sounds really nice if you sell that nothing special average house in cali, you can get a mansion by the beach with driver and a maid in a third world country. But what about people?
Would they like the idea of mingling with third world country people?

Heck, there are two bars right next to each other in my town. One charges alot and the other one is cheap.
first one has lots of hot hipster girls. Second bar has trashy crowd. Oh they have the same rum and coke, just different price. How many guys care about the price and will go to this trashy place unless they are one of them?

[SydneyD]

This reminds me of George Orwell's Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

In this case: "All locations have Abundance, but some locations are more abundant than others"

[RexImperator]

OP's title is basically the conclusion I've come to, and that I would benefit far more from focusing my efforts on improving my economic situation and changing my location than worrying about "game".

Also, here's a very nerdy way to think about it...in physics there's something called the mean free time between collisions which affects the rate of chemical reactions. It is basically a function of the density of a liquid or gas. If you are living in a poosy desert such as a rural or suburban area it's like being in a low density gaseous state, or even worse, a plasma in outer space. If you want to improve your game, it is just going to take you forever frankly there because there are just not enough available girls around to interact with. And the likelihood is you will have too much thirst because available girls are so rare. Therefore, move yourself to a "liquid phase", i.e. an urban environment.

[coverdoc]

(12-13-2014 01:23 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

OP's title is basically the conclusion I've come to, and that I would benefit far more from focusing my efforts on improving my economic situation and changing my location than worrying about "game".

Also, here's a very nerdy way to think about it...in physics there's something called the mean free time between collisions which affects the rate of chemical reactions. It is basically a function of the density of a liquid or gas. If you are living in a poosy desert such as a rural or suburban area it's like being in a low density gaseous state, or even worse, a plasma in outer space. If you want to improve your game, it is just going to take you forever frankly there because there are just not enough available girls around to interact with. And the likelihood is you will have too much thirst because available girls are so rare. Therefore, move yourself to a "liquid phase", i.e. an urban environment.

Good sh** bro. I always like when dudes relate game to science.

[Ice]

Hey Vincent,

I have a question about BKK that is a bit tangential to you post, but maybe you could briefly answer it nevertheless:

You said that it's very easy to meet girls in BBK online and also during the day, but I have also heard from people that Thai girls are actually quite weary about foreigners in general. I have been told that online you will meet mostly girls from poorer backgrounds who do want to meet westeners for the $$ and the lifestyle, but if you approach good looking girls in malls - who are often from better-off backgrounds - they will reject you most of the time. Simply because for these girls Thai guys (from better-off backgrounds) are a more appealing option.

I'm not necessarily only talking about "hi-so" girls, but generally about good looking girls that you might see in a random mall. From what I have been told, it's actually only a rather small subset of Thai girls who are into guys from the West.

What is your experience in this regard?

[poledaddy]

Awesome analysis. I must say there is a certain kind of anti-location independence narrative that gets pushed from time to time on RVF and elsewhere in the manosphere. Guys that passively-aggressively insinuate anyone who points out what Vincent just did, is a "complaining broke loser". I always find this odd because it basically goes against the thesis of what much of Roosh's work is all about. If you are so successful yourself do you even care if some guys are looking to try to get out of the USA, Canada, Austraila? Why are trying to stop guys from talking about this, especially on a forum owned by a guy who is all about location independence and travel. The fact is pain is often a more powerful motivator than pleasure. If a guy uses his unhappiness with the US as part of his motivation to build up his online business, why are you so emotionally vested in stopping him? What does that say about you?

When you've climbed tooth and nail up a career that keeps you tied to the USA, for some guys that have fragile egos, it's a major blow to to see other guys bypassing that grind altogether, living happier on 50K location-independent in Thailand or Ukraine than they are making 200K in DC (note-i don't want to get hung up on specific numbers/COL, just illustrating the concept). It drives them nuts because they've worked so hard to get where they are - they want to feel like they "won the game" as their ego is so vested in that. So they resort to attacking. I honestly wish this would be added as a new type of trolling to the official troll-types list - "America is still great, so stop complaining, loser" trolling.

[Roardog]

Location > Logistics > Genetics > Game.

That's the order of importance I see it in.
Like has been said, if you live in a Poon Desert, it's going to be very hard to find water no matter how many tools you have or how good your water divining skills are.
If you have bad logistics like living at home with your parents or a long way from where you're gaming then it's going to be a big impediment to getting bangs, even if you're hooking up at bars/clubs.
If you're naturally tall and good looking you'll have an easier time. The opposite if you're short (this one kills me the most as a short guy, so many girls are just inaccessible) or unattractive.
Lastly comes Game.

[Que enspastic]

It makes a big difference in a city like London. To live near the clubs in Mayfair, Soho, Angel or Shoreditch you need to pay a huge amount in rent, for a dog box in a share house probably around £700 min.

To rent a nice pad with just you and a mate you will be spending closer to £1200+ per month.

Logistics require money.

[speakeasy]

Whoa... what happened to Nomad77?? He's was always a solid poster. Enjoyed many of his posts.

[rudebwoy]

What if you don't have the location or logistics?
If you have game then you can handle any situation. For example I remember my mates cousin came from South Africa, the dude was picking up girls inside a girls washroom in a nightclub. Granted he was killing them with the accent and he wasn't a bad looking guy, which would sort of falls under genetics.
As Que Enspastic said in London you are looking at big money for a centrally located pad, in Toronto it is the same thing. Sure it makes it easier if you are 5 minutes from a club, but who can afford that.
Many guys on here talk about high-end cars, but I have had hot chicks ready to get freaky in a jalopy car.

[civpro]

(12-15-2014 09:24 PM)Roardog Wrote:  

Location > Logistics > Genetics > Game.

Interesting opinion and interesting thread overall. Based on my personal experiences however I would rank Logistics lower, so Location > Genetics > Game > Logistics.

Perhaps in a European city where girls are more curious, more adventurous, more trusting, more unfulfilled with their local men, have lower standards, are hotter by default, and are "lazy sluts" deep down... having a centrally located apartment can be the material difference for the average love tourist in exploiting fast sex and being a sexually satisfied player.

But in a competitive North American city the fact that you have a condo in the club district is irrelevant if the girl thinks you're ugly. So you're in walking distance, so what? You're not gonna change that hot girl's mind. You didn't meet her threshold so she doesn't care. And even if you did, sex doesn't come easy anyway.

This is why the backseat of my good looking friend's Honda saw more action this year than my $1300/mo. downtown bachelor pad. He's a hot guy and that's what these girls want and they'll put up with whatever to get it. A nicely located apartment owned by an average/ugly guy will at best push up the bang speed on the average/ugly/fat girls he picks up by a meeting or two, that's it. It will not create much in the way of new opportunities. And so that is why I think Genetics and Game rank higher than Logistics.

[LouEvilSlugger]

Ressources, which includes logistics and location, trumps all. I know a couple of okay-looking guys in Montreal and NY with no or minimal game that regurlarly swoop hot girls. Some of them are club promoters, hosts or DJ's or are simply trustfund kids with upscale lofts in prime locations. It might sound like an efficient strategy if you run passive game, but it seems to be only working on a particular niche market (hipster chicks).